The Custom Class Competition is back for its sixth iteration! We welcome any newcomers as well as old hands who've run through this grueling gauntlet of card creation before.
The good news is, said gauntlet is much smaller this time around. With the release of Demon Hunter, Blizzard has shown us how they release a custom class midway in the game's lifespan. Therefore, we will simulate this as close as possible. Take the time to read the rules or procedures below.
This is the Discussion Thread! Ask for feedback, return the favour, ask questions, etc. here.
All contestants will create one custom class, following the layout of Demon Hunter.
There will be a total of 45 cards, down from 65+ cards from previous competitions.
All contestants will select a past expansion to simulate their class releasing, like how Demon Hunter was released during Ashes of Outland.
The contest will run for 4 weeks.
Week One: 10 Basic cards.
Week Two: 10 "Initiate" cards.
Week Three: The other 10 "Initiate" cards.
Week Four: 15 expansion cards.
"Initiate" means the supplemental 20 cards Blizzard printed for Demon Hunter. Yours do not have to be named Initiate set.
Challenge
Now, we all know what Altruis the Outcast is capable of. However, I find the fact that a card that synergizes so well with a keyword, on paper, at least, much more interesting. Therefore, this week's challenge will test the flexibility of your keyword:
At least one card (minion, spell, or weapon) must have a card text that directly synergizes with your keyword but cannot mention the keyword.
Here's an example, let's say your keyword was "Deathrattle", you could have "If a friendly minion died this turn, etc. etc."
Or, if your keyword was "Lifesteal", you could have "If your hero was healed this turn, etc. etc."
This allows for some leeway with your card and keyword, just like Altruis, but, I do reserve the right to ask you to change your card.
Artimex723's Challenge
You are the only custom class that doesn't have a keyword! I could have given you a bye round, but where's the fun in that? Congratulations, you have a personal challenge!
You have a lot of cards with 4 lines (six out of ten!). That is something Blizzard actually tends to avoid when making cards. So, you are allowed only twocards with 4 lines during this week. This includes your Secrets.
Submission Format
You must adhere to the following rules or risk disqualification:
Unless otherwise stated, you are allowed three cards to showcase. All other cards must be hidden in a spoiler.
You may include flavour texts. For the showcase cards, their texts do not need to be spoilered.
You may include a single banner at the top of your submission post. It may not be overly fancy. This is entirely subjective and the moderators have the right to remove a banner they feel is too fancy and, therefore, gives an inherent advantage over other posts.
Golden cards are not allowed, nor are huge images that feature your cards with a background.
If you choose to include other images other than a banner, they must be hidden behind a spoiler.
F.A.Q.
How is the Initiate set split in half?
There are 8 commons, 6 rares, 4 epics, and 2 legionaries. That makes splitting the Initiate set in half rather easy.
For Week Three, contestants will create 4 commons, 3 rares, 2 epics, and 1 legendary.
What expansions can I choose from?
You may select from any expansion except Mean Streets of Gadgetzan. This is due to the nature of tri-class cards.
Uh oh spaghettios, class cycles.
As I briefly touched upon in a reply in the preliminary thread, when the fourth week rolls around and you have to choose an expansion to slot your class into, you must have at least one all-class cycle.All-class, in this context, means both a cycle shared between all 9 classes, and a cycle that the League of EVIL classes or Explorers classes share.
While, at first, it seems to make sense that your custom class should adhere to all all-class cycles in a given expansion, Demon Hunter did not have a Prime legendary. However, it is recommended that you include all all-class cycles in your custom class. Some all-class cycles hinge on other cycles within the expansion. Use common sense when choosing which cycles to use and to not use. (ex. You do not have a Loa, but instead choose to have a Loa shrine)
To clarify, here are the all-class cycles you may choose from:
GvG: A class mech.
TGT: There is no theme shared between all classes.
WOTOG: There is no theme shared between all classes.
RR: Legendary Loa, thematically supporting legendary minion, Loa Spirit card with a 0/3 statline
RoS: EITHER One Lackey generation card + One Scheme spell OR Two Twinspells
Furthermore, each of the EVIL members have a "callback" to the expansions they were first introduced in. However, you do not need to do this as your custom class is being introduced and has nothing to callback.
SoU: EITHER A Plague spell OR A singleton legendary, a Quest that changes your Hero Power as a reward.
DoD: EITHER Galakrond + a Galakrond support card OR a Dragon Explorer minion + Two Sidequests, a Legendary Dragon.
AoO: There is no theme shared between all classes.
9/10 classes have a Prime legendary, 9/10 classes have a Dormant minion.
What about card cycles not shared between all nine classes, like Omega cards, or Aspirant cards?
You may pick and choose from those.
What about Hero Cards like Hagatha, Dr. Boom?
After much thought, I have decided to, for now, disallow Hero Cards in your expansion set unless it is a Galakrond hero. While I am aware Warlock came with Jaraxxus in their Classic set, I feel as though a new class receiving a massive power spike in the form of a Hero Card while other classes did not in that expansion will create an even worse problem DH did upon arrival.
Can I rename the "Initiate" set to whatever I want?
Yes.
What watermarks do I use?
For the "Initiate" set, you can use whatever watermark you think makes the most sense.
Do I have to follow the rarity distribution of the Demon Hunter Initiate set?
Yes.
You may not introduce a Legendary spell or Hero in the Initiate set as there are none in the current Demon Hunter example we've been given.
Do I need to adhere to Warcraft lore?
The short answer: no.
The long answer: Try your best to do so. Even if your Hero is not a character found in Warcraft, you can still achieve a general feel of Warcraftiness by using in-game place names and references. Put in the work and use some elbow grease. Do your research on WoWwiki.
Do I need class-exclusive keyword?
No.
Competition Process
Week Two: June 30th - July 7th. There will then be a pause between the 25th and the commencement of Week Three, in order to set up a final voting period for Week Two.
At the behest of the contestants, everyone from Week Two will be allowed to compete in Week Three. The final four will be decided by cumulative votes, starting from Week One.
