So the upcoming Curse Trials tournament does not allow players to use Classic cards. And in Magic the Gathering there is such a thing as "Standard" where only the most recent sets can be used. So does Hearthstone need a format like this?
A lot of people complain that the wall for new players is becoming insurmountable and I think adding a "Standard" ladder vs an "Extended" ladder would help with this. Players with a very large collection could play "Extended" while new players could play "Standard" until their collection built up. Of course any player could play anywhere it would just allow more flexibility of choice for the player. It would also create two separate metas for the game which would create more diversity.
I think it would be interesting to have a special ladder in the future which allows say only the past 4 expansions or something (and adventures which released during that time frame). As it is now though I agree with siggrees, game is still too young for that. We're only on the second expansion.
I think we need a format like this to survive going forward. But right now? No, no we don't. Maybe another 2 or 3 sets?
That's a good point and I think I should have said "at some point." Though three full sets and three full adventures is already more than Magic does in its Standard format. So this leads to a follow up question, how many sets/adventures would be included in the Standard version?
I would think two most recent Expansions + three most recent adventures + basic cards (which would never cycle out). Currently we could enact this and it would just cycle out Classic. Makes me really curious to watch the Curse tournament and see how it plays out.
I think one thing that should always be considered is that with a rotating expansion list being 'legal' in one form of ladder, would this lead to the reprinting of cards? I mean, what happens when Warlock loses cards like Darkbomb and Imp-losion (in the same set)? Mage still keeps a staple selection from its Basic set, for example, but a lot of classes don't use their Basic cards, relying heavily on later expansions to be viable.
I'm not opposed to the idea, but I don't think it would automatically solve a lot of problems, and would instead create entirely new ones. And as people have already said, we don't need it now, at any rate. There are too few cards in the game, I think, especially since people are encouraged to buy Classic packs, only to have that cycled out on them.
Well the game is currently too young to ever consider such a format.
Why? Because 80% of all the competitive cards are from the classic. With competitive cards I mean cards that don't suck completely and don't have a place in the current card pool
The point is that you aren't using the current card pool. When you take away all the stuff from Naxx, Classic, TGT, GvG or whatever, then the viability of cards change completely.
So the upcoming Curse Trials tournament does not allow players to use Classic cards. And in Magic the Gathering there is such a thing as "Standard" where only the most recent sets can be used. So does Hearthstone need a format like this?
A lot of people complain that the wall for new players is becoming insurmountable and I think adding a "Standard" ladder vs an "Extended" ladder would help with this. Players with a very large collection could play "Extended" while new players could play "Standard" until their collection built up. Of course any player could play anywhere it would just allow more flexibility of choice for the player. It would also create two separate metas for the game which would create more diversity.
I would rather have different modes based on the rarity of cards:
one mode that only includes basic cards and craftable common cards (adventure-less)
and one mode with everything
maybe one mode without any adventure cards at some point in the future (craftable + basic cards only)
So the upcoming Curse Trials tournament does not allow players to use Classic cards. And in Magic the Gathering there is such a thing as "Standard" where only the most recent sets can be used. So does Hearthstone need a format like this?
A lot of people complain that the wall for new players is becoming insurmountable and I think adding a "Standard" ladder vs an "Extended" ladder would help with this. Players with a very large collection could play "Extended" while new players could play "Standard" until their collection built up. Of course any player could play anywhere it would just allow more flexibility of choice for the player. It would also create two separate metas for the game which would create more diversity.
I would rather have different modes based on the rarity of cards:
one mode that only includes basic cards and craftable common cards (adventure-less)
and one mode with everything
maybe one mode without any adventure cards at some point in the future (craftable + basic cards only)
I dig the idea of a "X rarity and below only" mode. Would make the game much more accessible to new players IMO since you won't have to worry about the latest deck with 4k dust worth of goodies stomping all over the basic deck you've spent no dust on whatsoever.
They should not add standard. Adding a standard competitive format, removes a key motive for balance. If you can just safely ignore balance issues of a card, because "it will not be part of meta in two years". The balance issue will be worse for both competitive and non-competitive. non-competitive would be similar to Magic the gathering Vintage format, with 3 turn games, and the like, while competitive would generate even more salty people complaining about broken cards.
Here are three solutions we can take to help new players though.
