I was just curious why more Shaman decks don't use windfury or focus it as much as others. I was recently watching Kripp do an arena run where he got 3 Firelords and a Windfury spells. For relatively cheap he could get a 6/6 windfury out and then Rock biter it twice for 12/6 with windfury. And of course we all seen the Zapp-o-matic one turn kills by now. So why isn't this used more?
It sounds pretty awesome given the new cards. But after looking I can't really find any workable or highly rated decks that use the idea. If there are I would definitely like to try them or try to work on them to incorporate new cards. I am just not a super great deck builder myself. I have tried to make a few and they just don't feel like they work. But if there is a good reason they are not used... well that is a different story.
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Windfury is a very strong technique and I used to play a deck with double windspeaker that just controlled the board early and then suddendly won with rockbiters and windspeakers in the midgame before GvG, but shamans are not able to safely control the board in the early game anymore with the strong early plays from GvG. That makes the deck very weak to druid, mechmage, hunter and mechshaman. Sadly that are too many weaknesses. :(
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Kripp is a highly skilled player and metas are not based off of the capabilities of highly skilled players. Windfury, along with a majority of shaman decks, really isn't viable atm.
I think the issue is being able to keep up a board presence, card count and then have the right cards in hand for a good combo. I could imagine a strong shaman wind fury deck working if it had something like the card drawing mechanics and tempo of Warrior Grim Patron decks but at the moment shaman just doesn't have the same strength in cards or mechanics.
I'm sure the dev team are working on making shaman a viable class again though with the next card expansion, be sure of that.
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No. Card draw is not such a big problem. Before nax no 3 drop could compete with feral spirit and they were very rarely killed the turn played. Now you just loose boardcontrol against decks like zoo and lightning storm is not enough to reliably come back. If shamans had a strong early game card like muster for battle or shielded minibot, they would be a very competitive class.
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You loose boardcontrol and then windfury is useless and shaman cant reliably clear a board. The only deck that could play it is mechshaman, since it has a very strong early game thanks to mechwarper, cogmaster and other mechs, but you dont need it it in that deck. There also were some leeroy windfury combo decks in the earlier stsges of the game, but thes are also weak after the nerf.
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Leeroy nerf didnt really affect windfury combo, 8 mana for Leeroy + Windfury + Rockbiter is still perfectly affordable.
But as already mentioned shaman card draw relies on board control (Mana Tide Totem) or having a empty hand (Jeeves) so it's pretty hard to get all the 3 pieces soon enough.
Early game isnt bad either for mech, Powermace does alot of work there but again there isnt enough card draw if the game isnt won soon enough you are basicly topdecking, that's why Fel Reaver as been added as an all-in win condition in mech shaman.
Windfury was also way more popular when Gadgetzan Auctioneer was 5 mana, and the many 1 mana shaman spells could be cycled quickly trough the deck to get the 3 combo pieces that used to include Windfury.
Short answer; nowdays it's hard to keep dead cards in hand for a shaman.
The problem is they have to live for a turn, and since they generally have sub-par stats not only is it difficult, they don't even trade well when they do die making it even easier for your opponent to kill your next one.
Things that can give windfury would arguably be better, but then it's only really useful in decks with more powerful minions (otherwise you might as well just run crackle) and if you're running a higher end deck than the extra damage windfury brings isn't really useful since you're no longer aggro (and can easily be a dead card). And comboing with Bloodlust isn't worth it since generally that alone could finish them off at that point, and with Rockbiter Weapon you're better off with Doomhammer which was run for awhile.
Oh, though I actually did try to make a windfury deck at one point. It does much better than expected but you pretty much have to hope either your opponent can't clear your threats until it's too late or they run out of destruction before you run out of cards. It's still a worse form of hyper-aggro than say face hunter though and all my above points still stand.
I made one that's probably a bit better than what you have right now, Miscreant. It's sort of a midranged/combo deck that uses windfury sparingly as a finisher.
I was just curious why more Shaman decks don't use windfury or focus it as much as others. I was recently watching Kripp do an arena run where he got 3 Firelords and a Windfury spells. For relatively cheap he could get a 6/6 windfury out and then Rock biter it twice for 12/6 with windfury. And of course we all seen the Zapp-o-matic one turn kills by now. So why isn't this used more?
It sounds pretty awesome given the new cards. But after looking I can't really find any workable or highly rated decks that use the idea. If there are I would definitely like to try them or try to work on them to incorporate new cards. I am just not a super great deck builder myself. I have tried to make a few and they just don't feel like they work. But if there is a good reason they are not used... well that is a different story.
Do unto others as they have done unto you! "Well met!"
Windfury is a very strong technique and I used to play a deck with double windspeaker that just controlled the board early and then suddendly won with rockbiters and windspeakers in the midgame before GvG, but shamans are not able to safely control the board in the early game anymore with the strong early plays from GvG. That makes the deck very weak to druid, mechmage, hunter and mechshaman. Sadly that are too many weaknesses. :(
''With great power comes great electricity bill.''
