"If I play Steward of Darkshire and then play Twilight Drake, does it gains the divine shield bonus? Yes, the Twilight Drake will get the Divine Shield and then its health gets buffed with the battlecry."
Faceless Shambler, since battelcry always activate before the minion is summoned, so when it actually gets summoned it already is a 3/3 (assuming the Steward of Darkshire is your only minion on board)
TSMS is right, not NoxShadow. The card says "Whenever", not "After"... So the effect of Hobgoblin (and the Steward then) triggers before the minion triggers its battlecry itself.
Hobgoblin is "whenever you play a minion". Steward of Darkshire is "whenever you summon a minion". That is a difference. However, the Battlecry resolves after the Summoning Resolution step, in which the "whenever you summon" minions Trigger their effects (like for instance starving buzzard).
Edit: If Hobgoblin and Steward are on the field together, and a 1/1 gets played, then Hobgoblin should trigger, but the Steward not because the minion has not 1 health any more, but 3.
Here is written a lot about this stuff and how it works:
tl;dr: In my opinion the divine shield triggers before the battlecry. So the shambler and also a Twilight Drake will receive the shield. But then again, I would not bet much money on my presumption...
TSMS is right, not NoxShadow. The card says "Whenever", not "After"... So the effect of Hobgoblin (and the Steward then) triggers before the minion triggers its battlecry itself.
If this is right then Twilight Drake would have great synergy with it as well
The faceless Shambler should gain divine shield. It would be consistent with Hobgoblin + Reliquary seeker (which works).
The reason is, Steward of Darkshire uses the word "Whenever", which are triggered in the On Play Phase of minion's play sequence. It go like this, with death processing between each phases:
- Minion is summoned - On play triggers are resolved (Whenever play effects, e.g. Hogoblin, Illidan) - Battlecry resolves - After play triggers are resolved (After play effects, e.g. secrets like Mirror Entity, Rumbling Elemental, etc...) - After summon triggers are resolved (Knife Juggler, Sword of justice, Ship's Cannon)
TL;DR: If the wording is consistent, Faceless Shambler will gain divine shield.
EDIT: Knife Juggler text was changed from "Whenever" to "After" so it would reflect what was really happening. I cannot believe Blizzard would print a card with the same flaw, so this card effect has to resolve in the On play phase, else the text would be "After you summon...".
Just to be accurate: The on play phase relevant for Hobgoblin is different from the summoning Resolution phase which is between the on play phase and the battlecry phase and which is relevant for Steward.
Hobgoblin is "whenever you play a minion". Steward of Darkshire is "whenever you summon a minion". That is a difference. However, the Battlecry resolves after the Summoning Resolution step, in which the "whenever you summon" minions Trigger their effects (like for instance starving buzzard).
Here is written a lot about this stuff and how it works:
tl;dr: In my opinion the divine shield triggers before the battlecry. So the shambler and also a Twilight Drake will receive the shield. But then again, I would not bet much money on my presumption...
You are correct. Whether a minion is played from hand or summoned by an effect, there is always a "Resolve Summoning" step before the battlecry. This is when "whenever you summon a minion" effects are activated.
The only difference between "played" and "summoned" is the trigger (Did it come from hand or not?). The timing is identical.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
So tell me, are you dropping the Drake on turn 4 after a turn-3 Steward? Hope the Steward lives that long!
Or are you waiting until turn 7 to combo them? Turn 7, when you will probably have fewer cards in your hand to begin with, minus one more for playing the Steward before the Drake?
What I'm saying is, it's not the world's worst combo, but I think there are better ones.
This is good to knwo. I was going to miss my hobgoblin deck. Now I get a darkshire deck. Also note that Steward + Stand Against Darkness means 5 1/1s with divine shield. That's actually not something to sneeze at.
Hobgoblin is "whenever you play a minion". Steward of Darkshire is "whenever you summon a minion". That is a difference. However, the Battlecry resolves after the Summoning Resolution step, in which the "whenever you summon" minions Trigger their effects (like for instance starving buzzard).
Here is written a lot about this stuff and how it works:
tl;dr: In my opinion the divine shield triggers before the battlecry. So the shambler and also a Twilight Drake will receive the shield. But then again, I would not bet much money on my presumption...
You are correct. Whether a minion is played from hand or summoned by an effect, there is always a "Resolve Summoning" step before the battlecry. This is when "whenever you summon a minion" effects are activated.
The only difference between "played" and "summoned" is the trigger (Did it come from hand or not?). The timing is identical.
However, also played minions are summoned. And according to the linked rulebook, the summoning phase resolves after teh on play phase. This is not relevant here, but could be if you have hobgoblin and Steward of Darkshire on the field together. If Hobgoblin resolves first, the minions will not get a divine shield. But I will try that as soon as the expansion hits. I am really interested how that stuff works. Maybe it even depends on the order of play...
Hobgoblin is "whenever you play a minion". Steward of Darkshire is "whenever you summon a minion". That is a difference. However, the Battlecry resolves after the Summoning Resolution step, in which the "whenever you summon" minions Trigger their effects (like for instance starving buzzard).
