To make casual truly casual, and not just the same decks in ranked mode, is very simple. No rewards. Doesn't count towards your quests, no gold for wins. It would be a true for fun mode.
But why should the players who play for fun get no rewards?
If you want a new game mode, great, suggest a new game mode, but no, Casual mode is fine and shouldn't be replaced by that new game mode.
Casual is dependent on Standard or Wild. There would be no change to the Standard and Wild "Casual" other than calling it by "Practice". IT STAYS THE SAME.
The only change is to have a REAL Casual mode outside Standard and Wild and be an area in and of itself outside the same crap you see in the other formats. It can have its own crap, which is fine.
Wait, so you want to rename Casual to Practice (btw that name is already used for Innkeeper), and then create a new game mode called Casual? That would just create unnecessary confusion. Why not keep Casual Casual and create a new game mode called Pauper?
So much confusion!!! lol. There is no confusing, put the fire out.
There is no casual, casual as it stands right now is just rank without ranks. All you see is ladder decks in casual. That's not casual, that's unranked ladder.
So? That still doesn't explain why Casual should be removed instead of just adding a new game mode.
Casual needs fixing, and I believe it could be done really easily, link the combined account level to what type of players you can face, just like with WoW's battlegrounds, there should be "level gaps" combined level 9 to 20, 21 to 50, etc etc. So you will face players with the same TIME/EXPERIENCE ration in the game as you do, doesn't matter if you have 5 hours a day or just a couple of games every day. and the ones that want to playtest high level cards will face only people that have commited the same time to get similar level cards. NOW, you will see from time to time the "wallet warrior" that just bought into HS and is level 20 but has a ton of cards, he will level up quickly anyway so he will face the real level gap he has to and at least he won't be able to go back and push on non-wallet players.
Now THIS I can get behind. A mode where you will fight against folks who put in a similar time committment to you with some weight to your win rates. Thus you don't immediately get dumped against folks like me because you won a few gams against new players. Having the tiers explicitly shown will help give a mentality that you are facing folks similar to you. And yes, it will mean that the wallet warriors 1 week in will quickly brush past you and into my territory.
Beats eliminating all epics/legendaries. Not only will that ruin balance by making every deck an aggro/face deck (even more so than ranked) but it also means once said new player actually gets their first epic/legendary then they'll have to go into the regular modes just to use it.
It's less about the raw number of rarities that you have and A LOT more on your experience with the game along with your overall collection. F2P mage with Rag wielded by a novice is FAR less dangerous than a fully formed Miracle Rogue wielded by a professional.
Casual needs no fix at all, because of reasons already mentioned by others (testing purposes first of all).
Also, if what we are talking about here is a mode that allows new and "poor" players to play without getting overwhelmed by expensive cards, Classic set needs to be banned as well: Classic legendaries and epics look as overwhelming and expensive as those from new sets, in the eyes of the new player.
You should keep only Basic Cards if the purpose is a newbie-friendly environment. And create a new game mode for that.
Anyway, first principle of engineering: don't fix what works fine already...
You don't mind seeing ladder decks in casual. I do. And others do as well. Like I said in the paragraph before, all you see in casual for the most part is ladder decks. The option I'm referring to, while it benefits F2P players, also benefits ALL other players that would like to have a break from ladder decks and its FotM.
Your post did not bring much of an argument... it's not that you mind and I don't.
You are the one who wants to modify something that, according to your own poll, is ok as it is. So you should provide why, and you just failed so far (I understand your reasons, but not your solution). If you modify Casual as you suggested, the majority of players in your poll would not benefit from it, at all. Actually, you would ruin Casual mode because then we could not genuinely test stuff anymore, out of ladder.
The point of Casual is playing in a "real" environment, while losing nothing in the worst case, and gaining something (gold/quests) in the best case. Trying your own cards and deck recipes in the process. Most of us (again, cf. poll) would not play Casual if it wasn't exactly that way.
If you are suggesting a new game mode with reduced card sets, call it Classic Mode or whatever, fine (because then you would not alter anything, just add something).
