Considering that there aren't THAT many silence cards, really there's no reason to take away that mechanic - well no reason unless you're an entitled millennial who just needs to complain about everything on a forum all day long. That would be the ONE exception.
I love me some ad hominem. Also why do you think people complain about BGH? It's a SINGLE card. And if you were to read my post then you'd know I wasn't talking about removing the mechanic and I gave my reasoning. Unless you're a millennial who doesn't like to read more than 3 words.
I am not for or against the concept of temporary silence, except that it would be a nightmare for the devs to implement. You have to re-apply all the effects that happened before the silence, while having effects that come after it. It can get awfully complicated to track for the human player, and will likely have unintended interactions.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People who refuses to play aggro out of principle are even worse than people who play exclusively aggro.
One should seek to become a complete player and play all archetypes, including ones that he despises for whatever irrational reasons.
No I read your entire post and find it ridiculous. Silence cards are the great equalizer that actually helps to balance the game. Without them, those who run a more classic or Free to Play game can have a fighting chance. I believe there are 3 total silence cards in the game, unless I'm missing one, and one of those is class specific.
Also, BGH shouldn't be removed either, but my opinion on that will be saved for another thread.
Hate to break it to all of you who like to sit here, over-analyze, and complain all day: This game isn't chess. This game, also, isn't Magic the Gathering. It's Hearthstone. It's going to have imbalance. It's going to have crazy and weird additions and mechanics. It's going to have things that shut up a card with one single hit because it's BLIZZARD. That's what they do. Honestly if you don't like it, instead of complaining 24/7, go find a card game that meets all your exceptions and all your complaints. No one is forcing people to stay and play a game they have nothing good to say about.
And no, that isn't 100% directed towards you, OP. It's just a general sense of how this message board has become. I swear, other than Chillwind Yeti there isn't one card that a thread about nerfing it, isn't discussed.
And yes, you mentioned a mechanic rather than a single card. But the mechanic is so situation and the mechanic affects one card played (except for Mass Dispel which is a throwback to WOW and class specific). Removing the mechanic of silence would, in fact, remove the ability to play around taunts, which is a viable play style. And no, before you argue, not everything SHOULD be face. There should be more exchanges between minions, ideally. But silence doesn't make Face happen. Most people who run FACE, run one silence card, if that.
In addition, by changing silence to a one turn mechanic, that doesn't address the ridiculousness of people who buff one card to 30 plus damage with 30 plus health and have no way to combat it. You have to have SOME cards in the deck to combat that concept. That IS what makes it balanced. A counter to a card. A counter to runaway buffing and mechanics. It's part of the game.
I'm out. I'm not going to sit here and debate over silence. I have seen it all. I swear.
No silence works fine as is. You play a crappy statted card (or priest zero cost but waste a card) to remove effect from minion. However minion is still there, and can damage you or hurt your board.
If silence was so great, why isn't everyone running 2 owls and 2 spellbreakers?
God people complain so much, I guess nothing should be able to be countered or removed. Let's have no spells, while we are at it.
Maybe if the OP insults everyone who doesn't agree with him enough Blizz will change silence. Maybe.
Ironbeak/Keeper are the only two silences largely played, the former because of its low cost and the latter because of its flexibility. Silence as a mechanic carries a fairly high cost, aside from just mana, in that you're losing a card slot, body stats, and potential minion effect. The only time in which it is actually worth it is if the silence enables enough of a tempo swing to warrant the cost. I understand having your giant minion silenced may not be 'fun' for you, but you have counterplay options available and the back and forth fight for tempo is exactly what makes Hearthstone fun for many.
No silence works fine as is. You play a crappy statted card (or priest zero cost but waste a card) to remove effect from minion. However minion is still there, and can damage you or hurt your board.
If silence was so great, why isn't everyone running 2 owls and 2 spellbreakers?
God people complain so much, I guess nothing should be able to be countered or removed. Let's have no spells, while we are at it.
