For the millionth time, they actually have win stats on this and going first still has a slight advantage. You gain mana first so, aside from when the coin is used, you're ahead on mana, and you draw first so you end up equal in cards on your turn.
I think the statistics from blizzard support the player going first, generally has a better advantage, regardless of the coin. As for being able to mulligan the fourth card or not, Im not sure how this would influence the game, I think it would only give the first player a wider advantage from the get go. And if you prefer to go second, why would you want the ability to mulligan the fourth card gone? Isnt that counterproductive to your opening hand?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Or of course, because you are 'a strong, independent deck builder, who needs no blizzard to tell them what to include', you make your deck deliberately weaker." - Skaduush1
For the millionth time, they actually have win stats on this and going first still has a slight advantage. You gain mana first so, aside from when the coin is used, you're ahead on mana, and you draw first so you end up equal in cards on your turn.
thanks for posting the links to your wealth of information?
You can definitely make a deck that has a curve that's better for one or other side of the coin, but you're probably going to hurt yourself more in half your games then the advantage you'd gain. The game's not symmetrical but as the stats show, it's a remarkably elegant solution. Also note the huge step up in minion quality at 4 mana and 6 mana - there's a subtlety there that helps prevent the first player gaining too much of an advantage.
If I remember correctly, blizzard said that the advantage of going first is less accentuated at higher ranks. I wish they would reveal legend rank statistics, you see a lot of pro players valuing the coin highly.
Obviously, most of the time it's completely match-up dependant, but general statistics would be nice.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm so glad there is prejudice against playing hunter/zoo/[insert FotM deck here]. People like that make the life so much easier for those of us who play to win.
If you were able to choose if you wanted to go first or second nothing would change except in corner cases or if the other player made a bad choice (chose to go second). It would be just like Magic, where you roll for "choice," but in reality 99.99% of the time the winner of the roll chooses to go first.
Depending on the type of deck I'm playing, having The Coin can be a great advantage when you have cards like Mana Wyrm, Questing Adventurer, Archmage Antonidas, or any of the Rogue combo cards when you're able to generate a positive effect for zero cost.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
If they would balance the coin itself as a card, I wont have any more issues with it. It offers too much for some decks (Mage Wyrm, Rogue combo+spell for Aucioneer and so on). So if the coin get the unique atribute of not being a card, but more a switch for a single turn (kinda akin to Hero Power) I would feel it would overall be better for the game.
Also, being able to choose 1st/2nd by winning the flip would also be nice. I like that idea :-)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Still trying to get legendary, after a years hovering in ranks 5-1. Ranking of classes based on power and enjoyment playing it:
1. Mage - Tempo/Mech/Freeze 2. Druid - Standard Midrange Ramp 3. Hunter - Midrange/Face 4. Paladin - Midrange/Control 5. Warrior - Standard Control 6. Rogue - Sprint Oil 7. Priest - Control 8. Warlock - Handlock/Zoo 9. Shaman - Mech/Midrange
it's wayyyy too big of an advantage going second if you ask me. im not even sure you should get an extra card at all if you get the coin.
i will go second every single time if i have the choice.
For the millionth time, they actually have win stats on this and going first still has a slight advantage. You gain mana first so, aside from when the coin is used, you're ahead on mana, and you draw first so you end up equal in cards on your turn.
I think the statistics from blizzard support the player going first, generally has a better advantage, regardless of the coin. As for being able to mulligan the fourth card or not, Im not sure how this would influence the game, I think it would only give the first player a wider advantage from the get go. And if you prefer to go second, why would you want the ability to mulligan the fourth card gone? Isnt that counterproductive to your opening hand?
"Or of course, because you are 'a strong, independent deck builder, who needs no blizzard to tell them what to include', you make your deck deliberately weaker." - Skaduush1
thanks for posting the links to your wealth of information?
There's your link:
http://hearthstone.blizzpro.com/2013/09/12/ben-brode-talks-the-coin/
You can definitely make a deck that has a curve that's better for one or other side of the coin, but you're probably going to hurt yourself more in half your games then the advantage you'd gain. The game's not symmetrical but as the stats show, it's a remarkably elegant solution. Also note the huge step up in minion quality at 4 mana and 6 mana - there's a subtlety there that helps prevent the first player gaining too much of an advantage.
I always want to go first - coin is overrated imo
If I remember correctly, blizzard said that the advantage of going first is less accentuated at higher ranks. I wish they would reveal legend rank statistics, you see a lot of pro players valuing the coin highly.
Obviously, most of the time it's completely match-up dependant, but general statistics would be nice.
I'm so glad there is prejudice against playing hunter/zoo/[insert FotM deck here]. People like that make the life so much easier for those of us who play to win.
If you were able to choose if you wanted to go first or second nothing would change except in corner cases or if the other player made a bad choice (chose to go second). It would be just like Magic, where you roll for "choice," but in reality 99.99% of the time the winner of the roll chooses to go first.
Depending on the type of deck I'm playing, having The Coin can be a great advantage when you have cards like Mana Wyrm, Questing Adventurer, Archmage Antonidas, or any of the Rogue combo cards when you're able to generate a positive effect for zero cost.
"To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack
If they would balance the coin itself as a card, I wont have any more issues with it. It offers too much for some decks (Mage Wyrm, Rogue combo+spell for Aucioneer and so on). So if the coin get the unique atribute of not being a card, but more a switch for a single turn (kinda akin to Hero Power) I would feel it would overall be better for the game.
Also, being able to choose 1st/2nd by winning the flip would also be nice. I like that idea :-)
Still trying to get legendary, after a years hovering in ranks 5-1.
Ranking of classes based on power and enjoyment playing it:
1. Mage - Tempo/Mech/Freeze
2. Druid - Standard Midrange Ramp
3. Hunter - Midrange/Face
4. Paladin - Midrange/Control
5. Warrior - Standard Control
6. Rogue - Sprint Oil
7. Priest - Control
8. Warlock - Handlock/Zoo
9. Shaman - Mech/Midrange
i think its ok for the coin to be a card (questing adventurer) but i dont think it should be a spell (wyrm, auctioneer, antonidas, etc)
If it is set kinda like hero powers, it can also potentially be set with 2+ charges for balance purposes (max 1 per turn, as HP).
Still trying to get legendary, after a years hovering in ranks 5-1.
Ranking of classes based on power and enjoyment playing it:
1. Mage - Tempo/Mech/Freeze
2. Druid - Standard Midrange Ramp
3. Hunter - Midrange/Face
4. Paladin - Midrange/Control
5. Warrior - Standard Control
6. Rogue - Sprint Oil
7. Priest - Control
8. Warlock - Handlock/Zoo
9. Shaman - Mech/Midrange