Let's do this ! This week I want to round up my Pioneer set with more control and value oriented cards :
The Primalist :
I've also ventured far in the realm of cross-tribe synergies so I want to make more direct tribal cards :
Now for the challenge, I'm not sure if the following cards fit. The thing is, Channel is all about having multiple minions with the same tribe but not much else. Tell me what you think :
Unique keyword :
Finally, I wanted a legendary card that summed up the defensive nature of the Primalist and the tribe synergies while also portraying an iconic WoW character. Here's what I came up with :
I'd love to here what you think of these cards and wether or not the complement well the rest of the Pioneer set below :
How about creating a card that helps make Channel more effective? Perhaps, say, changing a minion's tribe to All that turn.
Or, possibly, a card that rewards you for having the same tribe on the field.
The challenge is possible for (nearly) every keyword in the comp currently, to my knowledge. I won't say who I think will have difficulty, and I hope they can prove me wrong, as this challenge, as I've said, is to see how solid a keyword is.
Well, that's quite a challenge I got here, but I suppose with how my cards are now, I will not have to make too many changes. Here comes the second half of my Disciple set. As always I would gladly listen to any advise, especially since there are some cards I am not yet sure about.
In the first part of the Disciple set I've included most of the stuff I have for "Midrange Vampire" or "Zoo Vampire" archetype. Now I would like to give my class a push in a Value or Control style of play.
Here is a new type of minions, which would love you to haunt the game for a bit longer with the value they give - Banshees.
(In the discussion thread last week I also included another Banshee, but I ultimately decided to cut her.)
So, as I mentioned before, Banshees are fairly simple minions, which are meant to go into a control archetype. They give some value and all have "Stealth".
Here are the other two secrets (one of them has 4 lines):
I thought a lot about the amount of health "Blood Shield" should restore and ultimately I decided that 12 is a fair number. I wanted to create something resembling Ice Barrier, but in a more "bloody" way. And since the secret I mentioned gives you 8 armor before you get attacked, I think that 12 health after you get attacked is even weaker. First of all, health cannot go over 30, while armor is unlimited. Secondly, Blood Shield would not activate, if your opponent dealt lethal damage to your hero.
And here is the rest:
"Blood Bolt" was probably the most problematic card I have ever created. I wanted to give Blood Mage an OTK opportunity, but as I have been advised last week, giving it the "double spell damage bonus" effect would make it to strong. Ultimately I decided to go with a simplier version. "Tenris Mirkblood" is a weak card. Even as I created him I wanted him to be reelatively weak, since he is meant to resemble the classic legendaries other classes have. Obviously Blizzard made a huge mistake with Demon Hunter's legendary cards, but I wanted my set to be more balanced, so similiarly to other classes, Tenris Mirkblood is a strong card, but with low synergies.
I would love to hear your oppinion on the cards, and obviously - Good Luck to all contestants!
Graveyard Witch is Ogre Magi, while Vampiric Knight is very weak.
On the other hand, Death Prayer is a powercreep to another secret you made, (Death Ritual I think its name was)... in fact you kinda use words like Death an blood a lot. I suggest you think in synonims... or even other wow blood magic users, like the mogu and their animus as well.
Also, most class original legendaries are not really that weak, just require support archetypes, wich may or may not be present. You may allow yourself to give Tenris a bit more love.
Graveyard Witch is Ogre Magi, while Vampiric Knight is very weak.
On the other hand, Death Prayer is a powercreep to another secret you made, (Death Ritual I think its name was)... in fact you kinda use words like Death an blood a lot. I suggest you think in synonims... or even other wow blood magic users, like the mogu and their animus as well.
Also, most class original legendaries are not really that weak, just require support archetypes, wich may or may not be present. You may allow yourself to give Tenris a bit more love.
Heck, I have already changed Graveyard Witch 3 times and it always turns out that a card like this already exists. I will need to look through all the spell damage cards in hearthstone once again and somehow fit her in. Anyway, thanks for noticing this. Regarding Vampiric Knight, I think I will just make it 5 mana 4/5, like it was before.
Death Prayer actually is really different than Sacrifice Ritual (i guess thats the card you had in mind). The former is a card similiar Shadow Madness, but it's on a secret and has no attack restrictions. Sacrifice Ritual kills a minion when the opponent plays it. I think both of the cards are signifficantly different. Yes, they are srong, but their cost is "3" (very high for a secret) and your opponent can easilly play around them with cards like Lackeys or genuinelly other small minions. I don't think any of these two secrets powercreeps the other.
I have the feeling your class is very weak on draw, you thought changing Graveyard Witch lowering stats in order to also draw a spell? As a wild guess.
I have the feeling your class is very weak on draw, you thought changing Graveyard Witch lowering stats in order to also draw a spell? As a wild guess.
I think, I will just make her draw a spell like you said, but it will require some research. I agree that BM doesn't have much draw, but I will add much more of it in my RoS set. (If I advance to next phase, obviously)
Ok, I already laid out my 20 card Journeyman set in the last discussion thread, here's where I'll try to nail down my showcase and then my challenge card.
Showcase wise I'm thinking these three:
Fun With Portals has been changed from its earlier "Draw 1 card (improved by Spell Damage)" version to be much more tied to needing a Spell Damage source to be viable. Sparklash I just like the design, and Octavian is the remaining legendary.
The remaining set of options:
Of these potential showcases, my leading alternates are Nether Grenade, Target Lock, and Omega Surge. Nether Grenade is the weakest alternate because Sparklash gets at the same (to my mind) neat 'Deal 0 Damage' angle while also supplying the Spell Damage underpinning. Target Lock I like, but I recognize the way I've costed it (1 with a 5 mana surcharge instead of 6 with a 5 mana discount) is janky, although I think my version works within the code of the game. Omega Surge is just a lot of nice big easy numbers, which might be enough for a showcase now that I think about it.
For my challenge, I'm pre-retiring the original Dual Sheller, which was just Arcanite Reaper with Surge. Tinkertown Thug already satisfies the 'vanilla with Surge' aspect of the set, and I don't have anything already made that fits the challenge.
Here's the kind of stuff I'm thinking so far, welcome any feedback:
Since it's replacing a Common card I'm trying to make the tie-in effect simple. Since Surge is about spreading the damage around to enemies, the easiest to grasp tie-in would be something that pings off multiple enemies being damaged (i.e. you hit one minion with Surge and the excess splashed onto another enemy minion).
