Hey everyone, not sure why I'm having some problem lately uploading images on Imgur but i thought I was going to give u an idea of what I was working on for some feedbacks. The majority of the cards works around the Keyword Infect and the 'DOT' concept - similar to warrior bombs but less powerful -. With the legendary I tried to combine the 2 mechanics together.
Pathogen: Black Pox should fulfill the challenge, same for the Sludge Giant.
RELEASE EXP: SAVIOUR OF ULDUM (I thought about The Frozen Throne tbh but with all the plagues featured in SoU i think is a nice fit)
Out of the Normal one, i'm really not sold on the Necropolis, i think it does too many things and i'm also not really happy with the flavour. I think i will change it to something that simply generates Blightburst.
here's where I am at with the rare, still working on a bunch of options.
Ok guys... I think I have a first idea of what my first part could be, I brainstormed a bit (although I have my doubts on some stuff.
First of all, while I don't have a keyword on my own, I have a mechanic I want to keep along this contest. It involves this token:
Main concept is, you can add it to your hand through several means. You can either save it to combo with other cards, or play it if you need more bodies on board asap. The token is destroyed by the synergy cards tho. I also wanted to start toying with cards that work around the other main stuff of the class, with buffs, end of turns, summons, ressurrections and deathrattles on top of the table.
By the way, I have my doubts on which one of these cards below is a better design.
On the epic card challenge... I don't know if I am taking it too literal, it's fine as it is, I should tweak its balance or I should probably rework the concept. In this case I'm replicating the upgrading spellstones from KaC (in this version, I would be releasing my class in Witchwood).
The legendary is based on one of Sylvanas nine val'kyrs (before that time they got armor from the Maw). I wanted this one to be both real lore character and a spirit. Might need some twweaking, but I wanted one that really helps establish an unique playstyle.
I guess you are adding more Blightburst cards out there, right? I mean... I kind of like how the class looks, not all cards, but balance wise they seem good (Looming Necropolis could use a buff tho). That said, you really have to tweak Bane of Stradama... so the Slimed! token card is not affected by itself. Else you will essentially win by playing this on turn 3 because the cost of removing this card will be 6.
Thinking of it... the problem is worse than I thought, because you can double cast this spell at turn 6 and eat a whole opponent turn and half the enxt one clearing both Slimes... perhaps the numbers have to be altered here.
Concept is very good, but hearthstone UI does not do a very good job of this. You don't have a good indication of whether you are on an odd or even turn. Yes, there is a yellow highlight, but what if you have both tick and tock?
Like I said, I'm not sure design is about coming up with these UI solutions but I think I laid out some possible solutions. Blue and red highlights ? Idk it's definitely something new and weird but I think it's worth the complexity.
It totally is about coming up with UI solutions. If you can't signpost it effectively and intuitively in the UI it's not a viable design. The player experiences the game at the UI level in the end. Ui/UX/XD designers are there to make it even better, but many designs have broken by giving them unsolvable problems. I'm not saying this problem is one of those unsolvable designs, but it's definitley a massive part of the discussion - particularly on a game like hearthstone that prizes strong UX.
If it was me, I'd be using "if you have an odd number of mana crystals" instead of "it's an odd turn" because that's easy to count. Alternatively I'd consider having the cards transform like witchwood worgen cards if I wanted to go the "every other turn I change what I do" angle. I think the worgen are unnecessarily complex in a frustrating way but the theme is on point for alternate timelines.
For a mechanic like tick/tock I'd expect it to trigger at the start or end of a turn. It's very timey and has a rhythm to is. Tick/Tock isn't a modal thing, it's a pendulum swinging back and forth. For example, Tick could happen at the end of your turn, and tock at the end of your opponent's turn. I don't particularly love the mechanic but it'd be a clear execution on the theme, and I could imagine a pendulum swinging FX over the game board.
I know this is a little all over the place, but I hope there's something good underneath it all. I also hope I've managed to fulfil the challenges. But if not, I'll remedy however needed.
The fact you know that these designs are a little unfocused and perhaps overcomplex is a really good sign. I would rework the designs until you feel that they are focused, thematic, and make sense at a glance. Try to stay to under 12 words of text per card as well (on average).
I think your current challenge is that you're focusing so much on trying to make the mechanical ideas work that you're losing the theme. Executing on high fantasy themes in elegant mechanics that create new strategic incentives for players is the core of Hearthstone design. It's very easy to get lost down a rabbithole of "make interesting mechanic work", when it's often better to pursue a cool theme and then find elegant, satisfying ways to deliver on that mechanically.
Armor (the player version) on minions will not work. It is fundamentally a more complex version of granting the unit bonus health and offers little design space. The theme of upgrading minions with gear and building fortifications or forging armor/weapons can totally work. Just not this literally.
Once you have your theme, a good idea is to start on fertile ground. Find a legendary creature or mechanic (whether from HS or from another game) that you enjoy playing with and fits the theme perfectly. Figure out why it's fun to play with, then do your own take on it (possibly changing the mechanics, possibly just retheming).
Here's an example off the top of my head, let's say I'm working on an Inventor class - based around the fantasy of building crazy inventions. What fertile ground is there for this? What cards or mechanics are cool and have a similar flavor? Kazakus is a popular card. It's fun to make your own spells. Deathstalker Rexar is fun, building custom zombeasts is great. It's fertile ground for a mechanic and it's all about making stuff.
Here's a mechanic:
Innovate: Invent a crazy contraption!
Because this isn't a legend, we need to simplify a bit. Whenever you invent something, you get two choices in a row. Each will have only two options (like druid choose ones, not like discover or adapt choose 3). We're doing two options instead of three because you're going to make two choices in a row on multiple cards per game and we want to simplify this by comparison to a mechanic like discover or adapt.
The first choice will be a base minion or weapon themed after steampunk-like creations. The second choice will be something that modifies that minion or weapon (the way adapt modifies minions in journey to ungoro, but with significant added design space because the cards are created in hand rather than iadaptations happening in play, meaning we can do stuff like battlecries and cost adjustments). The weapon pool of modifications would likely be a bit different than the minion pool. I don't want to do spells, though it's possible we could, because spells are harder to meaningfully modify than minions or weapons because they have stats and board interactions (bear in mind that Innovate would be designed to be giving you overpowered cards, which you pay for up-front by playing overcosted inventors and invention spells).
Example Innovate Cards: (2) Brilliant Idea. Spell. Innovate (4) Overachiever. 3/5. Overkill: Eureka! (5) The Wrong Brothers. Legendary. 0/5. Stealth. At the start of your turn, Innovate.
Example First Choice: A) (0) Alarm System. 0/3. Deathrattle: Summon a 2/3 mech with taunt. B) (3) Blitzomatic. 4/2. Rush.
Example Second Choice: A) Overclocked System: +3/+0 and Rush. Destroy this minion at the end of the turn. B) Mass Production. Double this card's cost. Battlecry: Summon a copy of this minion.
I started this design about 30 minutes ago and got here. Basing things off the solid invention flavor and playing with proven mechanics (adding external cards to hand, making choices, customizing effects) that fit the flavor well in a new way is a pretty strong foundation. I'd definitely explore this mechanic more in the future, I wish something like this had been done with Boomsday project. Magnetic was cool but this feels more inventory.
I guess you are adding more Blightburst cards out there, right? I mean... I kind of like how the class looks, not all cards, but balance wise they seem good (Looming Necropolis could use a buff tho). That said, you really have to tweak Bane of Stradama... so the Slimed! token card is not affected by itself. Else you will essentially win by playing this on turn 3 because the cost of removing this card will be 6.
