Would you play this card? What are your thoughts on the balance?
EDIT: Think of it like Gorz from Yu-gi-Oh (a strong monster that summons it self from the hand when you take direct damage, plus a monster with attack equal to the damage you took). Just the fear of the possibility being there, it keeps you back from attacking face and make the trades instead, waiting for when you're ready to face it.
If you want a card that every single deck would run this would be in strong contention. Absolutely no drawback, strong stats, and a free casts on getting attacked which an opponent will have to do eventually.
I dig the general mechanic and idea a lot, one suggestion would be to have some sort of penalty if it is played from hand like -2/-2 (or vice versa, it gets the penalty if it comes from hand in this way but full stats if played.)
Simply would be played in every single lategame deck. There is pretty much no minion you could potentially put on the field within the first 2 turns that trades efficiently with this thing.
At the same time it's zero cost and even works as a pseudo taunt for one attack. This MAY be okay as something like a 4/2 with the cost being 5 (not that it would matter).
Not just lategame, this would be played in EVERYTHING. Why would aggro not want a 4/4 for free?
Even as a 4/2, this is essentially a 0 mana Vaporize that provides no info to play around.
I do like the idea of this, but it's horribly OP.
It needs a drawback, there's really no possible stat adjustment that could put this in line with other cards.
Even as a 0/4, it's strictly better than Shieldbearer. (Maybe not strictly better since it lacks taunt, but that will be irrelevant most of the time.)
There is no way of reading when your opponent has this card in their hand, therefore making this card flawed in design. In YGO, you had to take direct damage to activate Gorz which means you purposefully left your field COMPLETELY clear of monsters, spells, and traps your previous turn. (In YGO, you can't attack directly if there are monsters on your opponents side of the field) Due to the freedom in HS to choose to attack face or board, there is no possible way to read your opponent having Kelpie because he can literally play it whenever you attack face, UNLESS, you make Kelpie only droppable when you don't have a minion on your side of the board.
Nonetheless, a hand-trap like this would just be too good for a slow game like HS. It essentially costs 0 mana, and simply gets played to the board when the requirement is met. This card would be so good, it would become staple for every deck, which isn't healthy. Hearthstone doesn't have any staple neutrals that work for every deck and it's pretty nice. Every card in the game is situational, or just needs x to make y work. Something like Kelpie won't exist in HS for a long time. Not until this game power creeps as fucking hard as YGO has, where 15 cards of your deck are the same as everybody else's, because those 15 cards are just so strong that they have to be played in every deck or you'll lose.
For anyone's reference, this is what OP's idea stemmed from. Attached is Gorz, the Emissary of Darkness
I just had an idea to make this card have a very strong niche in control decks and not played in every deck out there. What if the card was a 1/6 body, 4 mana, and the text read,
"While you have 8 or more cards in your hand, when your hero is attacked by a minion, put this minion from your hand into the battlefield and make it the new target. Destroy any minion damaged by this minion."
This could make the card only viable in Handlock/ Control decks due to its hand size requirement, AND also allow this card not to be played too early. Also, the Cobra effect allows this card to have insane value midgame but still retain it through to the endgame.
And because of it's hand size requirement, you could make a read that your opponent could be holding his hand to be able to drop Kelpie.
I just had an idea to make this card have a very strong niche in control decks and not played in every deck out there. What if the card was a 1/6 body, 4 mana, and the text read,
"While you have 8 or more cards in your hand, when your hero is attacked by a minion, put this minion from your hand into the battlefield and make it the new target. Destroy any minion damaged by this minion."
This could make the card only viable in Handlock/ Control decks due to its hand size requirement, AND also allow this card not to be played too early. Also, the Cobra effect allows this card to have insane value midgame but still retain it through to the endgame.
And because of it's hand size requirement, you could make a read that your opponent could be holding his hand to be able to drop Kelpie.
It's still OP.
Does Handlock need a 0 mana Vaporize with no secret icon to act as a tell?
I've read all your feedback and received really good and helpful responses! Thank you for the correspondence. I did understood that the card is really strong as it is.
