So, i had this in my mind last night, i liked the start of game mechanic but it needed a downside Stats and cost of the cards are random and all the same, also i used baku but the idea is on the text
It also could be a neutral card, but with the effect depending on the class you're playing so you can play Wyrmrest Purifier to avoid the Downside Share your opinions!
Don't think a single one of those cards would see play. 8 mana 4/7 is super under statted, plus if you draw it, it basically undoes whatever effect it had. Seems really, really, bad.
Edit: Rereading it, didn't see that stats were randomized, I think they would all have to be super small mana costed minions to see play, and even then, the downside is so much larger then the upside that they wouldn't see play.
Also Wyrmrest purifier is a terrible card, and wouldn't be drawn sometimes before you draw the card.
this must be the worst card in hs history. So I put a 8 Mana 4/7 in my Deck to gain the benefit of a Hero Power? And as soon as I draw this Minion i lose the Game? LUL
this must be the worst card in hs history. So I put a 8 Mana 4/7 in my Deck to gain the benefit of a Hero Power? And as soon as I draw this Minion i lose the Game? LUL
can you share a non-toxic opinion and propose a change of any of its versions?
So what u wanna say with this instead? I dont get it. Whats the point then?
So I'll ignore the Minion ok. So now i have a minion that at the start of turn it gives me a minor effect like lets take Pally 2 1/1's its worth like 1,5 Mana and as soon as i draw this card it destroys my board which can backfire 100 times harder than the 1,5 mana justifies. A part of this i dont have any control over when this effect happens. If i drew it in the wrong moment i lose the game straight up. and that for haviong 1,5 mana of value at the start of the Game?
So what u wanna say with this instead? I dont get it. Whats the point then?
So I'll ignore the Minion ok. So now i have a minion that at the start of turn it gives me a minor effect like lets take Pally 2 1/1's its worth like 1,5 Mana and as soon as i draw this card it destroys my board which can backfire 100 times harder than the 1,5 mana justifies. A part of this i dont have any control over when this effect happens. If i drew it in the wrong moment i lose the game straight up. and that for haviong 1,5 mana of value at the start of the Game?
this is not the salty thread, if you are angry because you lose a game dont come here bro
There’s several design issues with this. The balance fluctuates wildly, with some being absolute trash, like the Hunter and Mage versions, some are so awful they would never ever see any play at all, like the Rogue one (Giving the enemy hero Stealth prevents them from being targeted until they attack. That means you lose, as you can’t target the enemy hero). I like the concept though, double sided start of game effects have been suggested for a while.
??? wtf is wrong with u? How can u read Anger ot of this? I JUST DONT GET THE IDEA BEHIND UR CARD! is it so hard to understand? Could u make some valid arguments why i should put a card in my deck to get a minor effect which later on backfires me into losing the Game?
Fuck ppl are Insane. If u dont want to explain urself dont post this shit. if u felt emotionally attacked beacuse someone critzice ur card dont post it. But stop acting like a pussy
So what u wanna say with this instead? I dont get it. Whats the point then?
So I'll ignore the Minion ok. So now i have a minion that at the start of turn it gives me a minor effect like lets take Pally 2 1/1's its worth like 1,5 Mana and as soon as i draw this card it destroys my board which can backfire 100 times harder than the 1,5 mana justifies. A part of this i dont have any control over when this effect happens. If i drew it in the wrong moment i lose the game straight up. and that for haviong 1,5 mana of value at the start of the Game?
this is not the salty thread, if you are angry because you lose a game dont come here bro
he is not salty, just making his point, i also think the downsides of most of them are extreme compared to the minus effect given, like there is no point in dealing only two damage at the beggining of the game when at any point you are going to fully heal him, plus the stats are not also very good, in my opinion, give them a better start of the game effect, like a powerful one because none of them are nothing too serious, or change that down sides or just quit it at all because the body itself its weak. but it is my opinion, dont get mad at anybody because they give their opinion, yourself asked for it at the end of the post!
So, i had this in my mind last night, i liked the start of game mechanic but it needed a downside Stats and cost of the cards are random and all the same, also i used baku but the idea is on the text
It also could be a neutral card, but with the effect depending on the class you're playing so you can play Wyrmrest Purifier to avoid the Downside Share your opinions!
Rogue- The way it is worded, their hero gains stealth as well, and has no end clause. Meaning when you draw this you can basically never kill your opponent unless they did of fatigue. Terrible.
Mage- Payoff is absolutely not worth it. You get to cheat a couple things out, but then you draw this guy who himself is not only a dead card, but also has a horrific downside.