Thinking of it... the problem is worse than I thought, because you can double cast this spell at turn 6 and eat a whole opponent turn and half the enxt one clearing both Slimes... perhaps the numbers have to be altered here.
Yes i am, I'm gong to add more on the remaining cards.
I see where you coming from with Bane of Stradama, I might downgrade it to 2 or even 1 and add at the end of the token (except this card)
Hey everyone, not sure why I'm having some problem lately uploading images on Imgur but i thought I was going to give u an idea of what I was working on for some feedbacks. The majority of the cards works around the Keyword Infect and the 'DOT' concept - similar to warrior bombs but less powerful -. With the legendary I tried to combine the 2 mechanics together.
Pathogen: Black Pox should fulfill the challenge, same for the Sludge Giant.
RELEASE EXP: SAVIOUR OF ULDUM (I thought about The Frozen Throne tbh but with all the plagues featured in SoU i think is a nice fit)
Out of the Normal one, i'm really not sold on the Necropolis, i think it does too many things and i'm also not really happy with the flavour. I think i will change it to something that simply generates Blightburst.
here's where I am at with the rare, still working on a bunch of options.
TOKEN
Thoughts? :)
Infecting minions is neat in theory but minions almost never stick around in hearthstone. You need to explore a more satisfying and gratifying quick payoff. Perhaps infected minions have "deathrattle: your opponent summons a 1/1 skeleton" or "deathrattle: shuffle this minion into your opponent's deck. It has +3/+3 and is Undead." or "at the end of your turn, destroy this minion and create an undead copy of it to your opponent's hand".
Alternatively, you could do something like wither in MTG (damage that also weakens their power), shuffle infection cards into the opponent's deck (like 0 mana 'casts when drawn' cards that deal 1 damage to them or summon a skeleton for you), or potentially keep infection rather weak but have many more cards that say things like:
a. Summon a random dead, infected enemy. b. Has the keywords of all dead, infected enemies. c. Gain control of an infected minion. d. Shuffle all dead, infected enemeis into your deck. They have +10/+10. e. Battlecry: Gain +4 Health if an enemy minion is infected.
EDIT - Also, if you do that slimed card you need to ensure the slime costs more to clear than it increases the cost of each card to do so. I'd so something like 2 to clear the slime, but only increase the costs by 1. I'd also definitely make that part of a legendary battlecry if I was going to do that; not a common.
Yes I'm thinking on wether I should improve the Keywords or not. Considering I got the Blightburst token I was actually thinking to change it and review some cards to something like this :
OUTBREAK Do something if your opponent’s deck contains more than 1 Blightburst
or
INFECTED (X)
At the end of your turn shuffle (x) Blightburst into your opponent’s deck
Interesting ideas. I'm reminded of the game Pandemic, which has unexpected and terrifying "epidemic" cards pop up that make things unpredictably terrible.
I think a full "shuffle painful cards into your opponents' deck that cast when drawn" Is probably a bit too narrow for a core class mechanic. It's been a fun deck to play before (bomb warrior is an example) but it'd be a lot of slow draw steps if you shuffle in a lot of those things regularly. On the other hand, if the keyword requires your opponent already having blightbursts shuffled in then that's really narrow (you always need a bunch of blightburst enablers unless all the cards shuffle one in OR do the payoff, but that means you never want your opponent to draw the blightburst which feels weird thematically).
So, probably too narrow for a keyword either way but definitely a fun archetype within the class to put poison cards in your opponent's deck and make them suffer. ;)
Alright, I think I have come up with somewhat managable part of the set and I would like to hear some thoughs about it.
Set Name - Wingmate / or simply Recruit?
Class introduced in: Descent of Dragons (First time that the theme of Gryphon riders were somewhat explored in Hunter and with all the flying dragons I felt it would work the best.)
This part of a set is maybe a little bit too much Gryphon Rider theme centric, but I follower in the footsteps of DH, which fully explored core Demon Hunter before moving on to Acrobats and Quilboars.
A quick recaps of a Hero, HP and Keyword in a Spoiler.
Legendary:
OR
Hargen Bronzewingis more of a token/rush deck payoff card with perhaps a too big restriction for a Initiate styled set, while Gryphon MasterTalonaxe provides a win-condition/burst damage similar to Grommash Hellscream/Cenarius.
Epics
OR
Weaponmaker fulfills the chalenge and I quite like it with the Sky'ree Weapon arsenal, so he probably stays.
Rallying Whistle/Hammer is mainly meant as a card for more control oriented decks as an access to survival with the class lack of healing options. Not sure which one is better, or perhaps it should loose Durability on a different occasion?
Rares
OR
OR
Rally the Newblood - a fast token playstyle reward, balanced Mark of the Lotus.
Klipce (sorry I skipped it last time, overlooked your post) - Gnome Watchmaker, Chronobreak are good.
Midnight Rager could may gain Health instead, seems like a terrible card.
Growing Menace could maybe scale a little bit faster, but it is probably balanced.
The Discard cards seem decent, just not too sure what is the flavor of card discarding.
Lara and Time Trap are on the more powerful edge, but Kairoz probably summons only once and then dies to aoe, and presents a Win Condition for the class, while Time Trap is comparable to Twisting Nether, so probably both are good. I do not like Rush Back In as it has no counterplay and you for example play Malygos / Kairoz. And then summon them again guaranteed for just (4) Mana.
Laurendor
Most issues were already mentioned by others, the main one is the Cost of Slimed! token. The Necropolis does not feel right and I do not like the shuffle mechanic in the first set (but that can be just me). A balanced Bane of Stradama seems good and fitting, Plaguefall kitten work while it can be buffed by a stat. Plaguewood Corruptor is on the other hand overstatted (6/6 for 5), I like both epics.
MvonTzeskagrad
Thanks for the feedback.
You have only two Spirit Remnant generators I think one more could be added (it could probably be in the second part, though). The Tomb Revenant is a nice payoff card, while the 4-Cost Spark of Heroism could be scary if you have multiple way to generate the token. Depends on the setup Requirements. The first Spellstone misses a Shadow Tribe and could potencionaly start stronger you have to upgrade it to get to a Blessing of Kings, Maybe 3/3 5/5 7/7 would also work? Sacred Warden work well with Token playstyle, and Spirit Golem presents us with a value control card and potentionaly a win condition that work well with the class legendary. Spiritist is an interesting card, but there is not much else to support (havem't looked up your basic set) altough it is still a 4/5 that gives +2/+2 to a random friendly minion as a Deathrattle, which is perhaps too strong (as it could even be upgraded). I do not understand if unfinished business summon a 3/3 token, or a 3/3 version of the same minion.
Alright, I think I have come up with somewhat managable part of the set and I would like to hear some thoughs about it.
Set Name - Wingmate / or simply Recruit?
Class introduced in: Descent of Dragons (First time that the theme of Gryphon riders were somewhat explored in Hunter and with all the flying dragons I felt it would work the best.)
This part of a set is maybe a little bit too much Gryphon Rider theme centric, but I follower in the footsteps of DH, which fully explored core Demon Hunter before moving on to Acrobats and Quilboars.
NOTE: I know I am missing one common, I am just not too sure about it yet.
A quick recaps of a Hero, HP and Keyword in a Spoiler.