Every card should simply be 2 cost mana 2 attack and 1 health with the text reading; "Enjoy your white toast, lightly buttered". Then all would be happy.
Maybe if the OP insults everyone who doesn't agree with him enough Blizz will change silence. Maybe.
Ironbeak/Keeper are the only two silences largely played, the former because of its low cost and the latter because of its flexibility. Silence as a mechanic carries a fairly high cost, aside from just mana, in that you're losing a card slot, body stats, and potential minion effect. The only time in which it is actually worth it is if the silence enables enough of a tempo swing to warrant the cost. I understand having your giant minion silenced may not be 'fun' for you, but you have counterplay options available and the back and forth fight for tempo is exactly what makes Hearthstone fun for many.
Maybe if the OP insults everyone who doesn't agree with him enough Blizz will change silence. Maybe.
Point out to me where I did that please? Everyone who was against this idea only retaliated with with ridicule, shitposting and complaining about the community.
A change in the mechanic and removing altogether are two different thins and I said it leaves room actually add cards with superior silence effects that would then have the option of being permanent compared to the cheap solutions that are used all the time unlike the the other options. I'm talking about variety here and maybe not allowing the cheapest strategy decks to benefit from the cheapest silence solution, instead they have to pay a bit more inconvenience to do so.
The irony of people having nothing to add except complaining about complaints and then looking for confirmation with their peers. The true heroes of Warcraft.
If silence shouldbe be temporary then Big Game Hunter should be temporary as well
if Big Game Hunter is temporary then there shouldn't be cards with higher than 7 atk or cards that boost said card to 7 babyrage. oh wait its called counter play. you play around such things. and for the taunt arugment The Black Knight.
If Big Game Hunter was temporary he'd be called "big game trapper who then releases it because he's bored of the thrill of the hunt" n i don't think that would fit on a card. Kappa
Silence plays around cards and wonky effects. like nozdormu. if bgh or silence wasnt a thing he'd be meta n the bane of phone users.
if silence and bgh were removed then everyone will circle jerk bout removing the next mechanic that makes hearthstone the sh*tshow it is.
Considering that there aren't THAT many silence cards, really there's no reason to take away that mechanic - well no reason unless you're an entitled millennial who just needs to complain about everything on a forum all day long. That would be the ONE exception.
Unless you're a millennial who doesn't like to read more than 3 words.
Maybe if the OP insults everyone who doesn't agree with him enough Blizz will change silence. Maybe.
The irony of people having nothing to except complaining about complaints and then looking for confirmation with their peers. The true heroes of Warcraft.
Maybe if the OP insults everyone who doesn't agree with him enough Blizz will change silence. Maybe.
Point out to me where I did that please?
Any more questions about your general negative attitude? If you want people to see your side of things a good rule of thumb is to not insult them. Addressing your actual post, though, having two separate silence effects would very likely be unhealthy for the game. It needlessly adds complexity for the sake of complexity. If you're real argument against silence, as evidenced in your posts, is that it is too cheap (ala Ironbeak Owl), then why not just argue for Ironbeak nerfs as opposed to changing an entire mechanic for the worse?
This is ridiculous. Silence opens doors for more strategic play. Self-Silence, for example. You can silence your own Rag to guarantee lethal. Silence your own 1/8 Mountain Giant. Flip a minion's stats, attack, then silence as a heal. Vol'jin your own injured minion then silence it. Without silence, everyone would be complaining aboutHumility and Aldor Peacekeeper. Silence is by far my favorite mechanic and in no way needs a change.
Any more questions about your general negative attitude? If you want people to see your side of things a good rule of thumb is to not insult them. Addressing your actual post, though, having two separate silence effects would very likely be unhealthy for the game. It needlessly adds complexity for the sake of complexity. If you're real argument against silence, as evidenced in your posts, is that it is too cheap (ala Ironbeak Owl), then why not just argue for Ironbeak nerfs as opposed to changing an entire mechanic for the worse?
