Hearthpwn

is there something I'm missing here why all the hate?

the new mode seems fun and you're not forced to do it i don't see anything wrong with it

 I guess the main problem is that this replaces the normal brawl and, thus, also the weekly free pack. And this heroic brawl is likely the opposite than f2p-friendly (majority of people will pay more than they get out).

Yep, if it was in addition to regular brawl , it would be ignorable and thus fine. As it stands, it means missing out on some free dust and a few amusing games each week. Not a big deal but a step back in fun rather than forward.

Arena generally gives you back as much or more than you put in if you break even on wins/losses. This one, you have to do really really well against constructed decks to come close to getting value for your entry cost.

It's a cool idea, just the cost/reward structure is problematic.

Quote from Horkinger >>

 I guess the main problem is that this replaces the normal brawl and, thus, also the weekly free pack. And this heroic brawl is likely the opposite than f2p-friendly (majority of people will pay more than they get out).

Because the amount of wins (and winrate) needed to profit from the brawl are insanely high. 70%+ winrate is rarely achieved and mostly comes down to running into favourable matchups. Therefore, it's not really worth the trouble. We want a real tournament mode, where you play more than 1 class, with class bans and maybe lower stakes, because paying 1000 gold, going 0-3 and getting 1 pack is too punishing.

Honestly the brawl is good for a free pack, however its mostly just some fun RNG bases games geared toward f2p players.

With all Blizzcon qualifiers finished there isn't much activity in the tournament scene. I think this is a fair switch to give the competitive players who enjoy competitions with rewards but didn't make it far in the world tour to have some fun. Most weeks of the year tavern brawl is for the casual player so I think its fine if one week is dedicated to the non casual players.

I Honestly don't expect to do all that well but I am interested to see how far I can get. Alot of players are worried that it will just be a shaman fest, but if that's the case it can be easily countered and I think after a few days there will be a decent amount of variety.

Quote from Toymachine >>

It's hated cos people complain about anything in general.

Quote from TheMaestroHS >>

 Alot of players are worried that it will just be a shaman fest

There's more than just 'we don't get a normal brawl" though.

Casual players, as said, dislike the above.  There's also the fact that it's effectively Ranked in its meta, but with no option to take risks like in normal ranked.  

Semi-competitive folks, especially the F2P ones, hate how inaccessible it is.  F2pers need to save up for the next expansion and really can't afford to get into this one with it's Old Gods pack rewards.  Semi-competitive, meanwhile, fear, rightfully, of the requirements to break even.  They can see getting 3 arena wins.  They can't see getting 6 wins in a constructive setup.  Thus the mode just isn't an option for them.

The REAL competitive folks hate the setup:

It's set up like Arena, but the payout is horrible, and folks have calculated that, on average, you'll lose 30% of what you put in.  That puts the odds as similar to gambling except even casinos give you better odds.

...that gets to the argument of "you aren't gambling.  The setup is similar to a tournament where you only win a prize if you get the upper spots."  Now this is true: tournaments prize structures are setup similar to this brawl.  The issue then becomes the format: best of 1 with only one class as a locked down option.

Note that best of 3 tournaments are mocked as not being enough games to avoid RNG swings. And this is a best of 1?  Card games are, in the end, all about picking the right deck for the opponents you face.  That's the core of the difficulty.  HS demonstrates this with the multi-class format, letting you pit the right deck against a praticular deck of your opponent and winning them that way.  you can't do that here.  So  a lot of what makes the pro scene what it is isn't there in the brawl.

Thus the vast majority of players are given a mode they can't play in (and don't get to play in a mode they normally do play in).  As for the rest, it's a horrible payout structure for an Arena styled mode and a horrible format for a Tournament styled mode.  Worst of both worlds.  

Thus why the outcry.

Some people can't go 12-0.  Personally I plan to get 12 wins every time I sign up for HB.

75% winrates are my specialty.

Quote from T4te >>

Quote from Toymachine >>

Quote from T4te >>

Because it's cheap to so clearly rip people off gold just before expansion. I mean if you have iq over 15, you see it's just a trick to make people spend their gold so they will have to pay for packs with real money later on. I don't have anything against Blizzard trying to make money, it's their goal. But I don't like cheap tricks.

Nah, if you have IQ over 15 and think you won't have over 5 wins required for profit then don't play it? No one forces you to, it's cheap trick only for imbeciles that for some mysterious reasons think they have to play it. Luckily for us, you don't have to play it if you don't want to.

It's a nice brawl and nice mode with much higher stakes for people that love that, it will be really nice watching streamers play it and it's a nice chance for really good players/deckbuilders to get actually rewarded for a change.

For those that don't like it? Don't play it - no cheap tricks at all here, you know stakes, you know rewards you know what you need to pay if you wanna play it - clear as a day. Only "IQ 15" as you call them will play it if they think it won't pay off.

 Lol, this is how tricks work. You promise people a lot (omg, 50 packs, 3 golden legendaries), then crush their dreams. Of course no one reasonable will attempt to play this with their long-saved gold. So what if they will farm only idiots? Can't I sympathize with naive morrons from time to time? As I said, I'm not gonna blame Blizzard for ripping off noobies, but it doesn't change the fact I don't like such manuvers. It's fine, but still cheap.

