Proof that just adding 4 rares makes the world of difference in a deck (went from stuck at rank 10 to climbing quickly to rank 5), and unfortunately it was necessary based on how stacked the meta is with tier 1 decks.
Congrats? My point was you should make a deck that doesn't die to Hunter/Mage spam with the least amount of advanced mechanics as possible. Getting to Rank 5 doesn't mean much because the majority of players on ladder aren't really that good to be honest. If you are a strong veteran player, you should be able to take it to most people even with a bad "deck" as long as you understand how to play around the meta decks that everyone just copies. So once again, rank doesn't mean much. Focus on what it takes to get a new player acclimated to the game and to rank 15 quickly since the ladder at the start is a lot different than the middle of the ladder.
Proof that just adding 4 rares makes the world of difference in a deck (went from stuck at rank 10 to climbing quickly to rank 5), and unfortunately it was necessary based on how stacked the meta is with tier 1 decks.
Congrats? My point was you should make a deck that doesn't die to Hunter/Mage spam with the least amount of advanced mechanics as possible. Getting to Rank 5 doesn't mean much because the majority of players on ladder aren't really that good to be honest. If you are a strong veteran player, you should be able to take it to most people even with a bad "deck" as long as you understand how to play around the meta decks that everyone just copies. So once again, rank doesn't mean much. Focus on what it takes to get a new player acclimated to the game and to rank 15 quickly since the ladder at the start is a lot different than the middle of the ladder.
Unless you actually tried you'll realize that to beat optimized meta decks you can't just use a "bad deck" even as a strong veteran player. The road from rank 10 to rank 5 is filled with legendary-card-back players playing tier 1 meta decks (even if the players are not playing perfectly, the sheer brokenness of some of the decks gives them the P2W advantage), so if these decks can beat that, what are you trying to say? I just showed you that the deck can be piloted to rank 5 and you say it sucks? It's not good for new players? I have no clue what you're trying to say... Please link a deck as an example of what you think is affordable and good for new players.
All I hear from you is theory-craft like "oh, a veteran player can hit rank 5 with ANY deck." While that may have been true in the past, it is absolutely NOT true in modern Hearthstone. I'm not saying a new player has to hit rank 5 at all. They shouldn't if they don't have the skill yet. That should be the only reason they aren't rank 5 though. It should NOT be because their deck is not good enough based on their card collection. These days your deck actually has to be good enough, and I just linked a deck that is good enough. Are you trying to say new players should only play the basic decks included at the start of Hearthstone because they don't have any mechanics?
Explain your qualifications for making the claims you are making about how these decks are not helpful to new players and that they are not capable to win and to rank up. I have decklists, tutorial videos, proof of climb, etc. and people are very grateful for the decklists and interested in improving them with their ideas. Constructive criticism is encouraged but I don't see you contributing any concrete examples or decklists on how to improve.
Unless you actually tried you'll realize that to beat optimized meta decks you can't just use a "bad deck" even as a strong veteran player. The road from rank 10 to rank 5 is filled with legendary-card-back players playing tier 1 meta decks (even if the players are not playing perfectly, the sheer brokenness of some of the decks gives them the P2W advantage), so if these decks can beat that, what are you trying to say? I just showed you that the deck can be piloted to rank 5 and you say it sucks? It's not good for new players? I have no clue what you're trying to say... Please link a deck as an example of what you think is affordable and good for new players.
All I hear from you is theory-craft like "oh, a veteran player can hit rank 5 with ANY deck." While that may have been true in the past, it is absolutely NOT true in modern Hearthstone. I'm not saying a new player has to hit rank 5 at all. They shouldn't if they don't have the skill yet. That should be the only reason they aren't rank 5 though. It should NOT be because their deck is not good enough based on their card collection. These days your deck actually has to be good enough, and I just linked a deck that is good enough. Are you trying to say new players should only play the basic decks included at the start of Hearthstone because they don't have any mechanics?
I just wanted to chime in my support and confirmation of what LOKShadow is saying here.
Some background if you don't know me: I've played since open beta and reached legend around 20 times, at best I've been in top 50 legend.