Legendary:
OR
Hargen Bronzewingis more of a token/rush deck payoff card with perhaps a too big restriction for a Initiate styled set, while Gryphon MasterTalonaxe provides a win-condition/burst damage similar to Grommash Hellscream/Cenarius.
Epics
OR
Weaponmaker fulfills the chalenge and I quite like it with the Sky'ree Weapon arsenal, so he probably stays.
Rallying Whistle/Hammer is mainly meant as a card for more control oriented decks as an access to survival with the class lack of healing options. Not sure which one is better, or perhaps it should loose Durability on a different occasion?
Rares
OR
OR
Rally the Newblood - a fast token playstyle reward, balanced Mark of the Lotus.
Klipce (sorry I skipped it last time, overlooked your post) - Gnome Watchmaker, Chronobreak are good.
Midnight Rager could may gain Health instead, seems like a terrible card.
Growing Menace could maybe scale a little bit faster, but it is probably balanced.
The Discard cards seem decent, just not too sure what is the flavor of card discarding.
Lara and Time Trap are on the more powerful edge, but Kairoz probably summons only once and then dies to aoe, and presents a Win Condition for the class, while Time Trap is comparable to Twisting Nether, so probably both are good. I do not like Rush Back In as it has no counterplay and you for example play Malygos / Kairoz. And then summon them again guaranteed for just (4) Mana.
Laurendor
Most issues were already mentioned by others, the main one is the Cost of Slimed! token. The Necropolis does not feel right and I do not like the shuffle mechanic in the first set (but that can be just me). A balanced Bane of Stradama seems good and fitting, Plaguefall kitten work while it can be buffed by a stat. Plaguewood Corruptor is on the other hand overstatted (6/6 for 5), I like both epics.
MvonTzeskagrad
Thanks for the feedback.
You have only two Spirit Remnant generators I think one more could be added (it could probably be in the second part, though). The Tomb Revenant is a nice payoff card, while the 4-Cost Spark of Heroism could be scary if you have multiple way to generate the token. Depends on the setup Requirements. The first Spellstone misses a Shadow Tribe and could potencionaly start stronger you have to upgrade it to get to a Blessing of Kings, Maybe 3/3 5/5 7/7 would also work? Sacred Warden work well with Token playstyle, and Spirit Golem presents us with a value control card and potentionaly a win condition that work well with the class legendary. Spiritist is an interesting card, but there is not much else to support (havem't looked up your basic set) altough it is still a 4/5 that gives +2/+2 to a random friendly minion as a Deathrattle, which is perhaps too strong (as it could even be upgraded). I do not understand if unfinished business summon a 3/3 token, or a 3/3 version of the same minion.
Hello again! Let's start with saying thanks for your comments, I really appreciate them.
Your class is kinda growing on me, usually working since the basic set around a specific token gets tiring soon (believe me, I tried), but I do see myself trying this one (also helps that I freaking love dwarves, tbh).
On the legendaries, not sure about any of both, but considering you have to start showcasing your keyword, I'd advise Talonaxe is better. Also, opens space to some combo or powerplay with some 4-5 mana rush or a bunch of smaller ones. I like Rallying Hammer better, I could think of giving it 2/3 to open more space to either use Sky'ree more aggressively and also actually attack stuff with the hammer, kind of like Coghammer. I see you have some hardships deciding on your draw engine. Since each of these works in a different context, I think it depends mostly on your thinking for the card, but personally I like the 2 mana version better, since it's easier to meet and control. On the 10 mana spell I'm split, because objectively first one is clearly stronger, but flavorwise I side more with the second one. I like Legendfed Youngster better, although I am aware having turn 1 this turn 2 hero power is quite strong (that said, still not old Small-Time Buccaneer strong). I'd advise making your other common a good standalone card with formation, since that keyword has the inherent weakness of having to waste at least one formation in order to trigger the others.
And now, addressing comments:
Yes, there will be more token generation and synergy cards later, at least one of each (and the archetype will be kept fresh on further sets), I think you could be on to something with the upgrading (and I may also add some more flavor to it, but wanted to try and see if it was a good guess). On the Spiritist... I may print other versions to try and balance it to make it less a "toss it anywhere" card.
And yes, Unfinished Business ressurrects the minion and sets its stats. I awnted to try this wording as it is shorter, I want to try and avoid 5 lines of text, but if it ain't working I'll look it up. My reasioning behind the card is that Ancestral Spirit does the same but pretty much alwys sumoning something far scarier than a 3/3.
EDIT: Forgot to tell you, but Wingmate is the way, it's as much flavour as one name can give.
Agree with what have been said by others, I think you should have more Spirit Remnant generators. I'm wondering wether Unfinished Business could actually add Spirit Remnant instead of the 3/3 minion on the board. Lesser Obsidian Spellstone should be a +3/+3 to me, as per the Spark of Heroism i prefer the aoe buff more than the random one. Tomb Revenant is cool but i'm not sold on the Rush, not sure if can be used by Reborn would be a nice fit. I'm personally not a fan of the Legendary but i have to say it works really well with the Spirit Golem. I also wanted to congrats with you because your class doesn;t feel "priest" at all and that was my main concearn with the first entry :)
Gryphon Master Talonaxe is 100% my favourite and i like how it works with the keyword. It feels a really introductory legendary to me. Weaponmakes is pretty interesting and i like how it generated the threat without summoning a minion like those cards used to do. I personally prefer the whistle option (0/2), but i think in case you could boost it to 3 durability. I prefer Assault Orchestrator over the clear passage, I think is good on this set to have as many synergy with the keywords as possible. Form the Storm, to me is the first option but i think it should read " Destroy a minion and the minions next to it. Summon an 8/8 Dragon.", saying that it limits the summon as i think is conditioned by the fact that you need at least another minion on the board to generate the token. Legendfed Youngster could be a better option to start an aggressive match.
Also here's my entry
By rules I can't change the keyword so I will have to work with what I got as I presented it in the first round (ah, the rush lol)
Anyway i think i came out with a good set now, I know the Blightburst mechanic could looks weird for an initiate set for some of you but i really want this mechanic to be a key feature of the class moving forward.
Name of the Set: Harvester or Blightweaver ?
Release Expansion: Saviour of Uldum (Because of the Plagues)
I based this set on 3 main themes and strategies: INFECTED Minions - BLIGHTBURST Generators - SYNERGY Between both.
In spoiler Hero,Hero Power and Keyword
OR
Vezkil Slimenozzle - I wanted the legendary of the first set to be a centrepiece of the two mechanics. It might not looks like a threat but I'm hoping to showcase more deck manipulation cards in the future sets and I'm sure this card would come handy. The second version offer some potential OTK to the class.
Sludge Giant is one of the many Giant in Hearthstone and follows the same mechanics and it also fulfil one of the two challenges .
Slime Molding is a card that takes advantage of the Infected minions already destroyed and i thought the Immunity was a nice touch (considering you can discover cheap minions too i don't think so it will be too OP). They both focused on the Infected mechanic.
or
Outbreak should fullfill the challenge, this card simply increase the number of Blightburst by every time a minion is infected. Not too sure about the 0 cost to be honest.
Blight Apostle It does a bit of everything, Infect a minion, shuffle Blightbursts and also has Lifesteal because the main strategy of the Plaguebrnger is to stay alive as long as possible to see the opponent's consumed by the dot into his deck. The second version summon a Plaguefall Kitten from the same set but it requires you to restored health the previous turn. I tend to prefer the second option.
