Totally agree with the OP here: Yogg, like most cards, can be VERY good under the right conditions. People just aren't used to having to account for the exact conditions in which Yogg is good: when you're ahead in health but behind on the board and/or have emptied your hand. On average, in a high-spell deck, I consider it a 10 mana board clear plus big card draw with the potential for serious health fluctuations.
I think Yogg sometimes feels bad to people because it can be TERRIBLE if you don't meet all the conditions to play it:
Close to fatigue = likely disaster Already have card advantage = introducing unnecessary risk Low on health = too big a chance to kill your hero Big board = they will ALL die
And there aren't that many cards in Hearthstone that can have unpredictably disastrous consequences on your own turn. The worst thing that comes to mind that's comparable is having Doomsayer pop out of your Piloted Shredder... or maybe pulling a Cursed Blade out of a Malkorok or Blingtron 3000. But those are relatively low-percentage outcomes, and don't represent anything like the wild outliers which are possible with Yogg.
So it's a VERY conditional card. Think of it as a tech card: a parachute. Kind of like Alexstrasza or Reno Jackson, which can similarly avert disaster in one massive swing. Or Sprint, Lay on Hands, Twisting Nether, Brawl, DOOM!, Poison Seeds, Golden Monkey, etc. So the question becomes: how many parachutes are ideal in a deck, taking into account meta conditions? And then: which parachutes are ideal in any particular archetype?
I like to play Yogg when I'm behind. Usually you clear the board and draw, other times you'll develop a board, sometimes you kill the opponent, and sometimes you kill yourself. If you're already losing you don't have much to lose.
It's amazing that a large portion of the playerbase still does not realize that Yogg-Saron, Hope's End is a TECH CARD, used in decks with limited damage in hand and weak board presence.
A good example would be spell-based miracle rogue decks, where there is only X amount of damage you can do before you run out of cards, which makes Yogg-Saron, Hope's End a great tech against decks that manage to survive your combos. Any single card that can single-handedly win you unwinnable games is good, imo.
It's amazing that a large portion of the playerbase still does not realize that Yogg-Saron, Hope's End is a TECH CARD, used in decks with limited damage in hand and weak board presence.
A good example would be spell-based miracle rogue decks, where there is only X amount of damage you can do before you run out of cards, which makes Yogg-Saron, Hope's End a great tech against decks that manage to survive your combos. Any single card that can single-handedly win you unwinnable games is good, imo.
I see him more as a tempo card. You play him when you run out of steam. When I've been playing him I've had 10 cards left or so in my deck and my hand is out of answers to the board. You can usually count on him to draw you cards and reset the board at the very least. If he does anything else beneficial its just gravy on top.
If all is lost and you have nothing else to play (no impact or him beeing the only card in your hand left) , then maybe he can steal some games for you.
But damn, I rather play Deathwing then.
Don't like Yogg at all, it's just a RNG fiesta.
Just because you got lucky with him winning you games doesn't mean he is good.
I don't think you guys get it... I've lost more games having played Yogg-Saron, Hope's End than I have won.
I mean, if you know how to play him, you will not lose probably ANY game because of him.
All the times I have lost having played Yogg-Saron, Hope's End, I was already so far behind anyways that it didn't matter.
I'm bringing him in as a 50/50 in a 0/100 situation. No other card provides that kind of value. Reno Jackson comes close, and a whole meta was defined around him. Deathwing too, and was often used in CW decks. So did Lord Jaraxxus, which is still considered a Tier 1 Legendary.
Yogg is an extremely power card imo. It works as a game changer and isn't consistent for obvious reasons, you should never use it when you're winning, it's your last resource when you technically already lost. If you use it in a consistent spell deck that won't miss any card because you're adding Yogg, you will have a lot of fun. When the hope ends, you unleash the beast.
If all is lost and you have nothing else to play (no impact or him beeing the only card in your hand left) , then maybe he can steal some games for you.
But damn, I rather play Deathwing then.
Don't like Yogg at all, it's just a RNG fiesta.
Just because you got lucky with him winning you games doesn't mean he is good.
Deathwing may be too slow in the situations where Yogg can save you. Deathwing will clear the board and stick around himself, but he won't refill your hand (he'll do the opposite), and he won't touch the opponent's face.
I predicted this , some disagreed but now the results speak for themselves , op is completely right , yogg is a pain to deal with , everytime someone plays him against me he gets an advantage after the effect is over , the math are on the side of the one who play yogg and besides that you have a free potentiall reset tool in case something goes wrong.
I'm sorry, but what are those results you speak of? I've yet to see anyone beating the crap out of people in tournaments because of a yogg-saron deck, and I also havent seen anyone taking r1 legend with it.
I dont remember any major tournament since the release of wog so that point is irrelevant , yogg has a place on tempo and freeze mage and maybe even on miracle rogue , i dont know if those decks are capable to take r1 but they are pretty strong decks thats for sure and using r1 as a justification for a good deck is not a very good idea , i wouldnt consider it impossible though for a yogg deck to take r1 at some point.
There has been two. So it's sorta relevant. Still questionable though as the meta hasn't settled.
so you would say you only use him as your last hope
Yes, which is exactly the opposite of the card name. And, of course, I use him for fun.
