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Hi guys,
I'm trying to compete in some tournaments for the first time with midrange hunter. The deck is cheap and building the secondary and the tertiary decks is as cheap. I think it will be a great introduction to the competitive world without the need to craft some expensive legendaries or epics.
The main decks played are rogue and warrior so i tried to target these 2 archetypes and i made another decks against the board centric decks like token druid or zoolock.
My primary deck targets rogue with 2 rat traps and 1 vicious scalehide for the lifegain. I struggle a lot vs them and don't know how to improve the deck to beat them. Only rat traps helped me a lot but if i don't draw them i get wrecked. Savannah might be too slow vs rogue.
My secondary deck targets warrior. I try to outvalue them with dire frenzy + huge beasts. It's quite an easy matchup, i have a positive winrate with the anti-rogue deck on ladder. With this deck i may improve my match-up.
-1 tracking -1 kill command -1 unleash the hounds -1 vicious scalehide
+1 deadly shot +1 hunting party +1 tundra rhino +1 savannah highmane
My tertiary deck targets board centric decks like token druid. With 2 revenge of the wild + 2 unleash the hounds, it's an easy matchup.
-2 rat trap -1 deadly shot -1 kill command -1 savannah highmane
+2 headhunter's hatchet +1 revenge of the wild +1 snake trap +1 witchwood grizzly
What do you think about my decks, some stuff to improve? It's first time deckbuilding for a tournament and i'm not very confident about the decks.
Looks like you are substituting too much cards compared to primary. 25 cards should be core in all 3 decks. And you are changing tracking, kill command, 2x rat traps, hounds, scalehide, highmane. 7 cards total. I suggest you to check all 3 decks online to be compatible with specialist format.
you are right primary secondary and tertiary decks have to share 25 cards in common.
Now it's harder to deckbuild.
I modified my decks in order to have 25 core cards for the 3 decks.
Here's the 25 core cards :
Primary deck targeting rogue
+2 rat trap +1 deadly shot (vs edwin) + 1 kill command + 1 unleash the hounds
Rat traps and unleash the hounds to gain back the tempo
Secondary deck targeting warrior
+1 rat trap (warpath) +1 deadly shot +1 hunting party +2 savannah highmane
1 hunting party + 2 savannah to outvalue warriors with 2 dire frenzy + zuljin dire frenzy
Tertiary deck targeting druid/warlock
+2 headhunter's hatchet +1 revenge of the wild +1 snake trap +1 unleash the hounds
Finally i checked the specialist format. The secondary and the tertiary decks have to share 25 cards in common with the primary deck. But the secondary and the tertiary can have up to 10 different cards. So my first example works.
I've checked out the first page of midrange hunter decks in hsreplay (https://hsreplay.net/archetypes/137/midrange-hunter#tab=similar), and the "normal" ones have ~40% winrate vs rogue, while the ones with the secret package have ~50% winrate.
They run 4 to 5 secrets and subject 9. The secrets that seem to perform best overall are rat trap and snake trap
Hope it helps, good luck!
Ty for your help. Rat trap is a very good choice vs rogue, they can't play around it. I will put 2 rat traps then if it works that well. Midrange hunter is very good because it can out tempo most of the deck. But rogue does it better, only rat trap can overcome this issue.
What about warrior? what cards work well against them?
From the stats I have access to, it's difficult to tell which exact cards are better against warrior in particular, because contrary to the vs rogue case, both the secret version and the non secret seem to do well vs warrior.
However, if we base it on our understanding of the game, it's more than reasonable to think that cards like savannah highmane, dire frenzy and unleash the beast are better against warrior (because they generate big threats the warrior eventually will run out of removal for).
And while this is true overall, it can also be deceiving, because for example, the list that performs better against warrior only runs 1 highmane and 1 dire frenzy.
If I had to make a decision though, I'd be running double highmane, double unleash the beast, double frenzy and possibly even double rhino vs warrior.
When are you going to play in these tournaments anyway? Because if it's after HCT you'll probably be able to gather a lot of info from that, especially regarding the viability of scalehide and grizzly (which only a few people brought)
Oh and by the way, why no shimmerfly?
I will try the las vegas qualifiers.
Only 1 midrange hunter managed to top 1 in the las vegas qualifiers.
