Erm... you can't use Stealth in the card text of basic cards. So i suppose with that in mind, there's not much of a choice to be made :)
...wow. You'd think I would've caught something like that XD I suppose that does make my submission a lot easier.
In regards to including a weapon, I'd love to, but I'd need to figure out a way of including one that didn't have the Spellwear keyword, and I think that something like that may end up being too overpowered or too different from the rest of the class. _______________________
In regards to your submission: I'm torn, but overall I really like what you've done with it. I think that Further Research is one of the most interesting yet simple cards I've seen in a long time, so props to you for finding a way to include lategame draw into your class.
I also really like that you managed to include some 'boring' cards that don't feel forced or unneeded - you have them because you kind of need basic, small spells for a class, and that's great.
I still dislike Undercity Abomination, I think it seems very powerful, especially when combined with Enflesh. I can understand a want for a powerful Basic card, but it just seems too good. I think I'd have preferred to see it as a Rare or Epic 5/8 with Infected. That way if it killed a minion it counters it's own Infection health loss, and at the same time it can spread Infection. I'd even say you could buff that to a 6/8.
Oh that's right... i forgot about the Spellwear keyword you got going on. Well... maybe you can design something along the lines of Sword of Justice? Maybe a weapon that gives every minion summoned +1 Spellpower and looses 1 durability and the weapon itself has Spellpower? Just throwing ideas.
Well... if the mods allow us to drastically change cards in this phase, i might consider swapping out the Undercity Abomination with something else. It kind of looks bad right below @Zukuu's Flesh Abomination anyways... But i'll have to think on what card to replace it with. We shell see!
It's a FRESH Abomination. :p I mean, look at that smug Prince of Bel Air grin.
@ShadowsOfSense Just thematically, I like to see the 1 drop being a basic minion, so I would go with Scroll Keeper. As for Scroll Keeper itself, it's a very ambivalent card. If you go first, it's straight up OP (in particular combined with the 0 mana spell). If you go second, he could be very weak. I guess that makes him balanced tho.
@DonnieMcKarlo I still think the hero power is worded weirdly. Just "sounds" wrong and is a bit unclear imo.
You also cannot use Silence so Tranquility is also uneligible.
Well damn, I'm just on a roll today aren't I? Welp, that'll have to be bumped up to a Common then, and I'll see if I have anything I can move down. Or maybe I'll just have to create a new card >.<
Hey guys!, Thanks to everyone who upvoted the Twilight's Hammer in Phase 1, and GL to everyone else in phase 2.
I've got a few concepts roughly worked out for my basic set and would love some feedback on them before i finalise them.
Saronite Vapours - I Think spell cost (3) more is a good spot for this card due to its 1 mana cost making it very easy to fit into other turns. The loatheb precedent (spell cost (5) more for ~0-0.5 mana) is a bit skewing for this kind of effect i feel.
Worldbreaker Shaman - I'm worried this might be too strong at 2 health and slightly too weak at 1 health. Currently i have it at 2 since all classes (i think) have a way of dealing 2 damage with spells/hero powers by turn 2.
Faceless Corruptor - Some Hero power synergy, 2/5 makes it a stick to board a bit and punishes expensive plays.
Saronite Animus - The "fire elemental" of the set, its a big threat around turn 6 that cant be dealt with using spells, rewards you for having maintained board control or forces the opponent to trade minions to conserve their health.
Yeah, I haven't moved on to phase 2, but here's what I was working on with for my phase 2 submission, as I didn't know the full format. I'll hide the entire post in a Spoiler, but if you're interested have a look and take what you want from the idea.
First off I'm going to give a decklist for the 20 Basic Neutral minions that much up the rest of your Basic deck.
These are the 5 class cards that you start the game with as a new player. This means your Basic deck is the cards in the above list but 2 copies of each of these. This will be the most basic experience a player would have with the class and will hopefully allow the to see the positive and negative elements of the class and either get them interested or turn them toward something they enjoy more. I'll do a bit of explanation on each of the class cards below.
1.) Burning Grasp - This is your basic cheap removal spell. Its one of the most direct copies of another classes card, which I know Blizzard did a lot of work to avoid but I felt like this card was pretty necessary. It obviously interacts well with your hero power but the more you buff it the less efficient it becomes. I felt this cost and damage point worked the better than the 2 mana 3 damage range.
2.) Pulsing Flames - This is your basic AoE. It costs 1 more than Arcane Explosion base, but obviously the hero power interaction is pretty decent. Its a 4 mana Consecrate that only hits minions, and it can be stronger than that but obviously that's a multiple turn investment to achieve that. This is of the the cards that was made only slightly less efficient for balance reasons, but on the whole even wanting to cast this as just the simple 1 damage version shouldn't feel bad when its what you want.
3.) Sin'dorei Historian - This is the card draw spell your class starts with. Its also your only starting class minion so that even the Basic deck hopefully has enough interactions that people won't wonder why your hero power does nothing without a spell. Its a fairly basic card, and being a class card I decided 2/3 was fine, but I could easily see it being a 2/2 if pressed.
4.) Gravity Lapse - This is probably the most confusing of the cards, but its a double dipping interactions that doesn't deal damage, to help clarify that the hero power isn't and shouldn't just be a Spell Damage buff. This is obviously a tempo card, and I think its cool and fun. I've noted on other peoples cards that cost increases don't appear in the Base Set but this is a flavor choice, and I hope people don't consider it too complex for base set, though it may be. I'm not sure what cards I'd change out but there are some options in the classic cards.
5.) Arcane Eruption - This is also one of our cards that double dips on the number increase, effectively gaining 2 damage per Hero Power. I like the basic design/idea of this card because of the hero power interaction, but I don't think it needs to be targeted to be a playable card, unlike Cobra Shot, probably one of the closest comparisons. Against a single large minion or on an empty board this can deal much more direct damage, and against a rush type deck you could still easily kill 2-3 minions if you got lucky. There is a very very minor consideration to put this down to 4 mana, but I believe 5 is correct. This was one of my original example cards.
