That's right, Kabal are better than Grimies. Now, i'm not talking about the cards necessarily being more viable or anything like that, but rather the design of them. The design of the tri-class cards specifically. Let's take a look at them:
Now the first thing that i noticed, and you might've noticed as well, is how lazily the Grimy Goons tri-class cards are designed. They do the exact same thing all the new cards in Hunter, Warrior and Paladin do. The effects are not unique at all nor do they give me anything from other classes. Infact, Grimestreet Informant is the only card that makes me feel like being a part of Grimy Goons gives me some sort of special advantages, i get to do stuff i normally can't. The rest of the two cards, do not do that. They aren't any different from the class cards.
Now the three Kabal cards however, ALL give me the feeling that i'm getting the priviledge of doing things only other classes normally could. I am part of the Kabals, therefore i get all these special rights. Kabal Courier and Kabal Chemist both give me a chance to utilize cards from the other Kabal classes, as if me being part of the gang means that my mates are able to help me out a little. I'm not fighting alone, I'm fighting in a gang. Even the legendary Kazakus which would be a very creative card either way features effects commonly associated with the Kabal classes in his custom spells. For example summoning demons (warlock), stealing cards from opponents deck (priest) and transforming minions (mage).
So yeah, Kabal > Grimy Goons because Goons tri-class cards are very lazily designed and don't give the feeling that i'm pretty sure the developers were trying to go for when coming up with this gang mechanic. Feeling like you're part of a gang.
TL;DR Grimy Goons doesn't make me feel like i'm in a gang, but Kabal nails it.
NOTE! Since some people seem to have either misunderstood or failed to read before posting, this thread doesn't talk about the Grimy Goons +1/+1 mechanic being automatically worse than Kabal's potions. That can't be determined without seeing all or atleast most of the potions first. This thread solely looks at how well the tri-class cards give off the feeling of being in a gang.
I like the Goons in the sense that they actually do convey the sort of grassroots organization that constitutes a big part of gang formation. It's a bunch of little scrubs and miscreants who get together and pump each other up to get stronger together. Doesn't make for the most interesting or nuanced mechanics in a card game, but I'd say the flavor is spot on, even down to Pally's corrupt lawyer (or at least that's how I interpreted the Grimestreet Protector's art) giving everyone immunity and standing in the way of people getting at them directly. It really feels like the mob or some other conventional street gang. Community building with a rough iron fist.
Kabal is more... Culty? I can't really think of a good real world analogue. I'm thinking of this as more of a top-down distribution syndicate with cult elements, given the reveals so far. Basically dealers with a fancy religion. Giving out potions with the cards just makes sense in the theme there. Kabal minions providing some of their product, as it were. It's a clever way to take on a somewhat distinct sector of organized crime as a CCG mechanic.
I have no idea on the Jade Lotus, but my bet is that I'll be getting some maybe Yakuza vibes or something like that. I would have thought tattoos, but the Kabal announcement threw that out the window, so I really have no clue how they'll swing that. Regardless, I'm interested to see how they translate another archetype of organized crime into card form.
TL;DR, I think the flavor is fine for both factions so far. They're just going for different stories of gangs and organized crime.
I like the Goons in the sense that they actually do convey the sort of grassroots organization that constitutes a big part of gang formation. It's a bunch of little scrubs and miscreants who get together and pump each other up to get stronger together. Doesn't make for the most interesting or nuanced mechanics in a card game, but I'd say the flavor is spot on, even down to Pally's corrupt lawyer (or at least that's how I interpreted the Grimestreet Protector's art) giving everyone immunity and standing in the way of people getting at them directly. It really feels like the mob or some other conventional street gang. Community building with a rough iron fist.
Kabal is more... Culty? I can't really think of a good real world analogue. I'm thinking of this as more of a top-down distribution syndicate with cult elements, given the reveals so far. Giving out potions with the cards just makes sense in the theme there. Kabal minions providing some of their product, as it were. It's a clever way to take on a somewhat distinct sector of organized crime as a CCG mechanic.
I have no idea on the Jade Lotus, but my bet is that I'll be getting some maybe Yakuza vibes or something like that. I would have thought tattoos, but the Kabal announcement threw that out the window, so I really have no clue how they'll swing that. Regardless, I'm interested to see how they translate another archetype of organized crime into card form.
TL;DR, I think the flavor is fine for both factions so far. They're just going for different stories of gangs and organized crime.
Yeah, i understand that, but it's just that i feel the tri-class cards are very unimaginative and don't make me feel my gang is helping me out when i need it. I would've liked them to feel a bit more unique than being rehashes of the same thing.
It is true that their other tri card let's me access more stuff from the other two classes, and their legendary has effects right at home in them. So yeah in the sense you are saying, I agree.