Plaguewood Corrupter Increased the cost of the card to 6, it's pretty sticky and i might drop the stats to 5/5.
OR
OR
Pathogen: Swamp Fever and Forbidden Pathogen are both a continuity with the basic set and the Pathogen theme. Pathogen: Swamp Fever is pretty powerfull as is but it does infect your minions aswell. Not sure how OP this could be considering the Sludge giant. I'm wondering wether the second option would be a better choice. Forbidden Pathogen works as a Blightburst generator and, if the Outbreak doens;t fulfill the challenge, this will do :P
Plaguefall Kitten is the mascot of Plaguefall, I;m super happy with it
Lil'Oozeling is an early game Blightburst generator, nothing special about it. I'm sure about this card but i was also missing a generator for the early game considering how Outbreak and Forbidden Pathogen tends to be more powerfull and usefull in the later game rather than the beginning of it. Maybe I could move it to 3 mana and add either Lifesteal or Rush. Alternative is a spell that accellerate the bonus from Infected
Looking better right now... that said, some of these I have issues.
9 mana on discovering a minion? Make i summon it at least or something, and even then, it's gonna be awfully overcosted most of the time since infect is much better against small minions than big ones.
Outbreak is definitively gonna make it to OTK. Depending on how many different ways are you gonna infect things, it is either ok or broken. Cost, however, is arguably not an issue here.
I think the 3 mana that shuffles Blightbursts is better, mostly because I think it is somewhat weird to have a minion from the vanilla set summoning another minion from the vanilla set.
Second Swamp Fever looks better to me, more simple. Virulent Decay also looks better to me because it showcases more play with your keyword.
Trying to start setting the balance right before release, what do you think of these? Second one would come instead of Unfinished Business, wich I'd still try to implement later, either as the same card, or somewhat different.
@MvonTzeskagrad Unfinished business is really cool. Your class is very stylish and there is something pleasing about watching minions grow bigger and bigger. But is there anything the class does beyond stack buffs? It just seems like a surface level gameplan: play stat efficient minions, then make them even bigger. Notes: Sever Bonds is a strictly better Flame Geyser. I like the first Spark o H more. Restless Dead is allllmost Fire-Fly, but I love the Ungoro expac so its all good haha.
@ksplice One thing to keep in mind with Tick/Tock is the mana cost of cards. You want to play your cards on curve, and it feels bad not to. So whichever effect is off-curve should be at least a little more powerful than the "normal" on curve effect (even if they do wildly different things).
A bit late but still in need of reactions/feedback
The keyword is really simple. What is the most important thing for secret agent? To get the job done. And when it IS done that's a...
(It can only be triggered if the minion with the success attacks itself. Just like overkill) A bunch of cards to showcase this effect:
This cards also go with the weapon theme, big minions theme and positioning removals theme!
To continue the "hero power" theme... (and to fulfill the first challenge). Oh, and they're also semi-success, semi-big cards.
Actually this ^ guy isn't very stealthy. He just calls himself that. Oh well.
More cards for the BIG archetype (and to fulfill the second challenge with the "unidentified-like" card). Release expansion for Agent is Rise of Shadows.
The real token will have the actual battlecry. You will also know about the battlecry beforehand.
And NO it's not a spyglass. It's a club. An observation club. Trust me.
As for legendary... Introducing my sweet boy (or whoever is behind that mask) Keiran! It's this classes's much needed AoE-like card. And draw-like card. And big-minion card. And success card. Can it be even better? Just imagine him appearing on the board with something like "I will make them talk. One way or another." and attacking yelling "SPILL. IT. OUT."
And the rest of the cards. Little opening for Secret theme (it IS a Secret Agent, right?), some flavoury stuff for midrange plays...
Some of these are overly complicated imo. Like how does Vengeful Agent interact with being attacked by a 4/3? Does he not attack? Does he attack and both die? Does he attack and heals, meaning Success triggers no matter if the minion survives or not? Also, it's an 8 mana 6/7 do nothing when you play it, I honestly would buff some stats, give it rush and done (and if so, make it common).
There's something weird about having all these similar looking dudes having such a wild range of stats, many of them on the side of giants, although I won't make a big fuss of that because hearthstone sometimes is that wacky with its minions.
Change of Plans can be reworded as Dr. Morrigan's effect.
I'm not even sure where to begin with Observation Club. But I think you should just make the weapon trigger both battlecries.
Keiran might use a buff to attack.
Spying Tech and Crowd of Onlookers are spot on imo (perhaps the crowd could see some stat tweaks, but the flavor is just perfect).
Vengeful Agent will not attack the 4/3 back and Success won't trigger. It only attacks back something that survived a clash with him. Lowering his attack and giving him Rush sounds good but I want to avoid printing 2 cards with both Rush and Success. Maybe Taunt?
Thank you for the Morrigan reminder. I completely forgot about her!
I might change the Club to "Add a 3/3 Spy with copied Battlecry to your hand"
Ok, and if a Boulderfist Ogre attacks Vengeful Agent, both die? Or Success triggers and Vengeful lives? Taunt looks fine with it (he becomes THAT good at not letting things go), although then definitively needs a boost on stats.
Agree with what have been said by others, I think you should have more Spirit Remnant generators. I'm wondering wether Unfinished Business could actually add Spirit Remnant instead of the 3/3 minion on the board. Lesser Obsidian Spellstone should be a +3/+3 to me, as per the Spark of Heroism i prefer the aoe buff more than the random one. Tomb Revenant is cool but i'm not sold on the Rush, not sure if can be used by Reborn would be a nice fit. I'm personally not a fan of the Legendary but i have to say it works really well with the Spirit Golem. I also wanted to congrats with you because your class doesn;t feel "priest" at all and that was my main concearn with the first entry :)
Gryphon Master Talonaxe is 100% my favourite and i like how it works with the keyword. It feels a really introductory legendary to me. Weaponmakes is pretty interesting and i like how it generated the threat without summoning a minion like those cards used to do. I personally prefer the whistle option (0/2), but i think in case you could boost it to 3 durability. I prefer Assault Orchestrator over the clear passage, I think is good on this set to have as many synergy with the keywords as possible. Form the Storm, to me is the first option but i think it should read " Destroy a minion and the minions next to it. Summon an 8/8 Dragon.", saying that it limits the summon as i think is conditioned by the fact that you need at least another minion on the board to generate the token. Legendfed Youngster could be a better option to start an aggressive match.
Also here's my entry
By rules I can't change the keyword so I will have to work with what I got as I presented it in the first round (ah, the rush lol)
Anyway i think i came out with a good set now, I know the Blightburst mechanic could looks weird for an initiate set for some of you but i really want this mechanic to be a key feature of the class moving forward.
Name of the Set: Harvester or Blightweaver ?
Release Expansion: Saviour of Uldum (Because of the Plagues)
I based this set on 3 main themes and strategies: INFECTED Minions - BLIGHTBURST Generators - SYNERGY Between both.
In spoiler Hero,Hero Power and Keyword
Vezkil Slimenozzle - I wanted the legendary of the first set to be a centrepiece of the two mechanics. It might not looks like a threat but I'm hoping to showcase more deck manipulation cards in the future sets and I'm sure this card would come handy.
Sludge Giant is one of the many Giant in Hearthstone and follows the same mechanics and it also fulfil one of the two challenges .
