Its pretty much a given that 99% of players do it, even those who would really rather not. even creators of popular decks get idea's from other decks, but there is really no way of stopping it. but deck building i feel is such a big part that is just completely overlooked because of online lists, Look at tavern brawl for example the first couple of hours is when all the talented people are thinking up ideas after that anyone not lucky enough to be online at start time will join in, but mostly there will be decks online to copy.
There's nothing wrong with net decking. It would be pretty cool if people played their own decks but when the game rewards winning then playing an already tested deck is the best way to go. At least for those who want to maximize their time/gold when playing the game.
Besides, most popular decks are already fun to play so theres already a ton of decks out there for people to try and play them.
Netdecking is not dishonorable. Netdecking awful stuff like secret paladin IS dishonorable.You can say you are doing it for the wins, of course, but that's what happens with honor, you can succeed without it, and sometimes you'llbe more successfull when you avoid being an honorable person.
On the other hand, having both honor and success feels damn good. It's something I would encourage people to try.
Netdecking cuts time needed to make and tune up a deck. So no,it is not dishonorable.
Do you know how much time is needed to test and fine tune a completly new deck? I am trying a new idea and it is very time consuming. But on bright side, people who add you after those games are very intrested and pleasent, even asks for deck list. xD
And yes, some decks build them self, like secret paladin, it needed one more card to make it work great, and they got MC, like someone already mentioned, it built itself, some secrets+MC and some auto-include paladin cards and here you go. Variation of secret paladin are silly: "Hmmmm.... i will put Ragnoros instead of Tirion.", "Should i put 1 Belcher or 2, or none."
Scientists don't start from scratch, why should you? After all, deck building is just experimentation.
Except most netdeckers don't even remotely bother to experiment. To put in layman's terms, scientists experiment and create stuff - pills for example. Then people just eat those pills up.
That's what this is.
Not all scientists do original work. Some scientists do experients to prove or disprove other people's experiments so they can see if the original conclusion was correct. That would be like trying someone's deck to see if it really could get someone to legend or not.
That is.....giving a gargantuan amount of credit to people who are just too lazy or unimaginative to make their own stuff.
How many netdeckers - let's just say here and nowhere else - actually copy those decks, then tweak, then test, then post feedback and suggestions on them?
You can count those people on one hand. Yourself included probably.
Scientists don't start from scratch, why should you? After all, deck building is just experimentation.
Except most netdeckers don't even remotely bother to experiment. To put in layman's terms, scientists experiment and create stuff - pills for example. Then people just eat those pills up.
That's what this is.
Not all scientists do original work. Some scientists do experients to prove or disprove other people's experiments so they can see if the original conclusion was correct. That would be like trying someone's deck to see if it really could get someone to legend or not.
That is.....giving a gargantuan amount of credit to people who are just too lazy or unimaginative to make their own stuff.
How many netdeckers - let's just say here and nowhere else - actually copy those decks, then tweak, then test, then post feedback and suggestions on them?
You can count those people on one hand. Yourself included probably.
I can't even count the number of friends I have that do that on one hand, but we all came from a long background of card games so it may not be an accurate representation of the playerbase. I do think that you way over exaggerate though because I have yet to meet anyone that has netdeckers a deck and then never changed it.
Netdecking is not dishonorable. Netdecking awful stuff like secret paladin IS dishonorable.You can say you are doing it for the wins, of course, but that's what happens with honor, you can succeed without it, and sometimes you'llbe more successfull when you avoid being an honorable person.
On the other hand, having both honor and success feels damn good. It's something I would encourage people to try.
Why would it feel "damn good"? What is so special about honor?
Well, I feel pretty well doing things without playing some of the disgusting decks out there. I suppouse I'm that kind of person, who loves to beat dishonorable decks with something (no matter if netdecked or a variation) more honest.
And of course, as a person, I speak giving my own experience. Other people maybe are more than happy just winning with secret paladin. But then I'm not the one supporting that behaviour, as I think people can perfectly netdeck things funnier and more respectable.
Well, I feel pretty well doing things without playing some of the disgusting decks out there. I suppouse I'm that kind of person, who loves to beat dishonorable decks with something (no matter if netdecked or a variation) more honest.
And of course, as a person, I speak giving my own experience. Other people maybe are more than happy just winning with secret paladin. But then I'm not the one supporting that behaviour, as I think people can perfectly netdeck things funnier and more respectable.
Is that a Chaos Warrior as your avatar? I suppose you must like Khorne a lot then. :P
I play some WF and W40k, being my favorites in Fantasy Dwarves and Chaos (specially Slaanesh). In 40k I'm more into Imperial Guard.