But damn if the don ain't amazing in a goons deck.
I mean, your deck is your gang here. I think you're looking for the cards to bring in something from the outside, like equipment or manpower, but that's not really what a street gang is about. It's about insularity, banding together against the outside. I definitely agree that the hand buffing mechanic gets a bit samey, but it's definitely very ganglike in that sense. And I do think you have to take into account more than just the gang neutrals when really looking at the gang as a whole, given that the classes so far have contained most of the actual gang cards. The tri-class cards are just a part of it, really.
To each their own though. What satisfies me doesn't need to satisfy you.
And I do think you have to take into account more than just the gang neutrals when really looking at the gang as a whole, given that the classes so far have contained most of the actual gang cards. The tri-class cards are just a part of it, really.
If i was here to talk about the whole gang, then yes obviously. But i only wish to give my opinion on this one portion of those gangs, I don't see anything wrong with that.
"I don't even know what the class cards related to the kabal are exactly gonna be, but I can read the future and say right now I will prefer them"
" I do not understand english properly and thus fail to realize this thread is only talking about the three tri-class cards."
I am currently living in the UK, so please, don't assume someone's level in a language when you don't even know them. The title of the thread itself suggests the topic is not only the tri-class cards, and "They do the exact same thing all the new cards in Hunter, Warrior and Paladin do." is assuming that it will be any different for the Kabal.
Now, while I do prefer Kabal because I like the class combination more, I don't think that the Goons mechanic is a weak one but it is not executed too well. If we've gotten more cards like Dispatch Kodo which interact with the Goons mechanic in a different way then I might lean more towards giving them a shot but I must admit that, from what we've gotten so far, they do seem pretty boring and the only class that will use this mechanic to its full potential is paladin...in an aggro deck...because buff all minions in your hand>buff a random minon in your hand.
"I don't even know what the class cards related to the kabal are exactly gonna be, but I can read the future and say right now I will prefer them"
" I do not understand english properly and thus fail to realize this thread is only talking about the three tri-class cards."
I am currently living in the UK, so please, don't assume someone's level in a language when you don't even know them. The title of the thread itself suggests the topic is not only the tri-class cards, and "They do the exact same thing all the new cards in Hunter, Warrior and Paladin do." is assuming that it will be any different for the Kabal.
I'm not assuming anything, im making a sarcastic statement. I mean, your comment was very clear english how could anyone seriously assume you can't speak it.
Also, so far the few we've seen from Kabal class cards they have been very different so i don't really see your point there either.
Also the title does not equal the whole post. Title is supposed to be short and then the post can expand on what the title says specifying it etc. If you don't want to read the post itself, then don't come around commenting either. If you read the post it should be very clear i'm talking about tri-class cards.
Can we comment on the Goons vs Kabal mechanics now?
It's funny (and sad) that Kabal received all the tools to just one card counter the buffs from goons.
So you buffed all your little minions into 5/5s and play a bunch on turn 6!!.. and they're dead and you lose.
I like the goons mechanic. It's actually pretty conducive to clever deck design. But with the heavy heavy AOE and hard removal we're likely going to see it seems really weak.
And we haven't even seen the gang with the top two current decks, yet. Poor Goons. :'(
Can we comment on the Goons vs Kabal mechanics now?
It's funny (and sad) that Kabal received all the tools to just one card counter the buffs from goons.
So you buffed all your little minions into 5/5s and play a bunch on turn 6!!.. and they're dead and you lose.
I like the goons mechanic. It's actually pretty conducive to clever deck design. But with the heavy heavy AOE and hard removal we're likely going to see it seems really weak.
And we haven't even seen the gang with the top two current decks, yet. Poor Goons. :'(
A) Kabal has to draw the AOE in order to use them effectively. Same as any other aggro vs Control matchups
B) You don't have to play a Goon themed deck in order to get the Goons to work for you. Don Han'Cho buffs a card to be a legitimate late game threat, and Grimestreet Enforcer is going to be highly playable by itself, turning each Azure Drake or Ivory Knight into bigger threats or giant monsters if left unchecked. Pack Rat and Dispatch Kodo will have already done their damage just by being played.