Shaman- If this just gives you permanent spell damage +1 all game, then this is decent. Control shaman doesn't care about killing the enemy with spells, just utilizing it as board control anyways. This is the only viable one you made.
Demon Hunter- Terrible. Such a small upside for a game losing downside. Also, demon hunter draws, a lot. You're drawing this fast and then you lose for what payoff? Some minor early board control?
Hunter- Oh my god bad. The ONLY way around this is to have it offered with tracking and discard it, but again at what payoff? 2 damage? Doesn't warrant it whatsoever.
Paladin- Also terrible. Tokens get eaten alive by hero powers and then you just have this game losing bomb ticking in your deck.
Druid- It's okay. One of the better ones as the coin is useful early and this is the only one that actually has next to no bad effect late game. The body is terrible though, like all of them.
Warlock- Not a great upside, not a terrible downside, which leaves the card itself. Which is terrible.
Warrior. Starting the game at 35 doesnt offset a potential huge hit later and again a terrible minion.
Priest- Perhaps the worst one next to hunter and demon hunter. You just straight up lose so often. Timewalk your opponent to get a random card that likely doesn't synergize with anything you're doing.
As for suggesting changes, I can't. They need complete reworks, and who knows what they would be to be "balanced." But these are all unplayable save MAYBE the shaman one for permanent spell damage in a niche control shaman.
So, i had this in my mind last night, i liked the start of game mechanic but it needed a downside Stats and cost of the cards are random and all the same, also i used baku but the idea is on the text
It also could be a neutral card, but with the effect depending on the class you're playing so you can play Wyrmrest Purifier to avoid the Downside Share your opinions!
Rogue- The way it is worded, their hero gains stealth as well, and has no end clause. Meaning when you draw this you can basically never kill your opponent unless they did of fatigue. Terrible.
Mage- Payoff is absolutely not worth it. You get to cheat a couple things out, but then you draw this guy who himself is not only a dead card, but also has a horrific downside.
Shaman- If this just gives you permanent spell damage +1 all game, then this is decent. Control shaman doesn't care about killing the enemy with spells, just utilizing it as board control anyways. This is the only viable one you made.
Demon Hunter- Terrible. Such a small upside for a game losing downside. Also, demon hunter draws, a lot. You're drawing this fast and then you lose for what payoff? Some minor early board control?
Hunter- Oh my god bad. The ONLY way around this is to have it offered with tracking and discard it, but again at what payoff? 2 damage? Doesn't warrant it whatsoever.
Paladin- Also terrible. Tokens get eaten alive by hero powers and then you just have this game losing bomb ticking in your deck.
Druid- It's okay. One of the better ones as the coin is useful early and this is the only one that actually has next to no bad effect late game. The body is terrible though, like all of them.
Warlock- Not a great upside, not a terrible downside, which leaves the card itself. Which is terrible.
Warrior. Starting the game at 35 doesnt offset a potential huge hit later and again a terrible minion.
Priest- Perhaps the worst one next to hunter and demon hunter. You just straight up lose so often. Timewalk your opponent to get a random card that likely doesn't synergize with anything you're doing.
As for suggesting changes, I can't. They need complete reworks, and who knows what they would be to be "balanced." But these are all unplayable save MAYBE the shaman one for permanent spell damage in a niche control shaman.
appreciate your non-toxic opinion, i also think that i made some bads versions but also there a couple that are very good, like the druid one warlock version i believe can be powerfull on zoo also i have to say again, stats and cost are not the point, all can be changed, but i just wanted to show the idea of start of the game mechanic with a downside and how they can be, of course it need changes, and i would like to see how you people will design these types of cards
Druid one is decent, not great, but decent. Getting a minion a turn earlier can be quite good, and the downside isn’t that big of a deal. Why would Warlock want to risk discarding something important when they could just wait a turn and tap? I feel like the upsides tend to be around the same power level, but the downsides vary like crazy. Dealing two damage to the enemy is about as good as adding a coin to your hand or drawing a card or summoning two 1/1s, but discarding a card/losing a mana crystal is on a completely different level than fully healing your opponent or destroying your board.
Maybe something like this? {x} would vary depending on the class, and be something to counteract the hero power. For Paladin, it might be “Give a random friendly minion -1/-1. For Druid it might be “Restore 1 health to the opponent. Deal 1 damage to your Hero. For Hunter it could be “Restore 2 health to the opponent’s Hero.”
I think this would be a lot more balanced than semi-random effects, with the benefits and negatives outweighing each other.