You're really trying to reach too far there and made no point at all by your apparent cherrypicking and out of context quoting. Also, all I did was presenting a fucking idea I had, but every negative comment on this forum consists of ad hominem, putting words into one's mouth and talking about salt shit and all that. I never even mentioned anything other than that I find the mechanic bad itself and a way to improve it it in my opinion. Never did I even mentioned anything about removing the mechanic or leaving no permanent silence options in the game (I didn't even mention Sap, Entomb and co). I wouldn't have made a thread if I didn't want to see what people actually had to say about it, and not my person or any bullshit community argument. But moving on.
I'm saying the only commonly used silences are too cheap and effective. But not only that it also adds the limit of designing card that no one wants to play because a 2 mana 2/1 completely negates the point of it permanently, and said card isn't a tech against a single specific card, it's use is almost guaranteed in every matchup. It would also leave room to create variety of silence, and if the text says "until next turn" I don't see how it complicates thing. This only means they have to deal with the card they just silenced, and instead of ignoring it. A little bit more thought in deck building and interaction can't hurt does it? Silence is an idiotic and too strong solution for literally every effect in the game that isn't a battlecry. And you know why people say big cards with no immediate effect are worthless.
It's shitty designed mechanic and too applicable, that's what I'm saying. HS already has little intricacies and silence removes even more of them.
You're really trying to reach too far there and made no point at all by your apparent cherrypicking and out of context quoting. Also, all I did was presenting a fucking idea I had, but every negative comment on this forum consists of ad hominem, putting words into one's mouth and talking about salt shit and all that. I never even mentioned anything other than that I find the mechanic bad itself and a way to improve it it in my opinion. Never did I even mentioned anything about removing the mechanic or leaving no permanent silence options in the game (I didn't even mention Sap, Entomb and co). I wouldn't have made a thread if I didn't want to see what people actually had to say about it, and not my person or any bullshit community argument. But moving on.
I'm saying the only commonly used silences are too cheap and effective. But not only that it also adds the limit of designing card that no one wants to play because a 2 mana 2/1 completely negates the point of it permanently, and said card isn't a tech against a single specific card, it's use is almost guaranteed in every matchup. It would also leave room to create variety of silence, and if the text says "until next turn" I don't see how it complicates thing. This only means they have to deal with the card they just silenced, and instead of ignoring it. A little bit more thought in deck building and interaction can't hurt does it? Silence is an idiotic and too strong solution for literally every effect in the game that isn't a battlecry. And you know why people say big cards with no immediate effect are worthless.
It's shitty designed mechanic and too applicable, that's what I'm saying. HS already has little intricacies and silence removes even more of them.
I'm starting to think you must be a teenager, otherwise you would realize that being so negative and cursing doesn't get your point across to anybody. But again, if your point is that Ironbeak Owl (the only 'cheap' commonly used silence) is of too low a mana cost, then yes, you may be onto something. But there is no reason to convolute a perfectly fine mechanic just for one card, and it would make infinitely more sense from a game design perspective (which is how Blizzard balances, not off opinion) to just change the problematic card.
However, that is assuming Ironbeak Owl is even a problematic card. Lets be honest here, the reason you hate the card is because you played some aggro decks and they Owl'ed your taunt. We get it, its frustrating, but is the silence mechanic really the overarching issue in that circumstance? Otherwise you have plenty of counterplay. Big effect minions are still big bodies when silenced, buffs can be spread around to avoid one minion getting silenced, and barring all of that you can just bait the silence out before playing an effect you want to stick.
In fact, in the pro column for silence are negating cant attack effects, or other card drawbacks of your own minions, and removing debuffs or other creative uses such as silencing a frozen minion to attack. It even lets Blizzard explore crazy persistent effects that would otherwise be overpowered because there will always be silences to keep them in check. Overall, the mechanic has way more upsides for the game than downsides.
But. Go on. Let's first look at more situations when Silence actually is NECESSARY.
And let's try to find examples where a Dispell effect -- an effect that removes all buffs, but let's a card retain it's card text, natural taunt and natural deathrattle -- wouldn't work.