1.) Craven Blood Magus - This is our first and only Base Set card that shows any kind of mana interaction between you and your opponent, but that will be developed more with the Classic cards. This card can be a pretty huge attack minions for 1 mana, but there are only 2 major situations where that happens. Your opponent has a terrible curve or you are giving up the majority of your turn, and since this doesn't gain health thought that was fine. I thought about making this a 1/3 but that makes it way too efficient when played up to turn 4 as a 4 drop, and that is way too good for a 1 drop. This card is unlocked at level 2
2.) Mental Elasticity - This is our basic card draw spell. Its a simple 1 mana cycle, however if you spend the time to target this with the hero power once you get 2 cards for effectively 2 mana. You can continue to target this with your hero power increasing the cost per card by 2. This will lead to one of the most efficient card draw spells but you have to consider your hero power doesn't directly affect the board, and since you aren't modifying a potential damage spell you are only allowing yourself card advantage at a later time. This is one of my original example cards, during the Submission round. This is the card unlocked at level 4.
3.) Power Conduit - This is our buff card. Most classes have some form of buff and this was the one I determined to fit Blood Mage. Its been readjusted for a touch more balance around the hero power. There was a interesting bit of development with this card. I'm sure while this card appears to be rather similar to Mark of the Wild, but the Tauntgiven by this card actually isn't generally meant to be a positive effect. You aren't buffing your minions health up by a great deal, but as almost anyone knows, protecting Spell Damage minions can lead to a very big swing in your favor, therefore I decided that the Taunt would actually help keep this card fair. I also think its important to design cards that could be playable in certain situations but are only played in fringe situations if at all, and lets be honest, buff aren't particularly popular in many class so if its slightly under powered its probably fine. Better than making it imbalanced just to make it playable. No class has 10 amazing basic cards, an no one deck is or was made up of any classes 10 basic cards plus 10 neutrals. This card is unlocked at level 6.
4.) Arcane Annihilator - This is our big minion, and its also the first ever Spell Damage +2 cards. I think that Spell Damage should be more prominent in Mage classes, and so I thought it would be fun to make a really big minion, and obviously Blood Elves love there Arcane Golems. This was one of my first ideas for the class minions and while at one point I shared a very different version of a card with this name I believe this one is the best card I could have designed for what I wanted to show in the class. This is unlocked at level 8.
5.) Wave of Flame - This is our big AoE. Not every class has one of these but this class does. This was actually one of the original cards, but I had it placed at Rare, after examining a number of classes basic cards I decided this was probably fine. I even reduced the cost from the original. There is a bit of redundancy in most classes, and I think this is a perfectly suitable card for its cost. This is effectively a 1 sided Hellfire, with the potential to be much sweeter if you find the time to invest into it. This is the card unlocked at level 10.
So there you have it, the 10 Basic Blood Mage cards. If you're inspired by this class or curious about my design process feel free to let me know. If you think I'm an idiot who missed the mark and designed something poorly or over powered you can let me know about that also.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
Class design is much deeper than just making 3, 10, 24, or even all 35 cards for a class. Its about making something that appears cohesive and multifaceted. No class in the game has every card designed to fit 1 play style, they often have many different cards with different ideas and approaches, even if one things becomes the dominant one. Its actually a lot harder to design cards that are fringe playable or even just not good enough. I think many people that go to the end of this will end up making classes with too many good focused cards and not enough filler. That seems to be what people want though, even with the Weekly Card Design contest people tend to favor cards that would be imbalanced than good but balanced.
We are designing classes but with the ideas and knowledge of a game that has been out for 18 months and already has 3 different card releases. Properly approaching a class to make the Base Set, Classic Cards and 3 different expansion cards all fit not only the class but also the Set they are considered to be from is very strange. Also, blizzard has months to test Base Set and Classic before the game was released, not to mention Naxx, GvG and BRM, and even they have had to change, nerf and even very rarely buff/tweak cards to get the game to the state its in now.
I commend anyone that makes a class concept good or bad, and I support anyone that moved on to the this round in the contest. I know my own submission, after review, didn't hit the notes I wanted and so I overhauled my preview cards. I know some of you have no reason to deeply examine your posts, you already moved on and I didn't, but if I have some advice that might help moving forward. Look at each of the 3 larger set releases individually in order of release for each class, and consider how they interacted with the Base Set deck you got while originally leveling/playing the class. Think about actually building that 30 card deck with nothing but the 10 base set cards you designed for your class and the base set minions everyone has at the start, then think about what you would have wanted to be in your classic set, how that would really bring out the keywords and enhance the flavor without negating your base set cards. Then you can look at GvG, which has a few expansion themed cards (Mech, random effect cards), and then has some cards that also filled in a few of the weaknesses or enhanced existing ideas within the class. Obviously Naxx and BRM didn't do a lot to enhance most classes, but it brings out very specific themes inspired by the raid, so those cards should be easy to design as interesting stand alone ideas.
Anyway, I'll shut up and start giving more specific feedback now.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
Worldbreaker Shaman seems a bit over the top. If i understand this correctly, even when you use it to attack into a minion it still won't take damage? This kind of forces a spell on it, because it is a 2 drop with 2 attack so it can do things. I think making it simply "Cannot take damage from minions" is good enough. That way it can still die to weapons and minion effects, its balanced and flavorful.
Ah thanks, that is a better way of wording it for balance, I'll definitely go ahead with that cahnge.
Faceless Corruptor is IMO FAR too strong! A 3 mana 2/5 is very difficult to kill by a single minion and it can trade for possibly 2 minions at that stage of the game. But that effect as well... I think this should be a 4 drop and it will still possibly be quite strong.
Even with the effect being symmetrical? It hits yourself as well so you still have to be careful with what you're playing. But yes, i realise its health may be a little on the heavy side for 3 mana., might make it a 4 mana 2/4, then yes?