Otherwise the arguments for modification of existing Casual are so far insufficient and your own poll is against you.
Why bring up that "my own poll is against me"? Lol, like, what is that supposed to mean? It's a poll, asking people their opinion about casual mode - not about me, lol. It's funny that you bring it up that way thou, lol.
Also, did you take the time to read through the thread?
Casual as it stands right now - WOULD NOT CHANGE AT ALL but would only have a different name. THAT'S IT.
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Great art can never be created without great suffering.
You don't necessarily see ladder decks even because it superficially looks that way. You don't know if that tempo mage is testing 2 summoning stones that he never drew.
Still tempo mage, is it not? EleGiggle
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Great art can never be created without great suffering.
There is no way to fix casual it offers only one thing and fails at it because some players who do not require a mode specialized for that one thing play there anyway, fixing this would require an infrastructure so complicated that it would inconvenience people greatly. I also say just play ranked, if you aren't so competitive about it you can just enjoy it without the anger that many people have.
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Just fill your deck with one drops, that is creative deck design, right?
First of all, I don't think the Pauper mode being described would be very fun long term. I think a Tavern Brawl where Rares/Epics/Legendaries are forbidden would be really cool though.
I really believe any problems with casual can be solved by improving the matchmaking algorithm. For every legend player testing a crazy good deck, there should be another legend player to match them up with. Every aggro-wielding gold farmer, should get matched up against someone similar as well. Every noob trying to make his best deck with a beginners collection should be matched against someone with a similarly small collection.
I think casual can actually be all things to all people because you can separate the weak vulnerable players and fun silly decks from those that are just there for gold and those that seemingly shouldn't even be playing casual in the first place.
Many others including myself have been suggesting casual be basic and classic cards for quite some time now. It adds a lot to the new player experience to be able to do quests in play mode while not having to compete against players with good decks. It also sounds like a fun idea even for seasoned players.
And wiz can do this by simply using the account combined level as a brackets system like in WoW's battleground, is really that easy, the more you play the higher level your classes are and the bigger your collection gets, using the level will pair you with players of the closest skill level possible without letting you steam-roll novice players learning the game in casual so all newbies will face other newbies and all deck testers will face other deck testers.
The only problem (besides wallet warriors wich will level up quickly anyway getting into the bracket they should be) is when you're so skilled in an specific class or the game overall (it happened to me with the druid, I played too much druid and all the other classes stayed at low levels, pairing me with higher overall skilled players with bigger collections than mine when I had to level up my other classes) that you reach a high rank and start facing impossible opponents, but there's a system for that already, if you keep losing you get lowered in a hidden rank inside casual and you start facing other players with low win/loss ratios, so most players facing this "situation" will understand.
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There is nothing left if you can not has the right to bear your arms - werebear 2016-eternity campaign
logs-in into hearthstone, play some casual, find season 2's freeze mage everywhere, freakin' onyxia/antonidas dude. Really, the expert (classic) set has some of the most broken cards in hearthstone history (as of now).
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There is nothing left if you can not has the right to bear your arms - werebear 2016-eternity campaign
So from what I gather, you're suggesting changing renaming Casual mode to Practice mode, and introducing an entirely new mode where you can only play with Basic and Classic cards, called Casual. This is to combat the perceived problem that Casual isn't truly 'casual' and you can't have fun decks because people play ranked decks there for practice. I have... a couple of issues with this:
1) The newly proposed casual mode sounds hella boring. If it's always just Basic and Classic cards, it will never change. There will be no opportunity to try fun new decks, because you can't use any of the fun new cards.
2) So everyone who wants to try fun decks will be forced to the Practice modes, where they'll run into people practicing for Ranked. Absolutely nothing will change.
Basically, your proposed fix for the 'problem' (which I don't view as a problem, but w/e) doesn't actually solve the problem, it just adds an incredibly boring gamemode to the game that hardly anyone will play.