Here is written a lot about this stuff and how it works:
tl;dr: In my opinion the divine shield triggers before the battlecry. So the shambler and also a Twilight Drake will receive the shield. But then again, I would not bet much money on my presumption...
You are correct. Whether a minion is played from hand or summoned by an effect, there is always a "Resolve Summoning" step before the battlecry. This is when "whenever you summon a minion" effects are activated.
The only difference between "played" and "summoned" is the trigger (Did it come from hand or not?). The timing is identical.
However, also played minions are summoned. And according to the linked rulebook, the summoning phase resolves after teh on play phase. This is not relevant here, but could be if you have hobgoblin and Steward of Darkshire on the field together. If Hobgoblin resolves first, the minions will not get a divine shield. But I will try that as soon as the expansion hits. I am really interested how that stuff works. Maybe it even depends on the order of play...
It should not depend on the order of play. Both triggers should populate the same queue of event, and so resolve at the same time, the same way you can get the 5/5 minion when playing a 1/1 minion with two Hobgoblin on board.
So tell me, are you dropping the Drake on turn 4 after a turn-3 Steward? Hope the Steward lives that long!
Or are you waiting until turn 7 to combo them? Turn 7, when you will probably have fewer cards in your hand to begin with, minus one more for playing the Steward before the Drake?
What I'm saying is, it's not the world's worst combo, but I think there are better ones.
Hobgoblin is "whenever you play a minion". Steward of Darkshire is "whenever you summon a minion". That is a difference. However, the Battlecry resolves after the Summoning Resolution step, in which the "whenever you summon" minions Trigger their effects (like for instance starving buzzard).
Here is written a lot about this stuff and how it works:
tl;dr: In my opinion the divine shield triggers before the battlecry. So the shambler and also a Twilight Drake will receive the shield. But then again, I would not bet much money on my presumption...
You are correct. Whether a minion is played from hand or summoned by an effect, there is always a "Resolve Summoning" step before the battlecry. This is when "whenever you summon a minion" effects are activated.
The only difference between "played" and "summoned" is the trigger (Did it come from hand or not?). The timing is identical.
However, also played minions are summoned. And according to the linked rulebook, the summoning phase resolves after teh on play phase. This is not relevant here, but could be if you have hobgoblin and Steward of Darkshire on the field together. If Hobgoblin resolves first, the minions will not get a divine shield. But I will try that as soon as the expansion hits. I am really interested how that stuff works. Maybe it even depends on the order of play...
It should not depend on the order of play. Both triggers should populate the same queue of event, and so resolve at the same time, the same way you can get the 5/5 minion when playing a 1/1 minion with two Hobgoblin on board.
I agree that it shouldn't depend on the order of Play. However, Steward of Darkshire states "whenever you summon..." while Hobgoblin has "whenever you play...". And I understand from the advanced rulebook that this is a difference. Both hobgoblins have the same wording, so they Trigger both sincethey check at the same time for their condition. I think that Steward of Darkshire checks it after Hobgoblin resolved.
€: At least teh advanced rulebook makes the difference between the "on Play Phase" and the "summoning Resolution Phase". But you might be right. In a month, I will know for sure.
Hobgoblin is "whenever you play a minion". Steward of Darkshire is "whenever you summon a minion". That is a difference. However, the Battlecry resolves after the Summoning Resolution step, in which the "whenever you summon" minions Trigger their effects (like for instance starving buzzard).
Here is written a lot about this stuff and how it works:
tl;dr: In my opinion the divine shield triggers before the battlecry. So the shambler and also a Twilight Drake will receive the shield. But then again, I would not bet much money on my presumption...
You are correct. Whether a minion is played from hand or summoned by an effect, there is always a "Resolve Summoning" step before the battlecry. This is when "whenever you summon a minion" effects are activated.
The only difference between "played" and "summoned" is the trigger (Did it come from hand or not?). The timing is identical.
However, also played minions are summoned. And according to the linked rulebook, the summoning phase resolves after teh on play phase. This is not relevant here, but could be if you have hobgoblin and Steward of Darkshire on the field together. If Hobgoblin resolves first, the minions will not get a divine shield. But I will try that as soon as the expansion hits. I am really interested how that stuff works. Maybe it even depends on the order of play...
It should not depend on the order of play. Both triggers should populate the same queue of event, and so resolve at the same time, the same way you can get the 5/5 minion when playing a 1/1 minion with two Hobgoblin on board.
I agree that it shouldn't depend on the order of Play. However, Steward of Darkshire states "whenever you summon..." while Hobgoblin has "whenever you play...". And I understand from the advanced rulebook that this is a difference. Both hobgoblins have the same wording, so they Trigger both sincethey check at the same time for their condition. I think that Steward of Darkshire checks it after Hobgoblin resolved.
€: At least teh advanced rulebook makes the difference between the "on Play Phase" and the "summoning Resolution Phase". But you might be right. In a month, I will know for sure.
Yeah, you might be right. What happens if you play a Starving Buzzard then a Fel Reaver, then play a beast? Do you draw first or discard first? Does it depend on the order of play? That could hint us the answer. But it seems, from the advanced rulebook, that the "Whenever play" and "Whenever summon" are resolved in two different phases, yet both in the On Play Phase.
