First thing i want to say: This is my opinion and if you don't agree that's fine with me. So then, i've been seeing a lot of posts and comments recently about cards needing to get nerfed and decks that could go fuck themselfs. I find it really funny how people think it's neededdto nerf to nerf over 9000 cards to make the game balanced, the level of cards has increased and the level of how good a card is has gone up and there should be less of a reason to go complain about them and yes, some cards are a bit broken like Savage Roar orAlexstrasza but now people are saying: Nerf Lepper Gnome, nerf Mounted Raptor wich seems like a joke to me. People also like to blame stuff on cards and decks while they have to face the truth and just blame themself, it really makes you improve at the game as well. Now people are playing a game and are getting killed by a Doomhammer + Rockbiter Weapon combo and are going to make a post saying: Doomhammer OP BLIZZARD PLZ NERF!!! While they should mabey blame themselfs for mabey getting a taunt up or admit you should've done something earlier that game. Of ourse sometimes you can't do anything about it but face it, this is a virtual CARD GAME. Not everything can be perfect and sometimes you also should not blame RNG for this reason. People are just salty about stuff and blame that while they should not blame anything or just blame themselfs. If you made it all the way here, thank you for reading this through and leave your opinion in the comments.
Not feeling like reading all of that but I agree. There's way to many threads asking for nerfs and the same people also complain about the lack of diversity in the game.I actually want more cards to be viable no less. If the same cards keep being played after a long time it's because Blizzard failed to create answer to them or at least equally viable options.
First of all, yes i did. I also made a poll about most OP cards for standard format. But what i'm saying here is that people are complaining about a deck or card JUST BECAUSE they simply get rekt by it... And people should blame themselfs more than blizzard because now it's like nerf this, nerf that, nerf freaking mounted raptor. I don't really have hate on any cards (exept for savage roar mabey but i have to admit, it's because i get get rekt by it :p), people don't want to blame it on themselfs and start blaming the deck they where facing or a card or combo wich is just stupid IMO.
Well, people ask for more content but at the same time for nerfs, it's hard to make everyone happy and it's just overwhelming. It's hard to predict if or how decks are gonna be made around or with specific cards. They try and with standard format it will be easier, and you can not play around every card but sometimes people just go all in and get their board cleared by Lightbomb cause they played all their minions and then complain about it being OP. This post was actually inspired by a guy telling me that he wanted RenoLock to go with telling no reason why what so ever, i asked him why and he just repied that i was being way to defensive and you can tell that it was because he get's beaten by it, again this is my opinion and i'm completely fine with yours as well.
It doesn't have much to do with the cards being actually OP or not. It has everything to do with the recent articles from that secret meeting back in last September. A lot of cards that came up recently, like Savage Roar and Leper Gnome, was mentioned in that meeting, and Blizzard has directly or indirectly hinted that they may be nerfed. Some of the people are getting a bit zealous about thinking what should be nerfed to ensure that the classic set is reasonably weak.
a) people who screams "NERF PLZ" everytime they get rekt.
b) people who thinks that Blizzard is doing a perfect balancing job and none of the cards are broken.
The OP belongs to the second extreme, where he thinks that all defeats are due to players and nothing to do with imbalance. If one is to agree with the OP, then there is no reason to nerf any card. Not Undertaker, not Warsong, not Buzzard, nothing. Just drop taunt minions and deal with it, or do something earlier in the game, or silent the Undertaker etc etc.
Everyone has a right to their opinion, and my opinion is that both of the two extremes sounds stupid.
Doomhammer is definitely absolutely freaking OP for any class that has Rockbiter Weapon. 3 card 16 damage combo, that can deal an additional 12 damage over the 3 next turns without further investment.
As for Lightbomb... I just wish the average minion had more health than attack, and that attack costed more than health: Attack is constant, health is a resource. When a 4/12 rams a 7/7 -- you've got a 7/3 versus 4/5. Where's your statpoints now? High health does not end games, like high attack does. Attack should cost more. And then, Lightbomb would not instantly kill everything. And that would be fine, because the priest would still be able to trade profitably, and then Circle of Healing to get his minions back to shape. Instead of the silly "1 for 1" minion trading that goes on, where most minions don't survive for more than one single turn most of the time, because health is considered as powerful as attack, and because high health minions such as Oasis Snapjaw are useless compared to high attack minions at the same cost, such as Chillwind Yeti. Both have 9 statpoints. But after ramming into eachother, one is a 4/3 while the other is a 2/3.
