Ugh..you people need to learn to not tell someone that wants to try something and build a deck around to cut and play something else. That is some poor advice and quite frankly is insulting.
High priest thekal I don't think is a good stand alone card and very bad in the late game if I am low on health. It's only ever good before turn 5 if I have not taken much damage.
1. Call to arms is also to fetch the snail for snapjaw not just for shirvallah and the sake of having 2 and less drops.
2. Control paladin normally runs corpsetaker and what I have for them is all that is needed, Tirion doesn't deserve a slot imo because stonehill basically is tirion but a decent taunt body for aggro and Uther is kinda the same purpose in that to stabilize and a 5/3 weapon.
3. One dead card isn't the end of the world.
4. The win condition is supposed to be Hakkar and that's the best you are gonna get for Control Paladin.
5. Immortal prelate require more buffs to be good and I will not cut important synergies for it. It's also not good enough as a 2 drop to fight against aggro. In most cases I think It's not gonna get the value and Immortal Prelate + Undatakah combo I think needs to be a very different deck for that to work.
Regarding the Hakkar win condition - if Hakkar is popular enough (perhaps because Mecha'thun Priest hangs around), control decks will just run Skulking Geist to make sure they can counter other control decks that are teching it in, and Skulking Geist will always be more popular because it can destroy valuable cards like Shield Slam and Omega Assembly in Odd Warrior. Not to mention he's a 10 mana deathrattle, and you'll need a plan to protect him from silence for a turn or you have no win condition at all. Ultimately, you need some back-up plan, and I think a small deathrattle package with Da Undatakah is the way to go.
Regarding Prince Liam - I think you're overly blasé with the whole "one dead card isn't the end of the world." You might be content with having a tech card in your deck that you explicitly don't want to play on curve, but the Prince is part of your win condition, and if you desperately need the tempo and play him early he gets you no late game value at all. You're counting on drawing two legendaries and playing 15 mana's worth of stuff before he has an impact, and because Hakkar is your sole win condition, you'll have to do that in just about every game. One dead card is the difference between winning and losing a lot of games. Not to mention your only card draw is a) hoping that there are still 1 and 2 drops in your deck when you cast Call to Arms, and b) a couple of cycle tools in the form of Flash of Light. All you need to make Hakkar, the Soulflayer good enough is to count on your opponent to draw cards much faster than you - Prince Liam is an overly fancy combo that will lose you games.
1. Call to arms is also to fetch the snail for snapjaw not just for shirvallah and the sake of having 2 and less drops.
2. Control paladin normally runs corpsetaker and what I have for them is all that is needed, Tirion doesn't deserve a slot imo because stonehill basically is tirion but a decent taunt body for aggro and Uther is kinda the same purpose in that to stabilize and a 5/3 weapon.
3. One dead card isn't the end of the world.
4. The win condition is supposed to be Hakkar and that's the best you are gonna get for Control Paladin.
5. Immortal prelate require more buffs to be good and I will not cut important synergies for it. It's also not good enough as a 2 drop to fight against aggro. In most cases I think It's not gonna get the value and Immortal Prelate + Undatakah combo I think needs to be a very different deck for that to work.
Regarding the Hakkar win condition - if Hakkar is popular enough (perhaps because Mecha'thun Priest hangs around), control decks will just run Skulking Geist to make sure they can counter other control decks that are teching it in, and Skulking Geist will always be more popular because it can destroy valuable cards like Shield Slam and Omega Assembly in Odd Warrior. Not to mention he's a 10 mana deathrattle, and you'll need a plan to protect him from silence for a turn or you have no win condition at all. Ultimately, you need some back-up plan, and I think a small deathrattle package with Da Undatakah is the way to go.
Regarding Prince Liam - I think you're overly blasé with the whole "one dead card isn't the end of the world." You might be content with having a tech card in your deck that you explicitly don't want to play on curve, but the Prince is part of your win condition, and if you desperately need the tempo and play him early he gets you no late game value at all. You're counting on drawing two legendaries and playing 15 mana's worth of stuff before he has an impact, and because Hakkar is your sole win condition, you'll have to do that in just about every game. One dead card is the difference between winning and losing a lot of games. Not to mention your only card draw is a) hoping that there are still 1 and 2 drops in your deck when you cast Call to Arms, and b) a couple of cycle tools in the form of Flash of Light. All you need to make Hakkar, the Soulflayer good enough is to count on your opponent to draw cards much faster than you - Prince Liam is an overly fancy combo that will lose you games.
I am cutting zola for undatakah but I absolutely will not cut anything else for immortal prelate, needs more card draw and buffs to be good and that is a different deck.
