I really don't understand why so many people are calling almost all the neutral commons in MSoG filler. A filler card is a card with no purpose in any format and is just there to be there and absolutely nothing else. They don't even have the potential to be joke cards like Backstreet Leper who's main purpose is to poke fun at the fact that pre-patch Leper Gnome was so unbalanced. They also don't provide anything to arena, like how Toxic Sewer Ooze provides all classes with more consistent weapon removal, even if it isn't top tier. The only cards so far this expansion that I would consider to be true filler cards would be Grook Fu Master and probably Gadgetzan Ferryman. Grook Fu Master is just another poorly stated windfury creature like Thrallmar Farseer and Windfury Harpy, and Gadgetzan Ferryman is literally a slightly different Youthful Brewmaster that doesn't even provide any realistically useful advantages for it being a class card and that's without even mentioning that they both take up the same spot on the curve. I don't even see Hired Gun as a filler card, because it provides arena with more decent 3-drops. That's why when I see people call Daring Reporter a balanced filler card I just feel like people expect Blizzard to make only super flashy cards like Kazakus, which is very unrealistic.
I just feel like Gadgetzan Ferryman doesn't accomplish anything new, add something to arena, or even teach newer players a lesson about the game. Even Magma Rager teaches new players that playing a card fully invested in the attack stat without any other advantages like divine shield or stealth isn't very powerful, much for the same reason why Worgen Greaser is very unlikely to be a good card.
I love this thread. It's one of my pet peeves when overly negative people criticize Blizzard for not printing a new Piloted Shredder 132 times every expansion. There will always be cards that aren't particularly fun or exciting, but still add something to the game (See: Evil Heckler).
It's different in Adventures, though. Crap like Pompous Thespian is fun and should be in the game, but when there are only 40 cards in a set it's definitely a waste. A vanilla 3/2 with Taunt, while good, is horribly boring compared to sets like Naxx, in which every card in the set was at least NEW, if not GOOD. Stoneskin Gargoyle is trash and hasn't seen any play in years, but it's a new concept and it does something fitting it being 1/32 in a set. The addition of cards that are horribly boring like the Thespian are why people really felt let down by Karazhan. In an expansion with 134 cards in MSG, though, we can afford to have cards like Hired Gun that don't really do anything new.
I love this thread. It's one of my pet peeves when overly negative people criticize Blizzard for not printing a new Piloted Shredder 132 times every expansion. There will always be cards that aren't particularly fun or exciting, but still add something to the game (See: Evil Heckler).
It's different in Adventures, though. Crap like Pompous Thespian is fun and should be in the game, but when there are only 40 cards in a set it's definitely a waste. A vanilla 3/2 with Taunt, while good, is horribly boring compared to sets like Naxx, in which every card in the set was at least NEW, if not GOOD. Stoneskin Gargoyle is trash and hasn't seen any play in years, but it's a new concept and it does something fitting it being 1/32 in a set. The addition of cards that are horribly boring like the Thespian are why people really felt let down by Karazhan. In an expansion with 134 cards in MSG, though, we can afford to have cards like Hired Gun that don't really do anything new.
Also notice that these are all Common cards. Commons aren't supposed to be Kazakus-level crazy and unique. This does make Gadgetzan Ferryman more unforgivable, but still explains why sets will have like 40 cards that aren't game breaking.
Thanks! Personally I don't even see Pompous Thespian as a filler card, much for the same reason as for why I don't think Hired Gun is a filler card, but I do consider these to be two "boring" cards. By boring I don't mean that the card has no purpose in the game, but it doesn't explore any new or under-explored concepts of the game. I feel that some boring cards are necessary to teach newer players and for other things that the game needs like arena balance, but they belong in large expansions and not adventures like Karazhan. And I agree, even a card as underpowered as Stoneskin Gargoyle has a place in Hearthstone and I don't mind such an underpowered card in an adventure, but mainly because it explores a new concept and it isn't what I would consider a "boring" card.
I even like Grook Fu Master. It could possibly work in Goons decks, not to mention that its the first true Windfury minion we've seen since WOG. Even if I don't like a card because I think its bland or just plain bad, I still try all of them because you never really know until you KNOW.