Slime Molding is a card that takes advantage of the Infected minions already destroyed and i thought the Immunity was a nice touch (considering you can discover cheap minions too i don't think so it will be too OP). They both focused on the Infected mechanic.
or
Outbreak should fullfill the challenge, this card simply increase the number of Blightburst by every time a minion is infected. Not too sure about the 0 cost to be honest.
Blight Apostle It does a bit of everything, Infect a minion, shuffle Blightbursts and also has Lifesteal because the main strategy of the Plaguebrnger is to stay alive as long as possible to see the opponent's consumed by the dot into his deck. The second version summon a Plaguefall Kitten from the same set but it requires you to restored health the previous turn. I tend to prefer the second option.
Plaguewood Corrupter Increased the cost of the card to 6, it's pretty sticky and i might drop the stats to 5/5.
OR
OR
Pathogen: Swamp Fever and Forbidden Pathogen are both a continuity with the basic set and the Pathogen theme. Pathogen: Swamp Fever is pretty powerfull as is but it does infect your minions aswell. Not sure how OP this could be considering the Sludge giant. I'm wondering wether the second option would be a better choice. Forbidden Pathogen works as a Blightburst generator and, if the Outbreak doens;t fulfill the challenge, this will do :P
Plaguefall Kitten is the mascot of Plaguefall, I;m super happy with it
Lil'Oozeling is an early game Blightburst generator, nothing special about it. I'm sure about this card but i was also missing a generator for the early game considering how Outbreak and Forbidden Pathogen tends to be more powerfull and usefull in the later game rather than the beginning of it. Maybe I could move it to 3 mana and add either Lifesteal or Rush. Alternative is a spell that accellerate the bonus from Infected
TOKEN
As always feedbacks are more than welcome :)
You're on a really good track with this rework. I love the idea of a card that shuffles in a ton of plague cards all at once as I build up to the plague. I am confident that it would be extremely frustrating to wait through multiple drawn "take 2 damage cards" a turn though, slows things down, but there's probably a UX solution to make this less frustrating (not certain about this, as the core UI/UX of drawing cards isn't always flexible in cardgames, but I'll assume that it's doable within scope for the sake of the design analysis).
Right now it seems like your main issue is that you have a class filled with delayed payoff mechanics. Infect creates a delayed payoff, blightburst creates a delayed payoff. HS games are often decisively won or lost in 5-7 turns (control mirrors non-withstanding) so that's hard to do. Normally you need to pair delayed gratification like that with heavily defensive archetypes, so they have time to play a very long game, or you create ways to get a payoff early (like a giant that costs 1 less for each blightburst you've created this game, similar to the one that rewards you for infecting minions). I'd also be expecting to see a mass rez of all enemy minions you infected this game, that seems like an easy legendary battlecry to me.
In general, a design where you reward a delayed payoff (infect) with another delayed payoff (shuffle in blightbursts for each time you've infected enemy minons) is somewhat dangerous. I'd definitely think hard about how this plays in practice and how the player is supposed to win with this strategy. The natural solution is bomb warrior's, go heavy control while bombs kill them. More parasitic solutions that speicifcally reward you for simply creating blightbursts even if they haven't been draw yet are possible too.
TLDR: Right now it feels like you've got two cool thematic delayed effects that both represent "poisoning/infecting" in different ways, and they're fighting for attention with one another. I'd pick one and focus in on it, possibly make the other a stand-alone card rather than its own multi-card archetype. Since you're locked to infect already, I'd basically just turn Outbreak into a standalone Epic epic card that can singlehandedly create its own archetype (those are really fun and very valuable for a class, there are many examples of cards like this).
Hey everyone, not sure why I'm having some problem lately uploading images on Imgur but i thought I was going to give u an idea of what I was working on for some feedbacks. The majority of the cards works around the Keyword Infect and the 'DOT' concept - similar to warrior bombs but less powerful -. With the legendary I tried to combine the 2 mechanics together.
Pathogen: Black Pox should fulfill the challenge, same for the Sludge Giant.
RELEASE EXP: SAVIOUR OF ULDUM (I thought about The Frozen Throne tbh but with all the plagues featured in SoU i think is a nice fit)
Out of the Normal one, i'm really not sold on the Necropolis, i think it does too many things and i'm also not really happy with the flavour. I think i will change it to something that simply generates Blightburst.
here's where I am at with the rare, still working on a bunch of options.
TOKEN
Thoughts? :)
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Ok guys... I think I have a first idea of what my first part could be, I brainstormed a bit (although I have my doubts on some stuff.
First of all, while I don't have a keyword on my own, I have a mechanic I want to keep along this contest. It involves this token:
Main concept is, you can add it to your hand through several means. You can either save it to combo with other cards, or play it if you need more bodies on board asap. The token is destroyed by the synergy cards tho. I also wanted to start toying with cards that work around the other main stuff of the class, with buffs, end of turns, summons, ressurrections and deathrattles on top of the table.
By the way, I have my doubts on which one of these cards below is a better design.
On the epic card challenge... I don't know if I am taking it too literal, it's fine as it is, I should tweak its balance or I should probably rework the concept. In this case I'm replicating the upgrading spellstones from KaC (in this version, I would be releasing my class in Witchwood).
The legendary is based on one of Sylvanas nine val'kyrs (before that time they got armor from the Maw). I wanted this one to be both real lore character and a spirit. Might need some twweaking, but I wanted one that really helps establish an unique playstyle.
Edit: Forgot to add it.
Click to see my Hearthstone projects:
@Laurendor
I guess you are adding more Blightburst cards out there, right? I mean... I kind of like how the class looks, not all cards, but balance wise they seem good (Looming Necropolis could use a buff tho). That said, you really have to tweak Bane of Stradama... so the Slimed! token card is not affected by itself. Else you will essentially win by playing this on turn 3 because the cost of removing this card will be 6.
Thinking of it... the problem is worse than I thought, because you can double cast this spell at turn 6 and eat a whole opponent turn and half the enxt one clearing both Slimes... perhaps the numbers have to be altered here.
Click to see my Hearthstone projects:
It totally is about coming up with UI solutions. If you can't signpost it effectively and intuitively in the UI it's not a viable design. The player experiences the game at the UI level in the end. Ui/UX/XD designers are there to make it even better, but many designs have broken by giving them unsolvable problems. I'm not saying this problem is one of those unsolvable designs, but it's definitley a massive part of the discussion - particularly on a game like hearthstone that prizes strong UX.
If it was me, I'd be using "if you have an odd number of mana crystals" instead of "it's an odd turn" because that's easy to count. Alternatively I'd consider having the cards transform like witchwood worgen cards if I wanted to go the "every other turn I change what I do" angle. I think the worgen are unnecessarily complex in a frustrating way but the theme is on point for alternate timelines.
For a mechanic like tick/tock I'd expect it to trigger at the start or end of a turn. It's very timey and has a rhythm to is. Tick/Tock isn't a modal thing, it's a pendulum swinging back and forth. For example, Tick could happen at the end of your turn, and tock at the end of your opponent's turn. I don't particularly love the mechanic but it'd be a clear execution on the theme, and I could imagine a pendulum swinging FX over the game board.
The fact you know that these designs are a little unfocused and perhaps overcomplex is a really good sign. I would rework the designs until you feel that they are focused, thematic, and make sense at a glance. Try to stay to under 12 words of text per card as well (on average).
I think your current challenge is that you're focusing so much on trying to make the mechanical ideas work that you're losing the theme. Executing on high fantasy themes in elegant mechanics that create new strategic incentives for players is the core of Hearthstone design. It's very easy to get lost down a rabbithole of "make interesting mechanic work", when it's often better to pursue a cool theme and then find elegant, satisfying ways to deliver on that mechanically.