The reason I don't like Silence, is because it's seriously boring. Examples for when Silence just makes me less interested in playing the game at all:
I pick Lightspawn in Arena, and lose two of my three games because I picked, drew and played a 0/5. In constructed, I LOVE the flavor of Lightspawn -- but... even as a niche card, It's unplayable. Like a Twilight Drake with 0 base health.
Playing Divine Spirit in a non-combo deck. Spending two mana on turn 4 on buffing a taunt minion's health. Then taking 7 face damage the next turn, because I don't have a taunt anymore. And my buff is gone. Why is playing taunt after taunt after taunt ALWAYS better than spending mana on buffing a minion..? Yes, because of silence -- I know... but... Should it always be that way, that ALL minions are throwaways, and buff spells reserved for Arena matches where they're cointosses..? Is damaging your own minions the only effect that should be allowed to stick..?
... One problem with permanent buffs is that they're essentially "Charge" effects. 4/4 charge for 4, in the case of Blessing of Kings... which is only played for it's charge effect and burst. Control Paladins won't be running Blessing of Kings, because they'd rather run an actual minion that doesn't die to a 0 mana effect.
I've heard a lot of people complaining about the mechanic lately and I'm also annoyed
Who is complaining about silence, and why?
First of all this ^^
Second of all, I might be one of the few, but I think we need more silence...
Third, if Iron Beak Owl's effect was not permenant, I think the stats would need a buff... and maybe a small buff for other silence minions too. Spell Breaker would also be much worse. 4/3 for 4 is bad, so, if his effect got a nerf, he should be buffed to a 4/4 or something.
Forth, aggro isn't even in a great place to need to be weakened. None of the top teir decks are purely aggro (maybe you can call Zoo aggro... I think it's more midrange/flood). Plus, there are plenty of strong decks which do just fine against aggro avalible.
I am not for or against the concept of temporary silence, except that it would be a nightmare for the devs to implement. You have to re-apply all the effects that happened before the silence, while having effects that come after it. It can get awfully complicated to track for the human player, and will likely have unintended interactions.
People who refuses to play aggro out of principle are even worse than people who play exclusively aggro.
One should seek to become a complete player and play all archetypes, including ones that he despises for whatever irrational reasons.
No I read your entire post and find it ridiculous. Silence cards are the great equalizer that actually helps to balance the game. Without them, those who run a more classic or Free to Play game can have a fighting chance. I believe there are 3 total silence cards in the game, unless I'm missing one, and one of those is class specific.
Also, BGH shouldn't be removed either, but my opinion on that will be saved for another thread.
Hate to break it to all of you who like to sit here, over-analyze, and complain all day: This game isn't chess. This game, also, isn't Magic the Gathering. It's Hearthstone. It's going to have imbalance. It's going to have crazy and weird additions and mechanics. It's going to have things that shut up a card with one single hit because it's BLIZZARD. That's what they do. Honestly if you don't like it, instead of complaining 24/7, go find a card game that meets all your exceptions and all your complaints. No one is forcing people to stay and play a game they have nothing good to say about.
And no, that isn't 100% directed towards you, OP. It's just a general sense of how this message board has become. I swear, other than Chillwind Yeti there isn't one card that a thread about nerfing it, isn't discussed.
And yes, you mentioned a mechanic rather than a single card. But the mechanic is so situation and the mechanic affects one card played (except for Mass Dispel which is a throwback to WOW and class specific). Removing the mechanic of silence would, in fact, remove the ability to play around taunts, which is a viable play style. And no, before you argue, not everything SHOULD be face. There should be more exchanges between minions, ideally. But silence doesn't make Face happen. Most people who run FACE, run one silence card, if that.
In addition, by changing silence to a one turn mechanic, that doesn't address the ridiculousness of people who buff one card to 30 plus damage with 30 plus health and have no way to combat it. You have to have SOME cards in the deck to combat that concept. That IS what makes it balanced. A counter to a card. A counter to runaway buffing and mechanics. It's part of the game.