1. Slowly make the price for older packs cheaper (classic packs could go down to 90 gold).
2. Classic packs could give a higher rate of rare and epic cards (if you need common cards you could always disenchant).
3. Classic packs could give more cards. (5 to 6, would be the hardest to program).
They should not add standard. Adding a standard competitive format, removes a key motive for balance. If you can just safely ignore balance issues of a card, because "it will not be part of meta in two years". The balance issue will be worse for both competitive and non-competitive. non-competitive would be similar to Magic the gathering Vintage format, with 3 turn games, and the like, while competitive would generate even more salty people complaining about broken cards.
Here are three solutions we can take to help new players though.
1. Slowly make the price for older packs cheaper (classic packs could go down to 90 gold).
2. Classic packs could give a higher rate of rare and epic cards (if you need common cards you could always disenchant).
3. Classic packs could give more cards. (5 to 6, would be the hardest to program).
Definitely some interesting solutions and some good reasons against having standard but I would like to counter by bringing up the fact that while it might cause a lack of balancing on the part of Blizzard, they don't actually balance that often now. Also I would hope that they would still keep the extended ladder, basically the ladder we have now, balanced. If something starts absolutely wrecking it then they would hopefully balance that card out, same as they do now.
Standard would also cause people to come up with some new and innovative deck types. We are now six sets in and a lot of the most dominant decks are still mostly based around classic cards. By cycling them out in a format it would allow new deck types to show up.
So the upcoming Curse Trials tournament does not allow players to use Classic cards. And in Magic the Gathering there is such a thing as "Standard" where only the most recent sets can be used. So does Hearthstone need a format like this?
A lot of people complain that the wall for new players is becoming insurmountable and I think adding a "Standard" ladder vs an "Extended" ladder would help with this. Players with a very large collection could play "Extended" while new players could play "Standard" until their collection built up. Of course any player could play anywhere it would just allow more flexibility of choice for the player. It would also create two separate metas for the game which would create more diversity.
Dear god would that be a bad idea. Imagine not being able to use the most basic cards in hearthstone. Imagine all the progress, money, time, deck strategies you've poured into the game all wasted. So many viable (if weak) classes right now would become unviable. And worse still... You split the community.
Sure, the barrier for entry is getting higher and higher for new player . . . . Which is easily solved by added proper ways to grind out cards. IE adventure bosses can be completed once a weak for a gold drop just like in wow. Every 3 wins you get a pack, not 10 gold. ect.
This along with more cosmetic heros card backs ect being put in the store could actually push HS from a p2w game to a f2p game, as spending IRL money would become more about the cosmetic appearance of the game rather then giving you an unfair advantage.
HS' entire library is about half the side of MTG's standard format. We can literally double the card supply and STILL not hit the number of cards available in MTG's main limited format.
And that's not counting the 5 mixable colors in MTG compared to the 9 classes that can't mix . Thus there's even fewer cards available to use to use in deck creation.
Limiting the card supply doesn't make bad decks good. The good decks that can adapt will take over while the 'meh' decks will stay meh and unplayable. Thus many classes that FINALLY got a deck will fade out completely. The result is that FEWER decks will come into play in the end. The decks will be new...for a week or two. Then they will get boring.
A standard format as big os MTG's WILL allow for a large supply of decks to show up (like what we're slowly seeing now) and all of the classes having viable options. THEN we can start phasing out the old sets.
So formats MAY be an option.. in 2-3 years (given the current pace of cards). Now.. not even close.
So the upcoming Curse Trials tournament does not allow players to use Classic cards. And in Magic the Gathering there is such a thing as "Standard" where only the most recent sets can be used. So does Hearthstone need a format like this?
A lot of people complain that the wall for new players is becoming insurmountable and I think adding a "Standard" ladder vs an "Extended" ladder would help with this. Players with a very large collection could play "Extended" while new players could play "Standard" until their collection built up. Of course any player could play anywhere it would just allow more flexibility of choice for the player. It would also create two separate metas for the game which would create more diversity.
there are too few sets in HS to think about formats
curse event's rules are just only to add diversity, avoid the stall meta right now (which is good) and a challenge to the pros, but to think to add standard, modern (extendend was killed more than a year ago), legacy, etc is not viable right now
It's not that it "needs" certain formats, but more variety would certainly contribute to the longevity of the game.
This. HS doesn't necessarily need them right now, but I think in the long-term it would probably be a good thing to have 'formats' or 'leagues' that you could opt-in if you like the rule-sets/restricted lists.
