Hi everyone. I dont like aggro decks from the very beginning of Hearthstone. Yesterday i watched a video of Kripp about why aggro is a dominant type. You can watch it from here. Summary of video:
1. Aggro works because in a logic of math, you get more value from low mana cost minions. Example: Abusive Sergeant costs 1 mana. 2 attack + 1 health and give 2 attack. If you look in a mathematic way a 4 mana cost minion needs to be 4*(2 attack + 1 health and give 2 atack) = 8 attack + 4 health and give 8 attack) but of course this card would be most broken thing (hello Flamewreathed Faceless). Yes i know this logic can not be always true (Wisp costs 0 mana = infinite value) but i think thats the point of how aggro cheats mana curve and why it is easy to play.
2. Aggro doesnt need to draw cards lot. If you have a minion or a spell in your hand thats enough. If you are winning the game it doesnt matter your hand is empty or full. Because of being ahead of mana curve you have already advantage. But control decks need cards to handle situations.
3. Win rates of aggro and control decks are usually close but when you think about ladder, time matters. If %60 win rate in control decks means 10 wins 4 loses, in aggro decks this means 20 wins 8 loses in same amount of time. More game more ladder.
I think Kripp is right and if Blizzard wants to bring justice, they should make more game changing mid or late game cards. Reno Jackson is a good example of this. And of course lack of healing another reason to aggro works. They dont need to heal but you do and healing cards are so few and lame.
The lack of healing and the time aspect is what I agree for aggro decks. However, I dont see them that often and with Reno Jackson still being around, I can even crush them with the new Control Rogue.
I dont get the point of your thread though. Your asking a question in the title and you're answering it in your post. Why did you open this thread?
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'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Cause aggro decks don't have to think, or even remotely use their brain for everything else but clicking a mouse - move a card a little up, and let go .... So .... 0% chance about doing anything wrong.
I dont get the point of your thread though. Your asking a question in the title and you're answering it in your post. Why did you open this thread?
I opened this thread for my world domination plan :D Because i just want to share an opinion and title not always must be as it seems. Contrary if you ask a question in title and say "yea boys what you say?" thats so simple from literary perpective.
I mostly agree with Krip but he is missing one important point:
Attackers have all the advantages in Hearthstone.
The attacking player gets to decide which minions attack and what they attack while the defender has no say in the matter. This allows the attacker to always set up attacks in the way that is most advantageous for him. While the defender can play taunts, it is still at the attacker's discretion as to how he wants to attack the taunt minion so he can still minimize his losses.
Combined with Krip's points, it's not difficult to see why aggro is performing so well right now.
The attacking player gets to decide which minions attack and what they attack while the defender has no say in the matter. This allows the attacker to always set up attacks in the way that is most advantageous for him.
Thats a good point too. I think in MtG there is a feature about it, you can choose while being attacked which minion will protect you. If i do not remember wrong.
Control just can't stay alive to bring out their cards. It's like they don't even have good cards. The games always end around turn 5, just as Control starts to come back. That's why Reno is so powerful.
Well, I think the main point, in general, is that aggro is just easier to play. Mind me, not brainless, just easier than control (acting is usually easier than reacting). And much cheaper, so more easily widespread.
On the other hand, I think it is good to have some amount of aggro decks. It would be too boring if every deck was control.
Huge heals such as reno are good for control, but I think it's lame if one single card can destroy a whole strategy. IMO, it would be better and much more fair to anyone to have just one more card with a similar design to Refreshment Vendor, which is not as dull as healbot or Reno. Refreshment Vendor or similar can profitably be used to survive against aggro, while aggro can still try and push their game.
Cult Apothecary is too situational. It can find its place in a control deck, but you cannot rely on it.
Well, I think the main point, in general, is that aggro is just easier to play. Mind me, not brainless, just easier than control. And much cheaper, so more easily widespread.
It's not any easier than Midrange. In fact, I'd argue it's a lot harder to play than any Midrange deck.
The other reason Aggro is prevalent is because more effort is being put into finding workable Aggro decks. This is because as many have said before, the ranked system of this game rewards Aggro significantly more, because faster games = more wins
Cause aggro decks don't have to think, or even remotely use their brain for everything else but clicking a mouse - move a card a little up, and let go .... So .... 0% chance about doing anything wrong.
The people who run MTG ran the numbers on this, and yes it's true aggro does have a much lower skill floor, however it turns out to have had a much much higher skill ceiling(about 4x what control has). Board Centric decks think about a ton of shit that you just don't realize you are thinking about when played at high levels because it's very subtle.
While You are definitely preaching to the choir when it comes to the game needing stronger mid and late game cards. The game doesn't need more neutral healing or recovery tools, it needs control player's to be more willing to play bad early game cards to hold out against aggro Instead of building for the control Matchup.
Well, that logic ignores a crucial ressource: cards. A card is valued at around 3 mana (arcane intellect costs one card and draws two, so you have one more than without AI; warlock hero power costs 2 mana + 2 life, 2 life ~1mana), if a control card always trades for 2 aggro cards, the aggro player will have a problem unless he could overwhelm the control player because of his lower curve. Card draw is essential in aggro decks, and drawing cards is always a loss of tempo.
