I can list all the spell interactions in under five minutes. Things that interact with minions will usually interact in the same way with spells that produce minions (deal X damage, transform effects, etc.). The only things that interact with exclusively minions are Mana Wraith, Nerub'ar Weblord and Venture Co. Mercenary. In constructed, with the example of Dopplegangster and Force of Nature, they're close enough to be the same.
And I'm not saying that Class cards should always be better than neutral cards, and higher rarities should always be better than lower ones. I'm saying that Class cards should never be worse in almost all cases than Neutral ones. After all, there's a reason they're restricted to one class.
And I'm perfectly fine with bad cards of high rarities. Bolvar Fordragon was my first golden legendary, so he'll always have a place in my heart (even though I dusted him).
The only thing that interacts with only minions is 3 cards? What? You might want to change that.....
And also class cards can be worse than neutrals, that's fine. There is no reason that would be an issue unless the neutral gets to a point where it dominates the meta.
So the Gadgetzan expansion is coming out soon, and even though it will only be standard for a bit over a year, I still have quite a bit to say about it.
First off, what's with the power creep again? I thought the reasoning behind standard was so that we wouldn't have to deal with the crap in GVG forever. This is the second expansion and the third card set since standard and I'm already seeing GVG 2. Compare Dopplegangster to Force of Nature. Compare Pint-Size Potion to Shrinkmeister. Compare Mistress of Mixtures to Refreshment Vendor. Also for those who are looking at Grook Fu Master, GVG has its fair share of Flying Machines, but that's beside the point. The point is, the next expansion will have to be even more powerful or it'll be TGT 2.
The worst part of this is the Jade Golems. As we've seen in the Siege on Stormwind Brawl, the only thing that can hold back a constant stream of growing minions is Kel'Thuzad with a gang of taunts. This basically means that control instantly loses against Jade Golem decks unless they can find a way to duplicate their removal endlessly. The only way to beat the Green Gang is to rush them down, which is not entirely fun if that's not your playstyle.
Furthermore, control has never dominated the meta since the release of Naxxramas. The only thing that comes close is C'Thun, and it's debatable weather or not that's classified as control. This expansion so far, they're basically giving aggro and midrange a bunch of new, fun toys and giving control Bomb Squad. This is not a fresh meta, this is getting slightly different cards in a stale meta.
But no matter how much I write, MSG will still come out sooner or later. For now, all I can hope is some actual fun and interesting cards in the card dump that can compete with what we're getting now.
So many wrong things said in one post.
- Dopplegangster is almost assuredly going to be used in Evolve decks, because it's going to summon 2 5 mana copies of it. Force of Nature has not been played as much since it was nerfed to oblivion.
- Mistress of Mixtures compared to Refreshment Vendor is an extremely weak comparison. Refreshment Vendor has an unavoidable Battlecry that comes in a reliable 3/5 body that easily recoups what the Battlecry does. Mistress of Mixtures has a Deathrattle that can be avoided by not killing the damn thing or giving it the Silence treatment. Not to mention just about every single damage spell in the game kills it.
- Bomb Squad will only be used as dusting material, just like Millhouse Manastorm. I could only see that being used in Evolve decks to avoid the Deathrattle or by Rogues. Oh wait, Rogues have better removal with bouncing Moat Lurker back to their hand. Who in their right mind would play Bomb Squad?
You're doing nothing but comparing apples to carrots here, mate.
Addressing things one by one:
A neutral rare should not be better than a class epic. It doesn't matter if it'll be ran in different decks, Dopplegangster just makes it so if Druids ever found a reason to run Force of Nature again, they would just run Dopplegangster.
When was the last game that you had a 1-drop not die? Refreshment Vendor cost 3 more mana and trades with only one extra card in most cases. And when was the last time you saw silence in constructed? The way I see it, the deathrattle is just as reliable as the battlecry, just not instantaneous.
The Priest clears only work up to the 5/5 Jade Golems. Considering they made art for 20+/20+ Golems, that's not going to get you very far. Besides, you're not going to see anyone but a Warrior leave a 7/7 on the board for more than a turn in hopes of getting more value off a board clear. And have you seen the Jade Idol yet?
And yes, Bomb Squad is bad. I'm not denying that it's bad. Only a Warrior would be willing to take 5 damage like that. I'm only using it as an example of the "control" cards that we're getting.
