Hi, first I apologize for any mistakes I could make, since I'm not a native english speaker. I am a 2x Legend player, but I got legend before the launch of Standard. So, I decided to climb the ladder two more times, in Wild first, then in Standard, to make sure I am still able to get to the higher rank in both formats.
But... I failed to reach Legend in Wild last month in an unexpected way.
Indeed, I first decided to run a N'Zoth Secret Paladin, since I considered it, though boring, as one of the fastest and efficient decks out there. I climbed really fast, and even got a 20-0 win streak. When I got to Rank 5, my win rate logically decreased to about 70%, which was still very decent. Also, as usual, I started switching decks and teching, according to the decks I faced. I mainly played Secret Pal, Zoo and Tempo Warrior. I kept climbing, about one rank every 12 games, it was fine.
But, when I reached Rank 2, everything became incredibly tough. Really. Last times I got Legend, I have been used to face more skilled players but... This time I had the feeling I just couldn't win more than 50% of the time.
I got Rank 1 three times, then fall again to Rank 2 and, in the end, after 10 days of struggle, I couldn't make it to Legend.
So, I tried to put the salt apart and think about what happened :
-Was I not good enough ? Although it's the right answer for 99% of this kind of topic, I never faced such an issue the 2 times I succeeded and, although it was hard, I always used to keep at least a 60+% win rate.
-Is it because there is no "official meta snapshot" in Wild ? I noticed I played way better when I knew and played around the opponent's decklist, but it would have to be the same for my opponent (since most of my decklist contained tech and personal improvements).
-Has it really become harder to climb in Wild ? I don't know, and that's why I am asking for opinions. On the contrary, I thought that most of "semi-pro players" were going to play in Standard, making Wild easier than it was before the launch of Standard.
Also, I noticed two things, that I often read on Hearthpwn's forums, without really paying attention before I had the feeling it was also happening to me :
-I felt it much harder to climb when I played at night. (I play on EU) -When I switch deck, I seem to face completely different classes. (Face 6 Zoo in a row with Pala, switch to Warrior, face 2 Priest and 4 Warriors).
Maybe my feeling were biased since I was on the tilt, that's why I'm also asking neutral opinions about those popular beliefs.
What do you think about what happened ?
TL;DR : 2x Legend player, I failed to get Legend in Wild last month. Is it because Wild has become harder ? Is it because I mainly played at night ?..
The decklist of the Paladin I mainly used ? Sure. Here it is without any tech. Double Consecration helps a lot against Zoo and other Paladin while N'Zoth bring more late game steam against control.
I played quite some wild last season, although not as much as you. I think there are a number of issues:
1: There are not that many players playing wild, and a lot of them just dick around while playing more seriously in Standard.
2: Because of this, the top end of the wild players might be a LOT better than what you face up to rank 3.
3: Said players have already a very good idea about the meta and how to tech, and it is harder to learn the wild meta by reading forums and netdecking.
4: As your deck was THE cancer before WoG, people are even over-teching for it in wild, I saw a priest with Eater of Secrets AND Kezan Mystic. Some times, the meta just runs away from you, and the only thing to do is to change your deck, or even archetype.
I played quite some wild last season, although not as much as you. I think there are a number of issues:
1: There are not that many players playing wild, and a lot of them just dick around while playing more seriously in Standard.
2: Because of this, the top end of the wild players might be a LOT better than what you face up to rank 3.
3: Said players have already a very good idea about the meta and how to tech, and it is harder to learn the wild meta by reading forums and netdecking.
4: As your deck was THE cancer before WoG, people are even over-teching for it in wild, I saw a priest with Eater of Secrets AND Kezan Mystic. Some times, the meta just runs away from you, and the only thing to do is to change your deck, or even archetype.
That is very interesting, I never thought about your 1&2. That also explains how I wrecked everyone more easily than usual until Rank 5, then faced a lot of hard teching players. Also, your 3&4 make me remember of a hard anti-meta Hunter I faced at Rank 2 who was running 2ble explosive trap, 2ble secret eater, Kodo and so on.
I have this very feeling that playing in Wild decks which used to be popular is harshly punished, maybe that's why I didn't have much success with Pala and Zoo.