Okay, I checked it with Starving Buzzard and Hobgoblin . First I played the Buzzard, then the Hobgoblin. But when I played a Stonetusk Boar , it got first buffed by Hobgoblin, then I drew a card (see attachments, the boar is buffed when I get the card). This claryfies that the playing order is not important, but the "whenever you summon" will resolve after the "whenever you play". However, it is still be possible that the divine shield will also be given to the minion depending when the "whenever you summon"-card checks for conditions. But it is an indication that hobgoblin could make 1/1s "immune" to the steward...
Anyway, it will almost never be an issue, but I like to know how the game works...
I agree that it shouldn't depend on the order of Play. However, Steward of Darkshire states "whenever you summon..." while Hobgoblin has "whenever you play...". And I understand from the advanced rulebook that this is a difference. Both hobgoblins have the same wording, so they Trigger both sincethey check at the same time for their condition. I think that Steward of Darkshire checks it after Hobgoblin resolved.
€: At least teh advanced rulebook makes the difference between the "on Play Phase" and the "summoning Resolution Phase". But you might be right. In a month, I will know for sure.
You're right, my bad. "On play" definitely happens before "on summon," regardless of the order in which the providers of those effects came into play. I wasn't fully thinking through a scenario in which both types were on the board at once.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
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Just wondering which effect would trigger first.
Edit: Added Blizzard statement
"If I play Steward of Darkshire and then play Twilight Drake, does it gains the divine shield bonus?
Yes, the Twilight Drake will get the Divine Shield and then its health gets buffed with the battlecry."
Faceless Shambler, since battelcry always activate before the minion is summoned, so when it actually gets summoned it already is a 3/3 (assuming the Steward of Darkshire is your only minion on board)
Hobgoblin can give +2/+2 to a 5/5 Reliquary Seeker making it 7/7 and I assume Steward's effect works the same way.
TSMS is right, not NoxShadow. The card says "Whenever", not "After"... So the effect of Hobgoblin (and the Steward then) triggers before the minion triggers its battlecry itself.
Hobgoblin is "whenever you play a minion". Steward of Darkshire is "whenever you summon a minion". That is a difference. However, the Battlecry resolves after the Summoning Resolution step, in which the "whenever you summon" minions Trigger their effects (like for instance starving buzzard).
Edit: If Hobgoblin and Steward are on the field together, and a 1/1 gets played, then Hobgoblin should trigger, but the Steward not because the minion has not 1 health any more, but 3.
Here is written a lot about this stuff and how it works:
http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Advanced_rulebook#Playing.2Fsummoning_a_minion
tl;dr: In my opinion the divine shield triggers before the battlecry. So the shambler and also a Twilight Drake will receive the shield. But then again, I would not bet much money on my presumption...
Thanks for the quick replies guys!
Twilight Drake value!
The faceless Shambler should gain divine shield. It would be consistent with Hobgoblin + Reliquary seeker (which works).
The reason is, Steward of Darkshire uses the word "Whenever", which are triggered in the On Play Phase of minion's play sequence.
It go like this, with death processing between each phases:
- Minion is summoned
- On play triggers are resolved (Whenever play effects, e.g. Hogoblin, Illidan)
- Battlecry resolves
- After play triggers are resolved (After play effects, e.g. secrets like Mirror Entity, Rumbling Elemental, etc...)
- After summon triggers are resolved (Knife Juggler, Sword of justice, Ship's Cannon)
TL;DR: If the wording is consistent, Faceless Shambler will gain divine shield.
You can look up this video which explains it quite well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln0BisR_SfY
EDIT: Knife Juggler text was changed from "Whenever" to "After" so it would reflect what was really happening. I cannot believe Blizzard would print a card with the same flaw, so this card effect has to resolve in the On play phase, else the text would be "After you summon...".
Some evidence of the 7/7 Reliquary Seeker from Hobgoblin, in case anyone wanted it. So yes, Twilight Drake and Faceless Shambler should both get Divine Shield from it.
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!
Just to be accurate: The on play phase relevant for Hobgoblin is different from the summoning Resolution phase which is between the on play phase and the battlecry phase and which is relevant for Steward.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
This is good to knwo. I was going to miss my hobgoblin deck. Now I get a darkshire deck. Also note that Steward + Stand Against Darkness means 5 1/1s with divine shield. That's actually not something to sneeze at.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Okay, I checked it with Starving Buzzard and Hobgoblin . First I played the Buzzard, then the Hobgoblin. But when I played a Stonetusk Boar , it got first buffed by Hobgoblin, then I drew a card (see attachments, the boar is buffed when I get the card). This claryfies that the playing order is not important, but the "whenever you summon" will resolve after the "whenever you play". However, it is still be possible that the divine shield will also be given to the minion depending when the "whenever you summon"-card checks for conditions. But it is an indication that hobgoblin could make 1/1s "immune" to the steward...
Anyway, it will almost never be an issue, but I like to know how the game works...
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland