I personally see Knife Juggler's ridiculous power to come from other cards, not necessarily itself. Cards like Muster for Battle, Dr. Boom, and fuck it, Onyxia, really anything where you get tons of tokens or in decks where you can spam low cost minions, makes it really nuts.
With Piloted Shredder, Mad Scientist, Dr. Boom, and others leaving, the only ridiculous combos I still see is with Unleash the Hounds and the upcoming Stand Against Darkness, which will only really exist to be run with KJ and potentially Steward of Darkshire. That said, what potential nerfs do you see Knife Juggler receiving to make it balanced but playable? Personally, I think changing him to a 2/2 would probably suffice to make the card work where it needs to but not be an auto-include in many of the more aggressive decks. His effect is random, after all, and it's only a matter of time before everyone becomes the victim to unlucky RNG with this card.
I personally think Knife juggler is fine, it's a classic card so just leave it be. It will be interesting to see it play in standard mode. In all reality it works great sometimes, but most players recognize the threat and remove him from the board very early on. He needs a decent taunt card to be played with him to be very useful anyways, so leave him be.
2/2 for 2 and changing "summon" to "play" makes it a pretty fair card in my opinion. Eliminates the synergy with cards like UTH and SAD, as well as Pally and Shaman hero power, while keeping the flavor of the card and the ability to do damage over time.
Blizzard has stated that both Knife Juggler and Leper Gnome are high on the list for a possible nerf as far as early game minions go.
While I do like Knife Juggler it really does outshine most other 2-drops. I think a reasonable nerf would be to lower stats to 2/2 or change the wording to "play" as opposed to "summon".
So instead of nerfing one card Knife Juggler, we instead have to nerf several as well as never design cards that lots of tokens, really? Do you hear yourself, you don't want to nerf 1 card, but propose we nerf over a half dozen and never create an entire sub-section of cards in addition. Sure that seems logical . . .
The card is simply too versatile. You know a card it's probably OP when you can easily find a spot for it in pretty much every type of deck, with very few exceptions like Freeze Mage.
I love the proposed change Amaz mentioned on his stream the other day. Keep the 3/2, but change the text of the card to read "After you summon a minion, deal 1 damage to the enemy hero". This allows the card to still be pretty useful in aggro decks. But what makes a difference between a good aggro player and a great one is the ability to consistently determine when to trade and when to SMOrc. With Knife Juggler in most cases, you don't have to choose.
A good way of looking at it is comparing it with Huge Toad. You shouldn't be able to trigger multiple Huge Toads in one turn. The current value is just insane when paired with stuff like Muster for Battle, Unleash the Hounds or Haunted Creeper.
A 2-mana 3/2 with a 1-damage battlecry or deathrattle is balanced.
A 2-mana 3/2 with repeated (albeit random) pings that can only hit enemy targets? Beyond ridiculous. There has never been anything balanced about this card, especially for a Classic rare.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
So instead of nerfing one card Knife Juggler, we instead have to nerf several as well as never design cards that lots of tokens, really? Do you hear yourself, you don't want to nerf 1 card, but propose we nerf over a half dozen and never create an entire sub-section of cards in addition. Sure that seems logical . . .
Actually, OP never actually proposed the notion that the cards he mentioned should be nerfed, and to stop designing cards which summon tokens, nor was it implied. He was simply pointing out that the power that comes from the effect is in fact derived from other cards such as the ones which were listed.
3 mana 1/2 whenever you summon a minion deal 1 damage to ANY random character.
What a great idea, yes. Make its attack and health stats ridiculously horrible, and on top of that, change its ability to be able to target any character on the board. I see no problems with this at all.
I love knife juggler, I'm a zoo player after all. With this said, I do think that the card limits design space AND is bad for diversity, as you'll end up playing him over other cards very often.
It makes me sad, really sad, but I think juggler will be nerfed. I wish we could have him apart from standard in his original form somehow.
If blizzard are going to nerf knife juggler, then ideally what I would hope for is that they keep the mana cost to 2, keep its 3/2 body, but make the ability activate after you PLAY a minion instead of after you summon a minion so it only activates if you summon a minion card from your hand. The ability is only broken when used with cards that summon multiple minions on the battlefield at once.
But to be honest I do not even know what cards are going to be nerfed, all I hear is speculation. But what I find unfortunate is that people want cards to be nerfed but they will complain if the card gets absolutely destroyed. When blizzard nerf cards, they tend to nuke them out of existence which is why I am not looking forward to the nerfs because some well known classic cards may end up being rendered completely unusable.
I personally see Knife Juggler's ridiculous power to come from other cards, not necessarily itself. Cards like Muster for Battle, Dr. Boom, and fuck it, Onyxia, really anything where you get tons of tokens or in decks where you can spam low cost minions, makes it really nuts.
It's too powerful as a 2 drop, and it pretty much doubles the power of cards such as Unleash the Hounds and Muster for Battle, while also putting a 3/2 body on the board.
Saying "its power comes from other cards" is kind of stupid. Most OP cards have their power coming from other cards. E.g. Warsong Commander's power came from Frothing Berserker and Grim Patron, and before that, her power came from Molten Giants.
Yes, it is fairly well established that because he allows you to double dip with cards like Unleash and Snake Trap that some adjustment needs to be made. I suspect they will make him trigger only on played minions. Adjusting his cost might work, his stats won't make any difference as he is easy to remove.
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Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
It's not OP, it's better than the other 2 drops, making it it the real value card.
These 3 mana 1/2 and change summon to play nerf are ridiculous and are warning commander level nerfs.
3 mana 1/2 is ridiculous but I actually would not mind if he was not nerfed. However I suggested play instead of summon because if blizzard are going to nerf him which i honestly do not even know if they are going to do it than I suggested play as way to not completely kill the card because it still works. However the fact that its better than most two drops is probably the reason why people want him nerfed in the first place.
I do not whine about whether this card needs a nerf or that card needs a nerf, but I am concerned with how Blizzard will go about nerfing cards.
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I personally see Knife Juggler's ridiculous power to come from other cards, not necessarily itself. Cards like Muster for Battle, Dr. Boom, and fuck it, Onyxia, really anything where you get tons of tokens or in decks where you can spam low cost minions, makes it really nuts.
With Piloted Shredder, Mad Scientist, Dr. Boom, and others leaving, the only ridiculous combos I still see is with Unleash the Hounds and the upcoming Stand Against Darkness, which will only really exist to be run with KJ and potentially Steward of Darkshire. That said, what potential nerfs do you see Knife Juggler receiving to make it balanced but playable? Personally, I think changing him to a 2/2 would probably suffice to make the card work where it needs to but not be an auto-include in many of the more aggressive decks. His effect is random, after all, and it's only a matter of time before everyone becomes the victim to unlucky RNG with this card.
I personally think Knife juggler is fine, it's a classic card so just leave it be. It will be interesting to see it play in standard mode. In all reality it works great sometimes, but most players recognize the threat and remove him from the board very early on. He needs a decent taunt card to be played with him to be very useful anyways, so leave him be.
In it for fun, not BS
2/2 for 2 and changing "summon" to "play" makes it a pretty fair card in my opinion. Eliminates the synergy with cards like UTH and SAD, as well as Pally and Shaman hero power, while keeping the flavor of the card and the ability to do damage over time.
make him a 1/2 for 1 mana or even a 1(1 and keep the effect so he still is a strong combo card and not just something you play on curve mindlessly
Blizzard has stated that both Knife Juggler and Leper Gnome are high on the list for a possible nerf as far as early game minions go.
While I do like Knife Juggler it really does outshine most other 2-drops. I think a reasonable nerf would be to lower stats to 2/2 or change the wording to "play" as opposed to "summon".
So instead of nerfing one card Knife Juggler, we instead have to nerf several as well as never design cards that lots of tokens, really? Do you hear yourself, you don't want to nerf 1 card, but propose we nerf over a half dozen and never create an entire sub-section of cards in addition. Sure that seems logical . . .
The card is simply too versatile. You know a card it's probably OP when you can easily find a spot for it in pretty much every type of deck, with very few exceptions like Freeze Mage.
I love the proposed change Amaz mentioned on his stream the other day. Keep the 3/2, but change the text of the card to read "After you summon a minion, deal 1 damage to the enemy hero". This allows the card to still be pretty useful in aggro decks. But what makes a difference between a good aggro player and a great one is the ability to consistently determine when to trade and when to SMOrc. With Knife Juggler in most cases, you don't have to choose.
A good way of looking at it is comparing it with Huge Toad. You shouldn't be able to trigger multiple Huge Toads in one turn. The current value is just insane when paired with stuff like Muster for Battle, Unleash the Hounds or Haunted Creeper.
3 mana 1/2 whenever you summon a minion deal 1 damage to ANY random character.
A 2-mana 3/2 with a 1-damage battlecry or deathrattle is balanced.
A 2-mana 3/2 with repeated (albeit random) pings that can only hit enemy targets? Beyond ridiculous. There has never been anything balanced about this card, especially for a Classic rare.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
change "summon" to "play" is okay nerf
Heroes never die.
he will be nerfed to 1 health and made into a paladin class card.
I love knife juggler, I'm a zoo player after all. With this said, I do think that the card limits design space AND is bad for diversity, as you'll end up playing him over other cards very often.
It makes me sad, really sad, but I think juggler will be nerfed. I wish we could have him apart from standard in his original form somehow.
As I and other said, bump his cost up to 3 mana. He's OP, sorry.
If blizzard are going to nerf knife juggler, then ideally what I would hope for is that they keep the mana cost to 2, keep its 3/2 body, but make the ability activate after you PLAY a minion instead of after you summon a minion so it only activates if you summon a minion card from your hand. The ability is only broken when used with cards that summon multiple minions on the battlefield at once.
But to be honest I do not even know what cards are going to be nerfed, all I hear is speculation. But what I find unfortunate is that people want cards to be nerfed but they will complain if the card gets absolutely destroyed. When blizzard nerf cards, they tend to nuke them out of existence which is why I am not looking forward to the nerfs because some well known classic cards may end up being rendered completely unusable.
Make it a 2/2 and it's perfectly fine.
It's not OP, it's better than the other 2 drops, making it it the real value card.
These 3 mana 1/2 and change summon to play nerf are ridiculous and are warning commander level nerfs.
I returned to this game much like how a recovering alcoholic can relapse.
Yes, it is fairly well established that because he allows you to double dip with cards like Unleash and Snake Trap that some adjustment needs to be made. I suspect they will make him trigger only on played minions. Adjusting his cost might work, his stats won't make any difference as he is easy to remove.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.