Hearthpwn

Quote from Frostraven >>

Quote from Doomedspeed >>

I want to have a bit of a say on this as I think some people are missing the point a little.

This is a tavern Brawl, its a optional part of the game. It doesn't effect ladder results/arena rewards or anything like that. Being a Tavern Brawl it is also temporary, this isn't a new 'hard-core gambling' mode; this is a (possibly) one week only event.

Since the dawn of time (I may be exaggerating for effect) people have been asking for blizzard to implement a tournament mode in hearthstone. The way the tavern brawl work is similar to a playable tournament mode. In reality tournaments (or even tournament qualifiers) for hearthstone are high risk - High reward. There is time, effort and (travel/accommodation) expense that goes in to entering a tournament and unless you make to it the quarter/semi/final you may possibly walk out empty handed. It can be brutal. It sounds very similar to this mode right? Does this mean blizzard are trailing a possible tournament mode? Yeah it seems that way.

Inclusive! By their nature tournament modes are not inclusive (for everyone) they are for the best-of-the-best, to make a name for themselves to earn rewards. This tavern brawl is that. It's not for everyone, its not something you HAVE TO play; considering Hearthstone is a free game, you are not losing anything at all by it existing, its not like a FIFA mode that you have to pay to get access too (on top of already buying the game). This is blizzard calling the hard-core players to battle. This is for them, possibly only the top 5%. In my eyes this is a good move; recently there has been a lot of inclusive features for new and F2P players, pack promotions, sign up rewards, easy cheap brawls... The other side of the fan-base had nothing new until now.

I think blizzard have been really clever with the payment/rewards system its very similar to what you'd expect from a tournament; it has that feeling of every move counts, and it will. Making the rewards all in-game items too doesn't make it exploitable. I for one am very excited for this brawl, I doubt I'll play but its a great step in the right direction for hand-core players. If this doesn't generate a tournament mode (off the back of it) I hope that this brawl is repeated maybe every 4-8 weeks.

 Out of the blue, a tournament mode is announced.

For a week.

Prior to an expansion.

For the cost of 6.66 arena runs, or 1.43 adventure wings.

With 1 pack rewarded for a 3 loss RNG streak...

...

For anyone to get more than 3 wins -- someone must get less than 3 wins.

MOST players will get less than 3 wins:
That's the only way anyone at all CAN get more than 3 wins.
Even if the 100 best players in the word were the only 100 players playing, most of them would get less than 3 wins, because for every 12-0, there's 12 players who get a loss, and nonone got any wins against that player.

To beat just playing the arena with 4-5 wins average, you need 9 wins.
Thats a 75% win rate, except the only valid way to reach 75%% wins is ending your 75% win rate with a loss.

Even if you WOULD go 75% win rate, you have to do it in a specific order:

No:
Loss, Win, Loss, Win, Loss, Win, Win, Win, Win, Win, Win, Win
or
Win, Win, Loss, Win, Win, Loss, Win, Win, Loss, Win, Win, Win
or
Win, Win, Win, Win, Loss, Loss, Win, Win, Win, Loss, Win, Win

Only:
Loss, Win, Loss, Win, Win, Win, Win, Win, Win, Win, Win, Loss


---

Formats such as these should let you play 12 games, and count your wins:
12 wins will be exceedingly rare, regardless.

Hell -- the price pool looks more balanced for a guaranteed 12 round tournament than for a 3 loss knockout:
For every 9, 10 and 11 wins -- there is a 1, 2, 3 wins player.

12 wins will be less than 1 in 200 players, guaranteed, because of the odds of going second and getting ONE bad hand versus an opponent with a good hand, and this isn't arena where your deck can be godly compared to most other decks: You play the same deck as everyone else.
Quite literally, in the case of midrange shamans.

---

This is a digital game.
This is not a trading card nor collectible card game -- this is a digital game SIMULATING one as such, except you can't sell your collection of make-belief cards. Yet -- the pricing is similar to a game where your goods is resellable.
(If your time isn't worth anything; if you think the time cost of free to play is worthwhile, may the gods have mercy on your soul.)

I'm not going to quote my previous comment (or replies) as it'll be huge! I just want to re-iterate a point, as my last comment got a lot of 'hate'. By Design, this Brawl is not for everyone; its for the 5% (or so) that want to risk their money/coins to test their skill in a 'tournament-like' environment. I got a lot of negativity for mentioning it could be a tournament mode, honestly I would hate this style of tournament mode, that being said; its not aimed at me. (I'm more a casual [rank 5] player). What I do stand by though is this brawl is Tournament-like, it has the style of a tournament.