An idea I liked was to decrease its stats upon summoning via its effect. Of course then I could just make it weaker from the beginning. Or give it more viable stats to be played on its own, and also the ability to summon itself when you're attacked, but weakened.
Another balance correction would be to not make it the new target, but the starting idea was something that interferes and protects you when you're attacked. With this in mind, either I keep the health equal to the attack and don't make it the new target, or make the health really small and make it the target.
So my options currently are:
2M 2/2, The effect as it is
4M 4/4, -2/-2 upon summoning via its effect, not the new target
4M 4/4, -2/-3 instead and it becomes the target
This way it even dies for free against a 2/3.
The point is that you can control when you want to play Noble Sacrifice, but this is out of your control. It triggers automatically when you're attacked, even when you don't need it. You may as well choose to play it as a 4/4.
Keep in mind that I WANT this to be strong and to be a fear, that's why it's legendary afterall.
I just had an idea to make this card have a very strong niche in control decks and not played in every deck out there. What if the card was a 1/6 body, 4 mana, and the text read,
"While you have 8 or more cards in your hand, when your hero is attacked by a minion, put this minion from your hand into the battlefield and make it the new target. Destroy any minion damaged by this minion."
This could make the card only viable in Handlock/ Control decks due to its hand size requirement, AND also allow this card not to be played too early. Also, the Cobra effect allows this card to have insane value midgame but still retain it through to the endgame.
And because of it's hand size requirement, you could make a read that your opponent could be holding his hand to be able to drop Kelpie.
It's still OP.
Does Handlock need a 0 mana Vaporize with no secret icon to act as a tell?
It's not a matter of if Handlock needs this support, but if this is a cool idea for the deck type in general?
I just had an idea to make this card have a very strong niche in control decks and not played in every deck out there. What if the card was a 1/6 body, 4 mana, and the text read,
"While you have 8 or more cards in your hand, when your hero is attacked by a minion, put this minion from your hand into the battlefield and make it the new target. Destroy any minion damaged by this minion."
This could make the card only viable in Handlock/ Control decks due to its hand size requirement, AND also allow this card not to be played too early. Also, the Cobra effect allows this card to have insane value midgame but still retain it through to the endgame.
And because of it's hand size requirement, you could make a read that your opponent could be holding his hand to be able to drop Kelpie.
It's still OP.
Does Handlock need a 0 mana Vaporize with no secret icon to act as a tell?
It's not a matter of if Handlock needs this support, but if this is a cool idea for the deck type in general?
I suppose what I should have said is "does the GAME need a deck (Handlock) that can run a 0 mana Vaporize with no secret icon to act as a tell?"
I updated the card so now it gets -2/-2 upon summon and doesn't become the new target.
Even so, it's twice the stats of a wisp for the same cost, plus a pseudo charge.
If I play something on my own turn, the opponent has a full turn to deal with it before it can attack.
Very often, especially on turn 2-3, the opponent will spend their mana before attacking, which will give you a free 2/2 that they no longer have means to deal with that turn. In this case, it's the equivalent of a 2/2 with charge.
Even if the enemy expects this and plays around it, it's a 0 mana 2/2, that becomes a 4/4 if silenced.
There is no possible way to make this balanced via stat changes unless you make it a 0/1 or something, as even a 1/1 would be strictly better than a Wisp.
It needs to have some sort of a drawback a la Millhouse Manastorm or FoN Treants.
I disagree, it is only "free" in cost when summoned because of an attack and it essentially wastes the card because you can't control what triggers it coming out. Attack to face order can be controlled. The drawback is that you don't get to play it for full stats most often. Burning an opponent's card has value and that is the tradeoff.
I disagree, it is only "free" in cost when summoned because of an attack and it essentially wastes the card because you can't control what triggers it coming out. Attack to face order can be controlled. The drawback is that you don't get to play it for full stats most often. Burning an opponent's card has value and that is the tradeoff.
His change nerfed the stats and also eliminated the "make this the target" portion of the card, so attack order is irrelevant.
I updated the card so now it gets -2/-2 upon summon and doesn't become the new target.
Even so, it's twice the stats of a wisp for the same cost, plus a pseudo charge.