Armor (the player version) on minions will not work. It is fundamentally a more complex version of granting the unit bonus health and offers little design space. The theme of upgrading minions with gear and building fortifications or forging armor/weapons can totally work. Just not this literally.
Once you have your theme, a good idea is to start on fertile ground. Find a legendary creature or mechanic (whether from HS or from another game) that you enjoy playing with and fits the theme perfectly. Figure out why it's fun to play with, then do your own take on it (possibly changing the mechanics, possibly just retheming).
Here's an example off the top of my head, let's say I'm working on an Inventor class - based around the fantasy of building crazy inventions. What fertile ground is there for this? What cards or mechanics are cool and have a similar flavor? Kazakus is a popular card. It's fun to make your own spells. Deathstalker Rexar is fun, building custom zombeasts is great. It's fertile ground for a mechanic and it's all about making stuff.
Here's a mechanic:
Innovate: Invent a crazy contraption!
Because this isn't a legend, we need to simplify a bit. Whenever you invent something, you get two choices in a row. Each will have only two options (like druid choose ones, not like discover or adapt choose 3). We're doing two options instead of three because you're going to make two choices in a row on multiple cards per game and we want to simplify this by comparison to a mechanic like discover or adapt.
The first choice will be a base minion or weapon themed after steampunk-like creations. The second choice will be something that modifies that minion or weapon (the way adapt modifies minions in journey to ungoro, but with significant added design space because the cards are created in hand rather than iadaptations happening in play, meaning we can do stuff like battlecries and cost adjustments). The weapon pool of modifications would likely be a bit different than the minion pool. I don't want to do spells, though it's possible we could, because spells are harder to meaningfully modify than minions or weapons because they have stats and board interactions (bear in mind that Innovate would be designed to be giving you overpowered cards, which you pay for up-front by playing overcosted inventors and invention spells).
Example Innovate Cards:
(2) Brilliant Idea. Spell. Innovate
(4) Overachiever. 3/5. Overkill: Eureka!
(5) The Wrong Brothers. Legendary. 0/5. Stealth. At the start of your turn, Innovate.
Example First Choice:
A) (0) Alarm System. 0/3. Deathrattle: Summon a 2/3 mech with taunt.
B) (3) Blitzomatic. 4/2. Rush.
Example Second Choice:
A) Overclocked System: +3/+0 and Rush. Destroy this minion at the end of the turn.
B) Mass Production. Double this card's cost. Battlecry: Summon a copy of this minion.
I started this design about 30 minutes ago and got here. Basing things off the solid invention flavor and playing with proven mechanics (adding external cards to hand, making choices, customizing effects) that fit the flavor well in a new way is a pretty strong foundation. I'd definitely explore this mechanic more in the future, I wish something like this had been done with Boomsday project. Magnetic was cool but this feels more inventory.
Yes i am, I'm gong to add more on the remaining cards.
I see where you coming from with Bane of Stradama, I might downgrade it to 2 or even 1 and add at the end of the token (except this card)
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Infecting minions is neat in theory but minions almost never stick around in hearthstone. You need to explore a more satisfying and gratifying quick payoff. Perhaps infected minions have "deathrattle: your opponent summons a 1/1 skeleton" or "deathrattle: shuffle this minion into your opponent's deck. It has +3/+3 and is Undead." or "at the end of your turn, destroy this minion and create an undead copy of it to your opponent's hand".
Alternatively, you could do something like wither in MTG (damage that also weakens their power), shuffle infection cards into the opponent's deck (like 0 mana 'casts when drawn' cards that deal 1 damage to them or summon a skeleton for you), or potentially keep infection rather weak but have many more cards that say things like:
a. Summon a random dead, infected enemy.
b. Has the keywords of all dead, infected enemies.
c. Gain control of an infected minion.
d. Shuffle all dead, infected enemeis into your deck. They have +10/+10.
e. Battlecry: Gain +4 Health if an enemy minion is infected.
EDIT - Also, if you do that slimed card you need to ensure the slime costs more to clear than it increases the cost of each card to do so. I'd so something like 2 to clear the slime, but only increase the costs by 1. I'd also definitely make that part of a legendary battlecry if I was going to do that; not a common.
Do something if your opponent’s deck contains more than 1 Blightburst
INFECTED (X)
At the end of your turn shuffle (x) Blightburst into your opponent’s deck
any preference?
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Interesting ideas. I'm reminded of the game Pandemic, which has unexpected and terrifying "epidemic" cards pop up that make things unpredictably terrible.
I think a full "shuffle painful cards into your opponents' deck that cast when drawn" Is probably a bit too narrow for a core class mechanic. It's been a fun deck to play before (bomb warrior is an example) but it'd be a lot of slow draw steps if you shuffle in a lot of those things regularly. On the other hand, if the keyword requires your opponent already having blightbursts shuffled in then that's really narrow (you always need a bunch of blightburst enablers unless all the cards shuffle one in OR do the payoff, but that means you never want your opponent to draw the blightburst which feels weird thematically).
So, probably too narrow for a keyword either way but definitely a fun archetype within the class to put poison cards in your opponent's deck and make them suffer. ;)
Alright, I think I have come up with somewhat managable part of the set and I would like to hear some thoughs about it.
Set Name - Wingmate / or simply Recruit?
Class introduced in: Descent of Dragons (First time that the theme of Gryphon riders were somewhat explored in Hunter and with all the flying dragons I felt it would work the best.)
This part of a set is maybe a little bit too much Gryphon Rider theme centric, but I follower in the footsteps of DH, which fully explored core Demon Hunter before moving on to Acrobats and Quilboars.
A quick recaps of a Hero, HP and Keyword in a Spoiler.
Legendary:
OR
Hargen Bronzewing is more of a token/rush deck payoff card with perhaps a too big restriction for a Initiate styled set, while Gryphon Master Talonaxe provides a win-condition/burst damage similar to Grommash Hellscream/Cenarius.
Epics
OR
Weaponmaker fulfills the chalenge and I quite like it with the Sky'ree Weapon arsenal, so he probably stays.
Rallying Whistle/Hammer is mainly meant as a card for more control oriented decks as an access to survival with the class lack of healing options. Not sure which one is better, or perhaps it should loose Durability on a different occasion?
Rares
OR
OR
Rally the Newblood - a fast token playstyle reward, balanced Mark of the Lotus.
Clear(ed) Passage / Assault Orchestrator - Card draw engine.
Form the Storm - A lategame slow bomb for a control based deck and a fulfilment of a second challenge.
Commons
OR
Fastride Lasso - Good weapon, work with Sky'ree and Weaponmaker, I'd like to keep.
Gryphon Rider - Basic card that work with Rush Formation and also makes room for future Windfury support.
New Generation - Token generator for token support cards.
Legendfed Youngster / Seasoned Comrade - Final initiate Sky'ree payoff card, an aggresive and deffensive version.