Chaos Warriors are freaking cool, so why not let it be my avatar? xD
Yeah, LOL, they are very cool, no one said otherwise. :P
I used to play a lot Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40K when I was a teenager. I'm still shocked about Warhammer Fantasy no longer existing, it was such a cool game, and I liked it's fluff a lot, f...k you Games Workshop. :P
In Warhammer Fantasy, my main armies were: Orcs and Goblins and Vampire Counts, and in WH40K: Chaos Space Marines and Dark Eldar (I also played with Orks in 40k sometimes, because well, they are very funny :P). Probably some day I would return to the hobby (playing Warhammer 40k with Orks at least), but I'm worried about Game Workshop drastic decisions, so I really don't know if I should. I also played other tabletop games, like Warmachine / Hordes, some years ago.
Chaos fluff (in WF and WH40K) was probably one of the best things in the game for me. I still have some Chaos Space Marine codexes at home, but also, even Chaos army books from WF, just because of the fluff. Also, I have a unit of the 6th edition Chaos Knights painted as Khorne ones, because well, those miniatures look so badass painted mostly in red and gold for me, even when I like Tzeentch and Slaanesh more, although I can't deny that Khorne totally craziness for blood and battle is very cool... Blood for the Blood God. ;)
Although I supppose I should stop talking about Warhammer, since it is not related to the thread's topic. :P
Netdecking is a proof that you aren't experienced enough to create your own decks or/and to adapt to the metagame.
According to this statement, on one hand, not being experienced enough is not shameful. For instance, my experience with some classes or even decks may be really bad. Thus I don't feel legitimate and I often just try others lists, only modifying often one or two cards.
Netdecking becomes a problem when experienced players do it. I mean, being a good player doesn't only rely on your ability to do efficient plays. It also relies on your understanding of the game. And I would, by extent, say that your ability to play efficiently relies on your understanding of the game.
And the way you understand the game comes from different things: 1° The time you spend playing seriously. 2° What you read, watch and listen to. 3° Your ability to see the flaws in your deck-list and to remedy these flaws.
This is not a mystery that good to excellent players are also good to excellent deck-builders. Actually deck-builders (I mean, the one creating serious stuff that matter in the metagame) are really few, and I can't consider myself as a deck-builder, but I'm more like a deck "dimmer". And I would feel really bad if Ihad to netdeck for Priest, Mage, Druid or Paladin, for instance, because it would mean that my understanding of these classes isn't broad enough to reshape what others have done.
No offence, and not just gainsaying. I agree with your points mainly.
But let me make an addition to your points. There are some guys playing HS almost professionally. I mean they spent 8-10 hrs / day with playing, analyzing, deck designing. And these guys build decks and their decklists become the "netdecks". So..the question I want to ask is ... are we really able to create better than they had done? I don't think so.
That's the main meaning of the end of my message: Few people can really be deck-builders, but many can be deck dimmers. That is to say, many should be able to experiment things, to be able to adapt. You are right: professional players are often better than we are, but that doesn't mean they are flawless, and it doesn't mean that their deck-lists are flawless too. In fact, deck-lists they create are far from being flawless and often/always need to be reshaped to the specific metagame you encounter. (Actually, it also depends on the lists. Some deck-lists are really closed (ex. combo druid is an almost closed deck-list) while some others are extremely open (ex. Reno Mage).)
About netdecking, i've a quite funny anecdote to tell here. On rank Legend, a streamer that I was watching encountered a Priest playing Grand Crusader. When I wondered why, I figured out that the guy stupidly netdecked the deck that Kolento was playing. However, it was Kolento's “challenge Priest” (there was a challenge between some players: achieving r1 Legend with a bad card in the deck). The guy hasn't been able to understand that Grand Crusader is a bad card — especially for Priest since it's a 6-mana cost card. And just because Kolento was playing it, he thought it was good.
Well me myself. I learn about a concept, and i build around it with my own ideas.
The best hearthstoners are the ones who make their own decks, the people who copy their decks will never be their rank anyways so it truly doesn't matter if its dishonorable or not. People who whine about op decks are just whining.
I think there is nothing wrong with looking for inspiration for your decks, the problem is that most people look for the best decks. I wouldn't net deck a tier one deck, and any deck I do play I put my own spin on it.
I think there is nothing wrong with looking for inspiration for your decks, the problem is that most people look for the best decks. I wouldn't net deck a tier one deck, and any deck I do play I put my own spin on it.
This ^ I do it also, especialy its case with me becouse i don't have all cards. Lets say I want to play Totem Shaman, I know what main (core) card is for that deck. I come here to check what cards people have put in those decks for early game, what tech and removal cards do they use, see if i have those cards or not, and eventualy test the same deck (if i have all the cards) i find, at the end I always put cards that i feel comfortable to play and love to play.
My "netdecking" always ends in puting cards that i want to play, yes there are some core cards that if you dont have, that deck will not work, like minibot, muster (yes, we are back on paladin topic), shreder, etc.