I'm not going to join the rest of you and give the developers hate fr something new and interesting for the hard-core fanbase. I can't wait to see the streams/videos that come from this.

This whole thing is a goldsink just before the announcement of a new expansion.  So you pay 1000 Gold now or maybe more and afterwards pay money for new expansion cardpacks. 

I Don't Fall for it. As I priest player I don't see any chance either. 

Quote from Radiodragon777 >>

Quote from TuphTuph>>

As much as it's gambling, it teaches children (and many other older players) to take risks sometimes for some added value. It is gambling after all, but nobody forces you to play it. That's how it works.

Same is with Rank 6 and Rank 5 rewards. Just one star below and you won't get a golden epic.

This is a person who does not understand how gambling works.  The house is not out to teach lessons, and the house is not your friend.  Blizzard wants your money.  Remember the auction house from Diablo?  Yeah that whole hot mess that required people to play online even in single player and then eventually got canned when it stopped being profitable?  Remember?  Blizzard wants your money people, yes it makes some really good games, but at the end of the day it wants your money.  

Quote from Avery_W >>

So in one game of a difference, you get 34 packs, 620 dust, 620 gold and a golden legendary. That's like... a lot of money. I'm not sure how much difference that is in the US, but in Canada that's like 70 or 80 bucks.

Lol this is not a tavern brawl. It is a constructed "tournament style" heroic brawl, just like standard ladder. It is more like arena where you gonna have to win 12 times or 3 losses and will be rewarded based on the wins you have. There are no restrictions at all, you can put whatever you want into your deck

Hearthstone needed a good gold-sink.

Yeah, I understand how gambling works. And it does teach people indirectly. Those who never learn continue gambling and mostly lose. Those who learn may take some value out of it and then stop.

And of course Blizzard wants money, that's the silly part.

Quote from Doomedspeed >>

I'm not going to quote my previous comment (or replies) as it'll be huge! I just want to re-iterate a point, as my last comment got a lot of 'hate'. By Design, this Brawl is not for everyone; its for the 5% (or so) that want to risk their money/coins to test their skill in a 'tournament-like' environment. I got a lot of negativity for mentioning it could be a tournament mode, honestly I would hate this style of tournament mode, that being said; its not aimed at me. (I'm more a casual [rank 5] player). What I do stand by though is this brawl is Tournament-like, it has the style of a tournament.

I'm not going to join the rest of you and give the developers hate fr something new and interesting for the hard-core fanbase. I can't wait to see the streams/videos that come from this.

People complaining about not getting free stuff lol. I mean at least this is for every country on the whole world and not just for 7 countries just like Tyrande!!! There is justice on this world

Its just weird because every tournament I've gone to for other games has promo stuff for everyone and then the big prize for top players. It lets you feel good about playing in a tournament even if you think you're going to be shite.  "Hey I lost, but at least I got a card back"

Running it like a poker tournament is weird, it discourages a lot of people from even trying it. Which of course makes the competition even harsher.

TL;DR - I'm not good enough to get value on my ten bucks so I won't bother with a new game mode

Please note that this mode is using constructed deck using standard rule. not the special rules in weekly tavern brawl

this is just stupid gambling. everyone will play same deck, hope have good draw and or vs  good match up deck. you need 7 win to break even which mean u better go get 10 pack and guarantee 400 dust if u really unlucky.

ofc , you are rich player u can spend as you wan but no way for f2p player

Quote from SleepTurtle >>

Please note that this mode is using constructed deck using standard rule. not the special rules in weekly tavern brawl

 

this is just stupid gambling. everyone will play same deck, hope have good draw and or vs  good match up deck. you need 7 win to break even which mean u better go get 10 pack and guarantee 400 dust if u really unlucky.

ofc , you are rich player u can spend as you wan but no way for f2p player

The problem here, like everything with Hearthstone is that people will shit post about it without knowing nearly enough and people will take these shit posts as gospel.

Its not gambling. Even in a Mid Shaman mirror a good player can have a high win rate against a bad one.

If you have never attained an 80% win rate on ladder at high ranks over the course of 14+ games then you should stay away from this Brawl.

Honestly, if you know Xixo you should know he's going to be getting those 12 wins over and over again if he wants to. Is that gambling? No.

I will gamble because I have only a small chance of hitting one of my win streaks, but look: 

Its not roulette. You don't have nowhere near 80% in roulette (those are not the mirror match up stats).