Ah, even more wrong things in 1 post.
- Dopplegangster is better than Force of Nature now, but not the old Force of Nature that was nerfed to oblivion. The high mana cost for Dopplegangster SCREAMS Evolve Shaman.
- Not everyone is going to be running Kabal in Priest. Control Priest and Dragon Priest are still a thing. The release of Pint-Size Potion means that Priests can counter zoo decks a lot easier, and they have a two card combo that can wipe out almost everything in all zoo decks. Pint-Size Potion was more than likely made to help Shadow Word: Horror be more useful. I can see it actually replacing Holy Nova (which is another two-of) because it removes minions better than Holy Nova can. I deliberately left out the Priest minions that TARGET minions, because the whole point of the damn card is to help act as a board clear. I played when Shrinkmeister was still in Standard, and Shrinkmeister was used to deal with a 4 attack minion, either by killing it with Shadow Word Pain or stealing it with Shadow Madness or Cabal Shadow Priest. That, or to establish early game board status.
- Mistress of Mixtures is a shit card. I can see Backstreet Leper seeing much more play than this piece of crap. It has the same weaknesses that Zombie Chow had... as a matter of fact, it's a shittier Zombie chow because it dies to practically ANYTHING and you have to time when you play the Mistress right, because the Deathrattle will be triggered so you won't get any benefit off of it. Oh, and don't give me any bullshit of Auchenai Soulpriest making it useful, because with that card being used, it also damages YOU. Just what a Priest players need, dealing 4 damage to themselves when health is at a premium.
- For Jade Golems to get to 5/5, it means that Druids, Rogues and Shamans have to sacrifice early board presence. With Midrange Shaman, early board presence is CRITICAL, and they need all the Face Damage they need, which means they sacrifice cards like Tunnel Trogg, Totem Golem, Feral Spirit, Mana Tide Totem, Flametongue Totem, Thing from Below... most of those two-ofs. You think Shamans will willingly give up that much early game? Even if the Trogg and Golem rotate out, there is going to be some strong 2 or 3 mana minion that will take their place in either Gadgetzan, the next adventure, or the next expansion
Rogues lack the board clear needed to establish any of their stronger decks, and their strongest is Miracle Rogue.
Druid decks basically use a C'thun format or a Yogg Ramp format with their stronger decks.
I have seen Jade Golems, and I highly doubt that ANYTHING outside of Rogue will be able to churn out anything higher than a 7/7. Control decks would easily squash them. And as I told you, Pint-Size Potion and Shadow Word Horror is going to have two-ofs in each Priest deck outside Kabal, so Priests should have no problem keeping Jade Golem decks in check.
So the Gadgetzan expansion is coming out soon, and even though it will only be standard for a bit over a year, I still have quite a bit to say about it.
First off, what's with the power creep again? I thought the reasoning behind standard was so that we wouldn't have to deal with the crap in GVG forever. This is the second expansion and the third card set since standard and I'm already seeing GVG 2. Compare Dopplegangster to Force of Nature. Compare Pint-Size Potion to Shrinkmeister. Compare Mistress of Mixtures to Refreshment Vendor. Also for those who are looking at Grook Fu Master, GVG has its fair share of Flying Machines, but that's beside the point. The point is, the next expansion will have to be even more powerful or it'll be TGT 2.
The worst part of this is the Jade Golems. As we've seen in the Siege on Stormwind Brawl, the only thing that can hold back a constant stream of growing minions is Kel'Thuzad with a gang of taunts. This basically means that control instantly loses against Jade Golem decks unless they can find a way to duplicate their removal endlessly. The only way to beat the Green Gang is to rush them down, which is not entirely fun if that's not your playstyle.
Furthermore, control has never dominated the meta since the release of Naxxramas. The only thing that comes close is C'Thun, and it's debatable weather or not that's classified as control. This expansion so far, they're basically giving aggro and midrange a bunch of new, fun toys and giving control Bomb Squad. This is not a fresh meta, this is getting slightly different cards in a stale meta.
But no matter how much I write, MSG will still come out sooner or later. For now, all I can hope is some actual fun and interesting cards in the card dump that can compete with what we're getting now.
So many wrong things said in one post.
