Hearthpwn

Quote from Ehronatha >>

It's really fishy that they increased the cost of Purify because people weren't using as it was intended.  If you make a borderline bad card, it's actually *good* that it's flexible so that it can see general play.  It's almost like they think that Power Word: Shield is flagrantly OP.  Do they not get that in most cases, silencing his own minion is a cost for a priest, not a benefit?  Do they not realize that people play Power Word: Shield on their opponent's minions if they don't have any of their own, thus making Purify an inferior card draw alternative?  

Blizzard: just buff the card before its release.  Oh, and make it rare.  I know it's painful, but it's the right thing to do.      

Quote from Exacerberus >>

What's worse about this apologetic video is that it implies they wanna put more cards in future expansions to support Purify, which would translate into introducing more shitty Priest cards in future sets to support a Purify archetype, cards that would most likely be unplayable in any other Priest list and further dilute the class quality.
By not admitting the completely fked up and not remaking the card already they're just gonna cause a snowballing avalanche of shit.

Most laughable moment in Brode's video:

"... we're going to continue to push Priest... "

CONTINUE? PUSH PRIEST WHERE? DOWN THE TOILET?

Yes, Purify was a terrible card printed at the wrong time.  But those other two cards were bad as well and did nothing to help Priest.

Quote from Belzzzz >>

Quote from iandakar >>

 They didn't just admit the card is overcosted.  They admit that the card is bad.  THey don't make cards like Majordomo or boogymonster with the belief that it'll be effective and just messed up.  They are Jhonny cards: cards that are bad but allow someone to abuse it in some way such as Majordomo into Alex for basically a Jaraxxus with an 8 damage hero power.  Jhonnys love unconventional tricks like that.  

Purify was intended to be one of those cards.  That's WHY it's purposely made weak. Otherwise it would be a Spike card: a card with a clear strong purpose to create a strong deck.  Some cards are made for competition. Some for the lulz. Some for the challenge. 

THey also admitted that giving the worst class in the game a trolly challenge card when they desperately need Spikes was a very stupid idea.

Though I'll admit,  it would've been nice to see the card go Silence, then Taunt.  But that probably would've needed some major testing to avoid some nasty combo.

 

The problem is not the card in itself. Everyone is OK with trash cards. 

1. Bad timing
2. The abysmal state of Priest
3. Expectations of the community 
4. 1/3 of the revealed Priest cards are trash. (1/2 IMO)
5. Consequences of bad listening from Blizz 
6. Consequences of too long reactions from Blizz in the past (cf. Mysterious Challenger, Deathrattle Hunter, Patron Warrior etc.).
7. Consequences of giving a 477 an a 0 mana 5/5. The same treatment was unconsciously hoped for Priest.
8. Not understandable holes in the Priest class cards (2 and 3 drops).
9. Designing cards 1 year before implementing them.
10. etc. 

After the Old Gods, every class found room for good/OK decks. We were afraid Rogue would sink. It didn't. The only class that keeps licking its wounds after Standard format is Priest. 

 

1) sure. i agree on a bit unacceptable, but people here swear that they knew exactly which decks would be meta. i don't think them (or us) knew something like dragon priest would be top tier when the cards were released.

2) i don't think it's entirely about being playable. i think they just overnerfed silence in general for design space. too many cards they were releasing were too vulnerable to that effect. the card made much more sense as originally designed - silence any minion, but looks like they just wanted to get away from that in general. 

3) like how many months? that's what i was saying about it being pre-built before people were complaining. look at the party they threw for this release. it probably took a month just to plan, setup, cast/hire all the people in costume, etc. do i care about that in general? not at all, but by that point, karazhan must of been finished. add in playtesting, voiceovers, code, design... i assume this must of been in the works when lightbomb priest was still a thing and buffing shaman was still what the community was crying for. as for balance patches, i don't disagree that it would be great to see them more often, but i believe their stance is to do that very infrequently. oh well.

4) sure that all makes sense, and we were right on that prediction. at the same time, everyone called druid literally dead after the nerfs to combo druid. yogg-druid is upper tier, and i don't think the community predicted that well. maybe the devs did in playtesting? doubt it though. again you bring up the bigger issue. priest needs better cards and there are more fundamental issues with the class. i don't disagree. but if we are going to be pissed, it should be about all the cards and the class, but hating on purify seems to be the main thing these days. this is one card that will join many others in my collection that won't see a deck slot, like a lot of other cards in this set.