Intended strategies for the set and where most cards should find their place:
Token Deck Strategy - Hargen Bronzewing, Gryphon Master Talonaxe, Rally the Newblood, Cleared Passage / Assault Orchestrator, Gryphon Rider, Legendfed Youngster, New Generation
Rush Formation Deck Strategy - Hargen Bronzewing, Gryphon Master Talonaxe, Weaponmaker, Cleared Passage / Assault Orchestrator, Fastride Lasso, Gryphon Rider
Control/Lategame Deck Strategy - Gryphon Master Talonaxe, Rallying Whistle/Hammer, Clear Passage, Form the Storm, Fastride Lasso, Gryphon Rider, Seasoned Comrade
Dedicated Sky'ree Deck Strategy - Weaponmaker, Rallying Whistle/Hammer, Fastride Lasso, Legendfed Youngster / Seasoned Comrade
And some feedback -
Klipce (sorry I skipped it last time, overlooked your post) - Gnome Watchmaker, Chronobreak are good.
Midnight Rager could may gain Health instead, seems like a terrible card.
Growing Menace could maybe scale a little bit faster, but it is probably balanced.
The Discard cards seem decent, just not too sure what is the flavor of card discarding.
Lara and Time Trap are on the more powerful edge, but Kairoz probably summons only once and then dies to aoe, and presents a Win Condition for the class, while Time Trap is comparable to Twisting Nether, so probably both are good. I do not like Rush Back In as it has no counterplay and you for example play Malygos / Kairoz. And then summon them again guaranteed for just (4) Mana.
Laurendor
Most issues were already mentioned by others, the main one is the Cost of Slimed! token. The Necropolis does not feel right and I do not like the shuffle mechanic in the first set (but that can be just me). A balanced Bane of Stradama seems good and fitting, Plaguefall kitten work while it can be buffed by a stat. Plaguewood Corruptor is on the other hand overstatted (6/6 for 5), I like both epics.
MvonTzeskagrad
Thanks for the feedback.
You have only two Spirit Remnant generators I think one more could be added (it could probably be in the second part, though). The Tomb Revenant is a nice payoff card, while the 4-Cost Spark of Heroism could be scary if you have multiple way to generate the token. Depends on the setup Requirements. The first Spellstone misses a Shadow Tribe and could potencionaly start stronger you have to upgrade it to get to a Blessing of Kings, Maybe 3/3 5/5 7/7 would also work? Sacred Warden work well with Token playstyle, and Spirit Golem presents us with a value control card and potentionaly a win condition that work well with the class legendary. Spiritist is an interesting card, but there is not much else to support (havem't looked up your basic set) altough it is still a 4/5 that gives +2/+2 to a random friendly minion as a Deathrattle, which is perhaps too strong (as it could even be upgraded). I do not understand if unfinished business summon a 3/3 token, or a 3/3 version of the same minion.
Hello again! Let's start with saying thanks for your comments, I really appreciate them.
Your class is kinda growing on me, usually working since the basic set around a specific token gets tiring soon (believe me, I tried), but I do see myself trying this one (also helps that I freaking love dwarves, tbh).
On the legendaries, not sure about any of both, but considering you have to start showcasing your keyword, I'd advise Talonaxe is better. Also, opens space to some combo or powerplay with some 4-5 mana rush or a bunch of smaller ones. I like Rallying Hammer better, I could think of giving it 2/3 to open more space to either use Sky'ree more aggressively and also actually attack stuff with the hammer, kind of like Coghammer. I see you have some hardships deciding on your draw engine. Since each of these works in a different context, I think it depends mostly on your thinking for the card, but personally I like the 2 mana version better, since it's easier to meet and control. On the 10 mana spell I'm split, because objectively first one is clearly stronger, but flavorwise I side more with the second one. I like Legendfed Youngster better, although I am aware having turn 1 this turn 2 hero power is quite strong (that said, still not old Small-Time Buccaneer strong). I'd advise making your other common a good standalone card with formation, since that keyword has the inherent weakness of having to waste at least one formation in order to trigger the others.
And now, addressing comments:
Yes, there will be more token generation and synergy cards later, at least one of each (and the archetype will be kept fresh on further sets), I think you could be on to something with the upgrading (and I may also add some more flavor to it, but wanted to try and see if it was a good guess). On the Spiritist... I may print other versions to try and balance it to make it less a "toss it anywhere" card.
And yes, Unfinished Business ressurrects the minion and sets its stats. I awnted to try this wording as it is shorter, I want to try and avoid 5 lines of text, but if it ain't working I'll look it up. My reasioning behind the card is that Ancestral Spirit does the same but pretty much alwys sumoning something far scarier than a 3/3.
EDIT: Forgot to tell you, but Wingmate is the way, it's as much flavour as one name can give.
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@MvonTzeskagrad
Agree with what have been said by others, I think you should have more Spirit Remnant generators. I'm wondering wether Unfinished Business could actually add Spirit Remnant instead of the 3/3 minion on the board. Lesser Obsidian Spellstone should be a +3/+3 to me, as per the Spark of Heroism i prefer the aoe buff more than the random one. Tomb Revenant is cool but i'm not sold on the Rush, not sure if can be used by Reborn would be a nice fit. I'm personally not a fan of the Legendary but i have to say it works really well with the Spirit Golem. I also wanted to congrats with you because your class doesn;t feel "priest" at all and that was my main concearn with the first entry :)
@Ardin427
Gryphon Master Talonaxe is 100% my favourite and i like how it works with the keyword. It feels a really introductory legendary to me. Weaponmakes is pretty interesting and i like how it generated the threat without summoning a minion like those cards used to do. I personally prefer the whistle option (0/2), but i think in case you could boost it to 3 durability. I prefer Assault Orchestrator over the clear passage, I think is good on this set to have as many synergy with the keywords as possible. Form the Storm, to me is the first option but i think it should read " Destroy a minion and the minions next to it. Summon an 8/8 Dragon.", saying that it limits the summon as i think is conditioned by the fact that you need at least another minion on the board to generate the token. Legendfed Youngster could be a better option to start an aggressive match.
Also here's my entry
By rules I can't change the keyword so I will have to work with what I got as I presented it in the first round (ah, the rush lol)
Anyway i think i came out with a good set now, I know the Blightburst mechanic could looks weird for an initiate set for some of you but i really want this mechanic to be a key feature of the class moving forward.
Name of the Set: Harvester or Blightweaver ?
Release Expansion: Saviour of Uldum (Because of the Plagues)
I based this set on 3 main themes and strategies: INFECTED Minions - BLIGHTBURST Generators - SYNERGY Between both.
In spoiler Hero,Hero Power and Keyword
OR
Vezkil Slimenozzle - I wanted the legendary of the first set to be a centrepiece of the two mechanics. It might not looks like a threat but I'm hoping to showcase more deck manipulation cards in the future sets and I'm sure this card would come handy. The second version offer some potential OTK to the class.
Sludge Giant is one of the many Giant in Hearthstone and follows the same mechanics and it also fulfil one of the two challenges .
Slime Molding is a card that takes advantage of the Infected minions already destroyed and i thought the Immunity was a nice touch (considering you can discover cheap minions too i don't think so it will be too OP). They both focused on the Infected mechanic.
or
Outbreak should fullfill the challenge, this card simply increase the number of Blightburst by every time a minion is infected. Not too sure about the 0 cost to be honest.
Blight Apostle It does a bit of everything, Infect a minion, shuffle Blightbursts and also has Lifesteal because the main strategy of the Plaguebrnger is to stay alive as long as possible to see the opponent's consumed by the dot into his deck. The second version summon a Plaguefall Kitten from the same set but it requires you to restored health the previous turn. I tend to prefer the second option.
Plaguewood Corrupter Increased the cost of the card to 6, it's pretty sticky and i might drop the stats to 5/5.