- Dopplegangster is almost assuredly going to be used in Evolve decks, because it's going to summon 2 5 mana copies of it. Force of Nature has not been played as much since it was nerfed to oblivion.
- Mistress of Mixtures compared to Refreshment Vendor is an extremely weak comparison. Refreshment Vendor has an unavoidable Battlecry that comes in a reliable 3/5 body that easily recoups what the Battlecry does. Mistress of Mixtures has a Deathrattle that can be avoided by not killing the damn thing or giving it the Silence treatment. Not to mention just about every single damage spell in the game kills it.
- Bomb Squad will only be used as dusting material, just like Millhouse Manastorm. I could only see that being used in Evolve decks to avoid the Deathrattle or by Rogues. Oh wait, Rogues have better removal with bouncing Moat Lurker back to their hand. Who in their right mind would play Bomb Squad?
You're doing nothing but comparing apples to carrots here, mate.
The first thing you "corrected" is the the exact point the op is making.
Auchenai + circle is better than the trash shadow word concede combo you mentioned.
And how exactly are you going to beat more than 2 boards of jade golem tokens with the solutions you mentioned?
How so? So far Jade Golem looks powerful, but it's slow. Obviously we've yet to see Shaman's contribution to it other than the one spell they revealed, but for Druid and Rogue not only are they slow buildups but they're classes that don't handle wide boards very well... which means I imagine Goons will do well against them since they can pressure before you see Golems that are going to trouble you. It's not even a rush strategy, it's that with decks having that long of a clock and no way to adequately answer your board you're going to get murdered from sustained pressure. It's pretty similar to C'thun, and as you can tell there are viable C'thun decks but they haven't been oppressive.
In regards to the OP, I don't think any of those are power creep. Dopplegangsters is maybe the only exception since it's a neutral that's arguably better than the spell counterpart (and I stress ARGUABLY), but c'est la vie for the evergreen cards; they're not always going to be as powerful as the cards that are getting rotated. Everything else you listed is not something I'd consider powercreep because they're not replacing any of those cards; I'd be genuinely curious what other examples you're seeing because we're still operating well underneath the power level of Naxx/GvG based on the fact I don't feel like I'd be rushing to replace anything in a top tier Wild deck with what they've spoiled.
In regards to Jade Golem, see the first part of my post. In regards to Control not dominating the meta... wah? Control has had multiple instances of tier 1/2 decks for almost the entirety of the lifetime of this game, with the top deck being suitably countered by two of them. It's not a reflection of viability, it's that people don't enjoy long sessions of Control en masse; this is not a freak occurrence, no more than people dislike playing support roles in most games. However considering Reno is getting a major boost of support, there's even less to complain about... literally 1/3rd of the classes are having an already viable archetype pushed a little harder with heavy control elements. Control players are not a victim in this set, they're one of the stars.
jade archetype is going to rape control .. nzoth decks can do it but playng it fast(in wild). Gvg gave us must have op minions like shredder or boom but the problem is that msg wil improve as fuck jade archetype over everything.... ok is slow but think about it .. after turn 4-5:you can only gain tempo from your cards.. its just a question of time .. if you dont play aggro u re fucked up... but yeah control got some good tools too .. its like a roulette if i play control i best aggro but i lose to jade..
So the Gadgetzan expansion is coming out soon, and even though it will only be standard for a bit over a year, I still have quite a bit to say about it.
First off, what's with the power creep again? I thought the reasoning behind standard was so that we wouldn't have to deal with the crap in GVG forever. This is the second expansion and the third card set since standard and I'm already seeing GVG 2. Compare Dopplegangster to Force of Nature. Compare Pint-Size Potion to Shrinkmeister. Compare Mistress of Mixtures to Refreshment Vendor. Also for those who are looking at Grook Fu Master, GVG has its fair share of Flying Machines, but that's beside the point. The point is, the next expansion will have to be even more powerful or it'll be TGT 2.
The worst part of this is the Jade Golems. As we've seen in the Siege on Stormwind Brawl, the only thing that can hold back a constant stream of growing minions is Kel'Thuzad with a gang of taunts. This basically means that control instantly loses against Jade Golem decks unless they can find a way to duplicate their removal endlessly. The only way to beat the Green Gang is to rush them down, which is not entirely fun if that's not your playstyle.