Instead of the silly "1 for 1" minion trading that goes on, where most minions don't survive for more than one single turn most of the time, because health is considered as powerful as attack, and because high health minions such as Oasis Snapjaw are useless compared to high attack minions at the same cost, such as Chillwind Yeti. Both have 9 statpoints. But after ramming into eachother, one is a 4/3 while the other is a 2/3.
By your logic, evil heckler is better than chillwind yeti. It even has taunt. In practice, this is not the case. What you have actually shown is that minions with balanced stats are better than minions with unbalanced stats.
Instead of the silly "1 for 1" minion trading that goes on, where most minions don't survive for more than one single turn most of the time, because health is considered as powerful as attack, and because high health minions such as Oasis Snapjaw are useless compared to high attack minions at the same cost, such as Chillwind Yeti. Both have 9 statpoints. But after ramming into eachother, one is a 4/3 while the other is a 2/3.
By your logic, evil heckler is better than chillwind yeti. It even has taunt. In practice, this is not the case. What you have actually shown is that minions with balanced stats are better than minions with unbalanced stats.
Low health is bad... but... the interesting part of the discussion is not how high attack minions become useless with low health, because that answer is simple: They just die.
The interesting part is how higher health minions are useless compared to their higher attack counterparts, even though they survive several attacks. Now.
1/7 taunt for 4 is useless compared to 3/5 taunt for 4. Both have 8 stat points plus taunt. 2/7 vanilla for 4 is useless compared to vanilla 4/5. Both have 9 stat points.
Low health is bad... but... the interesting part of the discussion is not how high attack minions become useless with low health, because that answer is simple: They just die.
I like it how you excuse it for just being uninteresting when being pointed out of the fallacy.
I failed to see how this question is more interesting. This question has little application since vanilla HS is not competitive. If you buff Oasis Snapjaw or Mogu'shan Warden, they would always shine brighter in combos, because that's a strength of unevenly distributed stats.
And by putting the question in this way, you also ignored the significant additional value of the health of sustaining creature with effects.
I'm not saying everyone needs to blame themselfs ALWAYS and i'm also not saying that it's fine to blame savage roar i just say that i don't have a problem with almost all the cards the only one i really hate is savage roar but that's just cause of salt and and i should blame most losses on myself and not always though... Hearthstone is a virtual CARD GAME. This happens in cardgames and sometimes you can't really blame anything like when your opponent topdecks his winning fireball. And last, the guy didn't say reno needed a nerf but he said he was glad it was going just cause imp-plosion and darkbomb and a few taunts are going+ antique healbot. And i'm fine with everyones opinions but i just think people think cards are OP while they're most of the time not and it's just salt.
some cards are a bit broken like [ [...] Alexstrasza b
I see this sentiment repeated time after time after time after time after time.
You people have a strange conception of "broken". The card isn't played much and the decks it tends to figure in are far from overly powerful, most strong decks do fine without it. I'm pretty sure I see Tirion a helluva lot more than I see Alexstraza, and that's a bleedin' class legendary.
Others parrot "limits design space" like they're some mini-version of Ben Brode. Again, "limits design space" for a card that hardly sees play these days is nonsense.
And the last argument is some gobble about "interaction". It's a bloody turn 9 card. If you can't plan for a turn 9 play, you need to gain a better understanding of Hearthstone.
For me its impossible to make a perfect balanced card game like hearthstone, even more with bizarre random cards like unstable portal.
I think we NEED to see some cards nerfed more frequently, and I would like to see some card buffed instead of a 5/3 rock rager or something. The problem is I see a big amount of people saying is easy and simple to balance the game, but I never saw a card game like that 100% balanced in my life and EVERY threat about nerf/buff a card no one agrees. Look that abomination of threat about Dr. Boom: there are several opinions about how to change it, no one agrees with the changes proposed and there a lot of people claiming the card is fine. How someone thinks is so easy to make this game 100% balanced if everyone have a different vision of balance???
The game CAN be more balanced, and I hope Blizzard starts doing that, but please be more reasonable with the expectations.
some cards are a bit broken like [ [...] Alexstrasza b
I see this sentiment repeated time after time after time after time after time.