Tinker Trainee and Dual Sheller A are both intended to be triggered after one Surge hit. Adding Vent spells to the hand seems on the simpler end of things while still being useful. Tinker Rocker is intended to be the class's version of the 1/3 with Attack pumping; I made it until end of turn because it'd definitely get out of hand faster than Mana Wyrm if it kept the pump. Dual Sheller B is a similar concept Attack increase.
@Klipce
I generally agree with Anatomy_of_Time's thoughts, although if Inquisitive Youngling just gives a 1/1 copy of the card in your hand, rather than summoning a 1/1 copy on the board, you're fine. Agree with McF4rtson that the simplest keyword synergy for your challenge card will be something like a Nightmare Amalgam or something that Amalgam-izes a minion so that all Channel and tribe effects apply.
@Anatomy_of_Time
Generally looks good, you really explored the (improved by Spell Damage) space well. Specific thoughts:
Jadebark Dragon: The "Your next spell costs (0)" mechanic is so variably costed, but I think a specific hand size is about right.
Thalia: This is tricky, because the cost is right assuming ideal conditions (plenty of spells played throughout the game with the right hand size) but it's hard to know at a glance how easy those idealconditions are. Although the spells aspect is presumably easiest to take care of with just Razorpetals, this is a lot like the other legendary where it also requires you to potentially hoard petals while waiting for the right time to strike. Since the drawing ability for the class isn't the best petals will probably end up being the main way to work around Bloom. Outside of the ideal scenario it's way overcosted, so once you draw it you end up working to make sure its not a dead card. I'd suggest a tweak so that it has a minor effect on its own with a more powerful Bloom effect if you can get everything to line up, but that could get wordy.
Riverbound Cleaver: So my first thought is that this is Fatecleaver outside of its unique Arena-exclusive setting, and I don't think one more mana is enough to justify two copies being added to a deck. This essentially gives the potential for four Flik Skyshivs each game! Maybe if you limit it to all other copies currently in play?
@Artimex723
It sounds like you'll be reworking some of the other cards, but with regards to Tenris, what about the other Classic class legendaries would you consider weak? In general, your Classic legendary should be something thematic with your class that either functions as a win condition on its own (or can support the win condition for the deck), or at least needs to be dealt with immediately.
Chucking out some ideas I have for now. I will get some feedback done for others tonight when I get the Sub topic up.
Last set, I focused on bursts of play and weapons. Here, I still have a bit of that, but will now branch into making wide boards (something I started in the Basic set), and copying. Transform is still a flavour decision that I will try to implement.
I need help naming the epic spell, if the concept is fine.
Hi everyone! This is part 2 of the Bloodburner Initiate set. Last week we saw Hero Power synergies and Dragons. This week i'm introducing card generation mechanics (as hinted by a card in the last week) and some more spells, both offensive and defensive. Gotta get some healing in a class that keeps hurting itself every turn right?
The cards:
The challenge card is, well any self damaging card, but i designed Fire Rain specifically for this. It lets you activate Fresh Blood this next turn without paying mana.
Living Rose is too good. It's 2 mana, add a Razorpetal and deal 2 damage on a 2/1 body.
Jadebark Dragon seems a lot harder to make use of compared to Dragoncaster. You also don't really have that many expensive spells in the first place. (I even took a look in your Basic Set to confirm this)
A large portion of your Set focuses on Spell Damage (10/20). Rarely are specific archetypes so heavily pushed. If you recall, Hearthstone devs only wanted to focus on very broad, general playstyles. "Minions dying", was one, and "demons" was another.
I also feel like some of your cards are too similar to ones used by control Warlock: Vine Lash is similar to Dark Skies, Rampant Growth is similar to Abyssal Summoner. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, just something for you to note.
Finally, try to balance Thalia against C'Thun. Getting a big C'Thun usually meant sacrificing tempo. Does your class sacrifice something in order to build up a huge Thalia?
@Anatomy_of_Time I'd go with the second version. While the spell damage one I like it even more, I have to admit you have plenty of spell damage synergy already.
@SideItem Go for the 1-drop, definitively. Also, I like the idea of 0 damage spells.
@McF4rston I like the balance of most cards, although I find kind of sad Knife Artist realistically works only on Kunais, as it leaves your other weapons restricted to other combos. Is it possible that Rising Dragon Fist is kind of undercosted? I mean, for 2 mana you have The Black Knight's battlecry, but then you can play it mulltiple times, transformed into supercheap Assassinate. It's true tho, this class doesnt have that many strong removal, besides Bamf! so that may mean you plan this to be niinja's safety belt. By the way, you like Gift of the Lotus as name for the epic spell?
@Noah_McGrath I like the set in general... but Incinerate I find it pretty weak. Compared to Shadowbolt this does 1 more damage but can't be used as removal unless you want to take a gazillion damage. It's true tho, this set has quite a lot of Lifesteal, so maybe is intended to work that way.
I've been starting to tinker with my class... last season I've been working on secret synergy, introducing Narrative, and some small synergy on minions and hand stuff. This one, while also having some secrets, it's mostly consisting on more Narratives, spell and minion synergies... any thoughts on these?
As for my challenge, I thought on this card, wich I balanced based on Underbelly Fence.
And, for the rest of the set...
IMPORTANT: I already detected possible wording mistakes, but can't fix them right now. Monstrous Codex might need to be reworded as "if you cast another spell". The Hero of Old is suppoused to buff your other minions, not himself. By the way, the more I think about Climax, the more awkward I feel about it... is this spell too unfair to play against? If else, should I try a different concept, or can be balanced in interesting way?
Thanks to everyone for your feedback, here are my revisions and a new card (Clear Waters felt wierd to me and it's a bit too wording imo) :
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The first version was a bit of a mess and the similarities with New Brood (from the first half of the Pioneer Set) made it confusing. I want it to be a flavorfull1-cost Discover Spell like many classes have.
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Straight up buff which yeah was needed as feedback pointed out. I thought about making it a Channel card but I decided against it. I already have 7 cards with the keyword and explored it quite well imo last phase so I don't think it will be a part of this phase.