Here's his decklists : https://www.yaytears.com/battlefy/5c5cb96aa51388033572888c/5cb972387e5ad10344a1a02a?player=Moluk%232130
I took some of his changes to make mine. According to hs replay headhunter's hatchet has a very low winrate, i think it's a bad choice vs warrior quite useless and vs rogue, because the life total is vital and we can't afford to hit some minions. He put some lifedrinkers and wing blast vs rogue in order not lose any tempo if rogue doesn't put any minions on board T4, our removals become useless and lifedrinkers are a good t4 with the lifesteal.
Shimmerfliy has one of the best winrate according to hs replay, it might be a must have. Hitting a good curve t1, t2, t3 and having an additional spell might be more important than having huge beast with an additional highmane or unleash the beast.
I'm quite surprised that unleash the beast is the worst card of the deck.
Thx for your help. Everytime i won vs warrior was because i rush them down by flooding the board with beasts. Everytime they had boom mad genius and their meca with rush, i often lost the games even with 6 dire frenzied highmane. Trying to outvalue warriors is the wrong way to take i think. The right thing to do is putting all our dire frenzy on the tundra rhino and charge their face. We can play 2 rhino each turn. Unleash the beast and highmane are not that good since we can only play one beast per turn and warriors can deal with them easily.
Looking at the hs replay stats we can see that marked shot, wing blast for example have horrible winrate. They are the worst cards of the decklists including them.
Can't access the link :(
Totally agree
Could be worth it but I'm not very convinced, some could argue that doing nothing on turn 4 is better than "wasting" a slot. I think the problem is that it doesn't even accomplish that much when played
I think it is yeah
On it's own it's not good enough vs aggro and tempo, but it makes zul'jin really good, and zul'jin does have the highest drawn winrate, so unleash the beast being at the bottom winrate wise can be kinda misleading I guess.
This would be my initial take on it, although I would need more time to evaluate adding cards like grizzly, hogsteed, scalehide and deadly shot. Taking out marked shot as you said would also make sense in most cases
Thx atramentar. Analysing hs replay data highlights interesting facts.
https://www.yaytears.com/battlefy/5c5cb96aa51388033572888c
Click on moluk's deck he's top 1.
https://hsreplay.net/decks/q0cz7W1uXqXvZ9iPl2VLl/
This decklist shows that baited arrow is a better card than marked shot. That's why moluk put 2 baited arrow and 0 marked shot. Good choice from him since he won the tournament.
https://hsreplay.net/decks/SFxpOyydI9ukSnkryE3SJg/
This decklist shows that lifedrinker sucks ass. Haha. Dire frenzy has a very good winrate when played. It's the best T4 and the only one without shitty stats. Thus explaining why moluk didn't put any other T4 in his lists. I think having a better early game + rat trap vs rogue is a better choice to do than filling the t4 with lifedrinkers.
https://hsreplay.net/decks/dLYXzRj1kN2hWESvDInj2e/
Damn the grizzly is so bad. I don't why moluk put wing blast, lifedrinker and grizzly in his decklist targetting rogue. They all have such low winrate in all the decks including them.
https://hsreplay.net/decks/h2IWrGBXhNXmrPWHeoiKPh/
Baited arrow is one of the worst cards of this deck. Mulligan, drawn, played, all shitty stats.
https://hsreplay.net/decks/W1jllSMkca9yYovwdkKacc/
Revenge of the wild has a good winrate when played. It might be a better choice than baited arrow or any t4. A T4 play any 2 drop/springpaw/hogsteed + revenge of the wild looks like a better play than marked shot/lifedrinkers.
You're right. Zuljin high winrate might be thanks to unleash the beast.
You are a genius. I think we are into something good. Putting the secret package with subject 9 vs rogue is an amazing idea. Explosive trap has a bad winrate. 2 rat traps + snake trap + freezing trap + subject 9 might be the best choices of cards.
I just look at the data and try to guess as best as I can haha. You have my respect as well, tournaments are something else, people don't often think about how much goes into them.
Regarding explosive trap, cutting it would hurt subject 9, but I think you're right, second rat trap looks better.
Here's the final version, thx for your help atramentar :
primary deck :
secondary deck vs warrior, slow decks (mage, mech paladin, control shaman) :
tertiary deck vs board centric decks (token druid, zoolock, murloc shaman) :
I think that ironbeak owl is a great addition to all the decks.
Primary vs edwin
secondary vs magnetized mech/taunt to push damage
tertiary vs stalladris/vargoth/magic carpet
Cool, let me know how it goes!
Man I've been playing a lot of midrange hunter lately and you were right about the whole Marked Shot situation. It sucks, and it's better to not try to replace it with baited arrow, it's not good either.