And it's not even close. With a deck which is designed to be able to win against every type of deck / class, I have a positive / neutral win rate against ALL CLASSES, except Rogue, which sits at a pathetic 28%(!).
I'm not even sure what to do about it, as the deck has no apparent counter and/or tech choice with Loathheb being out of the picture.
gotta lose some steam here, these miracle rogues are everywhere now and damn time wasting. like watching a damn show - they always draw until fatigue. super cancer.
I'm kind of in the same boat. Rogue is my worst matchup for a lot of decks. I think it's mainly because I play control decks like N'zoth paladin, control warrior, control priest etc. Rogue gets destroyed by aggro decks though so it's kind of a rock-paper-scissors mechanic.
I just find I need to play as aggressive as possible with a control deck vs rogues, and make them waste their saps on lesser threats. Have you considered teching in Ragnaros? He's a way to potentially kill a stealthed auctioneer if your deck lacks board clears.
Rogue has the lowest win rate on Hearthstats, some of that is from the higher skill cap compared to other classes, but not all of it. I do well with it but Shaman is almost an auto concede.
It loses to aggro and 4+ damage aoe because that is the HP of the minions they run,and more importantly, a concealed auctioneer that goes on board on turn 6+.So you have the time to draw AND the mana to cast the boardclear.
So lets see...
Aggro:Lock,Hunter,Shaman,Paladin.
Board clear:Paladin,Warrior(can be aggro),Mage,Shaman.
That leaves: rogues(50%),Priests and Druids(that can play aggro).
And what a bunch of bullcrap are you spouting!A deck that was designed to beat everything,what the fuck?!You make a deck that beats almost anything and jump on the forum crying that another deck counters yours whilst you are beating everything else?Do you even?
So you're saying Rogue is the best class because your win rate against them is low? But then Warrior is even better because when I play Freeze Mage my win rate against them is even lower than 28%. But Warriors also have bad matchups, and the worst matchup for Warriors is also the best class then, but since Warrior is the best class already, how can that other class be the best class too? And that second best class also has bad matchup , so now there is a third class the best class. But 2 of those classes can't be the best class because there is only 1 best class.
So what you're saying is totally wrong, could you share your decklist that counters everything, I'd like to see that.
And what a bunch of bullcrap are you spouting!A deck that was designed to beat everything,what the fuck?!You make a deck that beats almost anything and jump on the forum crying that another deck counters yours whilst you are beating everything else?Do you even?
Except I'm not crying. This is a discussion board and thus I'm inciting a discussion. Maybe the "What are your impressions?" is not clear enough for you? Or is the "imo" too confusing? Reading comprehension and all that... I know it can be hard.
it's bad against good control warriors and reno decks at least . if the players are bad it's good against anything though. after getting legend in EU i went on a tear from rank 19 to 9 without losing any game with miracle in the americas, some of those games i most def shouldn't have won if my opponents didn't fuck up specially with warrior.
So you're saying Rogue is the best class because your win rate against them is low? But then Warrior is even better because when I play Freeze Mage my win rate against them is even lower than 28%. But Warriors also have bad matchups, and the worst matchup for Warriors is also the best class then, but since Warrior is the best class already, how can that other class be the best class too? And that second best class also has bad matchup , so now there is a third class the best class. But 2 of those classes can't be the best class because there is only 1 best class.
So what you're saying is totally wrong, could you share your decklist that counters everything, I'd like to see that.
It's not about "counters everything", it's about playing / creating a deck that doesn't have hard-counters, so that's why every deck that I play needs to have a reasonable fighting chance. I rather do well against "all" than exceptionally against a "few".
I have played ~200 games with various versions of the same deck-archetype, changing and testing new cards here and there (been running Argent Commander for instance or Spellbreaker or Forbidden Ritual etc). The current iteration looks as follows:
My impression is that a snapshot of winrate means very little. There is so little information here to draw any meaningful conclusion except that YOU don't do well against rogue. Nothing else. I don't know how many games your winrate percentages are calculated from, I don't know which decks you played to achieve these results, I don't know which decks you played against (many classes have multiple archetypes that do better or worse against different decks), etc. If you only play decks that have poor matchups against rogue, you're going to have poor winrates against rogue. My final impression is I think it is ridiculous to call rogue "by far the best class atm" simply because you have poor winrates against them.
I will only go as far as to say that Rogue is in a much better place than people thought it would be after the nerf to bladeflurry.
Sorry to tell you, but there is no deck out there that will have a favored/neutral match-up against EVERY deck. Rogue is either the first or second best class right now, but it has counters.
Here are my winrates for the past month. I have a 50% or higher winrate against all classes except warlock. Thus warlock must be the strongest class. Oh wait, no. It doesn't mean that. In fact, if I were to remove the black box covering the win/loss ratios, you would see that I had 2 wins and 4 losses against warlock. I had 2 wins and 2 losses against hunter. That is a total of 10 games for my lowest winrates against hunter and warlock. You know what that means... absolutely nothing.
There is some merit to your statement, I suppose. Rogue is definitely a very strong class atm, but going as far as claiming it as the strongest, by far? Yeah, I dont think so.