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So Cloaked Raven was a bit wierd. Stealth isn't a core keyword for the Primalist and it might cause many exploits. The new version is not a Beast itself but it pushes the Token playstyle and it's very simple, which is important to me as I often overcomplicate things.
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Okay so I considered the arguments from @Anatomy_of_Time and I would agree that 5 mana draw 3 would be a bit weak. So I went to 5 mana draw 4 but with a restriction. It also builds on having multiple minions with the same tribe. The only thing I'm not sure about is if it should be this version or reversed : draw 3 and if you have " minions with the same tribe draw one more. I don't want it to be completely useless when you don't meet the requirement but still push players to meet said requirement. Toughts ?
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While the first version wasn't bad, it was indeed swingy and had no support. I tried to make it both simpler and more interesting. I quite like it. I tried a version that would give your minions Windfury but it seemed a bit too much for one card.
So this new card is an attempt to fit this week's challenge. The idea is to give the Primalist a new tribe to play with without printing a dozen new cards. It also synergies well with Channel as is allows for combinations impossible otherwise and let's the player dump a bunch of minions before buffing them with a Channel card. What do you think ?
Rest of the set :
Reviews :
@Anatomy_of_Time
I like your deck disruption stuff but Prima seems a bit wierd. The stats are just okay and the effect isn't really that useful. Sure most of these spells will be Razorpetals but not always. I suggest you rework your first version but as a Battlecry or make the second version more useful. Maybe you could make it fill the opponent hand (with Razorpetals ?) to add mill potential.
Hand size cards and the support they get are cool and work well with you keyword.
I'm a bit on the fence with you spell damage improved spells. Both look very powerful, even with Spell Damage +1. I think they should cost more.
@Artimex723
Bashees are a nice soft cycle of cards. Your secrets are cool I think. I like your new Blood Bolt. Why doesn't Tenris summon Vampyrs ? It seems to me like it would fit the token archetype of this tribe and open up synergies as well as being thematic.
@Sidletem
I still think that Fun with Portals is a problem. I think you should have it cost 2 like Battle Rage. The thing is, 1 mana draw 1 is already strong, but with you class' access to Spell Damage it can become crazy really fast. I think I already talked about the rest of your set last phase, it's still quite good.
I like Tinker Rocker and Dual Sheller #2 best. The Hero Power already generates Vents so I don't like the idea of filling the hand even more. Bonus Attack is better. Still, you might want to downgrade the durability to 2. The thing is, a 4/3 weapon is already 12 damage and then is only grows... I think you should assume that, against most decks, damaging 2 enemy minions each turn can be done consistently. Maybe change the text to "for each enemy damaged this turn" to make it a bit easier to trigger and balance around that.
@McF4rtson
Solid cards. Kan-ri is cool but I'd like to see a more flashy payoff after dumping so many cards. Rising Dragon Fist might be a little anoying with all the coping options in you class. Maybe 3 mana ? You Epic spell could be called "We are the Lotus" or "Face of the Lotus". I'd love to see the rest of you cards, especially a third Palm Arts weapon.
@Noah_McGrath
While I like your keyword, I think you should try to use it by itself and drop the Battlecry. Simplicity is key in design and it seems to me that cards with two or three distinct effects are often too complicated for Hearthstone.
Flyn the Reckless is so cool but I don't really see the payoff. Sure you have a few high-cost cards but they are mostly board whips that cost less than 7 and a lot of them already cost Health. I don't realy know how you can make it work. Maybe a few mid-cost spells that can assemble an OTK ? Paying Health instead of Mana is only good if you can win that very turn imo when you already have 7 mana to work with.
@MvonTzeskagrad
See Tertiary Character is exactly the kind of card that makes me hesitant with your keyword. Without the effect, it's underwhelming, with it it's quite broken being a 0 Mana 3/2 with your Hero Power's effect. I think you should try something like Embiggen over cost reduction to trigger Narrative. Heroic Sidekick has the same problem but worse. It's also not really in the spirit of the challenge as it's more an alternate Narrative and not a synergy card.
Living Knowledge sounds very swingy and needs too much setup in my opinion. Light Reading should have a condition to be added back to your hand, otherwise it's very much broken. Narrative ?
Netherlight Scrollkeeper fulfills the challenge but like it the mot boring way possible. My suggestion is instead that it shuffles the cost of you cards.
Climax is fine I think. It's basicaly a Twisting Nether with some burst on top. Maybe limiting it to enemies could work ?
Knife Artist is basically saying "You can either do one of four things: 1) swing with Kunai and pass, swing with Kunai, 2) equip another one of your stored-up Kunais and swing again, 3) swing with Kunai and equip another weapon from hand and swing, 4) immediately equip another weapon and swing twice. So it is more than possible to use her with other weapons.
Rising Dragon Fist, I have less spell-copying than minion-copying, generally speaking. I'll keep an eye out for other feedback but from what others are saying, so far, maybe 3 mana... but then it's rather weak at first.
Gift of the Lotus is good (as is all the other suggestions from others).
On to your cards:
So, Darkflame Tome, how easy is it to abuse with Malygos, do you think? Two of these with Maly is 28.
Heroic Sidequick > Sidekick. Also suggesting a 2/2 body.
I think Climax is generally fine. It's not good against tall boards, and against aggro, you likely will not make it to turn 9.
Okay so I made a few changes based on feedback. Twisted Bargain felt wierd from the get go nd I managed to find a better idea so here goes :
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Previous versions :
Raven's Eye I pushed is a more token direction, making it similar to Duskbat.
Primordial Wind went through so many iterations... I'm not sure which version is the most flavorful and interesting. I like the last one but I'm not sure.
Foretelling I like both versions and I don't know which one is best. The first really encourages to meet the requirement but can be kinda dead, which led me to the second version but then I fear it's a bit too strong without meeting the requirement.
Identity Crisis is my way to tackle this week's challenge. It's removal with the damage and the change of tribe that can be exploited with something like Hungry Crab but also a way to give one of your minions all tribes and power-up Channel effects. The name is a bit on-the-nose so I might change it to "Amalgam Bolt" or something.