As many people already mentioned you did use Silence, which isn't allowed in Base set, but I think you have more to focus on than just that. Your basic set is very very focused, many of the cards use the exact same mechanics and almost all of them have direct synergies. This is probably a bit too focused for Base Set. Warded Pages must have an intended interaction with Blazefire Book, but I could be wrong if so feel free to correct me. If you do intend this to work Blazefire Book can't say destroy. Also I think Warded Pages could cost 1 either way. Unless you have some other very interesting cards in mind this isn't likely to net you more than 1 durability most of the time, and Upgrade gives you 1 durability and 1 attack for just 1 mana.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
Class design is much deeper than just making 3, 10, 24, or even all 35 cards for a class. Its about making something that appears cohesive and multifaceted. No class in the game has every card designed to fit 1 play style, they often have many different cards with different ideas and approaches, even if one things becomes the dominant one. Its actually a lot harder to design cards that are fringe playable or even just not good enough. I think many people that go to the end of this will end up making classes with too many good focused cards and not enough filler.
Look at each of the 3 larger set releases individually in order of release for each class, and consider how they interacted with the Base Set deck you got while originally leveling/playing the class. Think about actually building that 30 card deck with nothing but the 10 base set cards you designed for your class and the base set minions everyone has at the start, then think about what you would have wanted to be in your classic set, how that would really bring out the keywords and enhance the flavor without negating your base set cards. Then you can look at GvG, which has a few expansion themed cards (Mech, random effect cards), and then has some cards that also filled in a few of the weaknesses or enhanced existing ideas within the class. Obviously Naxx and BRM didn't do a lot to enhance most classes, but it brings out very specific themes inspired by the raid, so those cards should be easy to design as interesting stand alone ideas.
Your class seems very very focused on weapons, you have as many in your Base set as any class has between Base and Classic (if you exclude Upgrade and Ashbringer). Also a number of your base cards have weapon synergy. This makes me very curious where you plan to go with your Classic cards because you don't seem to have that much room to grow unless you move away from these concepts or your you just end up with a lot of redundancy/bloat. Also, I think Rain of Steel shouldn't be a basic card. It doesn't say Windfury, but its very similar to giving your hero Windfury (or better considering most of your weapons have more than 2 durability). So while it isn't strictly disqualified because it doesn't use the Keyword I would consider moving it to Classic. I think Finishing Blow could just say damage minion, doesn't have to say damaged this turn.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
Hey guys!, Thanks to everyone who upvoted the Twilight's Hammer in Phase 1, and GL to everyone else in phase 2.
I've got a few concepts roughly worked out for my basic set and would love some feedback on them before i finalise them.
Saronite Vapours - I Think spell cost (3) more is a good spot for this card due to its 1 mana cost making it very easy to fit into other turns. The loatheb precedent (spell cost (5) more for ~0-0.5 mana) is a bit skewing for this kind of effect i feel.
Worldbreaker Shaman - I'm worried this might be too strong at 2 health and slightly too weak at 1 health. Currently i have it at 2 since all classes (i think) have a way of dealing 2 damage with spells/hero powers by turn 2.
Faceless Corruptor - Some Hero power synergy, 2/5 makes it a stick to board a bit and punishes expensive plays.
Saronite Animus - The "fire elemental" of the set, its a big threat around turn 6 that cant be dealt with using spells, rewards you for having maintained board control or forces the opponent to trade minions to conserve their health.
Thats all i have ready to show at the moment
Let me know what you guys think =)
Worldbreaker Shaman's title is truly fitting, it can be very problematic and I think it has well too much of an impact on the grand scheme of things.
edit: Even with the wording change, it's too strong - at least against certain classes. It has permanent Divine Shield against minion. That's not remotely balanced for 2 mana 2/2.
Faceless Corrupter's effect is also a bit too bursty for my taste. Just think about it, you play this on turn 9 or something your opponent now can't make use of his mana at all, unless he has a direct removal (which is needed for 5+ health), board presence or is willing to take 9 damage. Since you play it at the end of your turn, you get the benefit. If you are ahead, health means less to you. 2/5 stats for 3 mana are also over the top compared to VANILLA Druid of the Flame. I think dealing a flat amount (likeMagmatron), would be better.
Worldbreaker Shaman's title is truly fitting, it can be very problematic and I think it has well too much of an impact on the grand scheme of things.
edit: Even with the wording change, it's too strong - at least against certain classes. It has permanent Divine Shield against minion. That's not remotely balanced for 2 mana 2/2.
Yeah i was worried that might be the case, Does it feel any more appropriate as a 1/2 or at 3 mana? (I would personally prefer the minion to keep its cost at 2 as it was designed more as a early game control piece)
Faceless Corrupter's effect is also a bit too bursty for my taste. Just think about it, you play this on turn 9 or something your opponent now can't make use of his mana at all, unless he has a direct removal (which is needed for 5+ health), board presence or is willing to take 9 damage. Since you play it at the end of your turn, you get the benefit. If you are ahead, health means less to you. 2/5 stats for 3 mana are also over the top compared to VANILLA Druid of the Flame. I think dealing a flat amount (likeMagmatron), would be better.
I had made it a 2/4 after Elmo1191's post. The flat amount of damage does seem a bit smoother to play with/against, I've got it at 1 damage at the moment as i felt 2 was a bit much damage considering you can have 2 of these guys.
I don't know how you can balance Shaman without making it a late game card. Even then, I think I really dislike the ability. Tbh, I would rather see it gone. The potential BM with Argus / Sunfury is just too strong and that card alone can fend of an own deck archytype... you can even play 2 of those.
Faceless Corrupter feels now a bit too meaningless. If you keep it symmetrical, I think 2 damage can be fine, unless your class can be made into a face hunter mark 2. Otherwise, I think making the 1 damage effect only apply to your opponent would be fine too. I prefer the first option, as that gives the card more impact.