You people have a strange conception of "broken". The card isn't played much and the decks it tends to figure in are far from overly powerful, most strong decks do fine without it. I'm pretty sure I see Tirion a helluva lot more than I see Alexstraza, and that's a bleedin' class legendary.
Others parrot "limits design space" like they're some mini-version of Ben Brode. Again, "limits design space" for a card that hardly sees play these days is nonsense.
And the last argument is some gobble about "interaction". It's a bloody turn 9 card. If you can't plan for a turn 9 play, you need to gain a better understanding of Hearthstone.
30 health. 30 health. 30 health. 30 health 30 health. 30 health. 30 health. 30 health. 30 health. 30 health. 30 health. The opponent deals 15 damage to your face with an 8/8 for 9 mana that must be dealt with.
It's essentially an 8/8 charge windfury for 9 when it hits your for 15.
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First thing i want to say: This is my opinion and if you don't agree that's fine with me. So then, i've been seeing a lot of posts and comments recently about cards needing to get nerfed and decks that could go fuck themselfs. I find it really funny how people think it's neededdto nerf to nerf over 9000 cards to make the game balanced, the level of cards has increased and the level of how good a card is has gone up and there should be less of a reason to go complain about them and yes, some cards are a bit broken like Savage Roar orAlexstrasza but now people are saying: Nerf Lepper Gnome, nerf Mounted Raptor wich seems like a joke to me. People also like to blame stuff on cards and decks while they have to face the truth and just blame themself, it really makes you improve at the game as well. Now people are playing a game and are getting killed by a Doomhammer + Rockbiter Weapon combo and are going to make a post saying: Doomhammer OP BLIZZARD PLZ NERF!!! While they should mabey blame themselfs for mabey getting a taunt up or admit you should've done something earlier that game. Of ourse sometimes you can't do anything about it but face it, this is a virtual CARD GAME. Not everything can be perfect and sometimes you also should not blame RNG for this reason. People are just salty about stuff and blame that while they should not blame anything or just blame themselfs. If you made it all the way here, thank you for reading this through and leave your opinion in the comments.
What do you think about this? Do you agree or disagree?
Not feeling like reading all of that but I agree.
There's way to many threads asking for nerfs and the same people also complain about the lack of diversity in the game.I actually want more cards to be viable no less.
If the same cards keep being played after a long time it's because Blizzard failed to create answer to them or at least equally viable options.
Didn't you make a thread stating how certain cards NEED to be buffed?
So it's ok to buff cards, but not to nerf them? As far as balance goes, what's the difference?
First of all, yes i did. I also made a poll about most OP cards for standard format. But what i'm saying here is that people are complaining about a deck or card JUST BECAUSE they simply get rekt by it... And people should blame themselfs more than blizzard because now it's like nerf this, nerf that, nerf freaking mounted raptor. I don't really have hate on any cards (exept for savage roar mabey but i have to admit, it's because i get get rekt by it :p), people don't want to blame it on themselfs and start blaming the deck they where facing or a card or combo wich is just stupid IMO.
There is no perfect balance.
Just plan to face certain things when you build decks.
Nightblade Argent Lance Flame Imp
Argent Watchman Argent Squire Frost Giant
Aviana Hogger Snipe Sea Giant
Well, people ask for more content but at the same time for nerfs, it's hard to make everyone happy and it's just overwhelming. It's hard to predict if or how decks are gonna be made around or with specific cards. They try and with standard format it will be easier, and you can not play around every card but sometimes people just go all in and get their board cleared by Lightbomb cause they played all their minions and then complain about it being OP. This post was actually inspired by a guy telling me that he wanted RenoLock to go with telling no reason why what so ever, i asked him why and he just repied that i was being way to defensive and you can tell that it was because he get's beaten by it, again this is my opinion and i'm completely fine with yours as well.
So true :)
That purple hipo is the stuff of nightmares!!!
It doesn't have much to do with the cards being actually OP or not. It has everything to do with the recent articles from that secret meeting back in last September. A lot of cards that came up recently, like Savage Roar and Leper Gnome, was mentioned in that meeting, and Blizzard has directly or indirectly hinted that they may be nerfed. Some of the people are getting a bit zealous about thinking what should be nerfed to ensure that the classic set is reasonably weak.
People who refuses to play aggro out of principle are even worse than people who play exclusively aggro.
One should seek to become a complete player and play all archetypes, including ones that he despises for whatever irrational reasons.