Pauper is a cool format for custom games (just like two-headed dragon or block formats), but is a horrendous default format. I'm not sure people who believe Casual is broken have played something like a MOBA or unrated PvP in an MMO, but it serves exactly the same purpose; emulate ranked play without ever really assigning a rank.
Now that's not to say you can't bring fun decks there or shouldn't (in LoL I'm the guy who creates terrible builds because I know I'm not impacting anyone's ELO if it really truly sucks like Attack Speed Nautilus), but you also can't really blame anyone for wanting to play a Tier 1 deck in a low stress environment.
Now I think a custom mode lobby would be really cool and could implement stuff like Pauper, and ultimately I think that's what would need to happen for people to be able to walk into a game mode with expectations of their opponents not using mainstream decks.
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Many others including myself have been suggesting casual be basic and classic cards for quite some time now. It adds a lot to the new player experience to be able to do quests in play mode while not having to compete against players with good decks. It also sounds like a fun idea even for seasoned players.
It sounds horrible, actually. Any format that doesn't get new cards once in a while stagnates and dies out.
This is exactly Goat Control. Everyone claims its the pinnacle of Yugioh, when it's nothing of the sort. And before some guy jumps on me and claims that Goat Control is still being innovated, it's because the playerbase of Goat Control is so small that there are very few deck ideas being tried out at any time. Putting that into Hearthstone guarantees it gets figured out within the month.
Casual as it stands right now - WOULD NOT CHANGE AT ALL but would only have a different name. THAT'S IT.
But why? Casual isn't part of the problem, why bring it up at all? Why not just implement the new game mode?
It has been already answered, are you trolling?
No, it has not been. There have only been answers to why we need the Pauper mode, and even that is debatable whether those are good answers, but there has been no answer to why Casual mode should be changed.
Edit: also please point out the part of my comments with circular reasoning.
Something else, people are complaining about others using mainstream decks in Casual. There will probably always be people netdecking in Casual. That doesn't mean they're that good with the deck. Maybe the reason why they're in Casual is because they don't play the deck very well and they're not a good enough player for Ranked. Of course there will always be people just farming new players in Casual, that's just gonna happen, but there's also plenty of people who are just really bad at the game who think netdecking is the answer and fail, miserably.
So from what I gather, you're suggesting changing renaming Casual mode to Practice mode, and introducing an entirely new mode where you can only play with Basic and Classic cards, called Casual. This is to combat the perceived problem that Casual isn't truly 'casual' and you can't have fun decks because people play ranked decks there for practice. I have... a couple of issues with this:
1) The newly proposed casual mode sounds hella boring. If it's always just Basic and Classic cards, it will never change. There will be no opportunity to try fun new decks, because you can't use any of the fun new cards.
2) So everyone who wants to try fun decks will be forced to the Practice modes, where they'll run into people practicing for Ranked. Absolutely nothing will change.
Basically, your proposed fix for the 'problem' (which I don't view as a problem, but w/e) doesn't actually solve the problem, it just adds an incredibly boring gamemode to the game that hardly anyone will play.
You are free to play practice which is what casual is now. You don't have to play the new format. The problem is that there is options like the one I'm presenting for f2p players or new players trying to get into the game and learn the game mechanics without running into gold farmers or experienced players with expensive decks or just people playing ladder decks in casual for "practice".
You cannot tell whether or not barely anyone will play the format. If you can, please PM the next winning lottery tickets!
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Great art can never be created without great suffering.
Casual as it stands right now - WOULD NOT CHANGE AT ALL but would only have a different name. THAT'S IT.
But why? Casual isn't part of the problem, why bring it up at all? Why not just implement the new game mode?
It has been already answered, are you trolling?
No, it has not been. There have only been answers to why we need the Pauper mode, and even that is debatable whether those are good answers, but there has been no answer to why Casual mode should be changed.
Edit: also please point out the part of my comments with circular reasoning.
Other readers have been able to see the answers. I suggest you go through the thread again to find them. It is unfair for you to ask me to do that for you.
You are coming off as trying to troll me, so I trolled with circular reason. At least I'm being upfront about it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Great art can never be created without great suffering.