Every once in a while I build some budget decks (not quite plebstone compatible as I use rares - but no adventures/epics/legendaries) and see how well I can climb with them and what the ladder looks like from that perspective. In Journey to Un'Goro, for example, I piloted a budget Hunter deck to rank 4. I usually stop at around rank 5, as pushing a budget deck all the way to legend, while perhaps possible, is not something I want to venture into voluntarily.
This season I once again went ahead to build a budget deck and started the climb on NA (I mainly play on EU). Starting from rank 25, it took only until rank 17 until the more than half of my opponents were playing meta decks. It's hard to say whether they were missing some cards, but things like Highlander Priest started appearing already at that point.
Now, even a poorly piloted Highlander Priest, Jade Druid, Tempo Rogue, or Evolve Shaman wipes the floor with most decks a new player can build. At 17, players made tons of mistakes that I could abuse, but wins were still something to fight for.
I am currently rank 9 with the deck, and I have not seen any budget decks for a few ranks now. Players still make some key mistakes that give me outs to steal wins, but a number of games are simply unwinnable. My stats from 25 to 9 are 57-26 (68.7%). From 13 to 9 I'm 17-8 (68.0%). I have won tons of games by a hair, and if my deck was missing rares I'm not sure if I could progress at all.
With just rares, it is possible to build some reasonably good decks. However, the basic decks Hearthstone gives you and the basic card pool in general are simply bad by current standards, and in a game this old, any player will hit a wall just a few games in with those.
Unless you actually tried you'll realize that to beat optimized meta decks you can't just use a "bad deck" even as a strong veteran player. The road from rank 10 to rank 5 is filled with legendary-card-back players playing tier 1 meta decks (even if the players are not playing perfectly, the sheer brokenness of some of the decks gives them the P2W advantage), so if these decks can beat that, what are you trying to say? I just showed you that the deck can be piloted to rank 5 and you say it sucks? It's not good for new players? I have no clue what you're trying to say... Please link a deck as an example of what you think is affordable and good for new players.
All I hear from you is theory-craft like "oh, a veteran player can hit rank 5 with ANY deck." While that may have been true in the past, it is absolutely NOT true in modern Hearthstone. I'm not saying a new player has to hit rank 5 at all. They shouldn't if they don't have the skill yet. That should be the only reason they aren't rank 5 though. It should NOT be because their deck is not good enough based on their card collection. These days your deck actually has to be good enough, and I just linked a deck that is good enough. Are you trying to say new players should only play the basic decks included at the start of Hearthstone because they don't have any mechanics?
I just wanted to chime in my support and confirmation of what LOKShadow is saying here.
Some background if you don't know me: I've played since open beta and reached legend around 20 times, at best I've been in top 50 legend.
Every once in a while I build some budget decks (not quite plebstone compatible as I use rares - but no adventures/epics/legendaries) and see how well I can climb with them and what the ladder looks like from that perspective. In Journey to Un'Goro, for example, I piloted a budget Hunter deck to rank 4. I usually stop at around rank 5, as pushing a budget deck all the way to legend, while perhaps possible, is not something I want to venture into voluntarily.
This season I once again went ahead to build a budget deck and started the climb on NA (I mainly play on EU). Starting from rank 25, it took only until rank 17 until the more than half of my opponents were playing meta decks. It's hard to say whether they were missing some cards, but things like Highlander Priest started appearing already at that point.
Now, even a poorly piloted Highlander Priest, Jade Druid, Tempo Rogue, or Evolve Shaman wipes the floor with most decks a new player can build. At 17, players made tons of mistakes that I could abuse, but wins were still something to fight for.
I am currently rank 9 with the deck, and I have not seen any budget decks for a few ranks now. Players still make some key mistakes that give me outs to steal wins, but a number of games are simply unwinnable. My stats from 25 to 9 are 57-26 (68.7%). From 13 to 9 I'm 17-8 (68.0%). I have won tons of games by a hair, and if my deck was missing rares I'm not sure if I could progress at all.
With just rares, it is possible to build some reasonably good decks. However, the basic decks Hearthstone gives you and the basic card pool in general are simply bad by current standards, and in a game this old, any player will hit a wall just a few games in with those.