Furthermore, control has never dominated the meta since the release of Naxxramas. The only thing that comes close is C'Thun, and it's debatable weather or not that's classified as control. This expansion so far, they're basically giving aggro and midrange a bunch of new, fun toys and giving control Bomb Squad. This is not a fresh meta, this is getting slightly different cards in a stale meta.
But no matter how much I write, MSG will still come out sooner or later. For now, all I can hope is some actual fun and interesting cards in the card dump that can compete with what we're getting now.
So many wrong things said in one post.
- Dopplegangster is almost assuredly going to be used in Evolve decks, because it's going to summon 2 5 mana copies of it. Force of Nature has not been played as much since it was nerfed to oblivion.
- Mistress of Mixtures compared to Refreshment Vendor is an extremely weak comparison. Refreshment Vendor has an unavoidable Battlecry that comes in a reliable 3/5 body that easily recoups what the Battlecry does. Mistress of Mixtures has a Deathrattle that can be avoided by not killing the damn thing or giving it the Silence treatment. Not to mention just about every single damage spell in the game kills it.
- Bomb Squad will only be used as dusting material, just like Millhouse Manastorm. I could only see that being used in Evolve decks to avoid the Deathrattle or by Rogues. Oh wait, Rogues have better removal with bouncing Moat Lurker back to their hand. Who in their right mind would play Bomb Squad?
You're doing nothing but comparing apples to carrots here, mate.
The first thing you "corrected" is the the exact point the op is making.
Auchenai + circle is better than the trash shadow word concede combo you mentioned.
And how exactly are you going to beat more than 2 boards of jade golem tokens with the solutions you mentioned?
How does one beat Jade Golem decks with more than 2 board wipes?
Simple, Jade Golem decks are like Valve. They don't know how to count to 3.
I have a feeling that jade golem decks are more mid-range/control instead of aggro. The mechanic is slow but can basically grind any other deck out(at least the druid variant).
I am afraid that people will just lock out their best face decks and destroy these decks by turn 6 or 7.
Ugh... I tried to stop myself from replying to threads like this, but I'm just gonna take this opportunity to say some things I've had on my chest for a while now because I always see people complain about the same thing on this forum.
"Furthermore, control has never dominated the meta since the release of Naxxramas."
No, but in all seriousness, who wants one archetype to dominate the meta anyway? What I've seen so far from this expansion is a clear cut rock-paper-scissor system, and that's the way any card game meta should be. If there's one dominant deck, a counter will appear and become the new popular deck until another counter emerges. Such is the healthy progression of a competitive card game. Jade Golems get overrun by aggressive decks, aggressive decks are kept in check by efficient control tools, and control is being outvalued by, well, Jade Golems. Duh.
So of course Jade Golem decks will be popular straight away. The decks are easy to build, the concept is easy to understand, but you know what the biggest reason is? The fact that the majority of players are greedy control players that constantly complain about aggro spoiling their fun, and it is that greed that the Jade Golems are made to punish. I'm looking forward to that, especially because I'm ready to mess those Golem summoners up real bad.
Because the Jade Golem mechanic is overrated and slow. There, I said it. Can we stop fearmongering and doomsaying and just enjoy this expansion's theme now and maybe, just maybe wait until we see the rest of the cards?
With best regards, a Grimy Goon. (I think I just stepped on a Jade Golem... Ew.)
First off, Freeze Mage is combo. They just happen to control until they can combo.
Second, yes, the Jade Golems will keep greedy control decks in check. Yes, they will also keep non-greedy control decks in check. I don't complain about aggro ruining my fun, I tech against it. But how on earth, in the heavens, or in hell do you expect me to tech against an endless stream of growing minions without completely screwing up my game against aggro?
Third, yes I do have a plan against those Jade Golems, but it means I can't play Warrior anymore.
With regards, a fellow Grimy Goon. (I think I stepped in a Kaza-Kola spill... Ew.)
Fine, so it's combo-control if you really want to be that specific. To me, control is control. You point at things until they die, and repeat that until you either outvalue your opponent or they die of old age. The only difference is that combo-control is useless against 60 armor.
The tech question, I can honestly not answer that one yet. We'll have to see how strong the Jade Golems are by actually going up against them first and seeing their remaining cards, but right now, their biggest weakness is that they have to sacrifice precious card slots for overpriced cards that maybe snowball out of control every tenth game, and all the other games we'll hear complaints from the Lotus about "curvestone" and how they don't have enough time to make their Golems big enough. Calling it now. The only scary thing is maybe Jade Idol, but even that thing is only as good as the other synergy cards that have yet to be revealed. I ain't even scared.