I don't know how you can balance Shaman without making it a late game card. Even then, I think I really dislike the ability. Tbh, I would rather see it gone. The potential BM with Argus / Sunfury is just too strong and that card alone can fend of an own deck archytype... you can even play 2 of those.
True, i hadn't considered that interaction actually.
How about this one, which is still thematically what i had envisioned for the card of the shaman throwing a fireball before the attack occurs:
Working similarly to explosive trap, where the damage applies before the attack occurs.
Would it be too powerful to also make it do the damage when it attacks? , if not, how could i word that effect without using the entire card face?
Hey guys!, Thanks to everyone who upvoted the Twilight's Hammer in Phase 1, and GL to everyone else in phase 2.
I've got a few concepts roughly worked out for my basic set and would love some feedback on them before i finalise them.
Saronite Vapours - I Think spell cost (3) more is a good spot for this card due to its 1 mana cost making it very easy to fit into other turns. The loatheb precedent (spell cost (5) more for ~0-0.5 mana) is a bit skewing for this kind of effect i feel.
Worldbreaker Shaman - I'm worried this might be too strong at 2 health and slightly too weak at 1 health. Currently i have it at 2 since all classes (i think) have a way of dealing 2 damage with spells/hero powers by turn 2.
Faceless Corruptor - Some Hero power synergy, 2/5 makes it a stick to board a bit and punishes expensive plays.
Saronite Animus - The "fire elemental" of the set, its a big threat around turn 6 that cant be dealt with using spells, rewards you for having maintained board control or forces the opponent to trade minions to conserve their health.
Thats all i have ready to show at the moment
Let me know what you guys think =)
I like them all mostly, and the fix on the corruptor is good, a 3 mana 2/5, just as kingslayers unseen ranger(with it's effect in particular) was far too powerful. In this sense, since elmo has been talking alot about comparing blance and design philosophies with other classes, I make a point of looking at card releases chronologically. Where when all the classes had only basic sets, 2/5 for 3 mana would have been a bit too generous. I think the saronite golem as well as the worldbreaker shaman shy away from your theme a bit, but as far as that goes, creating a secondary theme is very important, as people have pointed out, so all's great.
Dammit Arkasaur, stop changing up cards as I'm writing comments. New worldbreaker shaman is kindof pointless in any scenario besides the one zukuu mentioned, where you taunt it up. It'll just get forever ignored.
Yeah, I haven't moved on to phase 2, but here's what I was working on with for my phase 2 submission, as I didn't know the full format. I'll hide the entire post in a Spoiler, but if you're interested have a look and take what you want from the idea.
First off I'm going to give a decklist for the 20 Basic Neutral minions that much up the rest of your Basic deck.
These are the 5 class cards that you start the game with as a new player. This means your Basic deck is the cards in the above list but 2 copies of each of these. This will be the most basic experience a player would have with the class and will hopefully allow the to see the positive and negative elements of the class and either get them interested or turn them toward something they enjoy more. I'll do a bit of explanation on each of the class cards below.
1.) Burning Grasp - This is your basic cheap removal spell. Its one of the most direct copies of another classes card, which I know Blizzard did a lot of work to avoid but I felt like this card was pretty necessary. It obviously interacts well with your hero power but the more you buff it the less efficient it becomes. I felt this cost and damage point worked the better than the 2 mana 3 damage range.
2.) Pulsing Flames - This is your basic AoE. It costs 1 more than Arcane Explosion base, but obviously the hero power interaction is pretty decent. Its a 4 mana Consecrate that only hits minions, and it can be stronger than that but obviously that's a multiple turn investment to achieve that. This is of the the cards that was made only slightly less efficient for balance reasons, but on the whole even wanting to cast this as just the simple 1 damage version shouldn't feel bad when its what you want.
3.) Sin'dorei Historian - This is the card draw spell your class starts with. Its also your only starting class minion so that even the Basic deck hopefully has enough interactions that people won't wonder why your hero power does nothing without a spell. Its a fairly basic card, and being a class card I decided 2/3 was fine, but I could easily see it being a 2/2 if pressed.
4.) Gravity Lapse - This is probably the most confusing of the cards, but its a double dipping interactions that doesn't deal damage, to help clarify that the hero power isn't and shouldn't just be a Spell Damage buff. This is obviously a tempo card, and I think its cool and fun. I've noted on other peoples cards that cost increases don't appear in the Base Set but this is a flavor choice, and I hope people don't consider it too complex for base set, though it may be. I'm not sure what cards I'd change out but there are some options in the classic cards.
5.) Arcane Eruption - This is also one of our cards that double dips on the number increase, effectively gaining 2 damage per Hero Power. I like the basic design/idea of this card because of the hero power interaction, but I don't think it needs to be targeted to be a playable card, unlike Cobra Shot, probably one of the closest comparisons. Against a single large minion or on an empty board this can deal much more direct damage, and against a rush type deck you could still easily kill 2-3 minions if you got lucky. There is a very very minor consideration to put this down to 4 mana, but I believe 5 is correct. This was one of my original example cards.
1.) Craven Blood Magus - This is our first and only Base Set card that shows any kind of mana interaction between you and your opponent, but that will be developed more with the Classic cards. This card can be a pretty huge attack minions for 1 mana, but there are only 2 major situations where that happens. Your opponent has a terrible curve or you are giving up the majority of your turn, and since this doesn't gain health thought that was fine. I thought about making this a 1/3 but that makes it way too efficient when played up to turn 4 as a 4 drop, and that is way too good for a 1 drop. This card is unlocked at level 2
2.) Mental Elasticity - This is our basic card draw spell. Its a simple 1 mana cycle, however if you spend the time to target this with the hero power once you get 2 cards for effectively 2 mana. You can continue to target this with your hero power increasing the cost per card by 2. This will lead to one of the most efficient card draw spells but you have to consider your hero power doesn't directly affect the board, and since you aren't modifying a potential damage spell you are only allowing yourself card advantage at a later time. This is one of my original example cards, during the Submission round. This is the card unlocked at level 4.