Identity Crisis is perfect as-is. Glad you took my suggestion and gave it excellent flavour. On-the-nose names, punny names, names with references, those are the best kind of card names.
@Klipce I aggree, Identity Crisis is just perfect. Also, I wasn't friend of giving your class demon synergy in the Pioneer set. That would have worked better as an expansion theme in an expansion with demons.
The reason I have a ton of relevant art for the cards I'm making is because I've looked for it before actually making the Nymph. I absolutely did not want to find myself in the situation where I had to give up on a card idea because I didn't have the card art for it. So, before starting, I looked up a bunch of stuff on ArtStation and MTG Art based on the ideas I had for some classes and in the end made the one I had the most art for.
Haha I think this is about the exact opposite of my process! I'll spend a bunch of time getting my card text right, then spend about 3x that amount trying to cram the square peg of mechanics into the round hole of whatever art I can cobble together. Google images 'similar images' feature gets a workout from me.
Okay so I made a few changes based on feedback. Twisted Bargain felt wierd from the get go nd I managed to find a better idea so here goes :
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Previous versions :
Raven's Eye I pushed is a more token direction, making it similar to Duskbat.
Primordial Wind went through so many iterations... I'm not sure which version is the most flavorful and interesting. I like the last one but I'm not sure.
Foretelling I like both versions and I don't know which one is best. The first really encourages to meet the requirement but can be kinda dead, which led me to the second version but then I fear it's a bit too strong without meeting the requirement.
Identity Crisis is my way to tackle this week's challenge. It's removal with the damage and the change of tribe that can be exploited with something like Hungry Crab but also a way to give one of your minions all tribes and power-up Channel effects. The name is a bit on-the-nose so I might change it to "Amalgam Bolt" or something.
Agree with the others, you nailed Identity Crisis in one.
Foretelling should be draw 3 with the potential for an extra card. As mentioned previously, "Draw 3" is worth about 4.5 mana, "Draw 4" is worth about 6. Foretelling drawing 3 on its own means its not ideal, but still playable if you topdeck it. Then if you work to get the conditions right you get a bonus upside. If the baseline is draw 1 then it becomes essentially a dead card unless you can assemble the right board, which is more frustrating.
Primordial Wind might have been one tweak too far. I get you're trying to push Channel farther, but by tying this to having a board full of the same tribe it either becomes a dead card or a heavy win-more card. The 6-Cost "Deal 1 damage thrice" version is balanced and simple. If you want to stick with the Channel version, I'd suggest a slight wording tweak. When a spell 'gives' a minion something it means it becomes part of the minion's text, so saying you're giving a minion "deal 1 damage to all enemies" feels weird since there's no trigger.
I'd suggest "Channel: Give a minion Windfury, then deal 1 damage to all enemies." That separates it out into giving the minion (and all others with the same tribe) Windfury, and then separately dealing 1 damage to all enemies (once for that minion, then repeating again for all others with the same tribe).
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The Custom Class Competition is back for its sixth iteration! We welcome any newcomers as well as old hands who've run through this grueling gauntlet of card creation before.
The good news is, said gauntlet is much smaller this time around. With the release of Demon Hunter, Blizzard has shown us how they release a custom class midway in the game's lifespan. Therefore, we will simulate this as close as possible. Take the time to read the rules or procedures below.
This is the Discussion Thread! Ask for feedback, return the favour, ask questions, etc. here.
Do NOT post your submission here.
The Submission Thread is here.
Overview
Challenge
Submission Format
F.A.Q.
Competition Process
Let's do this ! This week I want to round up my Pioneer set with more control and value oriented cards :
The Primalist :
I've also ventured far in the realm of cross-tribe synergies so I want to make more direct tribal cards :
Now for the challenge, I'm not sure if the following cards fit. The thing is, Channel is all about having multiple minions with the same tribe but not much else. Tell me what you think :
Unique keyword :
Finally, I wanted a legendary card that summed up the defensive nature of the Primalist and the tribe synergies while also portraying an iconic WoW character. Here's what I came up with :
I'd love to here what you think of these cards and wether or not the complement well the rest of the Pioneer set below :
How about creating a card that helps make Channel more effective? Perhaps, say, changing a minion's tribe to All that turn.
Or, possibly, a card that rewards you for having the same tribe on the field.
The challenge is possible for (nearly) every keyword in the comp currently, to my knowledge. I won't say who I think will have difficulty, and I hope they can prove me wrong, as this challenge, as I've said, is to see how solid a keyword is.
Well, that's quite a challenge I got here, but I suppose with how my cards are now, I will not have to make too many changes. Here comes the second half of my Disciple set. As always I would gladly listen to any advise, especially since there are some cards I am not yet sure about.
In the first part of the Disciple set I've included most of the stuff I have for "Midrange Vampire" or "Zoo Vampire" archetype. Now I would like to give my class a push in a Value or Control style of play.
Here is a new type of minions, which would love you to haunt the game for a bit longer with the value they give - Banshees.
(In the discussion thread last week I also included another Banshee, but I ultimately decided to cut her.)
So, as I mentioned before, Banshees are fairly simple minions, which are meant to go into a control archetype. They give some value and all have "Stealth".
Here are the other two secrets (one of them has 4 lines):
I thought a lot about the amount of health "Blood Shield" should restore and ultimately I decided that 12 is a fair number. I wanted to create something resembling Ice Barrier, but in a more "bloody" way. And since the secret I mentioned gives you 8 armor before you get attacked, I think that 12 health after you get attacked is even weaker. First of all, health cannot go over 30, while armor is unlimited. Secondly, Blood Shield would not activate, if your opponent dealt lethal damage to your hero.
And here is the rest:
"Blood Bolt" was probably the most problematic card I have ever created. I wanted to give Blood Mage an OTK opportunity, but as I have been advised last week, giving it the "double spell damage bonus" effect would make it to strong. Ultimately I decided to go with a simplier version. "Tenris Mirkblood" is a weak card. Even as I created him I wanted him to be reelatively weak, since he is meant to resemble the classic legendaries other classes have. Obviously Blizzard made a huge mistake with Demon Hunter's legendary cards, but I wanted my set to be more balanced, so similiarly to other classes, Tenris Mirkblood is a strong card, but with low synergies.
