Hearthpwn

Quote from WiseAsPlato >>

Quote from 4wd >>

 It's pretty obvious that Shaman is strongest class in the game atm.

I simply don't understand why people complain about it. There are always dominant decks in HS in any meta (and I wrote examples above). If it was not Shaman, it would Hunter, or Warlock, or anything else, so why not Shaman after all the time that it was dead class? I prefer to play 10 games against Shaman today then 1 game against Secret Paladin 2 months ago anyway.

Dear patriot of the land called Hearthstone: " There are always dominant decks in HS..." 

Let me explain to you why people complain about Shaman. I will use the keywords  balance and control.

1. You use the abbreviation "atm", at the moment. But why time and again (with every expansion) there must be some archetype "atm"  out of the ordinary in terms of winrates, overrepresentation in the ladder meta and or the talk of the town with a huge amount of complains about it? Is there any reason team 5 makes extraordinary decks rotating classes and archetypes for it? Where does the word balance fit in? It is a choice, team 5 does that, not a given you must accept like a law of nature. So tell me why you accept the status quo of power imbalance between the archetypes? Because the DEVS want it this way? You are a patriot.

2. Why controldecks have to suffer from this shamanism? Due to the lack of reactive cards and the the abundance of proactive cards controldecks are having a hard time to establish board control in the early game. If you don't establish control in the first 4-6 turns you're toast against aggroism of shaman and zoolock, now swarming the meta.. Does Team 5 hate control decks? I start to wonder. And really C'thun and N'Zoth doesn't compensate. So people rightfully  complain because their favorite controldecks suffers and there is no reason why they would change decks in order to rank up.

3. Off-topic. It is often said that people who readily accept executive decisions of powerful people, placed in high places tend to be conservative themselves in most to every aspect of the live. Politically, law and order etc. In this game this "mechanic' is seen in threads that defend the DEVS in most to every decision they make. What they do must be right so I'll defend it. So there should be nothing wrong with shaman, there was (of course) nothing wrong with secret pally, facehunter, prenerf patron warrior etc. I bet you will defend every other OP-deck the future holds and will readily defend the DEVS by calling people who rightfully throw rocks at them " whiners". .  You are a victim of the myth of the given being non critical. Well the world (as for this card game) only changes when people start to questioning existing power differentials. You are being a patriot in defense of the DEVS exhibiting ' Hearthstone nationalism.' 

For the record. " Get good Noop don't whine" is really below the belt. You don't take people arguments seriously. As for Donald Trump, he'd say the same to people that are not that rich. Unfortunately the reason why he got the nomination of the conservatives in the US called "republican party".  

 

Aggro shaman is 60% luck. 40% skill. I think it should be removed for that reason.

Whether it be face hunter, or aggro shaman.
It will, inevitably, get countered.  Give it time.


And to be honest, I never had a problem with secret paladin.  


Just play the decks yourself, see what is most being played.  Expand your repertoire.  You don't like it, don't ladder for awhile.  Take a break, dude.  It has always been a trade secret of mine.  If something is pissing you off, stop doing it.  Do something else.  Then come back to it.  Still pissing you off?  Rinse and repeat.

Quote from Beloria7 >>

guys SERIOUSLY all of you who whine about aggro shaman im totally sure you disagree with me now but look

i believe you never pass rank 10 because of your whining, aggro shaman strong deck ? yes its, is it OP ?!?! NO aggro shaman can be crushed by good warrior or priest player or any class but its the player i got legend this season as warrior my favourite matchups were against aggro shaman they were free wins to me i dont know why all this whining it seems you just cant pass rank 10, its not OP you must learn the game 

I'm not saying its not powerful, but Shaman has no curve and suffers when you play Totem Golem, Feral Spirit, Flamewreathed Faceless, and Doomhammer.   Despite the claims, you can't play those cards in order.  There is no perfect curve for Shaman, but every other turn they get to throw down an awesome card.  

I can't stress this enough because if you play the class, you'll notice the tempo drop and decks like Zoo, Tempo Warrior, and Tempo Mage can often catch up.  