One dead card is not the difference between winning or losing. If Hakkar and Liam don't work out then oh well, that is something I will have to face evntually, there are 28 other cards in the deck that can come to good use in the scenerios that they are for. Prince Liam will at least serve as a 5/5 body if it doesn't work out, it's better than nothing, and I'm not being optimistic I'm just being realistic.
I understand that you are trying to help me out but you and a lot of people seem to have the assumption that I'm very competitive when I'm not. I don't play the game to win I play to have fun and this what the deck is for. Fun. Not meta, fun. It's the new expansion and I'm gonna try new things either you think it's good or not.
Ugh..you people need to learn to not tell someone that wants to try something and build a deck around to cut and play something else. That is some poor advice and quite frankly is insulting.
High priest thekal I don't think is a good stand alone card and very bad in the late game if I am low on health. It's only ever good before turn 5 if I have not taken much damage.
I don't think people here are trying to insult you, and I'm sorry that you're upset. I think the point being made here is that there are too many "somethings" around which you're trying to build a deck - you've got a Stubborn Gastropod + Snapjaw Shellfighter combo, a Hakkar, the Soulflayer + Prince Liam combo, you've got a Corpsetaker package. It's a little bit of a lot of stuff, and it makes it hard to drive toward success for any one of them. Prince Liam is better for you in a deck with more 1 drops in case you need to play him early, Call to Arms is better in a deck with more impactful 1 and 2 drops (maybe a Doomsayer or Righteous Protector), and Hakkar, the Soulflayer is going to be more consistent if you can take multiple shots at the deathrattle.
Regarding High Priest Thekal, I think your evaluation is not quite right. 5 armor is worth about 1 mana, and a 3/4 minion is already worth 3, so you really don't need much health to get value out of it (assuming you can heal back the health that's converted to armor). That said, I'm not sure you've got enough healing here to ensure you'll get that extra value out of healing back the health he takes from you, so I wouldn't add it in without a much larger heal focus.
Silence is a HUGE weakness of this deck. Also, if enemies start to tech Skulking Geist, the deck has 0 win conditions thus it’s dead.
Yeah well that's control paladin for you doesn't have any good win conditions and Hakkar is the best it can do. And I hate that "it's weak to silence" mentality lol basically anything with an effect is weak to silence and this deck has lots of silenceable targets so chances are they are gonna get silenced instead of Hakkar because I won't be playing Hakkar until late in the game before then opponent won't know what I'm playing.
And I seriously doubt people will be teching in skulking geist when its the new expansion that never happens until late in the expansion when the meta is established and if geist is actually needed.
The thing is that in this case, silence can disable you from winning the game and not just removing effect of one minion. Problem is that Hakkar is 10 mana so you can’t do anything the turn you play it. You can get SMOrced to death by enemy ignoring him, he can be silenced or even worse, sapped and you just lose. Though people are now suggesting Da Undatakah so it could have more chances now. But still, if I was you, I would definitely remove Shirvallah, the Tiger. Some better defensive tools instead of him would be recommended because you wouldn’t believe how fast you can find yourself in trouble while playing control deck while being even just a little greedy.
”Ugh..you people need to learn to not tell someone that wants to try something and build a deck around to cut and play something else.”
If that’s your opinion, then don’t say that you want ideas. Just admit you uploaded the deck as a thread so you could try and get people to say “Cool!”
”Ugh..you people need to learn to not tell someone that wants to try something and build a deck around to cut and play something else.”
If that’s your opinion, then don’t say that you want ideas. Just admit you uploaded the deck as a thread so you could try and get people to say “Cool!”
You mis understand me. I want to try the new combos, those people told me to cut those and basically play a regular control or midrange paladin. I am open to suggestions, I took the righteous protector and da undatakah suggestions.
A lot of you are people are doing is just basically trying to tell me not play this deck and that is VERY BAD ADVICE. It's insulting. I thought hard on this deck.
You know what if people are just gonna tell me to cut the combos I want to try and play a regular boring midrange or control pally or try to change my mind on playing this deck due to just telling downsides of the combo that I am well aware of then what's the fucking point of this now if you are all too stupid to realize that it's the new expansion people want to try new things.
Seriously, people telling younthat this combo is bad is not to insult you. If you thought long and harhard on this and you're happy with it, that is great. It still does not male it good or even viable. Fact is, you need something to trigger Hakkar the turn you play him, which isn't possible in Pally. Also, the "weak to silence" argument is actually a very good one, because even though everything is week to silence, not every wincon is. Maly is weak to silence, true, but Maly decks dont give you the time to silence him. They kill you the turn they play him. You need to find a way to play and kill Hakkar the same turn and then this will work. Or, you need to find an alternate wincon that you can rely on should Hakkar fail. You should also think about the way to beat decks that don't care about Hakkar, specifically high tempo aggro decks. So, work on the control pally shell first.