If I play something on my own turn, the opponent has a full turn to deal with it before it can attack.
Very often, especially on turn 2-3, the opponent will spend their mana before attacking, which will give you a free 2/2 that they no longer have means to deal with that turn. In this case, it's the equivalent of a 2/2 with charge.
Even if the enemy expects this and plays around it, it's a 0 mana 2/2, that becomes a 4/4 if silenced.
There is no possible way to make this balanced via stat changes unless you make it a 0/1 or something, as even a 1/1 would be strictly better than a Wisp.
It needs to have some sort of a drawback a la Millhouse Manastorm or FoN Treants.
Still, I can't see why it's better than Voidcaller, which can get you much stronger minions for free.
Yea, I like that idea actually. A 2/2 seems fail and isn't game breaking but, I think maybe making it a 4/4 for 4mana played from hand is a bit too good because it's basically a card without a downside. Or should I say not much of a downside. The standard 4drop is Yeti, so this is a Yeti with 1 less hp if played from hand, yet has the potential to also be a free 2/2.
I think making it a 5mana is more reasonable. So it can be a bit more punishing against control decks. Also this seems like a rare card. Doesn't really fit the profile of a legendary or epic.
Yea, I like that idea actually. A 2/2 seems fail and isn't game breaking but, I think maybe making it a 4/4 for 4mana played from hand is a bit too good because it's basically a card without a downside. Or should I say not much of a downside. The standard 4drop is Yeti, so this is a Yeti with 1 less hp if played from hand, yet has the potential to also be a free 2/2.
I think making it a 5mana is more reasonable. So it can be a bit more punishing against control decks. Also this seems like a rare card. Doesn't really fit the profile of a legendary or epic.
Yes, the idea behind increasing its mana cost has a point. I'll consider it.
But it's the type of card that has to be a one-of. You don't want to be afraid of a second one. That's why I made it legendary.
Would you play this card? What are your thoughts on the balance?
EDIT: Think of it like Gorz from Yu-gi-Oh (a strong monster that summons it self from the hand when you take direct damage, plus a monster with attack equal to the damage you took). Just the fear of the possibility being there, it keeps you back from attacking face and make the trades instead, waiting for when you're ready to face it.
EDIT 2: Balance changes.
My custom classes : /// / My Card Factory!
maybe 1/3 instead?
Galavant Animation
If you want a card that every single deck would run this would be in strong contention. Absolutely no drawback, strong stats, and a free casts on getting attacked which an opponent will have to do eventually.
I dig the general mechanic and idea a lot, one suggestion would be to have some sort of penalty if it is played from hand like -2/-2 (or vice versa, it gets the penalty if it comes from hand in this way but full stats if played.)
Not just lategame, this would be played in EVERYTHING. Why would aggro not want a 4/4 for free?
Even as a 4/2, this is essentially a 0 mana Vaporize that provides no info to play around.
I do like the idea of this, but it's horribly OP.
It needs a drawback, there's really no possible stat adjustment that could put this in line with other cards.
Even as a 0/4, it's strictly better than Shieldbearer. (Maybe not strictly better since it lacks taunt, but that will be irrelevant most of the time.)
Maybe something like this:
There is no way of reading when your opponent has this card in their hand, therefore making this card flawed in design. In YGO, you had to take direct damage to activate Gorz which means you purposefully left your field COMPLETELY clear of monsters, spells, and traps your previous turn. (In YGO, you can't attack directly if there are monsters on your opponents side of the field) Due to the freedom in HS to choose to attack face or board, there is no possible way to read your opponent having Kelpie because he can literally play it whenever you attack face, UNLESS, you make Kelpie only droppable when you don't have a minion on your side of the board.
Nonetheless, a hand-trap like this would just be too good for a slow game like HS. It essentially costs 0 mana, and simply gets played to the board when the requirement is met. This card would be so good, it would become staple for every deck, which isn't healthy. Hearthstone doesn't have any staple neutrals that work for every deck and it's pretty nice. Every card in the game is situational, or just needs x to make y work. Something like Kelpie won't exist in HS for a long time. Not until this game power creeps as fucking hard as YGO has, where 15 cards of your deck are the same as everybody else's, because those 15 cards are just so strong that they have to be played in every deck or you'll lose.