The frustrating thing about these anti Shaman posts is everyone totally ignores the tempo loss of overload and acts like everything can be played in order.  

Again,  I'm not saying the deck isn't powerful, but its not perfect and I don't even think its the best deck right now.  It is a cheap deck to build with a good win rate so you see it often on ladder.

Quote from furiousferret >>

I'm not saying its not powerful, but Shaman has no curve and suffers when you play Totem Golem, Feral Spirit, Flamewreathed Faceless, and Doomhammer.   Despite the claims, you can't play those cards in order.  There is no perfect curve for Shaman, but every other turn they get to throw down an awesome card.  

I can't stress this enough because if you play the class, you'll notice the tempo drop and decks like Zoo, Tempo Warrior, and Tempo Mage can often catch up.  

The frustrating thing about these anti Shaman posts is everyone totally ignores the tempo loss of overload and acts like everything can be played in order.  

Again,  I'm not saying the deck isn't powerful, but its not perfect and I don't even think its the best deck right now.  It is a cheap deck to build with a good win rate so you see it often on ladder.

Excpet Shaman has a fairly low curve, so while there is no set curve, you'll hardly ever see a shaman not do anything at least decent on their turn. And even if they only hero power, that'll net them a free 5/5 taunt someday, so there's that.

Plus there is no tempo loss in Overload, only a tempo "transfer" from one turn to the previous, which results in no loss at all, and, because of the snowball nature of that deck ( And Tunnel Trogg ), is even quite an advantage.

Overload used to be a disadvantage because Shaman was a midrange deck that needed a fair amount of mana to do anything on their turn, but with cards like Tunnel Trogg and the aggro nature of shaman ( On top of the fact that overload cards have started being far more efficient, as Blizzard initially did weaken Overload cards to prevent that snowball effect ), that really doesn't hold anymore.

Quote from WiseAsPlato >>

Btw, if you tech against aggro you will loose against other decks. 

Man, just read what you wrote there... did you really mean that you should be able to tech against aggro AND win against any other deck at the same time?

Quote from WiseAsPlato >>

Quote from cuttlefish5 >>

Man, just read what you wrote there... did you really mean that you should be able to tech against aggro AND win against any other deck at the same time?

 Read my comment before you ask irrelevant questions.

I just beat an aggro shaman who peppered me with epics and legendaries...with my common freeze mage deck. But...that's not possible.

I guess he screwed up his curve or something something rng? 

Quote from WiseAsPlato >>

Quote from furiousferret >>

I'm not saying its not powerful, but Shaman has no curve and suffers when you play Totem Golem, Feral Spirit, Flamewreathed Faceless, and Doomhammer.   Despite the claims, you can't play those cards in order.  There is no perfect curve for Shaman, but every other turn they get to throw down an awesome card.  

I can't stress this enough because if you play the class, you'll notice the tempo drop and decks like Zoo, Tempo Warrior, and Tempo Mage can often catch up.  

The frustrating thing about these anti Shaman posts is everyone totally ignores the tempo loss of overload and acts like everything can be played in order.  

Again,  I'm not saying the deck isn't powerful, but its not perfect and I don't even think its the best deck right now.  It is a cheap deck to build with a good win rate so you see it often on ladder.

 Overload doesn't compensate for the spamming of cheap manna powerful proactive minions whether or not you can spamm them on curve. Aggro shaman is not to be countered. Only with luck you can win from them. All non-aggrodecks will have to sit out their time till the new expansion.

The game fun? yes, ladder? possibly not so much.  Then again, what do people expect?  You are trying to be the best, trying to put your name at the top.  It can be rewarding and engaging, but people on this thread talk as if it is going to be lighthearted, good-natured, fun to reach legend.  If it wasn't aggro shaman, it would be something else - people will do whatever it takes, whatever dirty underhanded stuff they can to get a leg up.   Thousands of people made legend this month with all sorts of decks, it isn't Shaman's fault if you aren't one of them.

i wish i would meet some more shamans, ez wins for a tempo warrior

Quote from Kefilkefish >>

I agree with this thread. Sure in a cardgame you may always win by simply drawing better. Still doesn't change the fact that Shaman currently runs:

The best 1-drop, 2-drop, 3-drops (wolves and tuskarr totemic), 4-drop (hi war golem?), the best weapon, one of the best AoEs and possibly the best removal (maybe after execute). Oh, and they also get a FREE 5/5 taunt. Uhm, yeah.