HS definitely needs formats. Is right now the right time? Idk. I'd imagine that in a few sets it will be necessary. Here's why:
The more cards in a format, the more power crept new cards have to be to see play. This is unhealthy for the game. Blizzard HAS to power creep cards or else nobody would by the new set.
Tournament innovation is very stifled by the non rotating format. HS tournaments are so boring. Nobody innovates, and there is never good storylines bc the three deck format. MTG tournaments are the best. Standard rotates and the meta is wide open. That's why people get hyped for pro tours. To see how the new cards work there way in, and to say goodbye to the cards they are sick of. (Mono-back Devotion, nobody misses you.)
The more cards released, the harder it is for a new player to build a good deck. Sure, blizzard has been giving away classic packs, but GvG? All the adventures? It's way to overwhelming and you basically cannot play tier 1 decks FTP like I have done unless you grind arena 24/7. You HAVE to pay now if you want a good deck without waiting 15 years
Im suprised people havn't mentioned getting sick of older cards and decks. Midrange Druid? Been around forever. Zoo? Face Hunter? Sure new decks come and go, but playing against fireball and innervate in every deck that can run it is not good.
I written enough. What's your guys opinion on this?
I am all for having another ladder with limited options,
Imagine a ladder without FoN/SR combo, or challenger, or boom, or juggler..... Thats a ladder i want to live in.
admittedly, there will always be an OP deck everyone gets mad at, but to see some innovation and people trying new things would be good. Even casual isnt casual anymore. Run into netdecked handlocks, freezemages, facehunters, a secret pallys every game.
I can not believe that no one pointed out a huge difference between hs and mtg in availability of cards. Mtg sells limited print run sets. Hearthstone cards are always available. That is one of the main reasons there are different formats in mtg. If you want to play with a black lotus the only way to get one is from someone who owns it already, and if it is a popular card will price some out of the market. And the quantity of old cards will actually decrease over time with wear and tear. In Hearthstone you can buy packs for any set and craft any card at a fixed price no matter how popular the card. Also having a standard format benefits wotc financially because you have to constantly buy their new cards. I do agree that noobs need more ways to play without running into op players with tier 1 decks. I think they could add more ranks. That way at the beginning of the season you would not have legend players fighting in the same ranks with the less competitve. They could also probably change the way casual matches opponents.
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So the upcoming Curse Trials tournament does not allow players to use Classic cards. And in Magic the Gathering there is such a thing as "Standard" where only the most recent sets can be used. So does Hearthstone need a format like this?
A lot of people complain that the wall for new players is becoming insurmountable and I think adding a "Standard" ladder vs an "Extended" ladder would help with this. Players with a very large collection could play "Extended" while new players could play "Standard" until their collection built up. Of course any player could play anywhere it would just allow more flexibility of choice for the player. It would also create two separate metas for the game which would create more diversity.
Why am I sticky?
I think it would be interesting to have a special ladder in the future which allows say only the past 4 expansions or something (and adventures which released during that time frame). As it is now though I agree with siggrees, game is still too young for that. We're only on the second expansion.
I think we need a format like this to survive going forward. But right now? No, no we don't. Maybe another 2 or 3 sets?
Why am I sticky?
I think one thing that should always be considered is that with a rotating expansion list being 'legal' in one form of ladder, would this lead to the reprinting of cards? I mean, what happens when Warlock loses cards like Darkbomb and Imp-losion (in the same set)? Mage still keeps a staple selection from its Basic set, for example, but a lot of classes don't use their Basic cards, relying heavily on later expansions to be viable.
I'm not opposed to the idea, but I don't think it would automatically solve a lot of problems, and would instead create entirely new ones. And as people have already said, we don't need it now, at any rate. There are too few cards in the game, I think, especially since people are encouraged to buy Classic packs, only to have that cycled out on them.
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!
i think the pace blizzard releases new cards is to slow to change its usual format to standart
and blizzard mentioned people would be upset, if they could not play their favorite cards ... nonetheless, I'm looking forward to the tournament ^^
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They should not add standard. Adding a standard competitive format, removes a key motive for balance. If you can just safely ignore balance issues of a card, because "it will not be part of meta in two years". The balance issue will be worse for both competitive and non-competitive. non-competitive would be similar to Magic the gathering Vintage format, with 3 turn games, and the like, while competitive would generate even more salty people complaining about broken cards.