I would love to hear your oppinion on the cards, and obviously - Good Luck to all contestants!
Graveyard Witch is Ogre Magi, while Vampiric Knight is very weak.
On the other hand, Death Prayer is a powercreep to another secret you made, (Death Ritual I think its name was)... in fact you kinda use words like Death an blood a lot. I suggest you think in synonims... or even other wow blood magic users, like the mogu and their animus as well.
Also, most class original legendaries are not really that weak, just require support archetypes, wich may or may not be present. You may allow yourself to give Tenris a bit more love.
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Heck, I have already changed Graveyard Witch 3 times and it always turns out that a card like this already exists. I will need to look through all the spell damage cards in hearthstone once again and somehow fit her in. Anyway, thanks for noticing this. Regarding Vampiric Knight, I think I will just make it 5 mana 4/5, like it was before.
Death Prayer actually is really different than Sacrifice Ritual (i guess thats the card you had in mind). The former is a card similiar Shadow Madness, but it's on a secret and has no attack restrictions. Sacrifice Ritual kills a minion when the opponent plays it. I think both of the cards are signifficantly different. Yes, they are srong, but their cost is "3" (very high for a secret) and your opponent can easilly play around them with cards like Lackeys or genuinelly other small minions. I don't think any of these two secrets powercreeps the other.
I will deffinitely think more about Tenris.
Thanks for your feedback. (^_^)
I have the feeling your class is very weak on draw, you thought changing Graveyard Witch lowering stats in order to also draw a spell? As a wild guess.
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I think, I will just make her draw a spell like you said, but it will require some research. I agree that BM doesn't have much draw, but I will add much more of it in my RoS set. (If I advance to next phase, obviously)
Ok, I already laid out my 20 card Journeyman set in the last discussion thread, here's where I'll try to nail down my showcase and then my challenge card.
Showcase wise I'm thinking these three:
Fun With Portals has been changed from its earlier "Draw 1 card (improved by Spell Damage)" version to be much more tied to needing a Spell Damage source to be viable. Sparklash I just like the design, and Octavian is the remaining legendary.
The remaining set of options:
Of these potential showcases, my leading alternates are Nether Grenade, Target Lock, and Omega Surge. Nether Grenade is the weakest alternate because Sparklash gets at the same (to my mind) neat 'Deal 0 Damage' angle while also supplying the Spell Damage underpinning. Target Lock I like, but I recognize the way I've costed it (1 with a 5 mana surcharge instead of 6 with a 5 mana discount) is janky, although I think my version works within the code of the game. Omega Surge is just a lot of nice big easy numbers, which might be enough for a showcase now that I think about it.
For my challenge, I'm pre-retiring the original Dual Sheller, which was just Arcanite Reaper with Surge. Tinkertown Thug already satisfies the 'vanilla with Surge' aspect of the set, and I don't have anything already made that fits the challenge.
Here's the kind of stuff I'm thinking so far, welcome any feedback:
Since it's replacing a Common card I'm trying to make the tie-in effect simple. Since Surge is about spreading the damage around to enemies, the easiest to grasp tie-in would be something that pings off multiple enemies being damaged (i.e. you hit one minion with Surge and the excess splashed onto another enemy minion).
Tinker Trainee and Dual Sheller A are both intended to be triggered after one Surge hit. Adding Vent spells to the hand seems on the simpler end of things while still being useful. Tinker Rocker is intended to be the class's version of the 1/3 with Attack pumping; I made it until end of turn because it'd definitely get out of hand faster than Mana Wyrm if it kept the pump. Dual Sheller B is a similar concept Attack increase.
@Klipce
I generally agree with Anatomy_of_Time's thoughts, although if Inquisitive Youngling just gives a 1/1 copy of the card in your hand, rather than summoning a 1/1 copy on the board, you're fine. Agree with McF4rtson that the simplest keyword synergy for your challenge card will be something like a Nightmare Amalgam or something that Amalgam-izes a minion so that all Channel and tribe effects apply.
@Anatomy_of_Time
Generally looks good, you really explored the (improved by Spell Damage) space well. Specific thoughts:
Jadebark Dragon: The "Your next spell costs (0)" mechanic is so variably costed, but I think a specific hand size is about right.
Thalia: This is tricky, because the cost is right assuming ideal conditions (plenty of spells played throughout the game with the right hand size) but it's hard to know at a glance how easy those idealconditions are. Although the spells aspect is presumably easiest to take care of with just Razorpetals, this is a lot like the other legendary where it also requires you to potentially hoard petals while waiting for the right time to strike. Since the drawing ability for the class isn't the best petals will probably end up being the main way to work around Bloom. Outside of the ideal scenario it's way overcosted, so once you draw it you end up working to make sure its not a dead card. I'd suggest a tweak so that it has a minor effect on its own with a more powerful Bloom effect if you can get everything to line up, but that could get wordy.
Riverbound Cleaver: So my first thought is that this is Fatecleaver outside of its unique Arena-exclusive setting, and I don't think one more mana is enough to justify two copies being added to a deck. This essentially gives the potential for four Flik Skyshivs each game! Maybe if you limit it to all other copies currently in play?
@Artimex723
It sounds like you'll be reworking some of the other cards, but with regards to Tenris, what about the other Classic class legendaries would you consider weak? In general, your Classic legendary should be something thematic with your class that either functions as a win condition on its own (or can support the win condition for the deck), or at least needs to be dealt with immediately.
Chucking out some ideas I have for now. I will get some feedback done for others tonight when I get the Sub topic up.
Last set, I focused on bursts of play and weapons. Here, I still have a bit of that, but will now branch into making wide boards (something I started in the Basic set), and copying. Transform is still a flavour decision that I will try to implement.
I need help naming the epic spell, if the concept is fine.
Hi everyone! This is part 2 of the Bloodburner Initiate set. Last week we saw Hero Power synergies and Dragons. This week i'm introducing card generation mechanics (as hinted by a card in the last week) and some more spells, both offensive and defensive. Gotta get some healing in a class that keeps hurting itself every turn right?
