I used to love to play miracle rogue decks because they were so thoughtful and fun. Now everyone is playing them since the nerf on hunter and I just don't want to play it anymore.. not only that but I am wondering what decks are you guys making to counter this over popularized deck?
From my pointof view, there are obvious balancig issues just because it becomes famous again. Those cards and this Archetype exists since the CB (also with some Nerfs)...
Miracle is not broken at all. Yeah you win if Auctioneer sits on the table for a couple turns, that happens. Solution, kill it, save your AOE for it, watch for missplayes or force them to make decisions. I am playing MalyGod currently, and play to my endgame situations and some times i get there, some times I do not. The times I do not is when my opponents force for me to waste damage on creatures or play very aggressive and put me on a short clock. You have to realize what they are doing and then play to the weak points. You know they are combo, you go as hard as you can at them and put them on the back foot, dont let them mess around and build on each turn because you are afraid something might happen. Some times we do "miracle" out and draw a card to win the game, other times we draw dead. It happens, just play to win the game, do not play to not lose. They are different ideologies.
There are a ton of things that stop rouge, mostly good play and not making big mistakes. I have had so many spots where I could see lethal for my opponent or they could keep my from winning and they do something ass backwards and I win the next turn. Mistakes are the biggest thing Miracle takes advantage of. We are usually ahead on cards and constantly working towards our end game that little mistakes on your end win us the game. If you anticipate when they will do something you can really slow a rouge down to a crawl. Hell put the deck together and play it, in turn you will be better against it. I love playing the mirror because most people suck at Miracle and are easy wins probably 70% of the time.
Wouldn't a lot of miracle mean it would be good to run 2 oozes at the very least? But don't kill the weapon till they poison it. Typically if you see them weapon up and not attack with it they are about to poison it next turn. Killing the Auctioneer is of course necessary but not always possible. When Possible I like to have 2 oozes and 2 farseers in my deck. 1 to kill poisoned weapons and the other to keep myself out of combo range.
Oozing is a small setback at best against Miracle. If we dagger and pass, it might mean we have poison. If we do we are waiting to see a creature dropped, poison then kill the creature, already getting value out of the card, a 1 mana kill is pretty powerful. If it is late enough in the game we will poison, 3 to the face bladefury. making you next turn ooze pointless. Ooze is only good against MalyGod, which I am playing but rarely see the ooze, and like I said, its a minor setback from a card we already more than likely got value out of. Zoo is a toss up, we get bladefury, we win, we dont, its a grind and highly favored towards Zoo mostly because of the 1 for 1 it causes.
Miracle is not broken at all. Yeah you win if Auctioneer sits on the table for a couple turns, that happens. Solution, kill it, save your AOE for it, watch for missplayes or force them to make decisions. I am playing MalyGod currently, and play to my endgame situations and some times i get there, some times I do not. The times I do not is when my opponents force for me to waste damage on creatures or play very aggressive and put me on a short clock. You have to realize what they are doing and then play to the weak points. You know they are combo, you go as hard as you can at them and put them on the back foot, dont let them mess around and build on each turn because you are afraid something might happen. Some times we do "miracle" out and draw a card to win the game, other times we draw dead. It happens, just play to win the game, do not play to not lose. They are different ideologies.
Very few classes have the ability to AOE gad at turn 5 (warrior - brawl (not 100%), warlock but need a 4 attack minion, shaman but need +2 spell power, turn 6 most can do it but it requires 2 or three cards to pull it off and thats for one gad, drop another gad and your out of luck). I dont play it but I think miracle rogue is pretty interesting. It does stink that rogue really is close to the only class to be able to use Gad immediately.
I love that a deck that's been around since the closed beta with no buffs/nerfs is being considered OP now. Drawing your entire deck in one turn is the only way miracle rogue has a chance and it's not something you are guaranteed to do every game.
I also kind wonder if that secret that makes you invulnerable for the rest of the turn would be any good against miracle since they usually burst you down.
@meadzilla, I guess I should say ooze is more valuable in if you are trying to race the rogue down because those small setbacks that keep up pressure can cause sub-optimal play. But it is very uncommon for people to run. Limiting early value is necessary.
I believe its actually balanced since the good MU against miracle are cheaper compared to the control warrior counter against hunters in the previous meta.