And as my final word: If you didn't net deck, you would craft your own "revolutioning" deck, at some point you would be at level of popular streamers and players. But not all of us have the time (most importanly) and thought proces like those guys. And to not offend anyone, I am first that doesn't have the time to creat a brand new deck and don't have THAT thought process requirement to make it hapens.
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I think netdecking is fine, but you should learn to play the deck yourself and not from people's guide.
Its pretty much a given that 99% of players do it, even those who would really rather not.
even creators of popular decks get idea's from other decks, but there is really no way of stopping it.
but deck building i feel is such a big part that is just completely overlooked because of online lists, Look at tavern brawl for example the first couple of hours is when all the talented people are thinking up ideas after that anyone not lucky enough to be online at start time will join in, but mostly there will be decks online to copy.
There's nothing wrong with net decking. It would be pretty cool if people played their own decks but when the game rewards winning then playing an already tested deck is the best way to go. At least for those who want to maximize their time/gold when playing the game.
Besides, most popular decks are already fun to play so theres already a ton of decks out there for people to try and play them.
Netdecking is not dishonorable. Netdecking awful stuff like secret paladin IS dishonorable.You can say you are doing it for the wins, of course, but that's what happens with honor, you can succeed without it, and sometimes you'llbe more successfull when you avoid being an honorable person.
On the other hand, having both honor and success feels damn good. It's something I would encourage people to try.
Click to see my Hearthstone projects:
Actually, fuck honor. Netdecking is a mortal sin that requires you to sell your soul to the devil and once you do it the first time, you are lost.
But since I love satan I don't mind doing it.
Netdecking cuts time needed to make and tune up a deck. So no,it is not dishonorable.
Do you know how much time is needed to test and fine tune a completly new deck? I am trying a new idea and it is very time consuming.
But on bright side, people who add you after those games are very intrested and pleasent, even asks for deck list. xD
And yes, some decks build them self, like secret paladin, it needed one more card to make it work great, and they got MC, like someone already mentioned, it built itself, some secrets+MC and some auto-include paladin cards and here you go.
Variation of secret paladin are silly: "Hmmmm.... i will put Ragnoros instead of Tirion.", "Should i put 1 Belcher or 2, or none."
How many netdeckers - let's just say here and nowhere else - actually copy those decks, then tweak, then test, then post feedback and suggestions on them?
You can count those people on one hand. Yourself included probably.
Well, I feel pretty well doing things without playing some of the disgusting decks out there. I suppouse I'm that kind of person, who loves to beat dishonorable decks with something (no matter if netdecked or a variation) more honest.
And of course, as a person, I speak giving my own experience. Other people maybe are more than happy just winning with secret paladin. But then I'm not the one supporting that behaviour, as I think people can perfectly netdeck things funnier and more respectable.
Click to see my Hearthstone projects:
I play some WF and W40k, being my favorites in Fantasy Dwarves and Chaos (specially Slaanesh). In 40k I'm more into Imperial Guard.
Chaos Warriors are freaking cool, so why not let it be my avatar? xD
Click to see my Hearthstone projects:
Few people can really be deck-builders, but many can be deck dimmers. That is to say, many should be able to experiment things, to be able to adapt. You are right: professional players are often better than we are, but that doesn't mean they are flawless, and it doesn't mean that their deck-lists are flawless too. In fact, deck-lists they create are far from being flawless and often/always need to be reshaped to the specific metagame you encounter.
(Actually, it also depends on the lists. Some deck-lists are really closed (ex. combo druid is an almost closed deck-list) while some others are extremely open (ex. Reno Mage).)
About netdecking, i've a quite funny anecdote to tell here.
On rank Legend, a streamer that I was watching encountered a Priest playing Grand Crusader.
When I wondered why, I figured out that the guy stupidly netdecked the deck that Kolento was playing. However, it was Kolento's “challenge Priest” (there was a challenge between some players: achieving r1 Legend with a bad card in the deck).
The guy hasn't been able to understand that Grand Crusader is a bad card — especially for Priest since it's a 6-mana cost card. And just because Kolento was playing it, he thought it was good.
Well me myself. I learn about a concept, and i build around it with my own ideas.
The best hearthstoners are the ones who make their own decks, the people who copy their decks will never be their rank anyways so it truly doesn't matter if its dishonorable or not. People who whine about op decks are just whining.
I think there is nothing wrong with looking for inspiration for your decks, the problem is that most people look for the best decks. I wouldn't net deck a tier one deck, and any deck I do play I put my own spin on it.
I do it also, especialy its case with me becouse i don't have all cards. Lets say I want to play Totem Shaman, I know what main (core) card is for that deck. I come here to check what cards people have put in those decks for early game, what tech and removal cards do they use, see if i have those cards or not, and eventualy test the same deck (if i have all the cards) i find, at the end I always put cards that i feel comfortable to play and love to play.
And to not offend anyone, I am first that doesn't have the time to creat a brand new deck and don't have THAT thought process requirement to make it hapens.