''I am Malganis. I am a TURTLE!''
Best card: Malygos
Well, face hunter stifles most fun decks into non existance. Fun does not = viable unfortunately.
Sadly thats true and one of the main reasons for the weakness of shaman in the current meta.
''With great power comes great electricity bill.''
''I am Malganis. I am a TURTLE!''
Best card: Malygos
Kripp is a highly skilled player and metas are not based off of the capabilities of highly skilled players. Windfury, along with a majority of shaman decks, really isn't viable atm.
I think the issue is being able to keep up a board presence, card count and then have the right cards in hand for a good combo. I could imagine a strong shaman wind fury deck working if it had something like the card drawing mechanics and tempo of Warrior Grim Patron decks but at the moment shaman just doesn't have the same strength in cards or mechanics.
I'm sure the dev team are working on making shaman a viable class again though with the next card expansion, be sure of that.
How to become ∞ at arena: - practice, practice, win, dominate, profit.
20K G's saved up every new expansion.
Shaman doesn't have enough card draw to be a combo deck and afford to have combo cads stuck in his hand till they are useful enough..
if shaman had reliable draw so he would be able to use those kind of combos.
No. Card draw is not such a big problem. Before nax no 3 drop could compete with feral spirit and they were very rarely killed the turn played. Now you just loose boardcontrol against decks like zoo and lightning storm is not enough to reliably come back. If shamans had a strong early game card like muster for battle or shielded minibot, they would be a very competitive class.
''With great power comes great electricity bill.''
''I am Malganis. I am a TURTLE!''
Best card: Malygos
I had someone in arena windfury + rockbiter an ogre for 18 damage on turn 7. My face felt that it was viable :P
Salt aside, i think there's some experimentation to be had with it. It just hasn't been popularized by a streamer, so it hasn't happened.
i tried it, believe me: It does not work in constructed.
''With great power comes great electricity bill.''
''I am Malganis. I am a TURTLE!''
Best card: Malygos
That's all well and good... but WHY doesn't it work.
Do unto others as they have done unto you! "Well met!"
You loose boardcontrol and then windfury is useless and shaman cant reliably clear a board. The only deck that could play it is mechshaman, since it has a very strong early game thanks to mechwarper, cogmaster and other mechs, but you dont need it it in that deck. There also were some leeroy windfury combo decks in the earlier stsges of the game, but thes are also weak after the nerf.
''With great power comes great electricity bill.''
''I am Malganis. I am a TURTLE!''
Best card: Malygos
Leeroy nerf didnt really affect windfury combo, 8 mana for Leeroy + Windfury + Rockbiter is still perfectly affordable.
But as already mentioned shaman card draw relies on board control (Mana Tide Totem) or having a empty hand (Jeeves) so it's pretty hard to get all the 3 pieces soon enough.
Early game isnt bad either for mech, Powermace does alot of work there but again there isnt enough card draw if the game isnt won soon enough you are basicly topdecking, that's why Fel Reaver as been added as an all-in win condition in mech shaman.
Windfury was also way more popular when Gadgetzan Auctioneer was 5 mana, and the many 1 mana shaman spells could be cycled quickly trough the deck to get the 3 combo pieces that used to include Windfury.
Short answer; nowdays it's hard to keep dead cards in hand for a shaman.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
I've been slowly working on a viable Windfury deck, and I believe aggro / midrange is the only option. Here is what I have at the moment:
You are playing 7 windfury cards and 2 lavashock in this deck. Sorry, but I can not take it serious. It just feels too unreliable.
''With great power comes great electricity bill.''
''I am Malganis. I am a TURTLE!''
Best card: Malygos
Thank you for the input, I appreciate it. Really
The problem is they have to live for a turn, and since they generally have sub-par stats not only is it difficult, they don't even trade well when they do die making it even easier for your opponent to kill your next one.
Things that can give windfury would arguably be better, but then it's only really useful in decks with more powerful minions (otherwise you might as well just run crackle) and if you're running a higher end deck than the extra damage windfury brings isn't really useful since you're no longer aggro (and can easily be a dead card). And comboing with Bloodlust isn't worth it since generally that alone could finish them off at that point, and with Rockbiter Weapon you're better off with Doomhammer which was run for awhile.
Oh, though I actually did try to make a windfury deck at one point. It does much better than expected but you pretty much have to hope either your opponent can't clear your threats until it's too late or they run out of destruction before you run out of cards. It's still a worse form of hyper-aggro than say face hunter though and all my above points still stand.
I made one that's probably a bit better than what you have right now, Miscreant. It's sort of a midranged/combo deck that uses windfury sparingly as a finisher.
That does make a lot more sense. I am new to the deck building side of the game, so my experiments can only improve from here. :P
I just went into it thinking an all out wind fury deck, but I forgot to balance it - my deck was much too dependent on card draw when I played it.