Interesting stuff mate...I do think it sucks that a class has a 50 50 chance to be at such a massive disadvantage even before the match has begun though.
Thank you for pointing that it's a clear disadvantage NOT having a coin, and not massive advantage having it.
coin synergizes well with rogue what rogue decks try to do and their core mechanic "combo". it's the reason defias bandit and si:7 were nerfed a long time ago, so is this really surprising?
coin synergizes well with rogue what rogue decks try to do and their core mechanic "combo". it's the reason defias bandit and si:7 were nerfed a long time ago, so is this really surprising?
Even non-rogues classes have much better winrate with a coin, but it's just stupidly different for rogues. Some games I just want to concede right away if I don't get coin against fast decks.
Blizzard told us a lot about them getting rid of mechanics that are stopping game progression and balancing, but isn't coin exactly such mechanic?
coin synergizes well with rogue what rogue decks try to do and their core mechanic "combo". it's the reason defias bandit and si:7 were nerfed a long time ago, so is this really surprising?
Even non-rogues classes have much better winrate with a coin, but it's just stupidly different for rogues. Some games I just want to concede right away if I don't get coin against fast decks.
Blizzard told us a lot about them getting rid of mechanics that are stopping game progression and balancing, but isn't coin exactly such mechanic?
That's not true. Only rogue has picked up a better win rate with the coin,and it's only slightly. The 'coin=advantage' is a myth that's been discussed, proven wrong, and rediscussed since hearthstone's release if not earlier. Blizzard has worn themselves out constantly addressing this topic to the point where they don't even bother anymore. Those that tried to prove otherwise with hard data came back realizing that they actually won more going first, even when they were SURE they had a better time going second.
Going first is a MASSIVE advantage in this game, as it is in every other turn based game. The best the coin can do is offset it mostly while giving players a feeling of being powerful while wielding it. That feeling was specifically why Blizzard chose to go for the coin over other options that provided similar results.
It's like the whole "I keep seeing counter decks" and "RNG always works against me" mentalities. Hearthstone is full of mental tricks that trip up anyone who doesn't keep hard data for anything they do here.
But seriously, pull up the many, MANY threads on this one. Nothing has changed. If anything, I can see Rogue not being so needy over the coin anymore as they aren't quite as needy over Si:Agent and have far more ways of getting cheap spells, including a card that literally gives you a coin before the Auctioneer play. A person going first with a minion-created coin is going to do MUCH better than someone going second with a natural coin since the one going first gets to fire their auctioneer/conceal play earlier. But that's a maybe.
But even if rogue has a slight advantage going second, they are the ONLY class that does.
A person going first with a minion-created coin is going to do MUCH better than someone going second with a natural coin since the one going first gets to fire their auctioneer/conceal play earlier. But that's a maybe.
But even if rogue has a slight advantage going second, they are the ONLY class that does.
A person going first with a minion-created coin is going to do MUCH better than someone going second with a natural coin since the one going first gets to fire their auctioneer/conceal play earlier. But that's a maybe.
But even if rogue has a slight advantage going second, they are the ONLY class that does.
wrong
Nice that you ignored the rest of the post that disproved your post above and focused on only that statement Mr. Trump
What is there to even "wut" about there? haha, with coin on turn one you can have some pretty mean openers with combo cards like playing two buffed Bladed Cultists or a Defias Ringleader, using the coin to trigger the combo.
What is there to even "wut" about there? haha, with coin on turn one you can have some pretty mean openers with combo cards like playing two buffed Bladed Cultists or a Defias Ringleader, using the coin to trigger the combo.
I thin its a valid wut. The wut refers to the cards you mentioned who are played by no one in constructed.
What is there to even "wut" about there? haha, with coin on turn one you can have some pretty mean openers with combo cards like playing two buffed Bladed Cultists or a Defias Ringleader, using the coin to trigger the combo.
Both of which are bad cards and not worth the coin use.
People focus so much on the '2 mana on turn 1' play and forget that this game is all about Tempo more than anything else. And for pure tempo, going first on a 1 drop actually beats dropping 2 minions afterwards, since your opponent gets to not only act against you first but then drops a 2 drop. From there 2nd has to respond to 1st.
As far as Tempo mage, Tempo mage did like the coin. Thus mage WOULD'VE been arguably better going second...if Tempo Mage was still a strong deck. They aren't. Thus the benefit you get going second as a Tempo mage is offset by having an all-around weaker deck compared to the current set.
We can play theorycrafting all we want, but if the best argument is a massive lack of actual hard data to prove an issue with the coin after 3 years of this game being active and a set of card combos and decks that are distinctly out of the meta due to being too weak or not really fitting a strong enough deck to work then you're not really going to get any farther to convince a community who's already spent years debating the topic.
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One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
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So, here is my stats for this month (it's 70+ games).
Funny, isn't it?
Edit: I don't really get why mods added that ( --- ) stuff in the thread's name, but yeah, ok
It'd be so nice if they made it so Rogue hero power could trigger Combo. Would probably have to adjust the dagger to a 1/1 though.
Coin helps combos like Bladed Cultist x2 orDefias Ringleader on turn one.
Playing since 1 June 2014.
Review on Every Card: http://goo.gl/RTz806
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Thank you for the info. Also, Earth is round.
"Put your face in the light!" - Tirion Fordring
I'm pretty sure it's still flat where I'm from
coin synergizes well with rogue what rogue decks try to do and their core mechanic "combo". it's the reason defias bandit and si:7 were nerfed a long time ago, so is this really surprising?
yes and coin has been a problem for as long as hearthstone has been a thing.. blizzard doesn't care.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
well I guess that's your opinion and I suppose you're entitled to it.
Woeden#1173 - NA
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.