And third, well... There's always the chance to make Aggro-Midrange Warrior work while Grim Patron is still in Standard.
Freeze mage is in no way a control deck. It doesn't "control" until it combos. It stalls until it can kill its opponent, and has no win condition other than winning with spell combos. It's a combo deck. By that logic every combo deck is a "combo-control deck" because it "controls the game until it combos"
Freeze Mage is a combo deck. The only deck that I think would be called Combo-Control is anyfin pally, because you rely a lot less on your combo to win an the deck plays out a lot like a standard control paladin with a combo finish. Freeze mage is just... different.
I have a feeling that jade golem decks are more mid-range/control instead of aggro. The mechanic is slow but can basically grind any other deck out(at least the druid variant).
I am afraid that people will just lock out their best face decks and destroy these decks by turn 6 or 7.
I never said Jade Golems are aggro. I simply said that control has no chance against said Golems (see Jade Idol). Now excuse me while I dabble in my collection to find a way to beat Jade Golem with control.
meet the next meta, kabal beats goons beats jade beats kabal, finally hearthstone got the counter game back and this time half of it is control so I am happy.
Please tell me how they've given control no new tools.
Just the fact that you even mentioned Piranha Launcher shows you have no idea what you are talking about.
You're just being ignorant. Read every other card I listed and tell me those aren't designed for control decks. You literally ignored everything I said and pointed to the one flaw in the post. I listed Piranha Launcher because it could be put into a silly Control or Reno Hunter. I didn't say it was good, I said it could be used as a control tool.
you know what I have to make a second post, somebody mentioned that it is impossible to clear more than two boards of jade golems, one how did somebody get 2 boards of jade golems, the first 3 are mediocre after that maybe you have three that get taken care of by minions and spells and then the next three need a dedicated board clear like equality something, but unless you are druid you have very little chance of having more, maybe you n'zoth some jade creators back, cool yeah, you win, but consider any n'zoth turn when they only have one board clear that kills it, already kind of bad for them because the deathrattles summon minions to kill the enemy. this just happens to be better. also you think that jade golems are actually going to be able to win consistently against aggro, think again unless you are shaman grimy goon paladin is gonna reck your shit, and even then it might not be enough you need a dedicated control deck with good board clears (which shaman has but not enough draw to make viable often), oh wait the kabal, which will often lose to the jade lotus not because they can't deal with two full boards of jade glems, which is rare usually they come one at a time, but instead because they will take a little bit of damage each turn and then get taken out by one finishing blow, the kabal beats the goons the goons beat the lotus the lotus beat the kabal, as I said. trust blizzard a little, not a lot but just a little, jade golems have limits getting 12 jade golems out in one game is a lot unless you hit fatigue as a druid and that will only happen in matchups that it wins anyway, if they get unlucky, so basically your fears of having huge boards of jade golems are not justified, but jade golems will be viable, and so will other control decks, maybe even some mill rogue can come in if jade gets outta hand, since those decks will likely run gadgetzan and it takes a while to get the jade train going in druid maybe you even make them think you are playing another deck and then surprise brann coldlight coldlight shadowstep coldlight because he did not add to his deck size with his cards becasue he did not want to dilute his deck or he just did not draw one until later when he thought he had lethal next turn if he used it now and you vanished his board. by the way sap and vanish are kind of incredible against jade golems, because they cost so much, like imagine your opponent has a 10/10 11/11 and 12/12 golem staring at you, just vanish that board maybe he replays the ten and that was his whole turn, sap it, maybe he tries to kill you somehow else, then you mill him and he cries. I don't know everything but I am sure that jade dolems are not unbeatable.
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Just fill your deck with one drops, that is creative deck design, right?
Kabal beats Grimmy Goons that beats Jade Lotus that beats Kabal ( you understood the reference).
Jade Lotus mechanic sucks tho. Kabal will be predominant because they can actually win by outtempoing Jade Lotus sometimes, i think. Especially with that Reno Mage Legendary + Kazakus. But Jade Lotus will just win in the long run, so no Priest meta guys.