The only thing I really agree on the list is the ladder structure rewards aggro. They should stop resetting everyone to rank 25 every month.
Whilst I would instinctively agree with you, then they should also create a new monthly reward system. Like forcing you into a minimum amount of played games (like 10-20) before making your starting rank count towards the reward. But I am not sure something like that is throughly fair.
Hi everyone. I dont like aggro decks from the very beginning of Hearthstone. Yesterday i watched a video of Kripp about why aggro is a dominant type. You can watch it from here. Summary of video:
1. Aggro works because in a logic of math, you get more value from low mana cost minions. Example: Abusive Sergeant costs 1 mana. 2 attack + 1 health and give 2 attack. If you look in a mathematic way a 4 mana cost minion needs to be 4*(2 attack + 1 health and give 2 atack) = 8 attack + 4 health and give 8 attack) but of course this card would be most broken thing (hello Flamewreathed Faceless). Yes i know this logic can not be always true (Wisp costs 0 mana = infinite value) but i think thats the point of how aggro cheats mana curve and why it is easy to play.
2. Aggro doesnt need to draw cards lot. If you have a minion or a spell in your hand thats enough. If you are winning the game it doesnt matter your hand is empty or full. Because of being ahead of mana curve you have already advantage. But control decks need cards to handle situations.
3. Win rates of aggro and control decks are usually close but when you think about ladder, time matters. If %60 win rate in control decks means 10 wins 4 loses, in aggro decks this means 20 wins 8 loses in same amount of time. More game more ladder.
I think Kripp is right and if Blizzard wants to bring justice, they should make more game changing mid or late game cards. Reno Jackson is a good example of this. And of course lack of healing another reason to aggro works. They dont need to heal but you do and healing cards are so few and lame.
Aggro works better than other decks because lower curve = lower chance of bricking the opening hand.
That's literally it.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
The lack of healing and the time aspect is what I agree for aggro decks. However, I dont see them that often and with Reno Jackson still being around, I can even crush them with the new Control Rogue.
I dont get the point of your thread though. Your asking a question in the title and you're answering it in your post. Why did you open this thread?
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
Cause aggro decks don't have to think, or even remotely use their brain for everything else but clicking a mouse - move a card a little up, and let go .... So .... 0% chance about doing anything wrong.
I mostly agree with Krip but he is missing one important point:
Attackers have all the advantages in Hearthstone.
The attacking player gets to decide which minions attack and what they attack while the defender has no say in the matter. This allows the attacker to always set up attacks in the way that is most advantageous for him. While the defender can play taunts, it is still at the attacker's discretion as to how he wants to attack the taunt minion so he can still minimize his losses.
Combined with Krip's points, it's not difficult to see why aggro is performing so well right now.
Control just can't stay alive to bring out their cards. It's like they don't even have good cards. The games always end around turn 5, just as Control starts to come back. That's why Reno is so powerful.
Well, I think the main point, in general, is that aggro is just easier to play. Mind me, not brainless, just easier than control (acting is usually easier than reacting). And much cheaper, so more easily widespread.
On the other hand, I think it is good to have some amount of aggro decks. It would be too boring if every deck was control.
Huge heals such as reno are good for control, but I think it's lame if one single card can destroy a whole strategy. IMO, it would be better and much more fair to anyone to have just one more card with a similar design to Refreshment Vendor, which is not as dull as healbot or Reno. Refreshment Vendor or similar can profitably be used to survive against aggro, while aggro can still try and push their game.
Cult Apothecary is too situational. It can find its place in a control deck, but you cannot rely on it.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
The other reason Aggro is prevalent is because more effort is being put into finding workable Aggro decks. This is because as many have said before, the ranked system of this game rewards Aggro significantly more, because faster games = more wins
Well, that logic ignores a crucial ressource: cards. A card is valued at around 3 mana (arcane intellect costs one card and draws two, so you have one more than without AI; warlock hero power costs 2 mana + 2 life, 2 life ~1mana), if a control card always trades for 2 aggro cards, the aggro player will have a problem unless he could overwhelm the control player because of his lower curve. Card draw is essential in aggro decks, and drawing cards is always a loss of tempo.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
The only thing I really agree on the list is the ladder structure rewards aggro. They should stop resetting everyone to rank 25 every month.
People who refuses to play aggro out of principle are even worse than people who play exclusively aggro.
One should seek to become a complete player and play all archetypes, including ones that he despises for whatever irrational reasons.
Aggro is used because its fast, consistent, curves out well, etc. This game will always be an aggro shit-fest man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA4ZzoXakrg
Just to add, I think midrange decks are by far easier to play than both aggro and control, and combo decks harder than all 3 of them.
People who refuses to play aggro out of principle are even worse than people who play exclusively aggro.
One should seek to become a complete player and play all archetypes, including ones that he despises for whatever irrational reasons.
Sledge Belcher is gone, Lotheb is gone, what did you expect?