The cards:
The challenge card is, well any self damaging card, but i designed Fire Rain specifically for this. It lets you activate Fresh Blood this next turn without paying mana.
Will only give notes on cards I think have problems.
Inquisitive Youngling needs to specify cost.
I also think Mount Up is particularly weak.
Fortelling > Foretelling
Primordial Winds is fine, but you don't have very much support for it. When Aranasi Broodmother was released, so was Plot Twist and Fel Lord Betrug.
Carring > Caring
Cloaked Raven, check to see if permanent Stealth will make any existing Beasts broken. (I didn't check, just reminding you to do so)
Living Rose is too good. It's 2 mana, add a Razorpetal and deal 2 damage on a 2/1 body.
Jadebark Dragon seems a lot harder to make use of compared to Dragoncaster. You also don't really have that many expensive spells in the first place. (I even took a look in your Basic Set to confirm this)
A large portion of your Set focuses on Spell Damage (10/20). Rarely are specific archetypes so heavily pushed. If you recall, Hearthstone devs only wanted to focus on very broad, general playstyles. "Minions dying", was one, and "demons" was another.
I also feel like some of your cards are too similar to ones used by control Warlock: Vine Lash is similar to Dark Skies, Rampant Growth is similar to Abyssal Summoner. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, just something for you to note.
Finally, try to balance Thalia against C'Thun. Getting a big C'Thun usually meant sacrificing tempo. Does your class sacrifice something in order to build up a huge Thalia?
@Anatomy_of_Time I'd go with the second version. While the spell damage one I like it even more, I have to admit you have plenty of spell damage synergy already.
@SideItem Go for the 1-drop, definitively. Also, I like the idea of 0 damage spells.
@McF4rston I like the balance of most cards, although I find kind of sad Knife Artist realistically works only on Kunais, as it leaves your other weapons restricted to other combos. Is it possible that Rising Dragon Fist is kind of undercosted? I mean, for 2 mana you have The Black Knight's battlecry, but then you can play it mulltiple times, transformed into supercheap Assassinate. It's true tho, this class doesnt have that many strong removal, besides Bamf! so that may mean you plan this to be niinja's safety belt. By the way, you like Gift of the Lotus as name for the epic spell?
@Noah_McGrath I like the set in general... but Incinerate I find it pretty weak. Compared to Shadowbolt this does 1 more damage but can't be used as removal unless you want to take a gazillion damage. It's true tho, this set has quite a lot of Lifesteal, so maybe is intended to work that way.
I've been starting to tinker with my class... last season I've been working on secret synergy, introducing Narrative, and some small synergy on minions and hand stuff. This one, while also having some secrets, it's mostly consisting on more Narratives, spell and minion synergies... any thoughts on these?
As for my challenge, I thought on this card, wich I balanced based on Underbelly Fence.
And, for the rest of the set...
IMPORTANT: I already detected possible wording mistakes, but can't fix them right now. Monstrous Codex might need to be reworded as "if you cast another spell". The Hero of Old is suppoused to buff your other minions, not himself. By the way, the more I think about Climax, the more awkward I feel about it... is this spell too unfair to play against? If else, should I try a different concept, or can be balanced in interesting way?
Thanks for your attention.
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Have Graveyard Witch cast the lowest cost spell you have played this game with spell damage, that would give it synergy with Blood Bolt.
Thanks to everyone for your feedback, here are my revisions and a new card (Clear Waters felt wierd to me and it's a bit too wording imo) :
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The first version was a bit of a mess and the similarities with New Brood (from the first half of the Pioneer Set) made it confusing. I want it to be a flavorfull1-cost Discover Spell like many classes have.
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Straight up buff which yeah was needed as feedback pointed out. I thought about making it a Channel card but I decided against it. I already have 7 cards with the keyword and explored it quite well imo last phase so I don't think it will be a part of this phase.
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So Cloaked Raven was a bit wierd. Stealth isn't a core keyword for the Primalist and it might cause many exploits. The new version is not a Beast itself but it pushes the Token playstyle and it's very simple, which is important to me as I often overcomplicate things.
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Okay so I considered the arguments from @Anatomy_of_Time and I would agree that 5 mana draw 3 would be a bit weak. So I went to 5 mana draw 4 but with a restriction. It also builds on having multiple minions with the same tribe. The only thing I'm not sure about is if it should be this version or reversed : draw 3 and if you have " minions with the same tribe draw one more. I don't want it to be completely useless when you don't meet the requirement but still push players to meet said requirement. Toughts ?
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While the first version wasn't bad, it was indeed swingy and had no support. I tried to make it both simpler and more interesting. I quite like it. I tried a version that would give your minions Windfury but it seemed a bit too much for one card.
So this new card is an attempt to fit this week's challenge. The idea is to give the Primalist a new tribe to play with without printing a dozen new cards. It also synergies well with Channel as is allows for combinations impossible otherwise and let's the player dump a bunch of minions before buffing them with a Channel card. What do you think ?
Rest of the set :
Reviews :
@Anatomy_of_Time
I like your deck disruption stuff but Prima seems a bit wierd. The stats are just okay and the effect isn't really that useful. Sure most of these spells will be Razorpetals but not always. I suggest you rework your first version but as a Battlecry or make the second version more useful. Maybe you could make it fill the opponent hand (with Razorpetals ?) to add mill potential.
Hand size cards and the support they get are cool and work well with you keyword.
I'm a bit on the fence with you spell damage improved spells. Both look very powerful, even with Spell Damage +1. I think they should cost more.
@Artimex723
Bashees are a nice soft cycle of cards. Your secrets are cool I think. I like your new Blood Bolt. Why doesn't Tenris summon Vampyrs ? It seems to me like it would fit the token archetype of this tribe and open up synergies as well as being thematic.
@Sidletem
I still think that Fun with Portals is a problem. I think you should have it cost 2 like Battle Rage. The thing is, 1 mana draw 1 is already strong, but with you class' access to Spell Damage it can become crazy really fast. I think I already talked about the rest of your set last phase, it's still quite good.