No, the name Yogg-Saron, Hope's End is perfectly apt. You have hope until you play him, and then your hope ends, either because your win is assured and you no longer need hope, or because you are dead.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Yogg is just a dumb card. I don't want my potential win condition to be pure rng. Even if you win because of Yogg it's not fun for you or the opponent. I swear to god I hate cards like Yogg because they dumb this game down.
Actually, i've found that Yogg is much better if you cast him with like 5-10 spells at the most. Going ham and just shooting out like 20 spells prior to casting him with a brann on board is most assuredly just going to come out negative in most cases. With 5-10 spells, you will mostly just get a board clear and maybe gain or loose a little HP (very rarely keep yogg him self.).
Yogg is just a dumb card. I don't want my potential win condition to be pure rng. Even if you win because of Yogg it's not fun for you or the opponent. I swear to god I hate cards like Yogg because they dumb this game down.
Which god do you swear to though, there's like 4 and you just insulted one of them.
Also, yogg is not a win condition, clearly. Consider it your panic button for when you're losing anyway, you either go out in style or turn the tides completely. I can't imagine a card being better than Yogg for that, it's probably being tied with Reno as for gamechanging cards, only for Reno you have to set up your whole deck and Yogg is 'just there'.
But still, if you're losing to an opponent and press that panic button and turn the game around because you get incredibly lucky, do you consider that to be fun? You just won a game purely because you got lucky. I don't consider that to be fun for you or your opponent.
Totally agree with the OP here: Yogg, like most cards, can be VERY good under the right conditions. People just aren't used to having to account for the exact conditions in which Yogg is good: when you're ahead in health but behind on the board and/or have emptied your hand. On average, in a high-spell deck, I consider it a 10 mana board clear plus big card draw with the potential for serious health fluctuations.
I think Yogg sometimes feels bad to people because it can be TERRIBLE if you don't meet all the conditions to play it:
Close to fatigue = likely disaster
Already have card advantage = introducing unnecessary risk
Low on health = too big a chance to kill your hero
Big board = they will ALL die
And there aren't that many cards in Hearthstone that can have unpredictably disastrous consequences on your own turn. The worst thing that comes to mind that's comparable is having Doomsayer pop out of your Piloted Shredder... or maybe pulling a Cursed Blade out of a Malkorok or Blingtron 3000. But those are relatively low-percentage outcomes, and don't represent anything like the wild outliers which are possible with Yogg.
So it's a VERY conditional card. Think of it as a tech card: a parachute. Kind of like Alexstrasza or Reno Jackson, which can similarly avert disaster in one massive swing. Or Sprint, Lay on Hands, Twisting Nether, Brawl, DOOM!, Poison Seeds, Golden Monkey, etc. So the question becomes: how many parachutes are ideal in a deck, taking into account meta conditions? And then: which parachutes are ideal in any particular archetype?
I like to play Yogg when I'm behind. Usually you clear the board and draw, other times you'll develop a board, sometimes you kill the opponent, and sometimes you kill yourself. If you're already losing you don't have much to lose.
Shaku, the Collector gave me the Plague
LIES!
It's amazing that a large portion of the playerbase still does not realize that Yogg-Saron, Hope's End is a TECH CARD, used in decks with limited damage in hand and weak board presence.
A good example would be spell-based miracle rogue decks, where there is only X amount of damage you can do before you run out of cards, which makes Yogg-Saron, Hope's End a great tech against decks that manage to survive your combos. Any single card that can single-handedly win you unwinnable games is good, imo.
All these people with good RNG saying how yogg is winning games for them. Feelsbadman
I have played yogg 4 times , never won me the game, actually usually loses it for me
gogreenenergyonline.com
Kind of a lose-more card, in my opinion.
If you don't play a card when you're ahead because you're afraid it will screw you over, well...
"My life... for Aiùr."
Yogg is an extremely power card imo. It works as a game changer and isn't consistent for obvious reasons, you should never use it when you're winning, it's your last resource when you technically already lost. If you use it in a consistent spell deck that won't miss any card because you're adding Yogg, you will have a lot of fun. When the hope ends, you unleash the beast.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I agree with the card name, just kidding with the "last hope" thing against "Hope's End".
Yogg is just a dumb card. I don't want my potential win condition to be pure rng. Even if you win because of Yogg it's not fun for you or the opponent. I swear to god I hate cards like Yogg because they dumb this game down.
Fuck cubelock
Actually, i've found that Yogg is much better if you cast him with like 5-10 spells at the most. Going ham and just shooting out like 20 spells prior to casting him with a brann on board is most assuredly just going to come out negative in most cases. With 5-10 spells, you will mostly just get a board clear and maybe gain or loose a little HP (very rarely keep yogg him self.).
Fun Card only, noone will built a serious competitive deck around him, your can't just troll the dices and expect to win every time.
Also this guy strongly disagree
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhF8shKUVho
4 Damage to the enemy 140 damage to your face.
Fuck cubelock
It's already a general rule of thumb to only play Yogg if you're behind. Why would you risk worsening your board while you're ahead?