Miracle is not broken at all. Yeah you win if Auctioneer sits on the table for a couple turns, that happens. Solution, kill it, save your AOE for it, watch for missplayes or force them to make decisions. I am playing MalyGod currently, and play to my endgame situations and some times i get there, some times I do not. The times I do not is when my opponents force for me to waste damage on creatures or play very aggressive and put me on a short clock. You have to realize what they are doing and then play to the weak points. You know they are combo, you go as hard as you can at them and put them on the back foot, dont let them mess around and build on each turn because you are afraid something might happen. Some times we do "miracle" out and draw a card to win the game, other times we draw dead. It happens, just play to win the game, do not play to not lose. They are different ideologies.
Very few classes have the ability to AOE gad at turn 5 (warrior - brawl (not 100%), warlock but need a 4 attack minion, shaman but need +2 spell power, turn 6 most can do it but it requires 2 or three cards to pull it off and thats for one gad, drop another gad and your out of luck). I dont play it but I think miracle rogue is pretty interesting. It does stink that rogue really is close to the only class to be able to use Gad immediately.
A T5 Gadgetzan isn't usually going to have Stealth (unless you've applied so little pressure against the rogue that they still have the coin).
Most classes have a way to do 4-damage to a revealed 4/4 minion (and if Miracle Rogue is really giving you problems, you can always consider adding one of the 4/2 charge minions to your deck). Paladin, Mage, and Warlock all have cards that can easily take out a 4-health minion with stealth. Hunter can Flare the stealth away and/or use a Deadly Shot. Warrior and Shaman need a bit more luck, but are also in a position to kill a 4/4 with stealth.
The classes that are in the worst shape vs. a stealthed Gadgetzan are Priest, Rogue, and Druid. However, once Nax comes out, the Druid will have a counter - and a Priest always has the option to run Mass Dispel. Heck, the latter might even be a good card after all the Naxxramas additions enter play.
Finally, you could always run Tink. Now that he targets a "random" minion - creatures with Stealth are fair game.
I think the OP was questioning whether there should be a way for a class (rogue in this example) to draw half of their deck if the stars align. As a lot of people mentioned, there are definitely things you can do to minimize the risk of this happening against you, but in reality I again think the OP is questioning the mechanic. As he/she mentioned, just because there are a couple things that you can to help against the card draw, that does not necessarily mean that the mechanic itself is not broken.
I personally like the concept of a miracle rogue, but to me I don't necessarily like what is required to beat it. Your mulligan combined with your card draw for the first few turns really can determine the outcome if you do not get some sort of removal for the auctioneer. I may need to try some other decks though. I currently run control shaman, ramp druid, and amaz's priest and all 3 seem to be fairly weak against miracle rogue.
A T5 Gadgetzan isn't usually going to have Stealth (unless you've applied so little pressure against the rogue that they still have the coin).
That is true, but Ive have run into multiple occasions where they prep and stealth on t5.
That's a huge waste though, unless they don't have coin. Generally, you'll prep T5 if you don't have conceal or coin, hoping for conceal or another card to keep cycling.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I used to love to play miracle rogue decks because they were so thoughtful and fun. Now everyone is playing them since the nerf on hunter and I just don't want to play it anymore.. not only that but I am wondering what decks are you guys making to counter this over popularized deck?
Stop saying that EVERY deck that becomes Legend is broken at least...
By the way, Aggro Mage can outpace Rogues, for example...
...Too young to die, too drunk to live...
From my point of view, there are obvious balancig issues just because it becomes famous again. Those cards and this Archetype exists since the CB (also with some Nerfs)...
But I don't want to go OT...so, forget it.
...Too young to die, too drunk to live...
Miracle is not broken at all. Yeah you win if Auctioneer sits on the table for a couple turns, that happens. Solution, kill it, save your AOE for it, watch for missplayes or force them to make decisions. I am playing MalyGod currently, and play to my endgame situations and some times i get there, some times I do not. The times I do not is when my opponents force for me to waste damage on creatures or play very aggressive and put me on a short clock. You have to realize what they are doing and then play to the weak points. You know they are combo, you go as hard as you can at them and put them on the back foot, dont let them mess around and build on each turn because you are afraid something might happen. Some times we do "miracle" out and draw a card to win the game, other times we draw dead. It happens, just play to win the game, do not play to not lose. They are different ideologies.