So from what I gather, you're suggesting changing renaming Casual mode to Practice mode, and introducing an entirely new mode where you can only play with Basic and Classic cards, called Casual. This is to combat the perceived problem that Casual isn't truly 'casual' and you can't have fun decks because people play ranked decks there for practice. I have... a couple of issues with this:
1) The newly proposed casual mode sounds hella boring. If it's always just Basic and Classic cards, it will never change. There will be no opportunity to try fun new decks, because you can't use any of the fun new cards.
2) So everyone who wants to try fun decks will be forced to the Practice modes, where they'll run into people practicing for Ranked. Absolutely nothing will change.
Basically, your proposed fix for the 'problem' (which I don't view as a problem, but w/e) doesn't actually solve the problem, it just adds an incredibly boring gamemode to the game that hardly anyone will play.
You are free to play practice which is what casual is now. You don't have to play the new format. The problem is that there is options like the one I'm presenting for f2p players or new players trying to get into the game and learn the game mechanics without running into gold farmers or experienced players with expensive decks or just people playing ladder decks in casual for "practice".
You cannot tell whether or not barely anyone will play the format. If you can, please PM the next winning lottery tickets!
I don't need to be a seer to tell you that a gamemode which will never innovate will be incredibly boring. There wouldn't even be a period of experimentation - for the most part, people could just look up the metagame before Naxxramas was released and copy and paste a deck from there.
You haven't provided anything that 'fixes' casual mode. You've suggested a gamemode which is both stagnant and rewardless, and so is unappealing to older players and new players alike.
I honestly don't see any reason that this gamemode would be a worthwhile thing. Suggesting that it would be good for F2P players is laughable, because it has been shown many times that F2P players are perfectly capable of competing successfully on ladder, so why would they play in a rewardless format when they could get ladder rewards? And newer players would have nothing to gain from it, because they wouldn't interact with any of the cards they would get from Arena runs, and would have no idea how to actually play the game in its current state - they'd have to learn the game all over again when they moved on from it, so any learning they did there would be worthless.
Now THIS I can get behind. A mode where you will fight against folks who put in a similar time committment to you with some weight to your win rates. Thus you don't immediately get dumped against folks like me because you won a few gams against new players. Having the tiers explicitly shown will help give a mentality that you are facing folks similar to you. And yes, it will mean that the wallet warriors 1 week in will quickly brush past you and into my territory.
Beats eliminating all epics/legendaries. Not only will that ruin balance by making every deck an aggro/face deck (even more so than ranked) but it also means once said new player actually gets their first epic/legendary then they'll have to go into the regular modes just to use it.
It's less about the raw number of rarities that you have and A LOT more on your experience with the game along with your overall collection. F2P mage with Rag wielded by a novice is FAR less dangerous than a fully formed Miracle Rogue wielded by a professional.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Great art can never be created without great suffering.
Great art can never be created without great suffering.
Great post, thank you!
Great art can never be created without great suffering.
There is no way to fix casual it offers only one thing and fails at it because some players who do not require a mode specialized for that one thing play there anyway, fixing this would require an infrastructure so complicated that it would inconvenience people greatly. I also say just play ranked, if you aren't so competitive about it you can just enjoy it without the anger that many people have.
Just fill your deck with one drops, that is creative deck design, right?
Great art can never be created without great suffering.
First of all, I don't think the Pauper mode being described would be very fun long term. I think a Tavern Brawl where Rares/Epics/Legendaries are forbidden would be really cool though.
I really believe any problems with casual can be solved by improving the matchmaking algorithm. For every legend player testing a crazy good deck, there should be another legend player to match them up with. Every aggro-wielding gold farmer, should get matched up against someone similar as well. Every noob trying to make his best deck with a beginners collection should be matched against someone with a similarly small collection.
I think casual can actually be all things to all people because you can separate the weak vulnerable players and fun silly decks from those that are just there for gold and those that seemingly shouldn't even be playing casual in the first place.