Thanks for contributing your thoughts and backing it up with real experiences and stats! This has been consistent with my experiences on Asia server as well in terms of the meta that even lower ranks face. It does not take long before you start facing the tier 1 decks! Based on what you said and also from my own experiences, I'm beginning to think that I was too optimistic about strictly Plebstone decks being able to reach rank 5. I honestly think that a few rares will be necessary to make the deck capable to achieve that. Whether the player is experienced enough to do it is another story.
I think this is the important distinction point that may be getting lost during the discussion about the rank 5 criteria. I want to provide lists that we know are rank 5 capable in the hands of a good player, and ideally these are cheap enough for new players to craft quickly. Individual performance with these decks will vary depending on skill, but mentally there is a huge impact on a new player when they have a limited card collection and they face against fully-loaded tier 1 decks. It is extremely discouraging to feel that you lost because you don't have expensive cards (partly because of how broken the tier 1 decks seem with their legendary/DK interactions). If I went through that experience as a new player I would probably just quit. I'm not interested in P2W games.
However, if I KNOW that actually the budget decks ARE capable given that I play well and develop my skills, I will feel encouraged to improve and not just blame losses on the deck. This is the main point I think people are missing about why that rank 5 criteria is there. People can post budget decks all they like, but until the performance of the deck is demonstrated, there will be no faith for the new player to keep trying with the deck and improve their skills.
I love a good challenge. Let's see how far I get. Will report back when I have something concrete! :)
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Experienced Deckbuilder, Legend Player, Wild Expert, TCG Veteran and Contributing Author toWildHS & Vicious Syndicate. Any and all support is greatly appreciated as it helps me make further quality content. 🐺 ➣Twitter ➣Decks ➣Patreon
Hit rank 5 today with this deck. 56% winrate (102wins and 79 loses) from rank 19-5. Hope to hit legend with it soon! Also proved that is possible to win double keleset rogue on turn 2 =)
Hit rank 5 today with this deck. 56% winrate (102wins and 79 loses) from rank 19-5. Hope to hit legend with it soon! Also proved that is possible to win double keleset rogue on turn 2 =)
Awesome! Congratulations and thanks for sharing your success! If you can import your deck code onto Hearthpwn it will be easier to embed the deck list for people to see and also to import into their account. Cheers! =)
my attempt at making decent decks with only commons and basics. I started at rank 5 with priest, got to rank 3, climbs to rank 2 with zoo, and fell all the way back down by the time I hit shaman and warrior.
Courage is not the absence of fear, Courage is the presence of faith.
My warrior deck was so bad I thought it best to delete it lol.
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/OldGuardian
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Savage roar FTW! Great initiativ :)
Lemme just topdeck that real quick.
Plebstone Challenge Accepted. Going with aggro druid deck!
I love a good challenge. Let's see how far I get. Will report back when I have something concrete! :)
Hit rank 5 today with this deck. 56% winrate (102wins and 79 loses) from rank 19-5. Hope to hit legend with it soon! Also proved that is possible to win double keleset rogue on turn 2 =)
By the way, most of my games you can see on my stream on twich: https://www.twitch.tv/timeslayerhs
Here is the deck:
almost rank 3 now with it =)
hoi
Check out what this little Tinker has to offer for Deathwing.
seems fun
Check out what this little Tinker has to offer for Deathwing.
my attempt at making decent decks with only commons and basics. I started at rank 5 with priest, got to rank 3, climbs to rank 2 with zoo, and fell all the way back down by the time I hit shaman and warrior.
Here's my first idea for a new Witchwood Pleb Zoo deck!
The weak cards I'd consider swapping out for upgrades as you get more dust are:
Fiendish Circle -> Despicable Dreadlord
Voidwalker -> Hooked Reaver
Fallen Sun Cleric & Dire Wolf Alpha -> Sea Giant & Prince Keleseth
Fungalmancer -> Doomguard
I will make it legal.
Here's mine:
Although I would add Frothing Berserker and Grommash Hellscream among lots of other cards