Seriously, people telling younthat this combo is bad is not to insult you. If you thought long and harhard on this and you're happy with it, that is great. It still does not male it good or even viable. Fact is, you need something to trigger Hakkar the turn you play him, which isn't possible in Pally. Also, the "weak to silence" argument is actually a very good one, because even though everything is week to silence, not every wincon is. Maly is weak to silence, true, but Maly decks dont give you the time to silence him. They kill you the turn they play him. You need to find a way to play and kill Hakkar the same turn and then this will work. Or, you need to find an alternate wincon that you can rely on should Hakkar fail. You should also think about the way to beat decks that don't care about Hakkar, specifically high tempo aggro decks. So, work on the control pally shell first.
I never said it was good or viable but there are people telling me to cut the combo. I am fine with discussing tech options or replacements but it is insulting to tell someone to not play something that they want to play and just point out the downside of the combo. I came in here knowing that Hakkar gets silenced and bye bye combo not everything is perfect things have weaknesses so that's why I put Zola in as a backup, but someone suggested da undatakah and I took that and I thank you for that and it's getting my creative juices going. I wanted to use call to arms mainly to fetch gastropod and some suggested righteous protector over saronite to make call to arms better defensively and I took that suggestion. But after that people just told me to cut the combos I want to try and that defeats the purpose of this deck, and I don't wanna play a regular control paladin during the new expansion. And you are right the shell probably does need to be fixed but some of the suggestions to fix it I do not agree with, and I don't see what else to replace the corpsetaker and the call to arms package because that's pretty much one of the good things pally has going for it.
”Ugh..you people need to learn to not tell someone that wants to try something and build a deck around to cut and play something else.”
If that’s your opinion, then don’t say that you want ideas. Just admit you uploaded the deck as a thread so you could try and get people to say “Cool!”
You mis understand me. I want to try the new combos, those people told me to cut those and basically play a regular control or midrange paladin. I am open to suggestions, I took the righteous protector and da undatakah suggestions.
A lot of you are people are doing is just basically trying to tell me not play this deck and that is VERY BAD ADVICE. It's insulting. I thought hard on this deck.
If you’re just trying out new combos, I’ve got some ideas. Let’s cut the equality concentrate, because its run in every “boring” control paladin, and play holy wrath and baleful banked in its place. Righteous protector, cause it’s not a combo piece, and play some 4 mana 8/8s with taunt. We can activate them with the heals. Let’s slide run a malygos package, so when they silence your soulflayer, they’re all out of silence. In fact, let’s also run prismatic lens and mechathun. Let’s just make a deck of win conditions. That’d be really fun.
@OP - The combo itself is a really good use of Liam and Soulflayer, what others are trying to tell you in this thread is that your deck lacks on everything else: draw to get to combo, sustain, etc. Your deck is an all in deck but has no way to succeed if the combo gets broken or can just get face-rolled by bad draw, which this deck would/is very prone to.
Also, whether or not your intentions are for a deck to be competitive is fairly irrelevant when you post it to the community at large. You have a deck with a cool win condition. If a deck is going to lose the majority of time in the name of fun though... well why ask for critique at all.
I suggest going back and carefully reading what others are saying and maybe reassess your OriginalPost and think about what your asking for by posting this deck. There are some very high level players that hangout in this forum including PROS, we all benefit by listening to each other as a community. The bottom line is if you don't want constructive criticism or critiques in general don't post asking for it and be upset when you get it.
I will leave this thread open for now, because it is a cool concept that could be refined as a playable deck. However, if the responses continue to degenerate we'll deal with that then.
How many times do I have to say this...I'm upset because people a lot of people are telling me to cut the combos I mentioned and that defeats the purpose of the deck. I am well aware of it's downsides it's obvious I built this deck with that in mind that's why I had zola as backup. But if people are gonna just be like that then there is no point on me continuing on with this discussion thread if the discussion is just to tell me not to play the combo.
Yet, Jade Druid was still alive and well even with Geist. Stop looking for ways to shit on paladin and just accept that the combo deck will still work. just use Da Undetakah to gain Hakar's deathrattle and VOILA!! Sorry you're pissed that something other than odd paladin is going to be tier 1. Go shit on other class deck theorycrafts and leave paladin alone for once.
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Ugh..you people need to learn to not tell someone that wants to try something and build a deck around to cut and play something else. That is some poor advice and quite frankly is insulting.