A filler card is a card with no purpose in any format and is just there to be there and absolutely nothing else.
Actually nothing is there just to be there, even if filler cards are less impactful than the other cards they have two essential goals.
First and foremost they are test area for different kind of stats, Grook Fu Master is the one of the two 3/5 Windfury of the game, the other one being Al'Akir the Windlord , making such a card like this is very useful to test its impact to the game, the same went for Raging Worgen , it was meant as a filler card in order to test how would behave such a combination of stats, and it ended up being too strong and causing Charge's nerf.
Secondly they are meant to balance the overall power of the cards, either for the discover mechanic or the arena, by making weaker cards it balances all the other interactions.
For paper I would have added it is meant to sell more boosters but with the dust system it is not relevant, you get a bunch of shitty cards, you dust them and craft one you need, in paper fillers are booster sellers.
That said, for Gadgetzan Ferryman it is like you said NOT a filler card, mainly because it's not a common (it may seem anecdotic but filler cards need to be common), people often confuse filler and shitty when talking about cards.
Ferryman make muse it is probably the laziest design ever (change two keywords and switch attack and health) but it's not a filler, it is here to offer something the design team thought about :
Either they are thinking about a cool bouncing theme for a rogue deck to come in this extension (or the next one), and they added this card to make their deck viable ... or they only want to give the class some other ways to have access to what is a rogue signature mechanic Shadowstep , Shadowcaster , Sap and Bloodthistle Toxin do the same thing, in an other world, Youthful Brewmaster would have been a rogue card, they are correcting this with Gadgetzan Ferryman.
EDIT : ... OR they are hiding a card that reduces all combo cards by 1 or making combo trigger twice, a pseudo Bran for combo, in which case it would be a good design, otherwise it is still lazy and uninspired IMHO
That is actually very true about Grook Fu Master, I also feel that Blizzard really wants to make sure they explore many stat combinations at different mana costs to learn more about what stat combinations are appropriate with different effects, such as charge or windfury, in order to prevent more cards like Raging Worgen from being too strong or too powerful when combined with other cards, like Charge. Also I agree with you that Blizzard wants to give Rogue more definitive identities besides having strong single-target damage cards like Eviscerate or being "thiefs" with Burgle and Undercity Huckster, so they're adding on to the "bounce back" theme with Gadgetzan Ferryman. However I do feel like if they want to promote an identity or theme within a class with the intent of this theme being fairly represented on the ladder, they need to make cards like Undercity Huckster that are viable in standard, so that there is a motive to make use of the given theme.
I even like Grook Fu Master. It could possibly work in Goons decks, not to mention that its the first true Windfury minion we've seen since WOG. Even if I don't like a card because I think its bland or just plain bad, I still try all of them because you never really know until you KNOW.
I actually didn't even think about the synergy with the Grimy Goons cards, I can see that being better on a windfury minion like Grook Fu Master than Windfury Harpy because of its mana cost and how it only loses 1 attack for 1 mana. Also I can see the hand-buff cards being better on this card than an even cheaper windfury minion like Thrallmar Farseer because you would want to play more hand-buffs before you play the minion. But like you said you never know a card's viability until you get to experiment with it yourself.
I feel like some people in this thread need to explain their definition of filler cards. I thought the definition was something like: a card that sees no actual play by players with somewhat reasonable collections and knowledge of the game, outside of random effects, arena and some tavern brawls.
I wouldn't call a filler card that. I would personally call a filler card a card with absolutely no purpose in any format at all. It's a card with no purpose in constructed (not a card that doesn't see play, a card that cannot shine in any sort of deck at all. For example, Stoneskin Gargoyle is a clearly bad card, but with certain cards like buffs it can be better and have a purpose to a deck), no purpose in arena, and generally has no reason to exist. I would call Gadgetzan Ferryman a filler card because there is almost no reason to play it over a card that already exists, being Youthful Brewmaster. They both do the exact same thing at the same amount of mana, they just have very slightly different stats and one requires a card to be played before, so yes the card can be slightly better in extremely few situations, but generally they both accomplish the same thing.