C) The Lotus is the best anyway, so there's no point in arguing over second place :P
you should google: "yugioh archetypes" and take a look at some of them or just google ghostricks, all of the members of the same archetype have at least one common effect between all of them, otherwise the archetype fails because it has not enough support and is literally unplayable, sadly this seems to be Kabal's case, this is the Kabal reveal week and so far only two cards (the class legendaries) do what the Kabal introductory post said and well i guess Manic Soulcaster and the Kabal hand refillers fall in the category of Kabal support but it's still a really low amount of support compared with the consistency of the goons. ,
it's pretty sad because i was super Hyped for Kabal since imho it has the most interesting flavor of all and my favorite class is mage so i was expecting a lot of highlander stuff in all rarity slots but we're just getting boring Oozes, Bombers and Murlocs
like come on, Toxic Sewer Ooze is an ooze that is supposed to be created from the toxic waste of the dangerous potions the Kabals brew, at most it could have something to do with potions or spells even if it's simple, maybe aLoatheb that only works if your deck is highlander or a bigger Mana Wyrm but instead we get a glorified Bloodsail Corsair that has nothing to do with Kabal mechanics , like you know toxic sewer ooze could easily be a Bloodsail card from another expansion, so far we already know Bloodsail cards interact with weapons in one way or another.
you should google: "yugioh archetypes" and take a look at some of them or just google ghostricks, all of the members of the same archetype have at least one common effect between all of them, otherwise the archetype fails because it has not enough support and is literally unplayable, sadly this seems to be Kabal's case, this is the Kabal reveal week and so far only two cards (the class legendaries) do what the Kabal introductory post said and well i guess Manic Soulcaster and the Kabal hand refillers fall in the category of Kabal support but it's still a really low amount of support compared with the consistency of the goons. ,
it's pretty sad because i was super Hyped for Kabal since imho it has the most interesting flavor of all and my favorite class is mage so i was expecting a lot of highlander stuff in all rarity slots but we're just getting boring Oozes, Bombers and Murlocs
like come on, Toxic Sewer Ooze is an ooze that is supposed to be created from the toxic waste of the dangerous potions the Kabals brew, at most it could have something to do with potions or spells even if it's simple, maybe aLoatheb that only works if your deck is highlander or a bigger Mana Wyrm but instead we get a glorified Bloodsail Corsair that has nothing to do with Kabal mechanics , like you know toxic sewer ooze could easily be a Bloodsail card from another expansion, so far we already know Bloodsail cards interact with weapons in one way or another.
Soo you want all the Kabal cards to be just for highlander decks? I don't know what you've been smoking then, but i want that stuff.
Also Reno decks can be supported in otherways than adding cards that only work with no duplicates. For example adding cards that do a similar thing to another card. That new demon for example is a Hellfire with a body. Pretty sweet for Reno decks.
That's right, Kabal are better than Grimies. Now, i'm not talking about the cards necessarily being more viable or anything like that, but rather the design of them. The design of the tri-class cards specifically. Let's take a look at them:
Kabal Courier
Kabal Chemist
Kazakus
Grimestreet Informant
Grimestreet Smuggler
Don Han'Cho
Now the first thing that i noticed, and you might've noticed as well, is how lazily the Grimy Goons tri-class cards are designed. They do the exact same thing all the new cards in Hunter, Warrior and Paladin do. The effects are not unique at all nor do they give me anything from other classes. Infact, Grimestreet Informant is the only card that makes me feel like being a part of Grimy Goons gives me some sort of special advantages, i get to do stuff i normally can't. The rest of the two cards, do not do that. They aren't any different from the class cards.
Now the three Kabal cards however, ALL give me the feeling that i'm getting the priviledge of doing things only other classes normally could. I am part of the Kabals, therefore i get all these special rights. Kabal Courier and Kabal Chemist both give me a chance to utilize cards from the other Kabal classes, as if me being part of the gang means that my mates are able to help me out a little. I'm not fighting alone, I'm fighting in a gang. Even the legendary Kazakus which would be a very creative card either way features effects commonly associated with the Kabal classes in his custom spells. For example summoning demons (warlock), stealing cards from opponents deck (priest) and transforming minions (mage).
So yeah, Kabal > Grimy Goons because Goons tri-class cards are very lazily designed and don't give the feeling that i'm pretty sure the developers were trying to go for when coming up with this gang mechanic. Feeling like you're part of a gang.
TL;DR Grimy Goons doesn't make me feel like i'm in a gang, but Kabal nails it.
NOTE! Since some people seem to have either misunderstood or failed to read before posting, this thread doesn't talk about the Grimy Goons +1/+1 mechanic being automatically worse than Kabal's potions. That can't be determined without seeing all or atleast most of the potions first. This thread solely looks at how well the tri-class cards give off the feeling of being in a gang.
My custom cards thread here (53 cards)
"A mechanic is very straight forward and promotes decision making instead of RNG bullshit, thus I don't like it"
"I don't even know what the class cards related to the kabal are exactly gonna be, but I can read the future and say right now I will prefer them"
Hello.