3.) Power Conduit - This is our buff card. Most classes have some form of buff and this was the one I determined to fit Blood Mage. Its been readjusted for a touch more balance around the hero power. There was a interesting bit of development with this card. I'm sure while this card appears to be rather similar to Mark of the Wild, but the Tauntgiven by this card actually isn't generally meant to be a positive effect. You aren't buffing your minions health up by a great deal, but as almost anyone knows, protecting Spell Damage minions can lead to a very big swing in your favor, therefore I decided that the Taunt would actually help keep this card fair. I also think its important to design cards that could be playable in certain situations but are only played in fringe situations if at all, and lets be honest, buff aren't particularly popular in many class so if its slightly under powered its probably fine. Better than making it imbalanced just to make it playable. No class has 10 amazing basic cards, an no one deck is or was made up of any classes 10 basic cards plus 10 neutrals. This card is unlocked at level 6.
4.) Arcane Annihilator - This is our big minion, and its also the first ever Spell Damage +2 cards. I think that Spell Damage should be more prominent in Mage classes, and so I thought it would be fun to make a really big minion, and obviously Blood Elves love there Arcane Golems. This was one of my first ideas for the class minions and while at one point I shared a very different version of a card with this name I believe this one is the best card I could have designed for what I wanted to show in the class. This is unlocked at level 8.
5.) Wave of Flame - This is our big AoE. Not every class has one of these but this class does. This was actually one of the original cards, but I had it placed at Rare, after examining a number of classes basic cards I decided this was probably fine. I even reduced the cost from the original. There is a bit of redundancy in most classes, and I think this is a perfectly suitable card for its cost. This is effectively a 1 sided Hellfire, with the potential to be much sweeter if you find the time to invest into it. This is the card unlocked at level 10.
So there you have it, the 10 Basic Blood Mage cards. If you're inspired by this class or curious about my design process feel free to let me know. If you think I'm an idiot who missed the mark and designed something poorly or over powered you can let me know about that also.
Cards I like design wise - blood craven magus, arcane annihilator and gravity lapse. Cards I like balance wise - wave of flames and burning grasp. Like really, the only thing I dislike about the submission is the balancing that goes into the cards, because you are forced to account for your hero power. But I can also see the fun with playing this kind of hero - 'which crazy spell am I gonna use this match' and that certainly has it's charm.
Your class seems very very focused on weapons, you have as many in your Base set as any class has between Base and Classic (if you exclude Upgrade and Ashbringer). Also a number of your base cards have weapon synergy. This makes me very curious where you plan to go with your Classic cards because you don't seem to have that much room to grow unless you move away from these concepts or your you just end up with a lot of redundancy/bloat. Also, I think Rain of Steel shouldn't be a basic card. It doesn't say Windfury, but its very similar to giving your hero Windfury (or better considering most of your weapons have more than 2 durability). So while it isn't strictly disqualified because it doesn't use the Keyword I would consider moving it to Classic. I think Finishing Blow could just say damage minion, doesn't have to say damaged this turn.
Decided to comment on your glorious speech about the class sets, but I'll settle for an upvote. And, yes, the class is very weapon driven, I also think that I pushed the synergy thing a bit too far. Supply and Watcher Weaponmaster shouldn't fill up the basic slots, I was indeed very happy with elven scout, because she gave me this 'filler' feel. I won't back down on the weapons though, I'm actually going as far, as to include 2 more in the expert set. It's just her 'thing' - you might as well consider it a keyword.
The reason rain of steel is basic because I have a feeling with it like 'kill command', 'swipe' etc. - as in the signature card, that everyone may expect as an auto include in the class. Since it sparks alot of discussion though, I really want to get it to 'acceptable' level though.
Well, I want finishing blow also to hit face, should I then reword to damaged enemy charachter?
So, do I have Asylum's permission to change up my 2 spoiler basic cards for more fillery ones?
Hey don't steal my ideas! :p (Didn't work out the balance or artwork or anything, just some rough drafts)
g
either that or this:
The effect is fine, but as a 1/2 your opponent can kinda ignore it forever, since it can't trade for shit and 1 damage / turn isn't very impacting. Also dies to AoEs, so it kinda needs taunt or be an actual threat in terms of damage.
The effect is fine, but as a 1/2 your opponent can kinda ignore it forever, since it can't trade for shit and 1 damage / turn isn't very impacting. Also dies to AoEs, so it kinda needs taunt or be an actual threat in terms of damage.
Haha, didn't mean to get it so close to your idea =P, sorry.
Thats what i was asking with the effect also occuring when it attacks so its basically a 3/2 but 2 of its damage always gets applied first, like first strike in magic: the gathering, It seems slightly underwhelming defensively and slightly overpowered offensively.
Worldbreaker Shaman is definitely too strong. You've made it only killable with Spell and Hero Power I believe without considering the fact that only the Mage hero power (and I guess priest and hunter giving them also having another) can kill this. The druid/rogue/pally, and less extent shaman hero powers give you weapons/attack/minions but none of those will actually kill the minion. Some classes will have even more trouble. Paladin and Warrior for example may never be able to kill this. If it said spells and heroes, so you could actually attack it with weapons that might help balance it out.
Faceless Corrupter even as a symmetrical card is probably too strong as a 2/5 because you opponent is almost always taking damage to kill this early but you aren't. 2/4 is still likely to survive just about every 2 or 3 cost minion and still require something else and I think that is pretty more balanced.
I think most of the other cards seem fine, no major imbalances and some cool designs and flavors.
my post was a bit slow looks like you've already made some of these changes.
Making it work on attacks is kinda weird to implement. It attacks, target dies.. what happens? Does it attack nothing? Does it STILL attack, even tho the minion has 0 health? etc I can see the latter part being done, but that would make the card basically a slightly better 3/2 vanilla minion, so it's kinda pointless.