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I really don't understand why so many people are calling almost all the neutral commons in MSoG filler. A filler card is a card with no purpose in any format and is just there to be there and absolutely nothing else. They don't even have the potential to be joke cards like Backstreet Leper who's main purpose is to poke fun at the fact that pre-patch Leper Gnome was so unbalanced. They also don't provide anything to arena, like how Toxic Sewer Ooze provides all classes with more consistent weapon removal, even if it isn't top tier. The only cards so far this expansion that I would consider to be true filler cards would be Grook Fu Master and probably Gadgetzan Ferryman. Grook Fu Master is just another poorly stated windfury creature like Thrallmar Farseer and Windfury Harpy, and Gadgetzan Ferryman is literally a slightly different Youthful Brewmaster that doesn't even provide any realistically useful advantages for it being a class card and that's without even mentioning that they both take up the same spot on the curve. I don't even see Hired Gun as a filler card, because it provides arena with more decent 3-drops. That's why when I see people call Daring Reporter a balanced filler card I just feel like people expect Blizzard to make only super flashy cards like Kazakus, which is very unrealistic.
I feel like Gadgetzan Ferryman doesn't get enough love. If anything, Rogue is the only class it COULD see play in.
I just feel like Gadgetzan Ferryman doesn't accomplish anything new, add something to arena, or even teach newer players a lesson about the game. Even Magma Rager teaches new players that playing a card fully invested in the attack stat without any other advantages like divine shield or stealth isn't very powerful, much for the same reason why Worgen Greaser is very unlikely to be a good card.
I love this thread. It's one of my pet peeves when overly negative people criticize Blizzard for not printing a new Piloted Shredder 132 times every expansion. There will always be cards that aren't particularly fun or exciting, but still add something to the game (See: Evil Heckler).
It's different in Adventures, though. Crap like Pompous Thespian is fun and should be in the game, but when there are only 40 cards in a set it's definitely a waste. A vanilla 3/2 with Taunt, while good, is horribly boring compared to sets like Naxx, in which every card in the set was at least NEW, if not GOOD. Stoneskin Gargoyle is trash and hasn't seen any play in years, but it's a new concept and it does something fitting it being 1/32 in a set. The addition of cards that are horribly boring like the Thespian are why people really felt let down by Karazhan. In an expansion with 134 cards in MSG, though, we can afford to have cards like Hired Gun that don't really do anything new.
Thanks! Personally I don't even see Pompous Thespian as a filler card, much for the same reason as for why I don't think Hired Gun is a filler card, but I do consider these to be two "boring" cards. By boring I don't mean that the card has no purpose in the game, but it doesn't explore any new or under-explored concepts of the game. I feel that some boring cards are necessary to teach newer players and for other things that the game needs like arena balance, but they belong in large expansions and not adventures like Karazhan. And I agree, even a card as underpowered as Stoneskin Gargoyle has a place in Hearthstone and I don't mind such an underpowered card in an adventure, but mainly because it explores a new concept and it isn't what I would consider a "boring" card.
I even like Grook Fu Master. It could possibly work in Goons decks, not to mention that its the first true Windfury minion we've seen since WOG. Even if I don't like a card because I think its bland or just plain bad, I still try all of them because you never really know until you KNOW.
I feel like some people in this thread need to explain their definition of filler cards. I thought the definition was something like: a card that sees no actual play by players with somewhat reasonable collections and knowledge of the game, outside of random effects, arena and some tavern brawls.
I wouldn't call a filler card that. I would personally call a filler card a card with absolutely no purpose in any format at all. It's a card with no purpose in constructed (not a card that doesn't see play, a card that cannot shine in any sort of deck at all. For example, Stoneskin Gargoyle is a clearly bad card, but with certain cards like buffs it can be better and have a purpose to a deck), no purpose in arena, and generally has no reason to exist. I would call Gadgetzan Ferryman a filler card because there is almost no reason to play it over a card that already exists, being Youthful Brewmaster. They both do the exact same thing at the same amount of mana, they just have very slightly different stats and one requires a card to be played before, so yes the card can be slightly better in extremely few situations, but generally they both accomplish the same thing.