OR
OR
Pathogen: Swamp Fever and Forbidden Pathogen are both a continuity with the basic set and the Pathogen theme. Pathogen: Swamp Fever is pretty powerfull as is but it does infect your minions aswell. Not sure how OP this could be considering the Sludge giant. I'm wondering wether the second option would be a better choice. Forbidden Pathogen works as a Blightburst generator and, if the Outbreak doens;t fulfill the challenge, this will do :P
Plaguefall Kitten is the mascot of Plaguefall, I;m super happy with it
Lil'Oozeling is an early game Blightburst generator, nothing special about it. I'm sure about this card but i was also missing a generator for the early game considering how Outbreak and Forbidden Pathogen tends to be more powerfull and usefull in the later game rather than the beginning of it. Maybe I could move it to 3 mana and add either Lifesteal or Rush. Alternative is a spell that accellerate the bonus from Infected
TOKEN
As always feedbacks are more than welcome :)
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@Laurendor
Looking better right now... that said, some of these I have issues.
9 mana on discovering a minion? Make i summon it at least or something, and even then, it's gonna be awfully overcosted most of the time since infect is much better against small minions than big ones.
Outbreak is definitively gonna make it to OTK. Depending on how many different ways are you gonna infect things, it is either ok or broken. Cost, however, is arguably not an issue here.
I think the 3 mana that shuffles Blightbursts is better, mostly because I think it is somewhat weird to have a minion from the vanilla set summoning another minion from the vanilla set.
Second Swamp Fever looks better to me, more simple. Virulent Decay also looks better to me because it showcases more play with your keyword.
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Trying to start setting the balance right before release, what do you think of these? Second one would come instead of Unfinished Business, wich I'd still try to implement later, either as the same card, or somewhat different.
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@MvonTzeskagrad Unfinished business is really cool. Your class is very stylish and there is something pleasing about watching minions grow bigger and bigger. But is there anything the class does beyond stack buffs? It just seems like a surface level gameplan: play stat efficient minions, then make them even bigger. Notes: Sever Bonds is a strictly better Flame Geyser. I like the first Spark o H more. Restless Dead is allllmost Fire-Fly, but I love the Ungoro expac so its all good haha.
@Ardin427 A rushy sky class is a good theme. It seems very Hero Power focused, to a degree that other classes aren't. I'd almost pull back a little from that, because you don't actually want people just slamming the HP turn after turn. I suppose Call helps with that.
@ksplice One thing to keep in mind with Tick/Tock is the mana cost of cards. You want to play your cards on curve, and it feels bad not to. So whichever effect is off-curve should be at least a little more powerful than the "normal" on curve effect (even if they do wildly different things).
A bit late but still in need of reactions/feedback
The keyword is really simple. What is the most important thing for secret agent? To get the job done. And when it IS done that's a...
(It can only be triggered if the minion with the success attacks itself. Just like overkill)
A bunch of cards to showcase this effect:
This cards also go with the weapon theme, big minions theme and positioning removals theme!
To continue the "hero power" theme... (and to fulfill the first challenge). Oh, and they're also semi-success, semi-big cards.
Actually this ^ guy isn't very stealthy. He just calls himself that. Oh well.
More cards for the BIG archetype (and to fulfill the second challenge with the "unidentified-like" card). Release expansion for Agent is Rise of Shadows.
The real token will have the actual battlecry. You will also know about the battlecry beforehand.
And NO it's not a spyglass. It's a club. An observation club. Trust me.
As for legendary... Introducing my sweet boy (or whoever is behind that mask) Keiran! It's this classes's much needed AoE-like card. And draw-like card. And big-minion card. And success card. Can it be even better?
Just imagine him appearing on the board with something like "I will make them talk. One way or another." and attacking yelling "SPILL. IT. OUT."
And the rest of the cards. Little opening for Secret theme (it IS a Secret Agent, right?), some flavoury stuff for midrange plays...
Any feedback is appreciated!
@Klaytonio
Some of these are overly complicated imo. Like how does Vengeful Agent interact with being attacked by a 4/3? Does he not attack? Does he attack and both die? Does he attack and heals, meaning Success triggers no matter if the minion survives or not? Also, it's an 8 mana 6/7 do nothing when you play it, I honestly would buff some stats, give it rush and done (and if so, make it common).
There's something weird about having all these similar looking dudes having such a wild range of stats, many of them on the side of giants, although I won't make a big fuss of that because hearthstone sometimes is that wacky with its minions.
Change of Plans can be reworded as Dr. Morrigan's effect.
I'm not even sure where to begin with Observation Club. But I think you should just make the weapon trigger both battlecries.
Keiran might use a buff to attack.
Spying Tech and Crowd of Onlookers are spot on imo (perhaps the crowd could see some stat tweaks, but the flavor is just perfect).
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@MvonTzeskagrad
Thanks for your feedback!
Vengeful Agent will not attack the 4/3 back and Success won't trigger. It only attacks back something that survived a clash with him. Lowering his attack and giving him Rush sounds good but I want to avoid printing 2 cards with both Rush and Success. Maybe Taunt?
Thank you for the Morrigan reminder. I completely forgot about her!
I might change the Club to "Add a 3/3 Spy with copied Battlecry to your hand"
@Klaytonio
Ok, and if a Boulderfist Ogre attacks Vengeful Agent, both die? Or Success triggers and Vengeful lives? Taunt looks fine with it (he becomes THAT good at not letting things go), although then definitively needs a boost on stats.
That change to the Club is soooo much better. ^^
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@MvonTzeskagrad
In that case, Success triggers and Vengeful lives. How does 8 mana 7/8 taunt sounds with this effect?
You're on a really good track with this rework. I love the idea of a card that shuffles in a ton of plague cards all at once as I build up to the plague. I am confident that it would be extremely frustrating to wait through multiple drawn "take 2 damage cards" a turn though, slows things down, but there's probably a UX solution to make this less frustrating (not certain about this, as the core UI/UX of drawing cards isn't always flexible in cardgames, but I'll assume that it's doable within scope for the sake of the design analysis).
Right now it seems like your main issue is that you have a class filled with delayed payoff mechanics. Infect creates a delayed payoff, blightburst creates a delayed payoff. HS games are often decisively won or lost in 5-7 turns (control mirrors non-withstanding) so that's hard to do. Normally you need to pair delayed gratification like that with heavily defensive archetypes, so they have time to play a very long game, or you create ways to get a payoff early (like a giant that costs 1 less for each blightburst you've created this game, similar to the one that rewards you for infecting minions). I'd also be expecting to see a mass rez of all enemy minions you infected this game, that seems like an easy legendary battlecry to me.
In general, a design where you reward a delayed payoff (infect) with another delayed payoff (shuffle in blightbursts for each time you've infected enemy minons) is somewhat dangerous. I'd definitely think hard about how this plays in practice and how the player is supposed to win with this strategy. The natural solution is bomb warrior's, go heavy control while bombs kill them. More parasitic solutions that speicifcally reward you for simply creating blightbursts even if they haven't been draw yet are possible too.
TLDR: Right now it feels like you've got two cool thematic delayed effects that both represent "poisoning/infecting" in different ways, and they're fighting for attention with one another. I'd pick one and focus in on it, possibly make the other a stand-alone card rather than its own multi-card archetype. Since you're locked to infect already, I'd basically just turn Outbreak into a standalone Epic epic card that can singlehandedly create its own archetype (those are really fun and very valuable for a class, there are many examples of cards like this).