Don't really understand the "wisdom" of switching decks just because you are facing X deck on a given day. 5-6 games isn't enough of a sample to tell you anything about the current meta, which is unlikely to significantly change from day to day, as opposed to your random matchups which do. When you rank up or see a trend over several days/ a week, sure change it up, otherwise you are just chasing your tail. Commit to whatever deck you think works best for you and suck up the bad matchups.
I have alway been interested by hearthstones star system. It seems a bit cutthroat.
Stars are generated when any of the following happens:
A player at rank 6 or lower on an at least 2 game win streak wins a game.
A player at rank 20-0 or below loses a game.
A player at Legend rank is defeated by a non-legend player.
Stars are removed from supply when any of the following happens:
A rank 1 player is promoted to Legend rank.
A non-legend player is defeated by a Legend rank player.
You can’t go up in ranks without generated stars. When you win or lose a match normally above 20 one player gains a star and one player loses one, no stars generated so no change in the system. It takes 85 stars to get from 20 to legend. This means to generate enough stars for 1 player to reach legend the system need either 85 games played under level 20, this requires more new players, or you need 42.5 Win streaks. With less players there are less win streaks and less level 20 and under matches therefore less legend players.
I find both of your explanations very relevant as they explain both why it is harder to reach legend with a well-known deck and why I had this feeling of "facing same people again and again".
So, what would be the solution ? Play a deck which has a good match-ups against anti-meta decks (hence play an anti-anti-meta deck) ? And try to avoid playing secrets when S. Eater and Kezan are everywhere, letting the opponent struggle with his useless tech cards ?
I find both of your explanations very relevant as they explain both why it is harder to reach legend with a well-known deck and why I had this feeling of "facing same people again and again".
So, what would be the solution ? Play a deck which has a good match-ups against anti-meta decks (hence play an anti-anti-meta deck) ? And try to avoid playing secrets when S. Eater and Kezan are everywhere, letting the opponent struggle with his useless tech cards ?
Well as dumb as this is the only answer is to play better and play better decks against your opponents. The people you are playing at rank 1 could have been top legend players before wild. You are not doing worse, your rank just got pushed down.
Thanks for all your advices, I think I'll try getting Legend in Standard first, then, since it seems to be easier than Wild, contrary to what I first thought ! Then , when I'll try Wild again, I'll keep in mind its hard-teching mechanics.
When i play wild, my decks are all heavily teched vs secret paladin as it seems to make up more than half of the opponents i face. I am certain many others are doing the same because i see a lot of ooze, Eater of secrets, Harrison Jones etc on the wild ladder. The reason wild is such a challenge is because its rather difficult to predict your opponents plays in wild, however you are making it easy for people to know what youre goig to play since you are playing a brain dead totally predictable deck that wins only by out tempoing people who draw poorly.
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Hi, first I apologize for any mistakes I could make, since I'm not a native english speaker.
I am a 2x Legend player, but I got legend before the launch of Standard. So, I decided to climb the ladder two more times, in Wild first, then in Standard, to make sure I am still able to get to the higher rank in both formats.
But... I failed to reach Legend in Wild last month in an unexpected way.
Indeed, I first decided to run a N'Zoth Secret Paladin, since I considered it, though boring, as one of the fastest and efficient decks out there. I climbed really fast, and even got a 20-0 win streak.
When I got to Rank 5, my win rate logically decreased to about 70%, which was still very decent. Also, as usual, I started switching decks and teching, according to the decks I faced. I mainly played Secret Pal, Zoo and Tempo Warrior. I kept climbing, about one rank every 12 games, it was fine.
But, when I reached Rank 2, everything became incredibly tough. Really. Last times I got Legend, I have been used to face more skilled players but... This time I had the feeling I just couldn't win more than 50% of the time.
I got Rank 1 three times, then fall again to Rank 2 and, in the end, after 10 days of struggle, I couldn't make it to Legend.
So, I tried to put the salt apart and think about what happened :
-Was I not good enough ? Although it's the right answer for 99% of this kind of topic, I never faced such an issue the 2 times I succeeded and, although it was hard, I always used to keep at least a 60+% win rate.