Nerf Shaman to reasonable and the meta would look a lot less like the 50% Shaman, 40% Warrior and 10% rest we're seeing now.

Both Totem Golem and Tuskarr Totemic reduce the cost of Thing from Below.

Quote from Pshemo >>

 Yea for sure 

Blizzard will change the game because some noobs cant deal with meta

Quote from WiseAsPlato >>

Quote from furiousferret >>

I'm not saying its not powerful, but Shaman has no curve and suffers when you play Totem Golem, Feral Spirit, Flamewreathed Faceless, and Doomhammer.   Despite the claims, you can't play those cards in order.  There is no perfect curve for Shaman, but every other turn they get to throw down an awesome card.  

I can't stress this enough because if you play the class, you'll notice the tempo drop and decks like Zoo, Tempo Warrior, and Tempo Mage can often catch up.  

The frustrating thing about these anti Shaman posts is everyone totally ignores the tempo loss of overload and acts like everything can be played in order.  

Again,  I'm not saying the deck isn't powerful, but its not perfect and I don't even think its the best deck right now.  It is a cheap deck to build with a good win rate so you see it often on ladder.

 Overload doesn't compensate for the spamming of cheap manna powerful proactive minions whether or not you can spamm them on curve. Aggro shaman is not to be countered. Only with luck you can win from them. All non-aggrodecks will have to sit out their time till the new expansion.

Honestly, there is always going to be a hated deck be it Face Hunter, Patron Warrior, Combo Druid, or Secret Paladin. If Blizzard nerfed Shaman, you would go on to complain about the next/new Tier 1 deck. Shaman is probably one of the less toxic decks. The meta is healthy.

Quote from DarthJaraxxus >>

Quote from 4wd >>

Quote from GaiusMaxwell >>

I'm not going to bat for one side or the other, but for the people who don't think Aggro/midrange Shaman is, at the very least, slightly overtuned at the moment, there is plenty of non-anecdotal evidence.

Just look at the current spring preliminaries and tourneys. The 8 finalists ALL have an aggro/midrange shaman in their line-up. There is no other class or deck that is represented among all 8 finalists.

Further, go and look at all the games from the preliminaries, Aggro/Midrange Shaman wasn't only the most represented deck in the entire tourney, it was also the most banned deck by their opponents in the entire tourney.

Shaman's are definitely a little bit stronger than balanced at the moment.

 It's pretty obvious that Shaman is strongest class in the game atm.

I simply don't understand why people complain about it. There are always dominant decks in HS in any meta (and I wrote examples above). If it was not Shaman, it would Hunter, or Warlock, or anything else, so why not Shaman after all the time that it was dead class? I prefer to play 10 games against Shaman today then 1 game against Secret Paladin 2 months ago anyway.

 Well said:  "there are always dominant decks in HS in any meta"!  For many, long, agonizing months, Shaman was lower than whale shit at the bottom of the ocean.  They finally got a Much Deserved boost and now it is time for Shaman to Shine.  

Quote from Ogobum >>

The game fun? yes, ladder? possibly not so much.  Then again, what do people expect?  You are trying to be the best, trying to put your name at the top.  It can be rewarding and engaging, but people on this thread talk as if it is going to be lighthearted, good-natured, fun to reach legend.  If it wasn't aggro shaman, it would be something else - people will do whatever it takes, whatever dirty underhanded stuff they can to get a leg up.   Thousands of people made legend this month with all sorts of decks, it isn't Shaman's fault if you aren't one of them.

Aggro shaman is tier 2 apparently now.  So how can a tier 2 deck ruin the game?