Quote from DMaster2 >>

Quote from mpresiv1 >>

1) sure. i agree on a bit unacceptable, but people here swear that they knew exactly which decks would be meta. i don't think them (or us) knew something like dragon priest would be top tier when the cards were released.

2) i don't think it's entirely about being playable. i think they just overnerfed silence in general for design space. too many cards they were releasing were too vulnerable to that effect. the card made much more sense as originally designed - silence any minion, but looks like they just wanted to get away from that in general. 

3) like how many months? that's what i was saying about it being pre-built before people were complaining. look at the party they threw for this release. it probably took a month just to plan, setup, cast/hire all the people in costume, etc. do i care about that in general? not at all, but by that point, karazhan must of been finished. add in playtesting, voiceovers, code, design... i assume this must of been in the works when lightbomb priest was still a thing and buffing shaman was still what the community was crying for. as for balance patches, i don't disagree that it would be great to see them more often, but i believe their stance is to do that very infrequently. oh well.

4) sure that all makes sense, and we were right on that prediction. at the same time, everyone called druid literally dead after the nerfs to combo druid. yogg-druid is upper tier, and i don't think the community predicted that well. maybe the devs did in playtesting? doubt it though. again you bring up the bigger issue. priest needs better cards and there are more fundamental issues with the class. i don't disagree. but if we are going to be pissed, it should be about all the cards and the class, but hating on purify seems to be the main thing these days. this is one card that will join many others in my collection that won't see a deck slot, like a lot of other cards in this set.

 2) Purify only silence your stuff. That means that even at 1 mana you need something on board you don't mind being silenced. Hence i think it wouldn't be that good even as a 1 mana cycle.

3) I know they do things in advance, but it wasn't unreasonable to switch purify with a spell from the next set (which they are working on i bet). You delay Purify to next set and print something playable asap. Spells have no need for voice actors so you could do it with less time available. And if you really feel the need to deliver purify, at least make it playable.

Quote from mpresiv1 >>

Quote from DMaster2 >>

Quote from mpresiv1 >>

 

3) true, this must be a major oversight as there has definitely got to be another completed spare priest card lying around the office. they probably just thought people would overlook it as simply a bad card, but with all the attention priest was getting from the community, it blew up in their face. the card is playable. it's just not competitive, which is what the community wants. i bet this card will see more play than a some other cards (bloodsail corsair, wisp, angry chicken etc.)  since it at least fits a niche in silence priest. some player will always experiment in casual or something.  and it will see about the same usage rate in top competition compared to much better cards like chillwind yeti and the majority of the adventure - practically zero.

again, there's a ton of hate spiraling because the community believes that blizzard's mission was to "fix priest." if it was, then it would look like they completely bombed. i don't think they were aware of the issue when they were developing this set. they obviously hear it loud and clear and if there aren't cards that boost priest in the next few sets, then i think it's time to hit the panic button. i doubt the next set makes priest upper tier either. it took them about 3 releases to fix shaman. hmm, it did somehow only take mysterious challenger to fix paladin before, so i guess it's possible.

1. Blizzard fundamentally failed to balance the evergreen set, leaving balance up to the ebb and flow of expansions.  They have resigned some classes to a baseline of dumpster status (Priest, Rogue, Shaman - yes, Shaman may be bad again as soon as next year) while Warrior has a core kit that allows it to competitively play literally every archetype competitively.
2. Blizzard is inconsistent in its judgment.  You cannot release consecutive expansions with Mysterious Challenger and Flamewreathed Faceless and then tell people Purify had to be 2-mana because people were just using it for cycle at 1-mana and expect them to believe that you care remotely about balance.  Similarly, combo decks have been nerfed into oblivion; but we're hearing nary a peep about the new Worgen deck, even though the opponent play experience is very similar and the deck can OTK you at 30 life from an empty board (note that I don't mind combo decks, but I do mind inconsistency in how determinations like this are made).
3. After powering-down some classic cards (Knife Juggler, Leper Gnome, etc.), they have continued to power creep new sets (hello Enchanted Raven and Menagerie Warden) while utterly failing to provide any adequate solutions.  Consider Darkshire Councilman.    There are exactly two cards in the game that can answer it on-curve (SW:P and Hex).  No weapon and no removal spell can take it out for the same cost or less, so it is essentially guaranteed to stick for at least one turn, most likely reaching 3-4+ damage and trading 2 for 1.  I love zoo.  It's my aggro deck of choice; but Councilman being a 1/5 instead of 1/4 was a colossal mistake.
4. And, of course, as we all know, Blizzard refuses to rebalance the game in all but the most dire circumstances, pushing them to release even more power creep cards to counter old ones.
5. Blizzard is consistently tone deaf with their audience.  The two most obvious examples are Brode's dogged insistence that "the counter for Secret Pally is out there, the community just has to discover it," along with this entire fiasco with Priest.  It all points logical people in one of two equally-bad directions:
   • They don't understand the game.
   • They understand the game but don't care about the community's reaction.

