Have you ever noticed that in Hearthstone, 'Control' only seems to exist when you have Ysera and Ragnaros the Firelord, at a minimum (but preferably alongside Cairne Bloodhoof and Alexstrasza) in a deck? Why is that? that seems a bit absurd. Surely it's possible to build a control deck with no legendaries in it and have some success!
So here's my challenge to all you: build a deck for 'casual players' (i.e. 0 Legendaries, 4 or less Epics, 12 or less Rares) that aims to win via board control and some form of inevitability. Do you think Hearthstone even supports this kind of play with its current cardpool?
I looked at this card originally and I thought, you know, it's a card, and you play this card. The card will be that card that you play so you're playing a card. So, it is one thing to play a card. If you're opponent doesn't really have any cards, the card will screw up the card pretty hard, and that means it's a pretty good card.
Handlock /could/ be manageable without Jaraxxus and all the other Legendaries. When I play mine, I don't always use him, plus I don't have Ragnaros or whatever other Legendary is being pushed into handlock. I'm still somewhat of a newbie and get bad pulls from packs.
I'm not sure that the goal of dropping an 8/8 on turn 4 fits into the concept of 'control deck' in my mind, but I'm willing to be sold on the idea if anyone would like to persuade me. :)
Midrange Hunter was my first thought, too. Inevitability coming from the Hero power, along with a deck centered around efficiently taking out enemy creatures with traps, "Shot"s, etc, yeah? I mean, in theory, an enemy deck can't realistically have more than 22 threats in it -- even Zoo runs Mortal Coil, Soulfire, Power Overwhelming, Shadow Bolt and potentially some other non-threat cards. So in theory, at least, if you can take out 22 creatures with less than 22 cards, you have the other cards left over to draw more removal and/or win the game, right? Even most token-spam decks rely on casting spells through Violet Teacher to create tokens.
Clearly, you'll need some healing power from somewhere or you'll get burst down. Hmm...
I looked at this card originally and I thought, you know, it's a card, and you play this card. The card will be that card that you play so you're playing a card. So, it is one thing to play a card. If you're opponent doesn't really have any cards, the card will screw up the card pretty hard, and that means it's a pretty good card.
Oh I understand your thoughts on dropping 8/8s as control. I used to play around with a midrange hunter deck, it's a nice concept, especially with Savannah Highmane ( I pulled countless of these awesome guys), and I personally think that the concept could be played around with better once Naxxramas drops. Unfortunately, I wasn't doing so well with midrange Hunter, I would love for it to work.
I'm not sure that the goal of dropping an 8/8 on turn 4 fits into the concept of 'control deck' in my mind, but I'm willing to be sold on the idea if anyone would like to persuade me. :)
Midrange Hunter was my first thought, too. Inevitability coming from the Hero power, along with a deck centered around efficiently taking out enemy creatures with traps, "Shot"s, etc, yeah? I mean, in theory, an enemy deck can't realistically have more than 22 threats in it -- even Zoo runs Mortal Coil, Soulfire, Power Overwhelming, Shadow Bolt and potentially some other non-threat cards. So in theory, at least, if you can take out 22 creatures with less than 22 cards, you have the other cards left over to draw more removal and/or win the game, right? Even most token-spam decks rely on casting spells through Violet Teacher to create tokens.
Clearly, you'll need some healing power from somewhere or you'll get burst down. Hmm...
Why are you specifically targeting 22 minions? Also most zoo don't run mortal coil which is only good in the mirror and any zoo that runs power overwhelming/shadow bolt just isn't playing the deck right. In zoo you don't need heals literally only because of shieldbearer and how fast u flood the board.
Handlock /could/ be manageable without Jaraxxus and all the other Legendaries. When I play mine, I don't always use him, plus I don't have Ragnaros or whatever other Legendary is being pushed into handlock. I'm still somewhat of a newbie and get bad pulls from packs.