I think making it a 2/2 with the same effect for 2 mana would make it decent. 2 damage are harder to ignore, and it trades 1 to 1 with a 2/4 and kills of anything below 3 health right away, but lacks any other effect as a trade off. It could be seen as a better 4/2 for 2 mana, when it is attacked. Might be even a bit too strong, but seeing it's a class minion, it might be fine. Dunno what other people think about that.
It's a FRESH Abomination. :p I mean, look at that smug Prince of Bel Air grin.
@ShadowsOfSense
Just thematically, I like to see the 1 drop being a basic minion, so I would go with Scroll Keeper.
As for Scroll Keeper itself, it's a very ambivalent card. If you go first, it's straight up OP (in particular combined with the 0 mana spell). If you go second, he could be very weak. I guess that makes him balanced tho.
@DonnieMcKarlo
I still think the hero power is worded weirdly. Just "sounds" wrong and is a bit unclear imo.
Well damn, I'm just on a roll today aren't I? Welp, that'll have to be bumped up to a Common then, and I'll see if I have anything I can move down. Or maybe I'll just have to create a new card >.<
Glad I posted the cards here first XD
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!
Hey guys!, Thanks to everyone who upvoted the Twilight's Hammer in Phase 1, and GL to everyone else in phase 2.
I've got a few concepts roughly worked out for my basic set and would love some feedback on them before i finalise them.
Saronite Vapours - I Think spell cost (3) more is a good spot for this card due to its 1 mana cost making it very easy to fit into other turns. The loatheb precedent (spell cost (5) more for ~0-0.5 mana) is a bit skewing for this kind of effect i feel.
Worldbreaker Shaman - I'm worried this might be too strong at 2 health and slightly too weak at 1 health. Currently i have it at 2 since all classes (i think) have a way of dealing 2 damage with spells/hero powers by turn 2.
Faceless Corruptor - Some Hero power synergy, 2/5 makes it a stick to board a bit and punishes expensive plays.
Saronite Animus - The "fire elemental" of the set, its a big threat around turn 6 that cant be dealt with using spells, rewards you for having maintained board control or forces the opponent to trade minions to conserve their health.
Thats all i have ready to show at the moment
Let me know what you guys think =)
Yeah, I haven't moved on to phase 2, but here's what I was working on with for my phase 2 submission, as I didn't know the full format. I'll hide the entire post in a Spoiler, but if you're interested have a look and take what you want from the idea.
First off I'm going to give a decklist for the 20 Basic Neutral minions that much up the rest of your Basic deck.
These are the 5 class cards that you start the game with as a new player. This means your Basic deck is the cards in the above list but 2 copies of each of these. This will be the most basic experience a player would have with the class and will hopefully allow the to see the positive and negative elements of the class and either get them interested or turn them toward something they enjoy more. I'll do a bit of explanation on each of the class cards below.
1.) Burning Grasp - This is your basic cheap removal spell. Its one of the most direct copies of another classes card, which I know Blizzard did a lot of work to avoid but I felt like this card was pretty necessary. It obviously interacts well with your hero power but the more you buff it the less efficient it becomes. I felt this cost and damage point worked the better than the 2 mana 3 damage range.
2.) Pulsing Flames - This is your basic AoE. It costs 1 more than Arcane Explosion base, but obviously the hero power interaction is pretty decent. Its a 4 mana Consecrate that only hits minions, and it can be stronger than that but obviously that's a multiple turn investment to achieve that. This is of the the cards that was made only slightly less efficient for balance reasons, but on the whole even wanting to cast this as just the simple 1 damage version shouldn't feel bad when its what you want.
3.) Sin'dorei Historian - This is the card draw spell your class starts with. Its also your only starting class minion so that even the Basic deck hopefully has enough interactions that people won't wonder why your hero power does nothing without a spell. Its a fairly basic card, and being a class card I decided 2/3 was fine, but I could easily see it being a 2/2 if pressed.
4.) Gravity Lapse - This is probably the most confusing of the cards, but its a double dipping interactions that doesn't deal damage, to help clarify that the hero power isn't and shouldn't just be a Spell Damage buff. This is obviously a tempo card, and I think its cool and fun. I've noted on other peoples cards that cost increases don't appear in the Base Set but this is a flavor choice, and I hope people don't consider it too complex for base set, though it may be. I'm not sure what cards I'd change out but there are some options in the classic cards.
5.) Arcane Eruption - This is also one of our cards that double dips on the number increase, effectively gaining 2 damage per Hero Power. I like the basic design/idea of this card because of the hero power interaction, but I don't think it needs to be targeted to be a playable card, unlike Cobra Shot, probably one of the closest comparisons. Against a single large minion or on an empty board this can deal much more direct damage, and against a rush type deck you could still easily kill 2-3 minions if you got lucky. There is a very very minor consideration to put this down to 4 mana, but I believe 5 is correct. This was one of my original example cards.
1.) Craven Blood Magus - This is our first and only Base Set card that shows any kind of mana interaction between you and your opponent, but that will be developed more with the Classic cards. This card can be a pretty huge attack minions for 1 mana, but there are only 2 major situations where that happens. Your opponent has a terrible curve or you are giving up the majority of your turn, and since this doesn't gain health thought that was fine. I thought about making this a 1/3 but that makes it way too efficient when played up to turn 4 as a 4 drop, and that is way too good for a 1 drop. This card is unlocked at level 2
2.) Mental Elasticity - This is our basic card draw spell. Its a simple 1 mana cycle, however if you spend the time to target this with the hero power once you get 2 cards for effectively 2 mana. You can continue to target this with your hero power increasing the cost per card by 2. This will lead to one of the most efficient card draw spells but you have to consider your hero power doesn't directly affect the board, and since you aren't modifying a potential damage spell you are only allowing yourself card advantage at a later time. This is one of my original example cards, during the Submission round. This is the card unlocked at level 4.