There are a ton of things that stop rouge, mostly good play and not making big mistakes. I have had so many spots where I could see lethal for my opponent or they could keep my from winning and they do something ass backwards and I win the next turn. Mistakes are the biggest thing Miracle takes advantage of. We are usually ahead on cards and constantly working towards our end game that little mistakes on your end win us the game. If you anticipate when they will do something you can really slow a rouge down to a crawl. Hell put the deck together and play it, in turn you will be better against it. I love playing the mirror because most people suck at Miracle and are easy wins probably 70% of the time.
Wouldn't a lot of miracle mean it would be good to run 2 oozes at the very least? But don't kill the weapon till they poison it. Typically if you see them weapon up and not attack with it they are about to poison it next turn. Killing the Auctioneer is of course necessary but not always possible. When Possible I like to have 2 oozes and 2 farseers in my deck. 1 to kill poisoned weapons and the other to keep myself out of combo range.
well, for me, id still go for a reynard zoo! its pretty fast and simple. saving that soulfire for a 4 below lifed hero or an auctioneer. lol
Oozing is a small setback at best against Miracle. If we dagger and pass, it might mean we have poison. If we do we are waiting to see a creature dropped, poison then kill the creature, already getting value out of the card, a 1 mana kill is pretty powerful. If it is late enough in the game we will poison, 3 to the face bladefury. making you next turn ooze pointless. Ooze is only good against MalyGod, which I am playing but rarely see the ooze, and like I said, its a minor setback from a card we already more than likely got value out of.
Zoo is a toss up, we get bladefury, we win, we dont, its a grind and highly favored towards Zoo mostly because of the 1 for 1 it causes.
Very few classes have the ability to AOE gad at turn 5 (warrior - brawl (not 100%), warlock but need a 4 attack minion, shaman but need +2 spell power, turn 6 most can do it but it requires 2 or three cards to pull it off and thats for one gad, drop another gad and your out of luck). I dont play it but I think miracle rogue is pretty interesting. It does stink that rogue really is close to the only class to be able to use Gad immediately.
I wanted the achievement so I have a signature!
I love that a deck that's been around since the closed beta with no buffs/nerfs is being considered OP now. Drawing your entire deck in one turn is the only way miracle rogue has a chance and it's not something you are guaranteed to do every game.
I also kind wonder if that secret that makes you invulnerable for the rest of the turn would be any good against miracle since they usually burst you down.
@meadzilla, I guess I should say ooze is more valuable in if you are trying to race the rogue down because those small setbacks that keep up pressure can cause sub-optimal play. But it is very uncommon for people to run. Limiting early value is necessary.
I believe its actually balanced since the good MU against miracle are cheaper compared to the control warrior counter against hunters in the previous meta.
I love scrubs
A T5 Gadgetzan isn't usually going to have Stealth (unless you've applied so little pressure against the rogue that they still have the coin).
Most classes have a way to do 4-damage to a revealed 4/4 minion (and if Miracle Rogue is really giving you problems, you can always consider adding one of the 4/2 charge minions to your deck). Paladin, Mage, and Warlock all have cards that can easily take out a 4-health minion with stealth. Hunter can Flare the stealth away and/or use a Deadly Shot. Warrior and Shaman need a bit more luck, but are also in a position to kill a 4/4 with stealth.
The classes that are in the worst shape vs. a stealthed Gadgetzan are Priest, Rogue, and Druid. However, once Nax comes out, the Druid will have a counter - and a Priest always has the option to run Mass Dispel. Heck, the latter might even be a good card after all the Naxxramas additions enter play.
Finally, you could always run Tink. Now that he targets a "random" minion - creatures with Stealth are fair game.
I think the OP was questioning whether there should be a way for a class (rogue in this example) to draw half of their deck if the stars align. As a lot of people mentioned, there are definitely things you can do to minimize the risk of this happening against you, but in reality I again think the OP is questioning the mechanic. As he/she mentioned, just because there are a couple things that you can to help against the card draw, that does not necessarily mean that the mechanic itself is not broken.
I personally like the concept of a miracle rogue, but to me I don't necessarily like what is required to beat it. Your mulligan combined with your card draw for the first few turns really can determine the outcome if you do not get some sort of removal for the auctioneer. I may need to try some other decks though. I currently run control shaman, ramp druid, and amaz's priest and all 3 seem to be fairly weak against miracle rogue.
That is true, but Ive have run into multiple occasions where they prep and stealth on t5.
I wanted the achievement so I have a signature!
That's a huge waste though, unless they don't have coin. Generally, you'll prep T5 if you don't have conceal or coin, hoping for conceal or another card to keep cycling.