Hearthpwn

I recently posted in Reddit about my take on the role of RNG in tournament play.

Constructive comments are highly aprreciated.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/4z0t9l/the_role_of_rng_in_competitive_tournament/

Thanks all

The concept is interesting: 2 teams of 2 players, 2 decks, being swapped between the teams in one match, and a point system that goes beyond the mere outcome of the game.

However, I think you're trying too hard to suppress the inherent RNG aspect of the game. When you say "All random events are reproduced", what does that even mean? Maybe it makes sense when it comes to summoning a random minion, but in general, you cannot do that because this is a chaotic game. Also, one random outcome might be good in a situation and bad in another one.

Another point is that it creates a whole different game. A player might have lethal, but decides instead to heal in order to gain more points for this match, so you drift away from the original game.

Your points all have merit. Such actions could be countered in the design of the scoring system. It can never be decided except after long playtesting.

One thing though, I think that in tournamnets with big money rewards RNG should be suppressed :)

To start, this removes deck building as a skill. While that may be true in lower ranks of ladder, deck building and selection is part of the higher echelons of play. Something like Duplicate Bridge isn't going to work in CCG's. Trying to get it work with a fiddly point system is simply going to lead to abuse. Maybe I want to bring a deck that only I knows how to play to completely screw over the other team?

Then, how do you actually have both player have the same RNG? Perhaps one player decided to risk a knife juggle one game, and not in another. The difference in both game means that the game states gets drifted further and further apart, and by the point the game ends, there's little relations of both games to each other. A "lucky" in 1 game is "unlucky" in the other, so essentially you still have the kind of RNG factors you see right now.

Heck, even if the cards have zero RNG and both decks are stacked the same, the RNG of the draws is just as relevant. Say you got your opponent low and your choice is to go face for a potential 2 turn lethal with the right draws, or play it safe for the long game. Then, say that it's mathematically better to play it safe, but 1 guy decides to risk it anyways. He was rewarded the correct draw, and the guy that played it safe lost. Does it mean that the guy who played the mathematically inferior move is more skilled? Unless, you want both players to be able to see into the order of both decks as well......

Your scoring system is weird too. The whole point of Hearthstone is to win the game, not "win the game with 30 health", and a whole bunch of other conditions. That's the kind of reasoning you see with beginners, and introducing that to a tournament is a very bad idea.

Even worse still, the fact that this format pushes "skill intensive" instead of powerful decks means that the tournament format drifts even further than the games the viewers are playing. This will not sit well with most audiences, which means less sponsor money, and less dollars for the pros.

More importantly, I think this doesn't get to the heart of the problem: Single/double elimination. Being paired with someone that has a favoured line up compared to you in the early stages of a tournament is worse than any RNG effect that could occur at any point in the game. MTG have this problem, and still they embraced it. They used Swiss to reduce the RNG of matchmaking at the first stages of the tournament, but when it comes to the top 8, they don't try to suppress the RNG at all.

Thank you for your constructive feedback.

I do not want to remove he effect of deckbuilding, just minimize it.both as a spectator and player, I have no interest to watch or play against aggro shamans and dragon warriors as well as secret paladins of the past.

Abue of the point system is definately a valid point. This can only be countered with enough experience with the system and suggestions from the community as well as playtesting.

Your third point ist totally true. I want to encourage seldom used decks. This would add a lot of variance to the game. Also it is a pity that a skill intensive rogue deck has no chance because of being smorced too quickly. Point is that being smorced too quickly would not matter any more. A problem would be that a beginner pair would bring an unplayable deck to the tournament (for example all minions above 6 mana)  rying to negate any skill difference. But the skill diference would still be present as they have to pilot the opponnts deck also.

Your next point is also totally valid that games will swing apart. This is actually a wanted side effect. Midrange hunter mirror both players will play their minions on curve producing very similar games. But most games will actually drift apart resulting in different outcomes. Point is the reason they drifted apart is a player decision, not a random juggle.

I disagree with your next point. Actually counting the recources adds a new level of complexity to the game. how to reach the win with the least amount of face damage, least amount of cards and least number of turns, alternatively. A player may decide that he already lost the game, so he tanks up and loses using the minimum recources, while in the same situation another player will decide to play for his outs and actually finds thm and produces a swing,

Your next point is also very valid.

As to your final point. It is the choice of the community to embrace RNG or not. I am essentially trying to address the points that bothered me the most about HS and am trying to apply a long known and well established idea in another skill intensive game.

Finally the whole point of my post is to try to find out what the community thinks about such a massive change in the format. So thank you again for your post.

Sounds like you should watch duplicate bridge.

Nto just watched. A long time ago I was a world class player, but that was a long time ago lol.

The problem is that Hearthstone is much more like MTG and poker, and as far as I know, duplicate doesn't fly at all in those games neither.

More importantly, Blizzard isn't going to implement that suggestion, seeing that they haven't even implemented the widely requested replay system. So any attempt to change the tournament structure that way is dead on arrival.

I am no poker player :)