I like Tinker Rocker and Dual Sheller #2 best. The Hero Power already generates Vents so I don't like the idea of filling the hand even more. Bonus Attack is better. Still, you might want to downgrade the durability to 2. The thing is, a 4/3 weapon is already 12 damage and then is only grows... I think you should assume that, against most decks, damaging 2 enemy minions each turn can be done consistently. Maybe change the text to "for each enemy damaged this turn" to make it a bit easier to trigger and balance around that.
@McF4rtson
Solid cards. Kan-ri is cool but I'd like to see a more flashy payoff after dumping so many cards. Rising Dragon Fist might be a little anoying with all the coping options in you class. Maybe 3 mana ? You Epic spell could be called "We are the Lotus" or "Face of the Lotus". I'd love to see the rest of you cards, especially a third Palm Arts weapon.
@Noah_McGrath
While I like your keyword, I think you should try to use it by itself and drop the Battlecry. Simplicity is key in design and it seems to me that cards with two or three distinct effects are often too complicated for Hearthstone.
Flyn the Reckless is so cool but I don't really see the payoff. Sure you have a few high-cost cards but they are mostly board whips that cost less than 7 and a lot of them already cost Health. I don't realy know how you can make it work. Maybe a few mid-cost spells that can assemble an OTK ? Paying Health instead of Mana is only good if you can win that very turn imo when you already have 7 mana to work with.
@MvonTzeskagrad
See Tertiary Character is exactly the kind of card that makes me hesitant with your keyword. Without the effect, it's underwhelming, with it it's quite broken being a 0 Mana 3/2 with your Hero Power's effect. I think you should try something like Embiggen over cost reduction to trigger Narrative. Heroic Sidekick has the same problem but worse. It's also not really in the spirit of the challenge as it's more an alternate Narrative and not a synergy card.
Living Knowledge sounds very swingy and needs too much setup in my opinion. Light Reading should have a condition to be added back to your hand, otherwise it's very much broken. Narrative ?
Netherlight Scrollkeeper fulfills the challenge but like it the mot boring way possible. My suggestion is instead that it shuffles the cost of you cards.
Climax is fine I think. It's basicaly a Twisting Nether with some burst on top. Maybe limiting it to enemies could work ?
Knife Artist is basically saying "You can either do one of four things: 1) swing with Kunai and pass, swing with Kunai, 2) equip another one of your stored-up Kunais and swing again, 3) swing with Kunai and equip another weapon from hand and swing, 4) immediately equip another weapon and swing twice. So it is more than possible to use her with other weapons.
Rising Dragon Fist, I have less spell-copying than minion-copying, generally speaking. I'll keep an eye out for other feedback but from what others are saying, so far, maybe 3 mana... but then it's rather weak at first.
Gift of the Lotus is good (as is all the other suggestions from others).
On to your cards:
So, Darkflame Tome, how easy is it to abuse with Malygos, do you think? Two of these with Maly is 28.
Heroic Sidequick > Sidekick. Also suggesting a 2/2 body.
I think Climax is generally fine. It's not good against tall boards, and against aggro, you likely will not make it to turn 9.
At this point, I must ask. Where are you getting your card art? It seems to be from another game, from what I can tell.
Power level between Living Rose and
Awoken's Rail SpikeJadebark Staff seems to be pretty drastic. Maybe make Living Rose easier to do?You can stand to give Prima more stats since her card text is technically a negative.
Foretelling, I reckon draw 3, draw 2 more, or 2 and 3.
Raven's Eye, pretty weak.
Primordial Wind, do you have Spell Damage support? If not, can go to 6 mana.
Twisted Bargain... hm. Honestly pretty hard to balance. I suppose it's ok...? Maybe wait for more feedback.
Okay so I made a few changes based on feedback. Twisted Bargain felt wierd from the get go nd I managed to find a better idea so here goes :
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Previous versions :
Raven's Eye I pushed is a more token direction, making it similar to Duskbat.
Primordial Wind went through so many iterations... I'm not sure which version is the most flavorful and interesting. I like the last one but I'm not sure.
Foretelling I like both versions and I don't know which one is best. The first really encourages to meet the requirement but can be kinda dead, which led me to the second version but then I fear it's a bit too strong without meeting the requirement.
Identity Crisis is my way to tackle this week's challenge. It's removal with the damage and the change of tribe that can be exploited with something like Hungry Crab but also a way to give one of your minions all tribes and power-up Channel effects. The name is a bit on-the-nose so I might change it to "Amalgam Bolt" or something.
Identity Crisis is perfect as-is. Glad you took my suggestion and gave it excellent flavour. On-the-nose names, punny names, names with references, those are the best kind of card names.
@Klipce I aggree, Identity Crisis is just perfect. Also, I wasn't friend of giving your class demon synergy in the Pioneer set. That would have worked better as an expansion theme in an expansion with demons.
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Haha I think this is about the exact opposite of my process! I'll spend a bunch of time getting my card text right, then spend about 3x that amount trying to cram the square peg of mechanics into the round hole of whatever art I can cobble together. Google images 'similar images' feature gets a workout from me.
Agree with the others, you nailed Identity Crisis in one.
Foretelling should be draw 3 with the potential for an extra card. As mentioned previously, "Draw 3" is worth about 4.5 mana, "Draw 4" is worth about 6. Foretelling drawing 3 on its own means its not ideal, but still playable if you topdeck it. Then if you work to get the conditions right you get a bonus upside. If the baseline is draw 1 then it becomes essentially a dead card unless you can assemble the right board, which is more frustrating.
Primordial Wind might have been one tweak too far. I get you're trying to push Channel farther, but by tying this to having a board full of the same tribe it either becomes a dead card or a heavy win-more card. The 6-Cost "Deal 1 damage thrice" version is balanced and simple. If you want to stick with the Channel version, I'd suggest a slight wording tweak. When a spell 'gives' a minion something it means it becomes part of the minion's text, so saying you're giving a minion "deal 1 damage to all enemies" feels weird since there's no trigger.
I'd suggest "Channel: Give a minion Windfury, then deal 1 damage to all enemies." That separates it out into giving the minion (and all others with the same tribe) Windfury, and then separately dealing 1 damage to all enemies (once for that minion, then repeating again for all others with the same tribe).