-Is it because there is no "official meta snapshot" in Wild ? I noticed I played way better when I knew and played around the opponent's decklist, but it would have to be the same for my opponent (since most of my decklist contained tech and personal improvements).
-Has it really become harder to climb in Wild ? I don't know, and that's why I am asking for opinions. On the contrary, I thought that most of "semi-pro players" were going to play in Standard, making Wild easier than it was before the launch of Standard.
Also, I noticed two things, that I often read on Hearthpwn's forums, without really paying attention before I had the feeling it was also happening to me :
-I felt it much harder to climb when I played at night. (I play on EU)
-When I switch deck, I seem to face completely different classes. (Face 6 Zoo in a row with Pala, switch to Warrior, face 2 Priest and 4 Warriors).
Maybe my feeling were biased since I was on the tilt, that's why I'm also asking neutral opinions about those popular beliefs.
What do you think about what happened ?
TL;DR : 2x Legend player, I failed to get Legend in Wild last month. Is it because Wild has become harder ? Is it because I mainly played at night ?..
Nzoth Priest happened I guess.
I am not sure, I have never climbed that high, but I would love to see the decklist you are using? Would you mind sharing? :)
The decklist of the Paladin I mainly used ? Sure. Here it is without any tech. Double Consecration helps a lot against Zoo and other Paladin while N'Zoth bring more late game steam against control.
I played quite some wild last season, although not as much as you. I think there are a number of issues:
1: There are not that many players playing wild, and a lot of them just dick around while playing more seriously in Standard.
2: Because of this, the top end of the wild players might be a LOT better than what you face up to rank 3.
3: Said players have already a very good idea about the meta and how to tech, and it is harder to learn the wild meta by reading forums and netdecking.
4: As your deck was THE cancer before WoG, people are even over-teching for it in wild, I saw a priest with Eater of Secrets AND Kezan Mystic. Some times, the meta just runs away from you, and the only thing to do is to change your deck, or even archetype.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Also, your 3&4 make me remember of a hard anti-meta Hunter I faced at Rank 2 who was running 2ble explosive trap, 2ble secret eater, Kodo and so on.
I have this very feeling that playing in Wild decks which used to be popular is harshly punished, maybe that's why I didn't have much success with Pala and Zoo.
Don't really understand the "wisdom" of switching decks just because you are facing X deck on a given day. 5-6 games isn't enough of a sample to tell you anything about the current meta, which is unlikely to significantly change from day to day, as opposed to your random matchups which do. When you rank up or see a trend over several days/ a week, sure change it up, otherwise you are just chasing your tail. Commit to whatever deck you think works best for you and suck up the bad matchups.
There is a really good post on this that I am going to pick parts of here: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/19288269440
I have alway been interested by hearthstones star system. It seems a bit cutthroat.
You can’t go up in ranks without generated stars. When you win or lose a match normally above 20 one player gains a star and one player loses one, no stars generated so no change in the system. It takes 85 stars to get from 20 to legend. This means to generate enough stars for 1 player to reach legend the system need either 85 games played under level 20, this requires more new players, or you need 42.5 Win streaks. With less players there are less win streaks and less level 20 and under matches therefore less legend players.
I find both of your explanations very relevant as they explain both why it is harder to reach legend with a well-known deck and why I had this feeling of "facing same people again and again".
So, what would be the solution ? Play a deck which has a good match-ups against anti-meta decks (hence play an anti-anti-meta deck) ? And try to avoid playing secrets when S. Eater and Kezan are everywhere, letting the opponent struggle with his useless tech cards ?
Thanks for all your advices, I think I'll try getting Legend in Standard first, then, since it seems to be easier than Wild, contrary to what I first thought ! Then , when I'll try Wild again, I'll keep in mind its hard-teching mechanics.
When i play wild, my decks are all heavily teched vs secret paladin as it seems to make up more than half of the opponents i face. I am certain many others are doing the same because i see a lot of ooze, Eater of secrets, Harrison Jones etc on the wild ladder. The reason wild is such a challenge is because its rather difficult to predict your opponents plays in wild, however you are making it easy for people to know what youre goig to play since you are playing a brain dead totally predictable deck that wins only by out tempoing people who draw poorly.