High priest thekal I don't think is a good stand alone card and very bad in the late game if I am low on health. It's only ever good before turn 5 if I have not taken much damage.
Regarding the Hakkar win condition - if Hakkar is popular enough (perhaps because Mecha'thun Priest hangs around), control decks will just run Skulking Geist to make sure they can counter other control decks that are teching it in, and Skulking Geist will always be more popular because it can destroy valuable cards like Shield Slam and Omega Assembly in Odd Warrior. Not to mention he's a 10 mana deathrattle, and you'll need a plan to protect him from silence for a turn or you have no win condition at all. Ultimately, you need some back-up plan, and I think a small deathrattle package with Da Undatakah is the way to go.
Regarding Prince Liam - I think you're overly blasé with the whole "one dead card isn't the end of the world." You might be content with having a tech card in your deck that you explicitly don't want to play on curve, but the Prince is part of your win condition, and if you desperately need the tempo and play him early he gets you no late game value at all. You're counting on drawing two legendaries and playing 15 mana's worth of stuff before he has an impact, and because Hakkar is your sole win condition, you'll have to do that in just about every game. One dead card is the difference between winning and losing a lot of games. Not to mention your only card draw is a) hoping that there are still 1 and 2 drops in your deck when you cast Call to Arms, and b) a couple of cycle tools in the form of Flash of Light. All you need to make Hakkar, the Soulflayer good enough is to count on your opponent to draw cards much faster than you - Prince Liam is an overly fancy combo that will lose you games.
I am cutting zola for undatakah but I absolutely will not cut anything else for immortal prelate, needs more card draw and buffs to be good and that is a different deck.
One dead card is not the difference between winning or losing. If Hakkar and Liam don't work out then oh well, that is something I will have to face evntually, there are 28 other cards in the deck that can come to good use in the scenerios that they are for. Prince Liam will at least serve as a 5/5 body if it doesn't work out, it's better than nothing, and I'm not being optimistic I'm just being realistic.
I understand that you are trying to help me out but you and a lot of people seem to have the assumption that I'm very competitive when I'm not. I don't play the game to win I play to have fun and this what the deck is for. Fun. Not meta, fun. It's the new expansion and I'm gonna try new things either you think it's good or not.
Silence is a HUGE weakness of this deck. Also, if enemies start to tech Skulking Geist, the deck has 0 win conditions thus it’s dead.
I don't think people here are trying to insult you, and I'm sorry that you're upset. I think the point being made here is that there are too many "somethings" around which you're trying to build a deck - you've got a Stubborn Gastropod + Snapjaw Shellfighter combo, a Hakkar, the Soulflayer + Prince Liam combo, you've got a Corpsetaker package. It's a little bit of a lot of stuff, and it makes it hard to drive toward success for any one of them. Prince Liam is better for you in a deck with more 1 drops in case you need to play him early, Call to Arms is better in a deck with more impactful 1 and 2 drops (maybe a Doomsayer or Righteous Protector), and Hakkar, the Soulflayer is going to be more consistent if you can take multiple shots at the deathrattle.
Regarding High Priest Thekal, I think your evaluation is not quite right. 5 armor is worth about 1 mana, and a 3/4 minion is already worth 3, so you really don't need much health to get value out of it (assuming you can heal back the health that's converted to armor). That said, I'm not sure you've got enough healing here to ensure you'll get that extra value out of healing back the health he takes from you, so I wouldn't add it in without a much larger heal focus.
I think that Righteous Protector would be much better than Saronite Taskmaster
Yeah well that's control paladin for you doesn't have any good win conditions and Hakkar is the best it can do. And I hate that "it's weak to silence" mentality lol basically anything with an effect is weak to silence and this deck has lots of silenceable targets so chances are they are gonna get silenced instead of Hakkar because I won't be playing Hakkar until late in the game before then opponent won't know what I'm playing.
And I seriously doubt people will be teching in skulking geist when its the new expansion that never happens until late in the expansion when the meta is established and if geist is actually needed.
The thing is that in this case, silence can disable you from winning the game and not just removing effect of one minion. Problem is that Hakkar is 10 mana so you can’t do anything the turn you play it. You can get SMOrced to death by enemy ignoring him, he can be silenced or even worse, sapped and you just lose. Though people are now suggesting Da Undatakah so it could have more chances now. But still, if I was you, I would definitely remove Shirvallah, the Tiger. Some better defensive tools instead of him would be recommended because you wouldn’t believe how fast you can find yourself in trouble while playing control deck while being even just a little greedy.
“I’m open to ideas guys!”
”Ugh..you people need to learn to not tell someone that wants to try something and build a deck around to cut and play something else.”