Many others including myself have been suggesting casual be basic and classic cards for quite some time now. It adds a lot to the new player experience to be able to do quests in play mode while not having to compete against players with good decks. It also sounds like a fun idea even for seasoned players.
And wiz can do this by simply using the account combined level as a brackets system like in WoW's battleground, is really that easy, the more you play the higher level your classes are and the bigger your collection gets, using the level will pair you with players of the closest skill level possible without letting you steam-roll novice players learning the game in casual so all newbies will face other newbies and all deck testers will face other deck testers.
The only problem (besides wallet warriors wich will level up quickly anyway getting into the bracket they should be) is when you're so skilled in an specific class or the game overall (it happened to me with the druid, I played too much druid and all the other classes stayed at low levels, pairing me with higher overall skilled players with bigger collections than mine when I had to level up my other classes) that you reach a high rank and start facing impossible opponents, but there's a system for that already, if you keep losing you get lowered in a hidden rank inside casual and you start facing other players with low win/loss ratios, so most players facing this "situation" will understand.
There is nothing left if you can not has the right to bear your arms - werebear 2016-eternity campaign
logs-in into hearthstone, play some casual, find season 2's freeze mage everywhere, freakin' onyxia/antonidas dude. Really, the expert (classic) set has some of the most broken cards in hearthstone history (as of now).
There is nothing left if you can not has the right to bear your arms - werebear 2016-eternity campaign
So from what I gather, you're suggesting changing renaming Casual mode to Practice mode, and introducing an entirely new mode where you can only play with Basic and Classic cards, called Casual. This is to combat the perceived problem that Casual isn't truly 'casual' and you can't have fun decks because people play ranked decks there for practice. I have... a couple of issues with this:
1) The newly proposed casual mode sounds hella boring. If it's always just Basic and Classic cards, it will never change. There will be no opportunity to try fun new decks, because you can't use any of the fun new cards.
2) So everyone who wants to try fun decks will be forced to the Practice modes, where they'll run into people practicing for Ranked. Absolutely nothing will change.
Basically, your proposed fix for the 'problem' (which I don't view as a problem, but w/e) doesn't actually solve the problem, it just adds an incredibly boring gamemode to the game that hardly anyone will play.
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!
Pauper is a cool format for custom games (just like two-headed dragon or block formats), but is a horrendous default format. I'm not sure people who believe Casual is broken have played something like a MOBA or unrated PvP in an MMO, but it serves exactly the same purpose; emulate ranked play without ever really assigning a rank.
Now that's not to say you can't bring fun decks there or shouldn't (in LoL I'm the guy who creates terrible builds because I know I'm not impacting anyone's ELO if it really truly sucks like Attack Speed Nautilus), but you also can't really blame anyone for wanting to play a Tier 1 deck in a low stress environment.
Now I think a custom mode lobby would be really cool and could implement stuff like Pauper, and ultimately I think that's what would need to happen for people to be able to walk into a game mode with expectations of their opponents not using mainstream decks.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Something else, people are complaining about others using mainstream decks in Casual. There will probably always be people netdecking in Casual. That doesn't mean they're that good with the deck. Maybe the reason why they're in Casual is because they don't play the deck very well and they're not a good enough player for Ranked. Of course there will always be people just farming new players in Casual, that's just gonna happen, but there's also plenty of people who are just really bad at the game who think netdecking is the answer and fail, miserably.
Great art can never be created without great suffering.
Great art can never be created without great suffering.
You haven't provided anything that 'fixes' casual mode. You've suggested a gamemode which is both stagnant and rewardless, and so is unappealing to older players and new players alike.
I honestly don't see any reason that this gamemode would be a worthwhile thing. Suggesting that it would be good for F2P players is laughable, because it has been shown many times that F2P players are perfectly capable of competing successfully on ladder, so why would they play in a rewardless format when they could get ladder rewards? And newer players would have nothing to gain from it, because they wouldn't interact with any of the cards they would get from Arena runs, and would have no idea how to actually play the game in its current state - they'd have to learn the game all over again when they moved on from it, so any learning they did there would be worthless.
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!