I also cannot agree with the method you used to get to this conclusion. I could play 300 games with zoolock, and then claim that freeze mage is the best deck atm. And I would be wrong.
And it's not even close. With a deck which is designed to be able to win against every type of deck / class, I have a positive / neutral win rate against ALL CLASSES, except Rogue, which sits at a pathetic 28%(!).
I'm not even sure what to do about it, as the deck has no apparent counter and/or tech choice with Loathheb being out of the picture.
What are your impressions?
it's a miracle, miracle.
BBQ an egg?
I have little issues with it as Reno Mage.
gotta lose some steam here, these miracle rogues are everywhere now and damn time wasting. like watching a damn show - they always draw until fatigue. super cancer.
BBQ an egg?
Tell that to anyone playing Midrange or Aggro Shaman. Rogue is usually a pretty easy win unless you draw terribly.
I'm kind of in the same boat. Rogue is my worst matchup for a lot of decks. I think it's mainly because I play control decks like N'zoth paladin, control warrior, control priest etc. Rogue gets destroyed by aggro decks though so it's kind of a rock-paper-scissors mechanic.
I just find I need to play as aggressive as possible with a control deck vs rogues, and make them waste their saps on lesser threats. Have you considered teching in Ragnaros? He's a way to potentially kill a stealthed auctioneer if your deck lacks board clears.
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Rogue has the lowest win rate on Hearthstats, some of that is from the higher skill cap compared to other classes, but not all of it. I do well with it but Shaman is almost an auto concede.
It loses to aggro and 4+ damage aoe because that is the HP of the minions they run,and more importantly, a concealed auctioneer that goes on board on turn 6+.So you have the time to draw AND the mana to cast the boardclear.
So lets see...
Aggro:Lock,Hunter,Shaman,Paladin.
Board clear:Paladin,Warrior(can be aggro),Mage,Shaman.
That leaves: rogues(50%),Priests and Druids(that can play aggro).
And what a bunch of bullcrap are you spouting!A deck that was designed to beat everything,what the fuck?!You make a deck that beats almost anything and jump on the forum crying that another deck counters yours whilst you are beating everything else?Do you even?
The 1st step towards a better game is firing Mike Donais! We had enough of his "skillful" balances!
#FireMikeDonais
Play Patron Warrior. The only chance I've had with any Rogue deck was when I've gotten Yogg-Saron off.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
So you're saying Rogue is the best class because your win rate against them is low? But then Warrior is even better because when I play Freeze Mage my win rate against them is even lower than 28%. But Warriors also have bad matchups, and the worst matchup for Warriors is also the best class then, but since Warrior is the best class already, how can that other class be the best class too? And that second best class also has bad matchup , so now there is a third class the best class. But 2 of those classes can't be the best class because there is only 1 best class.
So what you're saying is totally wrong, could you share your decklist that counters everything, I'd like to see that.
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it's bad against good control warriors and reno decks at least . if the players are bad it's good against anything though. after getting legend in EU i went on a tear from rank 19 to 9 without losing any game with miracle in the americas, some of those games i most def shouldn't have won if my opponents didn't fuck up specially with warrior.
I have played ~200 games with various versions of the same deck-archetype, changing and testing new cards here and there (been running Argent Commander for instance or Spellbreaker or Forbidden Ritual etc). The current iteration looks as follows:
My impression is that a snapshot of winrate means very little. There is so little information here to draw any meaningful conclusion except that YOU don't do well against rogue. Nothing else. I don't know how many games your winrate percentages are calculated from, I don't know which decks you played to achieve these results, I don't know which decks you played against (many classes have multiple archetypes that do better or worse against different decks), etc. If you only play decks that have poor matchups against rogue, you're going to have poor winrates against rogue. My final impression is I think it is ridiculous to call rogue "by far the best class atm" simply because you have poor winrates against them.
I will only go as far as to say that Rogue is in a much better place than people thought it would be after the nerf to bladeflurry.
Play Patron Warrior or aggro Shaman.
Sorry to tell you, but there is no deck out there that will have a favored/neutral match-up against EVERY deck. Rogue is either the first or second best class right now, but it has counters.
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What is this "deck designed to beat all classes", i have a theory this doesnt exist.
Here are my winrates for the past month. I have a 50% or higher winrate against all classes except warlock. Thus warlock must be the strongest class. Oh wait, no. It doesn't mean that. In fact, if I were to remove the black box covering the win/loss ratios, you would see that I had 2 wins and 4 losses against warlock. I had 2 wins and 2 losses against hunter. That is a total of 10 games for my lowest winrates against hunter and warlock. You know what that means... absolutely nothing.
There is some merit to your statement, I suppose. Rogue is definitely a very strong class atm, but going as far as claiming it as the strongest, by far? Yeah, I dont think so.
I also cannot agree with the method you used to get to this conclusion. I could play 300 games with zoolock, and then claim that freeze mage is the best deck atm. And I would be wrong.
For me it's close to the top (tier 2 decks tbh). Nothing too crazy, even though I'm recking with the Control Rogue from benjacobkramer
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
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