My custom cards thread here (53 cards)
I like the Goons in the sense that they actually do convey the sort of grassroots organization that constitutes a big part of gang formation. It's a bunch of little scrubs and miscreants who get together and pump each other up to get stronger together. Doesn't make for the most interesting or nuanced mechanics in a card game, but I'd say the flavor is spot on, even down to Pally's corrupt lawyer (or at least that's how I interpreted the Grimestreet Protector's art) giving everyone immunity and standing in the way of people getting at them directly. It really feels like the mob or some other conventional street gang. Community building with a rough iron fist.
Kabal is more... Culty? I can't really think of a good real world analogue. I'm thinking of this as more of a top-down distribution syndicate with cult elements, given the reveals so far. Basically dealers with a fancy religion. Giving out potions with the cards just makes sense in the theme there. Kabal minions providing some of their product, as it were. It's a clever way to take on a somewhat distinct sector of organized crime as a CCG mechanic.
I have no idea on the Jade Lotus, but my bet is that I'll be getting some maybe Yakuza vibes or something like that. I would have thought tattoos, but the Kabal announcement threw that out the window, so I really have no clue how they'll swing that. Regardless, I'm interested to see how they translate another archetype of organized crime into card form.
TL;DR, I think the flavor is fine for both factions so far. They're just going for different stories of gangs and organized crime.
My custom cards thread here (53 cards)
It is true that their other tri card let's me access more stuff from the other two classes, and their legendary has effects right at home in them. So yeah in the sense you are saying, I agree.
But damn if the don ain't amazing in a goons deck.
I will be angry if someone doesn't do a meme of the Simpson school bus fruit race with the clans. "Go
bananaGrimy Goons!"Remember playing Control Shaman with Reincarnate shenanigans? No? It was fun, here's a refresher!
I mean, your deck is your gang here. I think you're looking for the cards to bring in something from the outside, like equipment or manpower, but that's not really what a street gang is about. It's about insularity, banding together against the outside. I definitely agree that the hand buffing mechanic gets a bit samey, but it's definitely very ganglike in that sense. And I do think you have to take into account more than just the gang neutrals when really looking at the gang as a whole, given that the classes so far have contained most of the actual gang cards. The tri-class cards are just a part of it, really.
To each their own though. What satisfies me doesn't need to satisfy you.
My custom cards thread here (53 cards)
Hello.
I've talked about the design of Goons extensively here: http://hearthstoneplayers.com/here-come-the-goons/
Now, while I do prefer Kabal because I like the class combination more, I don't think that the Goons mechanic is a weak one but it is not executed too well. If we've gotten more cards like Dispatch Kodo which interact with the Goons mechanic in a different way then I might lean more towards giving them a shot but I must admit that, from what we've gotten so far, they do seem pretty boring and the only class that will use this mechanic to its full potential is paladin...in an aggro deck...because buff all minions in your hand>buff a random minon in your hand.
My custom cards thread here (53 cards)
Can we comment on the Goons vs Kabal mechanics now?
It's funny (and sad) that Kabal received all the tools to just one card counter the buffs from goons.
So you buffed all your little minions into 5/5s and play a bunch on turn 6!!.. and they're dead and you lose.
I like the goons mechanic. It's actually pretty conducive to clever deck design. But with the heavy heavy AOE and hard removal we're likely going to see it seems really weak.
And we haven't even seen the gang with the top two current decks, yet. Poor Goons. :'(
you should google: "yugioh archetypes" and take a look at some of them or just google ghostricks, all of the members of the same archetype have at least one common effect between all of them, otherwise the archetype fails because it has not enough support and is literally unplayable, sadly this seems to be Kabal's case, this is the Kabal reveal week and so far only two cards (the class legendaries) do what the Kabal introductory post said and well i guess Manic Soulcaster and the Kabal hand refillers fall in the category of Kabal support but it's still a really low amount of support compared with the consistency of the goons. ,
it's pretty sad because i was super Hyped for Kabal since imho it has the most interesting flavor of all and my favorite class is mage so i was expecting a lot of highlander stuff in all rarity slots but we're just getting boring Oozes, Bombers and Murlocs
like come on, Toxic Sewer Ooze is an ooze that is supposed to be created from the toxic waste of the dangerous potions the Kabals brew, at most it could have something to do with potions or spells even if it's simple, maybe aLoatheb that only works if your deck is highlander or a bigger Mana Wyrm but instead we get a glorified Bloodsail Corsair that has nothing to do with Kabal mechanics , like you know toxic sewer ooze could easily be a Bloodsail card from another expansion, so far we already know Bloodsail cards interact with weapons in one way or another.
Kabal=less rng . but required good draw. highlander deck inconsistence only have 1 copy card
Grimy goons=rng minion buff. will random decide the outcome of games.
My custom cards thread here (53 cards)