Grimmy Goons could just fuck the ladder tho. Hunter will be a pain in the ass... it already is, actually but will be even more... so...
@Grynax I may have to edit my post so it disagrees with you now. We are the Kabal, and our faction is GOING TO BE RICH.
...though the Goons look fun. Can we still be friends?
Sure thing, dude. Where else would I get my Kaza-Kola and my sweet tattoos done after all if not the Kabal? (Although we'll feel free to tax you on those mentioned riches of course.)
The upside of being extremely rich is that taxes are more of an inconvenience than a roadblock, so I feel like after increasing prices to offset taxation we might be able to maintain a semi-peaceful existence. I'm going to stress semi-peaceful, considering your side is packing heat and our side is prone to making things explode.
And as far as this being a Rock/Paper/Scissors thing, that actually doesn't sound like it would be bad; it would ultimately depend how lopsided the matchups end up being (like Jade Lotus being 60% favored seems reasonable as a counterdeck to Kabal, but moving into 70%+ territory is something like CW vs Freeze Mage levels of not fun), but with this design there's a good chance that at any state of the meta you could pick a gang and have it be viable. Imagine if instead of Priest and Paladin being in a bad spot for most of the expansion they were only bad while the meta swung towards their counterfaction but then amazing when it swung in response to an increase of the faction they counter. In general we're also still going to have all of the same deck building tools we have right now, and non-gang decks are absolutely going to rise to prominence. If you're a Priest player and Kabal is weak, maybe Dragon Priest becomes the solution to allow you to still play a class you enjoy with a more proactive build.
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Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
Please tell me how they've given control no new tools.
Just the fact that you even mentioned Piranha Launcher shows you have no idea what you are talking about.
You're just being ignorant. Read every other card I listed and tell me those aren't designed for control decks. You literally ignored everything I said and pointed to the one flaw in the post. I listed Piranha Launcher because it could be put into a silly Control or Reno Hunter. I didn't say it was good, I said it could be used as a control tool.
1. Dragonfire potion: A tempo card for a tempo deck, dragon priest.
2. Pint-size poition Bad
3. Poition of Madness: Tempo card
4. Felfire Potion: Worse than twisting nether
5. Abyssal Enforcer: Bad hellfire, arena card only
6. Alley Armorsmith: If it sees play it will be in a buff taunt warrior tempo deck
7. Devolve: Too situational
8. Dirty Rat: Too situational
9. Inkmaster Solia: Tempo 0 mana 5/5, not a control card.
10. Kazakus: Actually a good control card.
11. Jade Lightning: Tempo card, ex: imp-losion
12. Kabal Courier: Meh, probably worse than jeweled scarab.
13. Kun the Forgotten King: Another tempo card, 0 mana 7/7
14. Manic Soulcaster: Another good control card
15. Piranha Launcher: Utterly terrible.
16. Volcanic Potion: Haven't we seen this card before?
Please tell me how they've given control no new tools.
Just the fact that you even mentioned Piranha Launcher shows you have no idea what you are talking about.
You're just being ignorant. Read every other card I listed and tell me those aren't designed for control decks. You literally ignored everything I said and pointed to the one flaw in the post. I listed Piranha Launcher because it could be put into a silly Control or Reno Hunter. I didn't say it was good, I said it could be used as a control tool.
1. Dragonfire potion: A tempo card for a tempo deck, dragon priest.
2. Pint-size poition Bad
3. Poition of Madness: Tempo card
4. Felfire Potion: Worse than twisting nether
5. Abyssal Enforcer: Bad hellfire, arena card only
6. Alley Armorsmith: If it sees play it will be in a buff taunt warrior tempo deck
7. Devolve: Too situational
8. Dirty Rat: Too situational
9. Inkmaster Solia: Tempo 0 mana 5/5, not a control card.
10. Kazakus: Actually a good control card.
11. Jade Lightning: Tempo card, ex: imp-losion
12. Kabal Courier: Meh, probably worse than jeweled scarab.
13. Kun the Forgotten King: Another tempo card, 0 mana 7/7
14. Manic Soulcaster: Another good control card
15. Piranha Launcher: Utterly terrible.
16. Volcanic Potion: Haven't we seen this card before?
Most of these can be used in control, but are not completely control-oriented.
The point of this thread is not that we're getting no control options, it's that the proportion of control options to anti-control options is completely absurd.