Handlock needs leeroy for leeroy + power overwhelming + faceless combo in this meta imo
For the record, I'm defining Control the way that it's defined on Wikipedia.
Control decks avoid racing and attempt to slow the game down by executing an attrition plan. As the game progresses, control decks are able to take advantage of their slower, more powerful, cards.[12] The primary strength of control decks is their ability to devalue the opponent’s cards.
Zoo doesn't so much slow the game down and use slower, more powerful cards as it speeds the game up by playing more fast, efficient cards than you can in the same timeframe. It might rely on smart trading, but that doesn't make it 'control.'
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I looked at this card originally and I thought, you know, it's a card, and you play this card. The card will be that card that you play so you're playing a card. So, it is one thing to play a card. If you're opponent doesn't really have any cards, the card will screw up the card pretty hard, and that means it's a pretty good card.
For the record, I'm defining Control the way that it's defined on Wikipedia.
Control decks avoid racing and attempt to slow the game down by executing an attrition plan. As the game progresses, control decks are able to take advantage of their slower, more powerful, cards.[12] The primary strength of control decks is their ability to devalue the opponent’s cards.
Zoo doesn't so much slow the game down and use slower, more powerful cards as it speeds the game up by playing more fast, efficient cards than you can in the same timeframe. It might rely on smart trading, but that doesn't make it 'control.'
Well then we are using different definitions. I don't think the standard control definition you'll find in wikipedia applies well to the current meta where most of the time u just get burst down before you know it. The meta is much too fast now. For example shaman almost always relies on either bloodlust or al'akir/doomhammer rockbiter.
Basically what I'm saying is that in hearthstone "control" just means to me clear the board before getting to burst the enemy down. I think the only reason we see control decks is because aggro druid and aggro shaman just don't work and decks like that just need to stall a little before dealing massive damage in 1 turn with a combo that usually isn't planned for super late game.
From my experience, playing pure control just gets wrecked by decks like aggro/miracle rogue/face hunter.
The three deck types I think you would want to consider for this are:
Budget Druid Ramp
Traps Hunter
Mind Control Priest
Though I suppose I see potential routes for just about anything.
The biggest problem unique to budget control decks is dealing with minions that have 8+ health. BGH is Epic, as are just about all the minions with 8 attack (Ironbark being the only exception that comes to mind). Stopping rush is also a problem, but all control decks have to deal with this - so you can raid existing control decks for anti-rush strategies.
I looked at this card originally and I thought, you know, it's a card, and you play this card. The card will be that card that you play so you're playing a card. So, it is one thing to play a card. If you're opponent doesn't really have any cards, the card will screw up the card pretty hard, and that means it's a pretty good card.
Hmm...the Shadow Words make a pretty strong argument for Priest as a budget control deck, but I'm not sure where you'd get the inevitability from...except maybe by including Shadowform, and I'm not sure that you'd want to use your Epic slots on that. Not sure you wouldn't, though...just unsure you would.
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I looked at this card originally and I thought, you know, it's a card, and you play this card. The card will be that card that you play so you're playing a card. So, it is one thing to play a card. If you're opponent doesn't really have any cards, the card will screw up the card pretty hard, and that means it's a pretty good card.
Hmm...the Shadow Words make a pretty strong argument for Priest as a budget control deck, but I'm not sure where you'd get the inevitability from...except maybe by including Shadowform, and I'm not sure that you'd want to use your Epic slots on that. Not sure you wouldn't, though...just unsure you would.
I know it's seen as a bit trite, but I still think that Inner Fire is a great way for a Priest to put their enemy on a clock. Add in a Stormwind Knight and your power card can seem to come out of nowhere.
I looked at this card originally and I thought, you know, it's a card, and you play this card. The card will be that card that you play so you're playing a card. So, it is one thing to play a card. If you're opponent doesn't really have any cards, the card will screw up the card pretty hard, and that means it's a pretty good card.