As a new player it just makes it even harder to get into the game because it deprives us of the basic Brawl. I was initially only going to be F2P but decided I liked the game enough to at least pay about $40 (so far) on Adventures and a few packs. At  this point I still can't really build a very competitive deck for winning Quests so the weekly Brawl was one of the few ways each week I could actually earn some gold for free packs to build off of. This past week's Brawl literally got me through 4 quests and enough coin to buy a handful of packs. Plus the cost to enter is very steep with almost no payoff for new players like myself. I don't mind that it isn't for new players like me but it takes away something everyone, including new players, can play for something really only viable to veterans. I assume people worry that this is a new costly direction the game might be heading especially after the survey they sent out asking what new features we would be willing to pay for. Makes me worry that it's about to get even more expensive to play this "free" game. 

People are saying its super cheap and blizzard is cheating them out of gold. Don't spend your gold then, its a gamble and this is clearly not aimed at f2p players they get to have the tavern brawl every other week. This isn't really any different than a lottery ticket spend a few bucks probably get nothing maybe get a bunch of stuff.

People need to lighten up a little and give constructive feedback, saying its lame and a cheat of gold gains nothing, if you think the price/reward ratio is unbalanced say that, if you think it should be 3 classes say that etc...

Anyone who enters isn't getting ripped off they are making a conscience decisions to attempt to make back more resources than they put in.

Quote from iandakar >>

There's more than just 'we don't get a normal brawl" though.

Casual players, as said, dislike the above.  There's also the fact that it's effectively Ranked in its meta, but with no option to take risks like in normal ranked.  

Semi-competitive folks, especially the F2P ones, hate how inaccessible it is.  F2pers need to save up for the next expansion and really can't afford to get into this one with it's Old Gods pack rewards.  Semi-competitive, meanwhile, fear, rightfully, of the requirements to break even.  They can see getting 3 arena wins.  They can't see getting 6 wins in a constructive setup.  Thus the mode just isn't an option for them.

The REAL competitive folks hate the setup:

It's set up like Arena, but the payout is horrible, and folks have calculated that, on average, you'll lose 30% of what you put in.  That puts the odds as similar to gambling except even casinos give you better odds.

...that gets to the argument of "you aren't gambling.  The setup is similar to a tournament where you only win a prize if you get the upper spots."  Now this is true: tournaments prize structures are setup similar to this brawl.  The issue then becomes the format: best of 1 with only one class as a locked down option.

Note that best of 3 tournaments are mocked as not being enough games to avoid RNG swings. And this is a best of 1?  Card games are, in the end, all about picking the right deck for the opponents you face.  That's the core of the difficulty.  HS demonstrates this with the multi-class format, letting you pit the right deck against a praticular deck of your opponent and winning them that way.  you can't do that here.  So  a lot of what makes the pro scene what it is isn't there in the brawl.

 

Thus the vast majority of players are given a mode they can't play in (and don't get to play in a mode they normally do play in).  As for the rest, it's a horrible payout structure for an Arena styled mode and a horrible format for a Tournament styled mode.  Worst of both worlds.  

Thus why the outcry.

 

 

It's a good concept, but 1000gold is tough to get. If you save your quest gold say avg 50 per, it will take 20 days of quest to do this. Second the rewards for I think 10 and 11 are silly.. 16 packs next to 50 for 1 or 2 more wins.. wow... I think this is a way for blizzard to test out the strongest decks and see what needs help and what doesnt. They can see the decks with 12 wins and the ones with 1 win and help designers make cards that can help etc etc

Feedback like this is whats needed not just random complaints.

Thank you, though to their credit all I really do in posts like that are gather up all of those complaints and present them in a more debate worthy format.   It's the Rant version of the TL:DR summary.

The devs told me in the heroic brawl video that this mode might not be good for me, but I can have fun watching streamers playing it. Probably this one triggered me the most. So i can watch others playing the new game mode, I should be happy. What a time to be alive!

This.. is probably something to REALLLLLY think about when you hear folks wanting a more competitive mode.  Such a mode would have a similar effect to this brawl: a game mode not workable by the majority of the player base, but is designed to please a small minority.

Though to put some defense to it, this IS exactly how the highly competitive folks felt when they heard that Tournament mode got pushed aside for Tavern Brawl, a highly uncompetitive silly mode just for fun.  

Someday, Blizzard will make a full mode that's hyper competitive.  And most people will find that it's not a place they can really enjoy.  This brawl is a taste of that future day as far as casual players go.

Unless they decide NOT to cater to that group and focus on more accessible modes.  That IS an option.

Quote from Poghy >>

1. We wanted different formats, and its just standard.

2. The entry fee is not for f2p players.

3. We wanted an accessible tournament mode, its far from it.

4. It seems a cashgrab, with a good timing. October: spend your gold/cash November: announcement of the new expansion December: new expansion

5. The devs told me in the heroic brawl video that this mode might not be good for me, but I can have fun watching streamers playing it. Probably this one triggered me the most. So i can watch others playing the new game mode, I should be happy. What a time to be alive!

Im pretty sure there are pages and pages worth of internet posts that you can read which will answer the OP's question.

Because the value-for-cost difference is a joke. Blizzard is literally shamming any player who decides to buy into this that doesn't at least get past 7 wins. I'm scared some casuals may actually pay for this thinking it's worth a shot. It's not. Respond to blizzard with your wallet

Quote from Toymachine >>

Quote from JPaynerVideo >>

Some people can't go 12-0.  Personally I plan to get 12 wins every time I sign up for HB.

75% winrates are my specialty.

It's sometimes hard to tell sarcasm from serious people when reading but 75% is higher than top 1 legend's wr. And in this brawl if same rules apply as in arena you have 5 wins you will play vs other guy with 5 wins you make it to 10 wins? You play vs guy with 10 wins as well... so GL with your plan to get 12 wins.