There are two extremes:
a) people who screams "NERF PLZ" everytime they get rekt.
b) people who thinks that Blizzard is doing a perfect balancing job and none of the cards are broken.
The OP belongs to the second extreme, where he thinks that all defeats are due to players and nothing to do with imbalance. If one is to agree with the OP, then there is no reason to nerf any card. Not Undertaker, not Warsong, not Buzzard, nothing. Just drop taunt minions and deal with it, or do something earlier in the game, or silent the Undertaker etc etc.
Everyone has a right to their opinion, and my opinion is that both of the two extremes sounds stupid.
"Put your face in the light!" - Tirion Fordring
Doomhammer is definitely absolutely freaking OP for any class that has Rockbiter Weapon.
3 card 16 damage combo, that can deal an additional 12 damage over the 3 next turns without further investment.
As for Lightbomb...
I just wish the average minion had more health than attack, and that attack costed more than health:
Attack is constant, health is a resource.
When a 4/12 rams a 7/7 -- you've got a 7/3 versus 4/5.
Where's your statpoints now?
High health does not end games, like high attack does. Attack should cost more.
And then, Lightbomb would not instantly kill everything.
And that would be fine, because the priest would still be able to trade profitably, and then Circle of Healing to get his minions back to shape.
Instead of the silly "1 for 1" minion trading that goes on, where most minions don't survive for more than one single turn most of the time, because health is considered as powerful as attack, and because high health minions such as Oasis Snapjaw are useless compared to high attack minions at the same cost, such as Chillwind Yeti.
Both have 9 statpoints. But after ramming into eachother, one is a 4/3 while the other is a 2/3.
Sure. Lightbomb is balanced.
Minions are not.
(...and Wrath of God is the single worst thing that ever happened to Magic the Gathering.
Just compare the two following cards:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3423
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=14498
...and just, for a moment, reflect over their mana costs...)
By your logic, evil heckler is better than chillwind yeti. It even has taunt. In practice, this is not the case. What you have actually shown is that minions with balanced stats are better than minions with unbalanced stats.
People who refuses to play aggro out of principle are even worse than people who play exclusively aggro.
One should seek to become a complete player and play all archetypes, including ones that he despises for whatever irrational reasons.
The interesting part is how higher health minions are useless compared to their higher attack counterparts, even though they survive several attacks.
Now.
1/7 taunt for 4 is useless compared to 3/5 taunt for 4. Both have 8 stat points plus taunt.
2/7 vanilla for 4 is useless compared to vanilla 4/5. Both have 9 stat points.
So.
HOW much more health would Oasis Snapjaw and Mogu'shan Warden need to see play over Sen'jin Shieldmasta and Chillwind Yeti in the 4 cost slots -- combos aside?
L,MAO
I'm not saying everyone needs to blame themselfs ALWAYS and i'm also not saying that it's fine to blame savage roar i just say that i don't have a problem with almost all the cards the only one i really hate is savage roar but that's just cause of salt and and i should blame most losses on myself and not always though... Hearthstone is a virtual CARD GAME. This happens in cardgames and sometimes you can't really blame anything like when your opponent topdecks his winning fireball. And last, the guy didn't say reno needed a nerf but he said he was glad it was going just cause imp-plosion and darkbomb and a few taunts are going+ antique healbot. And i'm fine with everyones opinions but i just think people think cards are OP while they're most of the time not and it's just salt.
For me its impossible to make a perfect balanced card game like hearthstone, even more with bizarre random cards like unstable portal.
I think we NEED to see some cards nerfed more frequently, and I would like to see some card buffed instead of a 5/3 rock rager or something. The problem is I see a big amount of people saying is easy and simple to balance the game, but I never saw a card game like that 100% balanced in my life and EVERY threat about nerf/buff a card no one agrees. Look that abomination of threat about Dr. Boom: there are several opinions about how to change it, no one agrees with the changes proposed and there a lot of people claiming the card is fine. How someone thinks is so easy to make this game 100% balanced if everyone have a different vision of balance???
The game CAN be more balanced, and I hope Blizzard starts doing that, but please be more reasonable with the expectations.
30 health.
30 health.
30 health
30 health.
30 health.
30 health.
30 health.
30 health.
30 health.
30 health.
The opponent deals 15 damage to your face with an 8/8 for 9 mana that must be dealt with.
It's essentially an 8/8 charge windfury for 9 when it hits your for 15.