So, i was theorycrafting a bit, but i don't have the cards to test yet.
And i realised that any Warlock deck is bound to DK card, including Renolock. Understandably so, since it gets you into the lategame and with self sustain. Basically, if you get into lategame, your deck should be as strong as DK Gul'dan in order to have some chances. The same is true for other classes as well.
In short, Wild meta, in lategame, is dominated by DK cards. You must deal with them (and with combo/mill, but that's another story).
I was wondering if Rin could be an equivalent solution, in a Controlock shell, without DK, and especially against DKs.
Is Azari a feasible solution to cut short the opponent's lategame? Maybe with accelerating tools like Bloodbloom?
Rin is too slow in some matchups and in the slower matchups she is definately a win condition on her own. E.g. I play with a slow Big Spell Mage and concede if Rin is played and killed early. Just don't add Skull of the Man'ari. :-D
Oh wow. I own Rin, and have tried to use her before without much luck. Just had a look at what she becomes... Wow. I never knew of Azari, the Devourer. Still, raw, that's 46 mana you need to spend. Yeah, GG if you hit it though!
Summoning Portal could get her out sooner. I know there's plenty of Warlock cards to sac your creatures. If you went wild, could Emperor Thaurissan help?
Shit, now that I've seen this, I want to pull it off. Just the once!
In short, Wild meta, in lategame, is dominated by DK cards. You must deal with them (and with combo/mill, but that's another story).
Wild lategame is dominated by kingsbane, druid OTKs and coldlight oracles. Cubelock is probably the only wild deck where the DK is a win condition as powerful as they are in standard, and cubelock has plenty of other ways to kill you. In all other (top tier) decks, the DK is a support card that helps you reach your win condition at best
Rin is too slow for the purpose of beating lategame decks in wild, if that's your goal. She's best for dealing with value and attrition decks and there's very few of those in wild outside of bottom ranks because the three items mentioned above are so popular and powerful
I play Renolock, and I don't own Rin. I don't ever feel the need to. My deck is inherently slow and reactive, so it should be susceptible to Rin, but all but one or two times I've played against her in a mirror match, she didn't affect the game. The opponent spent too much mana/time casting the spells that they fell behind in tempo and ultimately lost on value. Twice they actually pulled off the combo when I had like 6 or so cards left, and only one of them actually cost me the game. Rin is just too slow.
I just don't see a deck that it'd be good against. For combo Druids, you're better off with Dirty Rat/Deathlord (once you know they've pulled out both Oaken Summons). A smart Kingsbane rogue player would be able to play around Azil; he wouldn't ever leave the card in the deck with Azil in your hand (you're pretty hosed in this matchup anyway).
I can't say how good Rin is since I never played her, but when I faced her with a deck that it specifically is targeted to hurt (Renolock), Rin just ultimately doesn't work because it is too slow.
Pulling off with Skull wouldn't be a problem, as i don't have the Skull. :p
But yeah, burning only a couple of cards is my issue, as by then the opponent with a DK would have already killed me with sheer hero power i guess.
Honestly, I don't think Siphon Life is a win condition by itself. The battlecry of Bloodreaver Gul'dan can win by itself if the enemy lacks a good answer. Rin can be a wincondition, but is sensitive to Silence and pressure as a 4/4 and 5/5 for 10 mana generally isn't enough to counter whatever the opponent is playing. If you pressure the Warlock enough, you can easily force him not to play the ritual at all.
DK Gul'dan is in my opinion a far superior card if you're missing both.
If a game goes to fatigue, siphon life is absolutely a win condition. A six health swing per turn is absurdly powerful, and would make the card viable even without any demons. A card that gives you two win conditions, one short term and one long term, is part of why the DK is so powerful.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So, i was theorycrafting a bit, but i don't have the cards to test yet.
And i realised that any Warlock deck is bound to DK card, including Renolock. Understandably so, since it gets you into the lategame and with self sustain. Basically, if you get into lategame, your deck should be as strong as DK Gul'dan in order to have some chances. The same is true for other classes as well.
In short, Wild meta, in lategame, is dominated by DK cards. You must deal with them (and with combo/mill, but that's another story).
I was wondering if Rin could be an equivalent solution, in a Controlock shell, without DK, and especially against DKs.
Is Azari a feasible solution to cut short the opponent's lategame? Maybe with accelerating tools like Bloodbloom?
Or are portals just too slow no matter what?
You need both... Gul'dan is far too strong to skip.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Rin is too slow in some matchups and in the slower matchups she is definately a win condition on her own. E.g. I play with a slow Big Spell Mage and concede if Rin is played and killed early. Just don't add Skull of the Man'ari. :-D
Pulling off with Skull wouldn't be a problem, as i don't have the Skull. :p
But yeah, burning only a couple of cards is my issue, as by then the opponent with a DK would have already killed me with sheer hero power i guess.
Oh wow. I own Rin, and have tried to use her before without much luck. Just had a look at what she becomes... Wow. I never knew of Azari, the Devourer. Still, raw, that's 46 mana you need to spend. Yeah, GG if you hit it though!
Summoning Portal could get her out sooner. I know there's plenty of Warlock cards to sac your creatures. If you went wild, could Emperor Thaurissan help?
Shit, now that I've seen this, I want to pull it off. Just the once!
Haha, can you somehow force your opponent to play Millhouse Manastorm?
Wild lategame is dominated by kingsbane, druid OTKs and coldlight oracles. Cubelock is probably the only wild deck where the DK is a win condition as powerful as they are in standard, and cubelock has plenty of other ways to kill you. In all other (top tier) decks, the DK is a support card that helps you reach your win condition at best
Rin is too slow for the purpose of beating lategame decks in wild, if that's your goal. She's best for dealing with value and attrition decks and there's very few of those in wild outside of bottom ranks because the three items mentioned above are so popular and powerful
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
Craft Guldan, try subbing something for rin
Renounce Darkness
I play Renolock, and I don't own Rin. I don't ever feel the need to. My deck is inherently slow and reactive, so it should be susceptible to Rin, but all but one or two times I've played against her in a mirror match, she didn't affect the game. The opponent spent too much mana/time casting the spells that they fell behind in tempo and ultimately lost on value. Twice they actually pulled off the combo when I had like 6 or so cards left, and only one of them actually cost me the game. Rin is just too slow.
I just don't see a deck that it'd be good against. For combo Druids, you're better off with Dirty Rat/Deathlord (once you know they've pulled out both Oaken Summons). A smart Kingsbane rogue player would be able to play around Azil; he wouldn't ever leave the card in the deck with Azil in your hand (you're pretty hosed in this matchup anyway).
I can't say how good Rin is since I never played her, but when I faced her with a deck that it specifically is targeted to hurt (Renolock), Rin just ultimately doesn't work because it is too slow.
If a game goes to fatigue, siphon life is absolutely a win condition. A six health swing per turn is absurdly powerful, and would make the card viable even without any demons. A card that gives you two win conditions, one short term and one long term, is part of why the DK is so powerful.