Hmm...looking at that decklist, I think maybe 12 rares is too many for a 'casual' build. Anyone have any contrary opinions?
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I looked at this card originally and I thought, you know, it's a card, and you play this card. The card will be that card that you play so you're playing a card. So, it is one thing to play a card. If you're opponent doesn't really have any cards, the card will screw up the card pretty hard, and that means it's a pretty good card.
Seems like a good way to start, though I would definitely consider swapping the Priestesses of Elune for Gadgetzan or Azure Drakes (and I do mean consider, without Alex, health is more of a concern).
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Have you ever noticed that in Hearthstone, 'Control' only seems to exist when you have Ysera and Ragnaros the Firelord, at a minimum (but preferably alongside Cairne Bloodhoof and Alexstrasza) in a deck? Why is that? that seems a bit absurd. Surely it's possible to build a control deck with no legendaries in it and have some success!
So here's my challenge to all you: build a deck for 'casual players' (i.e. 0 Legendaries, 4 or less Epics, 12 or less Rares) that aims to win via board control and some form of inevitability. Do you think Hearthstone even supports this kind of play with its current cardpool?
I looked at this card originally and I thought, you know, it's a card, and you play this card. The card will be that card that you play so you're playing a card. So, it is one thing to play a card. If you're opponent doesn't really have any cards, the card will screw up the card pretty hard, and that means it's a pretty good card.
zoolock and midrange hunter
Handlock /could/ be manageable without Jaraxxus and all the other Legendaries. When I play mine, I don't always use him, plus I don't have Ragnaros or whatever other Legendary is being pushed into handlock. I'm still somewhat of a newbie and get bad pulls from packs.
"Thank you for nothing, you useless reptile"
I'm not sure that the goal of dropping an 8/8 on turn 4 fits into the concept of 'control deck' in my mind, but I'm willing to be sold on the idea if anyone would like to persuade me. :)
Midrange Hunter was my first thought, too. Inevitability coming from the Hero power, along with a deck centered around efficiently taking out enemy creatures with traps, "Shot"s, etc, yeah? I mean, in theory, an enemy deck can't realistically have more than 22 threats in it -- even Zoo runs Mortal Coil, Soulfire, Power Overwhelming, Shadow Bolt and potentially some other non-threat cards. So in theory, at least, if you can take out 22 creatures with less than 22 cards, you have the other cards left over to draw more removal and/or win the game, right? Even most token-spam decks rely on casting spells through Violet Teacher to create tokens.
Clearly, you'll need some healing power from somewhere or you'll get burst down. Hmm...
I looked at this card originally and I thought, you know, it's a card, and you play this card. The card will be that card that you play so you're playing a card. So, it is one thing to play a card. If you're opponent doesn't really have any cards, the card will screw up the card pretty hard, and that means it's a pretty good card.
Oh I understand your thoughts on dropping 8/8s as control. I used to play around with a midrange hunter deck, it's a nice concept, especially with Savannah Highmane ( I pulled countless of these awesome guys), and I personally think that the concept could be played around with better once Naxxramas drops. Unfortunately, I wasn't doing so well with midrange Hunter, I would love for it to work.
"Thank you for nothing, you useless reptile"
Play Zoo it is a control deck
Why are you specifically targeting 22 minions? Also most zoo don't run mortal coil which is only good in the mirror and any zoo that runs power overwhelming/shadow bolt just isn't playing the deck right. In zoo you don't need heals literally only because of shieldbearer and how fast u flood the board.
Handlock needs leeroy for leeroy + power overwhelming + faceless combo in this meta imo
For the record, I'm defining Control the way that it's defined on Wikipedia.
Zoo doesn't so much slow the game down and use slower, more powerful cards as it speeds the game up by playing more fast, efficient cards than you can in the same timeframe. It might rely on smart trading, but that doesn't make it 'control.'
