Hearthpwn

Quote from BigFatMurloc >>

Quote from FinalFortune >>

If a card is limiting design space then it is inherently OP, look at other cards that fit that description like Mad Scientist and it'll make more sense - even Dr. Boom doesn't limit design as much as those two cards and people would consider him to be the poster child of "OP"

 So Master of Desguise is OP? Since oficial Statement of team 5 is that it is limiting design space?

You just dont know what OP means, Op means it pushes the actual WINRATE over everything else with substantial reach, thats OP because you can define it with stats. 

Everything else is just Babyrage and tears.

I understand perfectly well your argument for the combo being OP, I just don't agree at all

Is there another 2 cards combo that allow you to do at least 14 points ? And with Thaurissan (and a bit of luck) you can go up to 22 points on 9 mana.

When playing against a druid you know that under 15 health you're dead, where you now you're generally still alive against a mage.

If druid isn't dominant in the meta, it's because there is a lot of aggro decks and because Blizzard didn't provide new efficient tools, so if you draw poorly (or your opponent have a nice hand), you can't slow the game enought

Who are you people that are saying combo druid isnt a broken ass deck?

What ranks are you playing in? My mind is BOGGLED at how someone could say its not a disgusting deck to play against. Its general consensus by much of the hearthstone community (average joes, pros, even ben brode) that combo druid is an unbalanced deck. Why are you guys arguing that its not? You guys that are saying its perfectly fine are the minority at this point. 

Quote from turtleboats >>

Who are you people that are saying combo druid isnt a broken ass deck?

What slum ranks are you playing in? My mind is BOGGLED at how someone could say its not a disgusting deck to play against. Its general consensus by much of the hearthstone community (average joes, pros, even ben brode) that combo druid is an unbalanced deck. Why are you guys arguing that its not? You guys that are saying its perfectly fine are the minority at this point. Wake the fuck up!

Druid combo isn't op

Yeah, and HearthStone is skill based. Kappa

Only ppl who think combo druid is op are lvl25 scrubs. Read the thread bout it not being tier 1. Which is actually supported by statistic evidence and sound reasoning instead of retarded braindead bitching. Make a case, if u don't want to sound like the village idiot

Quote from DMaster2 >>

Quote from BigFatMurloc >>

So i still feel that nerfing FoN is not neccessary since the abuse or limitation seems so fringe. There are a lot of more obvious cards to change in the set that are lmiting the design space in more obvious ways.

 

 

 Wrong. You can print any control card for druid and it won't get played. Because as long as the combo exists, people will play that deck. And devs have to make sure they don't make any card that would be too busted considering the current midrange druid deck. And you can nerf Ancient of Lore or Keeper, people will still run Owl and Nourish (or whatever card draw they fancy). It's the combo concept that needs to go. Kill the combo and an actual deck will emerge given proper support.

Druid is the only one-dimensional class in the game, even priest, warrior and hunter have multiple deck types

Not only is it op, it's makes the game overall less fun and Brode already hinted that it's getting nerfed. The discussion to have about combo wombo is how it should be nerfed, not if.

There is a simple way to fix Force of Nature.

Make it summon two 3/3 minion with charge instead of 3 2/2 minion with charge.

This way, FoN + Roar only deal 12 damage with empty board, and 14 damage + minion attack with 1 minion on board. Nerfing Savage Roar will hurt token druid a lot. Whereas nerfing FoN by reducing its damage output will make it a super crappy card (6 mana for 6 splitted damage is crappy enough if not for Roar).

Quote from hyude1107 >>

There is a simple way to fix Force of Nature.

Make it summon two 3/3 minion with charge instead of 3 2/2 minion with charge.

This way, FoN + Roar only deal 12 damage with empty board, and 14 damage + minion attack with 1 minion on board. Nerfing Savage Roar will hurt token druid a lot. Whereas nerfing FoN by reducing its damage output will make it a super crappy card (6 mana for 6 splitted damage is crappy enough if not for Roar).

 

Quote from DMaster2 >>

Quote from DragonConsort >>

Only ppl who think combo druid is op are lvl25 scrubs. Read the thread bout it not being tier 1. Which is actually supported by statistic evidence and sound reasoning instead of retarded braindead bitching. Make a case, if u don't want to sound like the village idiot

 Check tempostorm and see where midrange druid is. Oh yeah, it's in the number 1 spot. Too bad, try again you'll be more lucky next time.

The problem isn't whether the combo is OP or not, it's the fact that it's so good that it makes it almost impossible to create a new win condition for Druid that is viable and balanced. There's a reason Druid has only really had one viable deck for the last 2 years.

I not sure if druid combo is op (or at least more op than other thing in this game), but for me need to be nerfed either way.

This combo for long time is limiting archetypes for druid. If Blizzard give another options, no one use it because is no strong enough to compete with "midrange combo", or simply make the combo deck even stronger.

Honesty I have no idea how to nerf this cards without destroying it, and I really hope Blizzard add very nice options for druid in the next set.

Quote from DMaster2 >>

Quote from hebbe84 >>

Quote from DMaster2 >>

Quote from DragonConsort >>

Only ppl who think combo druid is op are lvl25 scrubs. Read the thread bout it not being tier 1. Which is actually supported by statistic evidence and sound reasoning instead of retarded braindead bitching. Make a case, if u don't want to sound like the village idiot

 Check tempostorm and see where midrange druid is. Oh yeah, it's in the number 1 spot. Too bad, try again you'll be more lucky next time.

 You might not be able to think for yourself, but there are people who do. Based on the decks in the meta, druid shouldn't do very well. And according to those who actually play druid, it doesn't.