Think about the free pack that people would normally get this week from tavern brawl (and fun/quest completion for others).... now put in a 1000 gold entry fee and an obvious cash grab/gamble instead. A lot of F2P players will be mad that they are missing a free pack and relatively excluded from this mode, unless they've been saving for the next expansion and happen to have 1000 gold stashed up.... which is fairly rare. 

Quote from Avery_W >>

You need to get basically get 6 wins to get your money back.

So you have to be really lucky. You might say "Just don't play it if you aren't good" but someone is going to get under 6 wins and by someone, I mean like... the majority of people. So now you have a bunch of these people that are really salty, including these people that get 1 win, and basically payed 10 bucks for a pack. Then there's going to be the people that get 11 wins. How is that bad, you might ask? Well.. Here's the difference of 11 and 12 wins.

11 wins: 16 packs, 480 dust, 480 gold and 2 golden legendaries

12 wins: 50 packs, 1100 dust, 1100 gold and 3 golden legendaries

So in one game of a difference, you get 34 packs, 620 dust, 620 gold and a golden legendary. That's like... a lot of money. I'm not sure how much difference that is in the US, but in Canada that's like 70 or 80 bucks. 

So 70 or 80 bucks decided by 1 game. Remind you of something? Yes, gambling. Are

Are you ready to start gambling on a kid's card game?

 

10 bucks is an hour of work... if you want to give it a shot do it...if you don't want to then don't. If you are laddering right now and you have a good winrate or at least you are not going backwards then that means your deck as some strength in it why not just try.

I'll go all in you kidding me? with a little luck I'll get a freaking pirate treasure and finally build the collection I need. Also, is a one chance. is not like all weeks are going to be like this

Gold Entry Analysis

Assuming a global 50% winrate, the average Heroic Brawl result will be: 4.37 packs, 107 dust and gold, 0.04 golden legendaries. So you're basically trading 444 Gold for about 167 Dust (assuming golden legendaries are dusted) to 344 Dust (assuming golden legendaries would be crafted otherwise). That's 37.6-77.5 Dust per 100 Gold.

So basically, Heroic Brawl has an appealing prize structure if you want Golden Legendaries, and an unappealing prize structure if you don't... unless you're more skilled that the average Heroic Brawler. Unfortunately, these skilled players are going to drive out unskilled players who want Golden Legendaries almost completely, then once it's skilled players vs skilled players, winrates will suffer, driving out many skilled players. In the end, I believe Heroic Brawl will maintain a niche audience, but a very narrow one: players who are both very skilled (within the context of the Brawl) AND drool over Golden Legendaries. AND enjoy Tavern Brawl. I worry that this might be such an exclusive demographic that virtually no one qualifies.

Real Money Entry Analysis

$10 is roughly the equivalent of 7 packs (not 10, as 1000 Gold is). This means that instead of trading 444 Gold for 167-344 Dust, players are trading 1.44 packs for 167-344 Dust. That's a great deal, actually. If you're considering throwing real money at the game and you don't like Arena, Heroic Brawl is a better option than simply buying packs straight-up. This might be less true in Brawls where skill is a major factor, but just wait until a week with a fairly random, low-skill-intensity Brawl and get your gamble on.

TL;DR: If you're neither paying real money to enter nor desire Golden Legendaries, stay the fuck away.

I have plenty of gold laying around.  I payed hard cash when the game first came out and once or twice more for a few expansions, but realized it wasnt worth it.  I just save my gold, buy the occasional packs or do an arena run.  I have 8k gold saved up and that was after i purchased Karazhan with gold.

I understand that Blizzard wants a gold eating mode for people like me (and other streamers like Kripp).  I would take part in this tournament and sink my gold into it for fun, but there are 2 reasons I wont.  Although if they changed how the reward structure works, I would reconsider.

So Blizzard, listen up.  You wont get my gold unless the following changes are made...

1.  For this Brawl, offer a card back.  Even if its a one time only thing.  For the first Heroic Brawl.  Everyone whom enters gets the card back.  Simple as that.

2.  Allow the pack rewards to be chosen from any set.  i dont want WOTOG packs anymore.  I would prefer some of the older sets to complete my collection.

3.  Offer other rewards that are non standard.  For example, how about a hero portrait?  I dont have the warrior one yet, but with 12 wins, instead of the golden legendaries, I get to choose a hero portrait instead.

Most high level players already have most or all of the cards they need.  The rewards here doesnt do much to help them out.  Allowing choices for 12 wins or anything above 7 wins would encourage me to try.

Most of my arena runs these days ends around 7 wins.  I have a feeling if I did this Heroic Tavern Brawl, it would be more like 5 wins.  Not really interested in that at all.  Thanks, but no thanks Blizzard.