3.) Power Conduit - This is our buff card. Most classes have some form of buff and this was the one I determined to fit Blood Mage. Its been readjusted for a touch more balance around the hero power. There was a interesting bit of development with this card. I'm sure while this card appears to be rather similar to Mark of the Wild, but the Tauntgiven by this card actually isn't generally meant to be a positive effect. You aren't buffing your minions health up by a great deal, but as almost anyone knows, protecting Spell Damage minions can lead to a very big swing in your favor, therefore I decided that the Taunt would actually help keep this card fair. I also think its important to design cards that could be playable in certain situations but are only played in fringe situations if at all, and lets be honest, buff aren't particularly popular in many class so if its slightly under powered its probably fine. Better than making it imbalanced just to make it playable. No class has 10 amazing basic cards, an no one deck is or was made up of any classes 10 basic cards plus 10 neutrals. This card is unlocked at level 6.
4.) Arcane Annihilator - This is our big minion, and its also the first ever Spell Damage +2 cards. I think that Spell Damage should be more prominent in Mage classes, and so I thought it would be fun to make a really big minion, and obviously Blood Elves love there Arcane Golems. This was one of my first ideas for the class minions and while at one point I shared a very different version of a card with this name I believe this one is the best card I could have designed for what I wanted to show in the class. This is unlocked at level 8.
5.) Wave of Flame - This is our big AoE. Not every class has one of these but this class does. This was actually one of the original cards, but I had it placed at Rare, after examining a number of classes basic cards I decided this was probably fine. I even reduced the cost from the original. There is a bit of redundancy in most classes, and I think this is a perfectly suitable card for its cost. This is effectively a 1 sided Hellfire, with the potential to be much sweeter if you find the time to invest into it. This is the card unlocked at level 10.
So there you have it, the 10 Basic Blood Mage cards. If you're inspired by this class or curious about my design process feel free to let me know. If you think I'm an idiot who missed the mark and designed something poorly or over powered you can let me know about that also.
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
Class design is much deeper than just making 3, 10, 24, or even all 35 cards for a class. Its about making something that appears cohesive and multifaceted. No class in the game has every card designed to fit 1 play style, they often have many different cards with different ideas and approaches, even if one things becomes the dominant one. Its actually a lot harder to design cards that are fringe playable or even just not good enough. I think many people that go to the end of this will end up making classes with too many good focused cards and not enough filler. That seems to be what people want though, even with the Weekly Card Design contest people tend to favor cards that would be imbalanced than good but balanced.
We are designing classes but with the ideas and knowledge of a game that has been out for 18 months and already has 3 different card releases. Properly approaching a class to make the Base Set, Classic Cards and 3 different expansion cards all fit not only the class but also the Set they are considered to be from is very strange. Also, blizzard has months to test Base Set and Classic before the game was released, not to mention Naxx, GvG and BRM, and even they have had to change, nerf and even very rarely buff/tweak cards to get the game to the state its in now.
I commend anyone that makes a class concept good or bad, and I support anyone that moved on to the this round in the contest. I know my own submission, after review, didn't hit the notes I wanted and so I overhauled my preview cards. I know some of you have no reason to deeply examine your posts, you already moved on and I didn't, but if I have some advice that might help moving forward. Look at each of the 3 larger set releases individually in order of release for each class, and consider how they interacted with the Base Set deck you got while originally leveling/playing the class. Think about actually building that 30 card deck with nothing but the 10 base set cards you designed for your class and the base set minions everyone has at the start, then think about what you would have wanted to be in your classic set, how that would really bring out the keywords and enhance the flavor without negating your base set cards. Then you can look at GvG, which has a few expansion themed cards (Mech, random effect cards), and then has some cards that also filled in a few of the weaknesses or enhanced existing ideas within the class. Obviously Naxx and BRM didn't do a lot to enhance most classes, but it brings out very specific themes inspired by the raid, so those cards should be easy to design as interesting stand alone ideas.
Anyway, I'll shut up and start giving more specific feedback now.
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
Ah thanks, that is a better way of wording it for balance, I'll definitely go ahead with that cahnge.
Even with the effect being symmetrical? It hits yourself as well so you still have to be careful with what you're playing. But yes, i realise its health may be a little on the heavy side for 3 mana., might make it a 4 mana 2/4, then yes?
Thanks for the feedback by the way =)
also Vapours can be spelt either way =P
@ ShadowOfSense
As many people already mentioned you did use Silence, which isn't allowed in Base set, but I think you have more to focus on than just that. Your basic set is very very focused, many of the cards use the exact same mechanics and almost all of them have direct synergies. This is probably a bit too focused for Base Set. Warded Pages must have an intended interaction with Blazefire Book, but I could be wrong if so feel free to correct me. If you do intend this to work Blazefire Book can't say destroy. Also I think Warded Pages could cost 1 either way. Unless you have some other very interesting cards in mind this isn't likely to net you more than 1 durability most of the time, and Upgrade gives you 1 durability and 1 attack for just 1 mana.
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
I just want to quote this for emphasis.
@ DonnieMcKarlo
Your class seems very very focused on weapons, you have as many in your Base set as any class has between Base and Classic (if you exclude Upgrade and Ashbringer). Also a number of your base cards have weapon synergy. This makes me very curious where you plan to go with your Classic cards because you don't seem to have that much room to grow unless you move away from these concepts or your you just end up with a lot of redundancy/bloat. Also, I think Rain of Steel shouldn't be a basic card. It doesn't say Windfury, but its very similar to giving your hero Windfury (or better considering most of your weapons have more than 2 durability). So while it isn't strictly disqualified because it doesn't use the Keyword I would consider moving it to Classic. I think Finishing Blow could just say damage minion, doesn't have to say damaged this turn.
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
Worldbreaker Shaman's title is truly fitting, it can be very problematic and I think it has well too much of an impact on the grand scheme of things.
edit: Even with the wording change, it's too strong - at least against certain classes. It has permanent Divine Shield against minion. That's not remotely balanced for 2 mana 2/2.