Please tell me how they've given control no new tools.
Just the fact that you even mentioned Piranha Launcher shows you have no idea what you are talking about.
You're just being ignorant. Read every other card I listed and tell me those aren't designed for control decks. You literally ignored everything I said and pointed to the one flaw in the post. I listed Piranha Launcher because it could be put into a silly Control or Reno Hunter. I didn't say it was good, I said it could be used as a control tool.
1. Dragonfire potion: A tempo card for a tempo deck, dragon priest.
2. Pint-size poition Bad
3. Poition of Madness: Tempo card
4. Felfire Potion: Worse than twisting nether
5. Abyssal Enforcer: Bad hellfire, arena card only
6. Alley Armorsmith: If it sees play it will be in a buff taunt warrior tempo deck
7. Devolve: Too situational
8. Dirty Rat: Too situational
9. Inkmaster Solia: Tempo 0 mana 5/5, not a control card.
10. Kazakus: Actually a good control card.
11. Jade Lightning: Tempo card, ex: imp-losion
12. Kabal Courier: Meh, probably worse than jeweled scarab.
13. Kun the Forgotten King: Another tempo card, 0 mana 7/7
14. Manic Soulcaster: Another good control card
15. Piranha Launcher: Utterly terrible.
16. Volcanic Potion: Haven't we seen this card before?
Most of these can be used in control, but are not completely control-oriented.
The point of this thread is not that we're getting no control options, it's that the proportion of control options to anti-control options is completely absurd.
Shrinkmaster is lightyears better than pin-size potion, you really can't compare the two. Shrinkmaster can work on its own, pint-size potion is a dead card in your hand if you can't combo with it.
Felfire Potion is just too late in the game for you to take that amount of damage, also it can't be used in the same turn as reno.
Dirty rat combo'd with brawl can have 2 results. Either you are playing against midrange or aggro and you kill 1 extra minion (big whoop), or you are playing against control and you have a 1 in X chance of pulling out their Medivh, but a X-1 in X chance of pulling out their shitty draw minions they weren't ever going to play anyway and you help clear their hand for them.
Please tell me how they've given control no new tools.
Just the fact that you even mentioned Piranha Launcher shows you have no idea what you are talking about.
You're just being ignorant. Read every other card I listed and tell me those aren't designed for control decks. You literally ignored everything I said and pointed to the one flaw in the post. I listed Piranha Launcher because it could be put into a silly Control or Reno Hunter. I didn't say it was good, I said it could be used as a control tool.
1. Dragonfire potion: A tempo card for a tempo deck, dragon priest.
2. Pint-size poition Bad
3. Poition of Madness: Tempo card
4. Felfire Potion: Worse than twisting nether
5. Abyssal Enforcer: Bad hellfire, arena card only
6. Alley Armorsmith: If it sees play it will be in a buff taunt warrior tempo deck
7. Devolve: Too situational
8. Dirty Rat: Too situational
9. Inkmaster Solia: Tempo 0 mana 5/5, not a control card.
10. Kazakus: Actually a good control card.
11. Jade Lightning: Tempo card, ex: imp-losion
12. Kabal Courier: Meh, probably worse than jeweled scarab.
13. Kun the Forgotten King: Another tempo card, 0 mana 7/7
14. Manic Soulcaster: Another good control card
15. Piranha Launcher: Utterly terrible.
16. Volcanic Potion: Haven't we seen this card before?
Most of these can be used in control, but are not completely control-oriented.
The point of this thread is not that we're getting no control options, it's that the proportion of control options to anti-control options is completely absurd.
Shrinkmaster is lightyears better than pin-size potion, you really can't compare the two. Shrinkmaster can work on its own, pint-size potion is a dead card in your hand if you can't combo with it.
Felfire Potion is just too late in the game for you to take that amount of damage, also it can't be used in the same turn as reno.
Dirty rat combo'd with brawl can have 2 results. Either you are playing against midrange or aggro and you kill 1 extra minion (big whoop), or you are playing against control and you have a 1 in X chance of pulling out their Medivh, but a X-1 in X chance of pulling out their shitty draw minions they weren't ever going to play anyway and you help clear their hand for them.