If that’s your opinion, then don’t say that you want ideas. Just admit you uploaded the deck as a thread so you could try and get people to say “Cool!”
You mis understand me. I want to try the new combos, those people told me to cut those and basically play a regular control or midrange paladin. I am open to suggestions, I took the righteous protector and da undatakah suggestions.
A lot of you are people are doing is just basically trying to tell me not play this deck and that is VERY BAD ADVICE. It's insulting. I thought hard on this deck.
You know what if people are just gonna tell me to cut the combos I want to try and play a regular boring midrange or control pally or try to change my mind on playing this deck due to just telling downsides of the combo that I am well aware of then what's the fucking point of this now if you are all too stupid to realize that it's the new expansion people want to try new things.
All fun and games until someone with a stronger deck uses Geist - would work better after Geist is rotated out.
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Nice click bait. :P
Seriously, people telling younthat this combo is bad is not to insult you. If you thought long and harhard on this and you're happy with it, that is great. It still does not male it good or even viable. Fact is, you need something to trigger Hakkar the turn you play him, which isn't possible in Pally. Also, the "weak to silence" argument is actually a very good one, because even though everything is week to silence, not every wincon is. Maly is weak to silence, true, but Maly decks dont give you the time to silence him. They kill you the turn they play him. You need to find a way to play and kill Hakkar the same turn and then this will work. Or, you need to find an alternate wincon that you can rely on should Hakkar fail. You should also think about the way to beat decks that don't care about Hakkar, specifically high tempo aggro decks. So, work on the control pally shell first.
I never said it was good or viable but there are people telling me to cut the combo. I am fine with discussing tech options or replacements but it is insulting to tell someone to not play something that they want to play and just point out the downside of the combo. I came in here knowing that Hakkar gets silenced and bye bye combo not everything is perfect things have weaknesses so that's why I put Zola in as a backup, but someone suggested da undatakah and I took that and I thank you for that and it's getting my creative juices going. I wanted to use call to arms mainly to fetch gastropod and some suggested righteous protector over saronite to make call to arms better defensively and I took that suggestion. But after that people just told me to cut the combos I want to try and that defeats the purpose of this deck, and I don't wanna play a regular control paladin during the new expansion. And you are right the shell probably does need to be fixed but some of the suggestions to fix it I do not agree with, and I don't see what else to replace the corpsetaker and the call to arms package because that's pretty much one of the good things pally has going for it.
If you’re just trying out new combos, I’ve got some ideas. Let’s cut the equality concentrate, because its run in every “boring” control paladin, and play holy wrath and baleful banked in its place. Righteous protector, cause it’s not a combo piece, and play some 4 mana 8/8s with taunt. We can activate them with the heals. Let’s slide run a malygos package, so when they silence your soulflayer, they’re all out of silence. In fact, let’s also run prismatic lens and mechathun. Let’s just make a deck of win conditions. That’d be really fun.
@OP - The combo itself is a really good use of Liam and Soulflayer, what others are trying to tell you in this thread is that your deck lacks on everything else: draw to get to combo, sustain, etc. Your deck is an all in deck but has no way to succeed if the combo gets broken or can just get face-rolled by bad draw, which this deck would/is very prone to.
Also, whether or not your intentions are for a deck to be competitive is fairly irrelevant when you post it to the community at large. You have a deck with a cool win condition. If a deck is going to lose the majority of time in the name of fun though... well why ask for critique at all.
I suggest going back and carefully reading what others are saying and maybe reassess your OriginalPost and think about what your asking for by posting this deck. There are some very high level players that hangout in this forum including PROS, we all benefit by listening to each other as a community. The bottom line is if you don't want constructive criticism or critiques in general don't post asking for it and be upset when you get it.
I will leave this thread open for now, because it is a cool concept that could be refined as a playable deck. However, if the responses continue to degenerate we'll deal with that then.
ITT - OP can't take criticism
How many times do I have to say this...I'm upset because people a lot of people are telling me to cut the combos I mentioned and that defeats the purpose of the deck. I am well aware of it's downsides it's obvious I built this deck with that in mind that's why I had zola as backup. But if people are gonna just be like that then there is no point on me continuing on with this discussion thread if the discussion is just to tell me not to play the combo.
Yet, Jade Druid was still alive and well even with Geist. Stop looking for ways to shit on paladin and just accept that the combo deck will still work. just use Da Undetakah to gain Hakar's deathrattle and VOILA!! Sorry you're pissed that something other than odd paladin is going to be tier 1. Go shit on other class deck theorycrafts and leave paladin alone for once.
I eat Kingsbane rogues for breakfast.