Faceless Corrupter's effect is also a bit too bursty for my taste. Just think about it, you play this on turn 9 or something your opponent now can't make use of his mana at all, unless he has a direct removal (which is needed for 5+ health), board presence or is willing to take 9 damage. Since you play it at the end of your turn, you get the benefit. If you are ahead, health means less to you. 2/5 stats for 3 mana are also over the top compared to VANILLA Druid of the Flame. I think dealing a flat amount (likeMagmatron), would be better.
Yeah i was worried that might be the case, Does it feel any more appropriate as a 1/2 or at 3 mana? (I would personally prefer the minion to keep its cost at 2 as it was designed more as a early game control piece)
I had made it a 2/4 after Elmo1191's post. The flat amount of damage does seem a bit smoother to play with/against, I've got it at 1 damage at the moment as i felt 2 was a bit much damage considering you can have 2 of these guys.
I don't know how you can balance Shaman without making it a late game card. Even then, I think I really dislike the ability. Tbh, I would rather see it gone. The potential BM with Argus / Sunfury is just too strong and that card alone can fend of an own deck archytype... you can even play 2 of those.
Faceless Corrupter feels now a bit too meaningless. If you keep it symmetrical, I think 2 damage can be fine, unless your class can be made into a face hunter mark 2. Otherwise, I think making the 1 damage effect only apply to your opponent would be fine too. I prefer the first option, as that gives the card more impact.
True, i hadn't considered that interaction actually.
How about this one, which is still thematically what i had envisioned for the card of the shaman throwing a fireball before the attack occurs:
Working similarly to explosive trap, where the damage applies before the attack occurs.
Would it be too powerful to also make it do the damage when it attacks? , if not, how could i word that effect without using the entire card face?
I like them all mostly, and the fix on the corruptor is good, a 3 mana 2/5, just as kingslayers unseen ranger(with it's effect in particular) was far too powerful. In this sense, since elmo has been talking alot about comparing blance and design philosophies with other classes, I make a point of looking at card releases chronologically. Where when all the classes had only basic sets, 2/5 for 3 mana would have been a bit too generous. I think the saronite golem as well as the worldbreaker shaman shy away from your theme a bit, but as far as that goes, creating a secondary theme is very important, as people have pointed out, so all's great.
Dammit Arkasaur, stop changing up cards as I'm writing comments. New worldbreaker shaman is kindof pointless in any scenario besides the one zukuu mentioned, where you taunt it up. It'll just get forever ignored.
Cards I like design wise - blood craven magus, arcane annihilator and gravity lapse. Cards I like balance wise - wave of flames and burning grasp. Like really, the only thing I dislike about the submission is the balancing that goes into the cards, because you are forced to account for your hero power. But I can also see the fun with playing this kind of hero - 'which crazy spell am I gonna use this match' and that certainly has it's charm.
Decided to comment on your glorious speech about the class sets, but I'll settle for an upvote. And, yes, the class is very weapon driven, I also think that I pushed the synergy thing a bit too far. Supply and Watcher Weaponmaster shouldn't fill up the basic slots, I was indeed very happy with elven scout, because she gave me this 'filler' feel. I won't back down on the weapons though, I'm actually going as far, as to include 2 more in the expert set. It's just her 'thing' - you might as well consider it a keyword.
The reason rain of steel is basic because I have a feeling with it like 'kill command', 'swipe' etc. - as in the signature card, that everyone may expect as an auto include in the class. Since it sparks alot of discussion though, I really want to get it to 'acceptable' level though.
Well, I want finishing blow also to hit face, should I then reword to damaged enemy charachter?
So, do I have Asylum's permission to change up my 2 spoiler basic cards for more fillery ones?
Hey don't steal my ideas! :p (Didn't work out the balance or artwork or anything, just some rough drafts)
g
either that or this:
The effect is fine, but as a 1/2 your opponent can kinda ignore it forever, since it can't trade for shit and 1 damage / turn isn't very impacting. Also dies to AoEs, so it kinda needs taunt or be an actual threat in terms of damage.
Haha, didn't mean to get it so close to your idea =P, sorry.
Thats what i was asking with the effect also occuring when it attacks so its basically a 3/2 but 2 of its damage always gets applied first, like first strike in magic: the gathering, It seems slightly underwhelming defensively and slightly overpowered offensively.
@ Arkasaur
Worldbreaker Shaman is definitely too strong. You've made it only killable with Spell and Hero Power I believe without considering the fact that only the Mage hero power (and I guess priest and hunter giving them also having another) can kill this. The druid/rogue/pally, and less extent shaman hero powers give you weapons/attack/minions but none of those will actually kill the minion. Some classes will have even more trouble. Paladin and Warrior for example may never be able to kill this. If it said spells and heroes, so you could actually attack it with weapons that might help balance it out.
Faceless Corrupter even as a symmetrical card is probably too strong as a 2/5 because you opponent is almost always taking damage to kill this early but you aren't. 2/4 is still likely to survive just about every 2 or 3 cost minion and still require something else and I think that is pretty more balanced.
I think most of the other cards seem fine, no major imbalances and some cool designs and flavors.
my post was a bit slow looks like you've already made some of these changes.
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
Making it work on attacks is kinda weird to implement. It attacks, target dies.. what happens? Does it attack nothing? Does it STILL attack, even tho the minion has 0 health? etc I can see the latter part being done, but that would make the card basically a slightly better 3/2 vanilla minion, so it's kinda pointless.
I think making it a 2/2 with the same effect for 2 mana would make it decent. 2 damage are harder to ignore, and it trades 1 to 1 with a 2/4 and kills of anything below 3 health right away, but lacks any other effect as a trade off. It could be seen as a better 4/2 for 2 mana, when it is attacked. Might be even a bit too strong, but seeing it's a class minion, it might be fine. Dunno what other people think about that.
What do you guys think if I replace Watcher Weaponmaster and Supply with these cards respectively?
Congrats to the winners.
However, I daresay I am quite a Salty Dog atm -_-
Check here for my new cards!Pokemon HS class!All the Pokemon as HS cards!