Tell me with a straight face that a 3/2 minion will do anything in constructed as a Priest. Pint-Size Potion is "lightyears ahead" of Shrinkmeister in constructed. The only place where Shrinkmeister might be better is Arena.
And most of the time, the said "shitty draw minion" is Acolyte of Pain, so you draw them 2-3 cards and bring them closer to fatigue, while also probably milling a card or two. Hardly emptying their hand.
Seems topic starter doesn't know what power creep means.
Wimmy wam wam wazzle!
Wimmy wam wam wazzle!
I have a feeling that jade golem decks are more mid-range/control instead of aggro. The mechanic is slow but can basically grind any other deck out(at least the druid variant).
I am afraid that people will just lock out their best face decks and destroy these decks by turn 6 or 7.
Explosive Shot => Meteor
Power Word: Tentacles => Spikeridged Steed
meet the next meta, kabal beats goons beats jade beats kabal, finally hearthstone got the counter game back and this time half of it is control so I am happy.
Just fill your deck with one drops, that is creative deck design, right?
you know what I have to make a second post, somebody mentioned that it is impossible to clear more than two boards of jade golems, one how did somebody get 2 boards of jade golems, the first 3 are mediocre after that maybe you have three that get taken care of by minions and spells and then the next three need a dedicated board clear like equality something, but unless you are druid you have very little chance of having more, maybe you n'zoth some jade creators back, cool yeah, you win, but consider any n'zoth turn when they only have one board clear that kills it, already kind of bad for them because the deathrattles summon minions to kill the enemy. this just happens to be better. also you think that jade golems are actually going to be able to win consistently against aggro, think again unless you are shaman grimy goon paladin is gonna reck your shit, and even then it might not be enough you need a dedicated control deck with good board clears (which shaman has but not enough draw to make viable often), oh wait the kabal, which will often lose to the jade lotus not because they can't deal with two full boards of jade glems, which is rare usually they come one at a time, but instead because they will take a little bit of damage each turn and then get taken out by one finishing blow, the kabal beats the goons the goons beat the lotus the lotus beat the kabal, as I said. trust blizzard a little, not a lot but just a little, jade golems have limits getting 12 jade golems out in one game is a lot unless you hit fatigue as a druid and that will only happen in matchups that it wins anyway, if they get unlucky, so basically your fears of having huge boards of jade golems are not justified, but jade golems will be viable, and so will other control decks, maybe even some mill rogue can come in if jade gets outta hand, since those decks will likely run gadgetzan and it takes a while to get the jade train going in druid maybe you even make them think you are playing another deck and then surprise brann coldlight coldlight shadowstep coldlight because he did not add to his deck size with his cards becasue he did not want to dilute his deck or he just did not draw one until later when he thought he had lethal next turn if he used it now and you vanished his board. by the way sap and vanish are kind of incredible against jade golems, because they cost so much, like imagine your opponent has a 10/10 11/11 and 12/12 golem staring at you, just vanish that board maybe he replays the ten and that was his whole turn, sap it, maybe he tries to kill you somehow else, then you mill him and he cries. I don't know everything but I am sure that jade dolems are not unbeatable.
Just fill your deck with one drops, that is creative deck design, right?
I hate the fact that HS will be like Pokemon:
Kabal beats Grimmy Goons that beats Jade Lotus that beats Kabal ( you understood the reference).
Jade Lotus mechanic sucks tho. Kabal will be predominant because they can actually win by outtempoing Jade Lotus sometimes, i think. Especially with that Reno Mage Legendary + Kazakus. But Jade Lotus will just win in the long run, so no Priest meta guys.
Grimmy Goons could just fuck the ladder tho. Hunter will be a pain in the ass... it already is, actually but will be even more... so...
RIP ROGUE
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
Wimmy wam wam wazzle!
2. Felfire Potion: not necessarily. More like Hellfire +2, which is actually pretty good.
3. Dirty Rat into Brawl is hardly situational.
Explosive Shot => Meteor
Power Word: Tentacles => Spikeridged Steed
Wimmy wam wam wazzle!
This expansion so far, they're basically giving aggro and midrange a bunch of new, fun toys and giving control Bomb Squad.
2. Felfire Potion: not necessarily. More like Hellfire +2, which is actually pretty good.
3. Dirty Rat into Brawl is hardly situational.
Explosive Shot => Meteor
Power Word: Tentacles => Spikeridged Steed