Rightly or wrongly, people had very high hopes for what Standard format was going to mean for the game; and unfortunately, Blizzard has failed to meet a lot of those expectations.  Fortunately for them, they have a massive install base and a much simpler interface than their competitors.

1) fantastic point, and this is more of what i agree with. not just one stupid card. 

2) agree somewhat, since i believe balance is much harder to achieve in general, so i just think they'd be put in a tough spot to be consistent umm... consistently. to your previous point, if they agreed that was the case, then every release should basically be stronger for those mentioned classes, and nothing for warrior. that's the problem with an unmodified core set. as for the bump to 2 mana, i don't think they were worried about the power of the card, just that it was more effective as a cantrip than for it's intended effect of silencing your own minion. sure it would be much better as a cycle, but i doubt it would still honestly be used, knowing they aren't going to generally be creating more combo deck pieces. i think they are slowly learning about their mistakes with charge, and probably have worgen deck on their radar. if it was tier 1, i feel like it would be nerfed as well. i don't have a problem with 30 damage from an empty board, if the player has to build a deck to put all the pieces together and survive all the rounds. this is much more fair than pre-nerf savage roar / FON for 14 dmg.

3) not sure if i agree here. before it was released, not everyone thought it was going to be that great overall, so the stats were decent. i hear your point about 1 card answers on curve, but it only works well in zoo, and shaman/warrior can build a better board to trade into it. unless your point was that, this is what holds other cards back since they can't deal with it. the card can be removed from zoolock as is, and it would still have a decent win rate. much better than priest at least lol

4) yes, sadly. i mean on one hand, you release amazing cards that push power creep, or you release mediocre cards, and no one needs to buy them. the same problem in all the collectible card games i play sadly.

5) well part of it is PR. it's better than admitting to us they don't know what they are doing. if they did that, we would all be arguing for a new team and that could easily spiral out of control. the new team might be worse and then the game would really take a hit. look how well diablo 3 did in the beginning. i think it's naive and ridiculous to think that blizzard isn't listening to the community's reaction, both from a profitability standpoint, and historically through forum moderators, beta testers, and ben brode himself having to make this ridiculous video.

i still like standard and it's intentions, and still like the option of going to wild if i wanted, which i wont. doesn't mean i care for the stale meta, but who knows if that's just the product of the format or a different issue entirely. i have hope that it can still be improved.

grr, every time i hit quote i still type in the wrong box. ugh

Quote from mpresiv1 >>

 

3) not sure if i agree here. before it was released, not everyone thought it was going to be that great overall, so the stats were decent. i hear your point about 1 card answers on curve, but it only works well in zoo, and shaman/warrior can build a better board to trade into it. unless your point was that, this is what holds other cards back since they can't deal with it. the card can be removed from zoolock as is, and it would still have a decent win rate. much better than priest at least lol

 

Quote from Moobearpig91 >>

What's your point? Add the 2-mana cost Purify to Deatlord, Fel Reaver or The Beast and you realize there is no tempo to gain from purifying any of those. Deathlord becomes a vanilla 5 mana 2/8, Fel Reaver a 7 mana 8/8 and The Beast a 8 mana 9/7. Not even close to be enough tempo in constructed and in arena those are average plays or even less than average.

Well, 4/5 for (2) + Overload: (1) or 7/7 for (4) + Overload: (1) would have both been pretty cool. I think 8/8 for (5) + Overload: (1) is also good enough.