I'm out. I'm not going to sit here and debate over silence. I have seen it all. I swear.
I like my competition extraSalty.
No silence works fine as is. You play a crappy statted card (or priest zero cost but waste a card) to remove effect from minion. However minion is still there, and can damage you or hurt your board.
If silence was so great, why isn't everyone running 2 owls and 2 spellbreakers?
God people complain so much, I guess nothing should be able to be countered or removed. Let's have no spells, while we are at it.
Maybe if the OP insults everyone who doesn't agree with him enough Blizz will change silence. Maybe.
Ironbeak/Keeper are the only two silences largely played, the former because of its low cost and the latter because of its flexibility. Silence as a mechanic carries a fairly high cost, aside from just mana, in that you're losing a card slot, body stats, and potential minion effect. The only time in which it is actually worth it is if the silence enables enough of a tempo swing to warrant the cost. I understand having your giant minion silenced may not be 'fun' for you, but you have counterplay options available and the back and forth fight for tempo is exactly what makes Hearthstone fun for many.
This ranks up there right next to "Leper Gnome needs a nerf" for silliest things I've ever read on this forum.
I like my competition extraSalty.
Thank you! Finally a little logic.
I like my competition extraSalty.
I like my competition extraSalty.
Taunt needs nerf! SMOrc
http://i.imgur.com/kX4Liaq.jpg
Let's just get rid of every form of removal except minion to minion combat, that's what the community wants right?
I'm seriously so sick of hearing people complain about removal/silence being overpowered.
Its fangs are in your flesh before its hiss leaves your ears.
Golden Heroes: Druid -> Rogue -> Shaman -> Hunter -> Warlock
This is ridiculous. Silence opens doors for more strategic play. Self-Silence, for example. You can silence your own Rag to guarantee lethal. Silence your own 1/8 Mountain Giant. Flip a minion's stats, attack, then silence as a heal. Vol'jin your own injured minion then silence it. Without silence, everyone would be complaining aboutHumility and Aldor Peacekeeper. Silence is by far my favorite mechanic and in no way needs a change.
OP needs to be silenced.
Explosive Shot => Meteor
Power Word: Tentacles => Spikeridged Steed
¨...
Okay.
Let's play a game.
Tell me WHEN silence is NECESSARY -- and then, we can take it from there.
...
I know of several examples, like Divine Spirit + Inner Fire
But.
Go on.
Let's first look at more situations when Silence actually is NECESSARY.
And let's try to find examples where a Dispell effect -- an effect that removes all buffs, but let's a card retain it's card text, natural taunt and natural deathrattle -- wouldn't work.
The reason I don't like Silence, is because it's seriously boring.
Examples for when Silence just makes me less interested in playing the game at all:
I pick Lightspawn in Arena, and lose two of my three games because I picked, drew and played a 0/5.
In constructed, I LOVE the flavor of Lightspawn -- but... even as a niche card, It's unplayable. Like a Twilight Drake with 0 base health.
Playing Divine Spirit in a non-combo deck. Spending two mana on turn 4 on buffing a taunt minion's health.
Then taking 7 face damage the next turn, because I don't have a taunt anymore. And my buff is gone.
Why is playing taunt after taunt after taunt ALWAYS better than spending mana on buffing a minion..?
Yes, because of silence -- I know... but... Should it always be that way, that ALL minions are throwaways, and buff spells reserved for Arena matches where they're cointosses..?
Is damaging your own minions the only effect that should be allowed to stick..?
...
One problem with permanent buffs is that they're essentially "Charge" effects.
4/4 charge for 4, in the case of Blessing of Kings... which is only played for it's charge effect and burst.
Control Paladins won't be running Blessing of Kings, because they'd rather run an actual minion that doesn't die to a 0 mana effect.
If silence is removed, then all spells should be removed too. They disturb my minions on the battlefield.
Dead but dreaming
Nightblade Argent Lance Flame Imp
Argent Watchman Argent Squire Frost Giant
Aviana Hogger Snipe Sea Giant