I looked at this card originally and I thought, you know, it's a card, and you play this card. The card will be that card that you play so you're playing a card. So, it is one thing to play a card. If you're opponent doesn't really have any cards, the card will screw up the card pretty hard, and that means it's a pretty good card.
Well then we are using different definitions. I don't think the standard control definition you'll find in wikipedia applies well to the current meta where most of the time u just get burst down before you know it. The meta is much too fast now. For example shaman almost always relies on either bloodlust or al'akir/doomhammer rockbiter.
Basically what I'm saying is that in hearthstone "control" just means to me clear the board before getting to burst the enemy down. I think the only reason we see control decks is because aggro druid and aggro shaman just don't work and decks like that just need to stall a little before dealing massive damage in 1 turn with a combo that usually isn't planned for super late game.
From my experience, playing pure control just gets wrecked by decks like aggro/miracle rogue/face hunter.
My ''Unusual Tempo Rogue'' deck does fairly well against most decks, I would definitely recommend it to any casual players, give it a try!
The three deck types I think you would want to consider for this are:
Though I suppose I see potential routes for just about anything.
The biggest problem unique to budget control decks is dealing with minions that have 8+ health. BGH is Epic, as are just about all the minions with 8 attack (Ironbark being the only exception that comes to mind). Stopping rush is also a problem, but all control decks have to deal with this - so you can raid existing control decks for anti-rush strategies.
Yeah, clearly budget control is going to need hard removal.
Assassinate Polymorph Hex Deadly Shot Emperor Cobra Naturalize Execute Hunter's Mark Equality Mind Control Siphon Soul Doomsayer. Did I miss any? Seems to me like once again, Hunter is the obvious choice, with two hard removal cards 'built in' and synergy with Emperor Cobra besides.
I looked at this card originally and I thought, you know, it's a card, and you play this card. The card will be that card that you play so you're playing a card. So, it is one thing to play a card. If you're opponent doesn't really have any cards, the card will screw up the card pretty hard, and that means it's a pretty good card.
Shadow Word: Death Shadow Word: Pain
(There's also Brawl and Twisting Nether, but those are both Epics - and there are generally better Epics to get first)
This is a decent budget deck that I used for ranks 19 - 8 (Could go higher, haven't tried)
I really don't like emperor cobra because most of the time it just either acts as a mediocre turn 3 drop or gets removed by spells/weapons.
Think that about sums it up...well, unless you count Big Game Hunter.
Hmm...the Shadow Words make a pretty strong argument for Priest as a budget control deck, but I'm not sure where you'd get the inevitability from...except maybe by including Shadowform, and I'm not sure that you'd want to use your Epic slots on that. Not sure you wouldn't, though...just unsure you would.
I looked at this card originally and I thought, you know, it's a card, and you play this card. The card will be that card that you play so you're playing a card. So, it is one thing to play a card. If you're opponent doesn't really have any cards, the card will screw up the card pretty hard, and that means it's a pretty good card.
I know it's seen as a bit trite, but I still think that Inner Fire is a great way for a Priest to put their enemy on a clock. Add in a Stormwind Knight and your power card can seem to come out of nowhere.
(And Stampeding Kodo, thanks TheWanderer!)
I looked at this card originally and I thought, you know, it's a card, and you play this card. The card will be that card that you play so you're playing a card. So, it is one thing to play a card. If you're opponent doesn't really have any cards, the card will screw up the card pretty hard, and that means it's a pretty good card.
Hmm...looking at that decklist, I think maybe 12 rares is too many for a 'casual' build. Anyone have any contrary opinions?
I looked at this card originally and I thought, you know, it's a card, and you play this card. The card will be that card that you play so you're playing a card. So, it is one thing to play a card. If you're opponent doesn't really have any cards, the card will screw up the card pretty hard, and that means it's a pretty good card.
Seems like a good way to start, though I would definitely consider swapping the Priestesses of Elune for Gadgetzan or Azure Drakes (and I do mean consider, without Alex, health is more of a concern).