The most popular decks in the meta right now are zoo, secret pala, tempo mage and combo druid. The best match up out of those is the mirror match. Clearly, combo druid isn't the best deck on the ladder right now.

 Wrong. I think for myself and my opinion is supported by evidence. Since tempostorm is runned by a pro hearthstone team and all. Your opinion, apart from your "experience", what other support has?

@dmmaster: How about you actually reply to the arguments given than keep repeating non-sense. What part are you saying that I'm wrong about; the most popular decks in the meta or the win rate against the decks mentioned? It has to be one or the other if you're claiming druid to be the best deck right now.

I want the combo to be nerfed, this has nothing to do with that.

Quote from DMaster2 >>

Quote from hebbe84 >>

@dmmaster: How about you actually reply to the arguments given than keep repeating non-sense. What part are you saying that I'm wrong about; the most popular decks in the meta or the win rate against the decks mentioned? It has to be one or the other if you're claiming druid to be the best deck right now.

I want the combo to be nerfed, this has nothing to do with that.

Patron didn't had huge winrate but it was the number 1 deck until warsong murder. So yeah, winrate doesn't always mean much. Midrange druid is solid and has a good enough winrate in a lot of matchups. In fact the only matchups druid have an hard time with are zoo (did you wonder why it has emerged only recently? yeah, because druids) and tempo mages. The deck utterly destroy control and even with pally it has a 50% winrate.

Quote from DMaster2 >>

Quote from hebbe84 >>

Quote from DMaster2 >>

Quote from hebbe84 >>

@dmmaster: How about you actually reply to the arguments given than keep repeating non-sense. What part are you saying that I'm wrong about; the most popular decks in the meta or the win rate against the decks mentioned? It has to be one or the other if you're claiming druid to be the best deck right now.

I want the combo to be nerfed, this has nothing to do with that.

Patron didn't had huge winrate but it was the number 1 deck until warsong murder. So yeah, winrate doesn't always mean much. Midrange druid is solid and has a good enough winrate in a lot of matchups. In fact the only matchups druid have an hard time with are zoo (did you wonder why it has emerged only recently? yeah, because druids) and tempo mages. The deck utterly destroy control and even with pally it has a 50% winrate.

 We are not talking about how good the deck is overall, we're talking about how the deck does in the current meta. Combo druid is a solid deck with few really bad matchup, however those are the matchups that are prevalent in the meta right now. 

Exactly, the influx of zoo was due to druid dominating the ladder a few weeks ago. Druid was on top, but now it's being countered by the meta. Both zoo and tempo mage are terrible matchups for druid btw, tempo mage might even be slightly worse than zoo now that the tempo mage decks have shifted to even more aggro. And secret pala isn't 50/50 without teching against it, it's at best 45/55 in favour of pala.

Druid is very strong against control yes, however there are barely any control decks in the meta. The occasional reno lock and freeze mage, but how often is that? Absolutely no more than 1/10 games.

Winrate is everything btw, when determining the best deck in the meta, it's incomprehensible how someone can even suggest that it isn't. And yes patron actually did have a good winrate, almost across the board, with no hard counter.

 You do realize that zoo will take a huge blow in standard right? No egg, no haunted creeper, no implosion. Everything expect handlock, freeze mage and combo druid will start one notch below. And that's why combo druid will be looked at. The fact that it is so popular that made it's best counter rise from the ashes, well that's only aggravating.

Quote from donard80 >>

Let's look. You can burst 14 dmg+ for 9 mana.  But, you have to eventually pass through a taunt. There are other combo's with pure dmg. 2x fireball 12 dmg for 8 mana. 2x sinister strike + 2x eviscerate for 6 mana and it deals 14 dmg. Malygos +2x moon fire and those silly treants for 19 dmg and 10 mana. Double crackle + double lava burst for 10 mana 16-22 dmg. The fon + savage roar combo is the only one without being pure dmg, but with need to pass through a taunt. Belcher, annoytron, even senjin can half this dmg. So stop being salty, and learn to play taunt.

Quote from hebbe84 >>

Quote from DMaster2 >>

Quote from hebbe84 >>

Quote from DMaster2 >>

Quote from DragonConsort >>

Only ppl who think combo druid is op are lvl25 scrubs. Read the thread bout it not being tier 1. Which is actually supported by statistic evidence and sound reasoning instead of retarded braindead bitching. Make a case, if u don't want to sound like the village idiot

 Check tempostorm and see where midrange druid is. Oh yeah, it's in the number 1 spot. Too bad, try again you'll be more lucky next time.

 You might not be able to think for yourself, but there are people who do. Based on the decks in the meta, druid shouldn't do very well. And according to those who actually play druid, it doesn't.

The most popular decks in the meta right now are zoo, secret pala, tempo mage and combo druid. The best match up out of those is the mirror match. Clearly, combo druid isn't the best deck on the ladder right now.

 Wrong. I think for myself and my opinion is supported by evidence. Since tempostorm is runned by a pro hearthstone team and all. Your opinion, apart from your "experience", what other support has?

 An incredibly poorly, and lazily, maintained website is not "evidence". Tempostorms meta snapshot is at best a week or two behind the meta at all times. It's very rarely accurate.

For one thing there is a thread with statistics on 100 games played by druid which clearly shows what types of decks are faced in the meta right now. And if you have played yourself at all, above complete dumpster ranks, you know what decks are played the most right now and they are the decks that I mentioned above. All of which are favoured against druid, except for the mirror match which obviously is 50%.

The idiots commenting on this trying to defend the most broken class in the game is fairly amusing.