Here are three solutions we can take to help new players though.
1. Slowly make the price for older packs cheaper (classic packs could go down to 90 gold).
2. Classic packs could give a higher rate of rare and epic cards (if you need common cards you could always disenchant).
3. Classic packs could give more cards. (5 to 6, would be the hardest to program).
Why am I sticky?
I think the game needs variety and changes. I'd be willing to try your suggested changes along with many others in the interest of keeping it fresh.
Feel free to add me if you play on NA! iMPose#1429
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Dear god would that be a bad idea. Imagine not being able to use the most basic cards in hearthstone. Imagine all the progress, money, time, deck strategies you've poured into the game all wasted. So many viable (if weak) classes right now would become unviable. And worse still... You split the community.
Sure, the barrier for entry is getting higher and higher for new player . . . . Which is easily solved by added proper ways to grind out cards. IE adventure bosses can be completed once a weak for a gold drop just like in wow. Every 3 wins you get a pack, not 10 gold. ect.
This along with more cosmetic heros card backs ect being put in the store could actually push HS from a p2w game to a f2p game, as spending IRL money would become more about the cosmetic appearance of the game rather then giving you an unfair advantage.
As I say each time this is brought up.
HS' entire library is about half the side of MTG's standard format. We can literally double the card supply and STILL not hit the number of cards available in MTG's main limited format.
And that's not counting the 5 mixable colors in MTG compared to the 9 classes that can't mix . Thus there's even fewer cards available to use to use in deck creation.
Limiting the card supply doesn't make bad decks good. The good decks that can adapt will take over while the 'meh' decks will stay meh and unplayable. Thus many classes that FINALLY got a deck will fade out completely. The result is that FEWER decks will come into play in the end. The decks will be new...for a week or two. Then they will get boring.
A standard format as big os MTG's WILL allow for a large supply of decks to show up (like what we're slowly seeing now) and all of the classes having viable options. THEN we can start phasing out the old sets.
So formats MAY be an option.. in 2-3 years (given the current pace of cards). Now.. not even close.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
HS definitely needs formats. Is right now the right time? Idk. I'd imagine that in a few sets it will be necessary. Here's why:
The more cards in a format, the more power crept new cards have to be to see play. This is unhealthy for the game. Blizzard HAS to power creep cards or else nobody would by the new set.
Tournament innovation is very stifled by the non rotating format. HS tournaments are so boring. Nobody innovates, and there is never good storylines bc the three deck format. MTG tournaments are the best. Standard rotates and the meta is wide open. That's why people get hyped for pro tours. To see how the new cards work there way in, and to say goodbye to the cards they are sick of. (Mono-back Devotion, nobody misses you.)
The more cards released, the harder it is for a new player to build a good deck. Sure, blizzard has been giving away classic packs, but GvG? All the adventures? It's way to overwhelming and you basically cannot play tier 1 decks FTP like I have done unless you grind arena 24/7. You HAVE to pay now if you want a good deck without waiting 15 years
Im suprised people havn't mentioned getting sick of older cards and decks. Midrange Druid? Been around forever. Zoo? Face Hunter? Sure new decks come and go, but playing against fireball and innervate in every deck that can run it is not good.
I written enough. What's your guys opinion on this?
I am all for having another ladder with limited options,
Imagine a ladder without FoN/SR combo, or challenger, or boom, or juggler.....
Thats a ladder i want to live in.
admittedly, there will always be an OP deck everyone gets mad at, but to see some innovation and people trying new things would be good.
Even casual isnt casual anymore. Run into netdecked handlocks, freezemages, facehunters, a secret pallys every game.
My wobbling runts don't stand a chance haha
I can not believe that no one pointed out a huge difference between hs and mtg in availability of cards. Mtg sells limited print run sets. Hearthstone cards are always available. That is one of the main reasons there are different formats in mtg. If you want to play with a black lotus the only way to get one is from someone who owns it already, and if it is a popular card will price some out of the market. And the quantity of old cards will actually decrease over time with wear and tear. In Hearthstone you can buy packs for any set and craft any card at a fixed price no matter how popular the card. Also having a standard format benefits wotc financially because you have to constantly buy their new cards. I do agree that noobs need more ways to play without running into op players with tier 1 decks. I think they could add more ranks. That way at the beginning of the season you would not have legend players fighting in the same ranks with the less competitve. They could also probably change the way casual matches opponents.