For anyone's reference, this is what OP's idea stemmed from. Attached is Gorz, the Emissary of Darkness
I just had an idea to make this card have a very strong niche in control decks and not played in every deck out there.
What if the card was a 1/6 body, 4 mana, and the text read,
"While you have 8 or more cards in your hand, when your hero is attacked by a minion, put this minion from your hand into the battlefield and make it the new target.
Destroy any minion damaged by this minion."
This could make the card only viable in Handlock/ Control decks due to its hand size requirement, AND also allow this card not to be played too early. Also, the Cobra effect allows this card to have insane value midgame but still retain it through to the endgame.
And because of it's hand size requirement, you could make a read that your opponent could be holding his hand to be able to drop Kelpie.
It's still OP.
Does Handlock need a 0 mana Vaporize with no secret icon to act as a tell?
I've read all your feedback and received really good and helpful responses! Thank you for the correspondence. I did understood that the card is really strong as it is.
An idea I liked was to decrease its stats upon summoning via its effect. Of course then I could just make it weaker from the beginning. Or give it more viable stats to be played on its own, and also the ability to summon itself when you're attacked, but weakened.
Another balance correction would be to not make it the new target, but the starting idea was something that interferes and protects you when you're attacked. With this in mind, either I keep the health equal to the attack and don't make it the new target, or make the health really small and make it the target.
So my options currently are:
This way it even dies for free against a 2/3.
The point is that you can control when you want to play Noble Sacrifice, but this is out of your control. It triggers automatically when you're attacked, even when you don't need it. You may as well choose to play it as a 4/4.
Keep in mind that I WANT this to be strong and to be a fear, that's why it's legendary afterall.
My custom classes : /// / My Card Factory!
It's not a matter of if Handlock needs this support, but if this is a cool idea for the deck type in general?
I suppose what I should have said is "does the GAME need a deck (Handlock) that can run a 0 mana Vaporize with no secret icon to act as a tell?"
Even if it's only viable in one deck, it's OP.
I updated the card so now it gets -2/-2 upon summon and doesn't become the new target.
My custom classes : /// / My Card Factory!
Even so, it's twice the stats of a wisp for the same cost, plus a pseudo charge.
If I play something on my own turn, the opponent has a full turn to deal with it before it can attack.
Very often, especially on turn 2-3, the opponent will spend their mana before attacking, which will give you a free 2/2 that they no longer have means to deal with that turn. In this case, it's the equivalent of a 2/2 with charge.
Even if the enemy expects this and plays around it, it's a 0 mana 2/2, that becomes a 4/4 if silenced.
There is no possible way to make this balanced via stat changes unless you make it a 0/1 or something, as even a 1/1 would be strictly better than a Wisp.
It needs to have some sort of a drawback a la Millhouse Manastorm or FoN Treants.
I disagree, it is only "free" in cost when summoned because of an attack and it essentially wastes the card because you can't control what triggers it coming out. Attack to face order can be controlled. The drawback is that you don't get to play it for full stats most often. Burning an opponent's card has value and that is the tradeoff.
His change nerfed the stats and also eliminated the "make this the target" portion of the card, so attack order is irrelevant.
Still, I can't see why it's better than Voidcaller, which can get you much stronger minions for free.
My custom classes : /// / My Card Factory!
Yea, I like that idea actually. A 2/2 seems fail and isn't game breaking but, I think maybe making it a 4/4 for 4mana played from hand is a bit too good because it's basically a card without a downside. Or should I say not much of a downside. The standard 4drop is Yeti, so this is a Yeti with 1 less hp if played from hand, yet has the potential to also be a free 2/2.
I think making it a 5mana is more reasonable. So it can be a bit more punishing against control decks. Also this seems like a rare card. Doesn't really fit the profile of a legendary or epic.
Yes, the idea behind increasing its mana cost has a point. I'll consider it.
But it's the type of card that has to be a one-of. You don't want to be afraid of a second one. That's why I made it legendary.
My custom classes : /// / My Card Factory!