I don't think start of game should ever be printed unless it's something like Prince Malchezaar where it isn't actually beneficial. Getting any specific advantage every single game lets decks build around that super hard, and the result is decks that are insanely consistent and repetitive to play against. Genn and Baku created decks that pretty much did the same thing every game almost without fail. It sucked. These cards you're suggesting would do the same thing, but they'd have a random chance to lose the game for whoever plays them if you topdeck them at the wrong time.
My overall feedback is that "start of game" is a toxic mechanic and you shouldn't try to fix it. I don't think it can be done. The cards specifically are all over the place. I think most of them are very strong in terms of power level. The only ones I see as bad are the ones that basically say "lose the game" on them and even those I'd be wary of. Some of them you could build a deck where the downside matters very little and it just becomes a free benefit.
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So, i had this in my mind last night, i liked the start of game mechanic but it needed a downside
Stats and cost of the cards are random and all the same, also i used baku but the idea is on the text
It also could be a neutral card, but with the effect depending on the class you're playing so you can play Wyrmrest Purifier to avoid the Downside
Share your opinions!
Don't think a single one of those cards would see play. 8 mana 4/7 is super under statted, plus if you draw it, it basically undoes whatever effect it had. Seems really, really, bad.
Edit: Rereading it, didn't see that stats were randomized, I think they would all have to be super small mana costed minions to see play, and even then, the downside is so much larger then the upside that they wouldn't see play.
Also Wyrmrest purifier is a terrible card, and wouldn't be drawn sometimes before you draw the card.
this must be the worst card in hs history. So I put a 8 Mana 4/7 in my Deck to gain the benefit of a Hero Power? And as soon as I draw this Minion i lose the Game? LUL
i see you dont get that the point of the cards is the effect not his mana cost or his stats, ignore that, i made those random but are not important
can you share a non-toxic opinion and propose a change of any of its versions?
So what u wanna say with this instead? I dont get it. Whats the point then?
So I'll ignore the Minion ok. So now i have a minion that at the start of turn it gives me a minor effect like lets take Pally 2 1/1's its worth like 1,5 Mana and as soon as i draw this card it destroys my board which can backfire 100 times harder than the 1,5 mana justifies. A part of this i dont have any control over when this effect happens. If i drew it in the wrong moment i lose the game straight up. and that for haviong 1,5 mana of value at the start of the Game?
this is not the salty thread, if you are angry because you lose a game dont come here bro
There’s several design issues with this. The balance fluctuates wildly, with some being absolute trash, like the Hunter and Mage versions, some are so awful they would never ever see any play at all, like the Rogue one (Giving the enemy hero Stealth prevents them from being targeted until they attack. That means you lose, as you can’t target the enemy hero). I like the concept though, double sided start of game effects have been suggested for a while.
??? wtf is wrong with u? How can u read Anger ot of this? I JUST DONT GET THE IDEA BEHIND UR CARD! is it so hard to understand? Could u make some valid arguments why i should put a card in my deck to get a minor effect which later on backfires me into losing the Game?
Fuck ppl are Insane. If u dont want to explain urself dont post this shit. if u felt emotionally attacked beacuse someone critzice ur card dont post it. But stop acting like a pussy
he is not salty, just making his point, i also think the downsides of most of them are extreme compared to the minus effect given, like there is no point in dealing only two damage at the beggining of the game when at any point you are going to fully heal him, plus the stats are not also very good, in my opinion, give them a better start of the game effect, like a powerful one because none of them are nothing too serious, or change that down sides or just quit it at all because the body itself its weak. but it is my opinion, dont get mad at anybody because they give their opinion, yourself asked for it at the end of the post!
Rogue- The way it is worded, their hero gains stealth as well, and has no end clause. Meaning when you draw this you can basically never kill your opponent unless they did of fatigue. Terrible.
Mage- Payoff is absolutely not worth it. You get to cheat a couple things out, but then you draw this guy who himself is not only a dead card, but also has a horrific downside.
Shaman- If this just gives you permanent spell damage +1 all game, then this is decent. Control shaman doesn't care about killing the enemy with spells, just utilizing it as board control anyways. This is the only viable one you made.
Demon Hunter- Terrible. Such a small upside for a game losing downside. Also, demon hunter draws, a lot. You're drawing this fast and then you lose for what payoff? Some minor early board control?
Hunter- Oh my god bad. The ONLY way around this is to have it offered with tracking and discard it, but again at what payoff? 2 damage? Doesn't warrant it whatsoever.
Paladin- Also terrible. Tokens get eaten alive by hero powers and then you just have this game losing bomb ticking in your deck.
Druid- It's okay. One of the better ones as the coin is useful early and this is the only one that actually has next to no bad effect late game. The body is terrible though, like all of them.
Warlock- Not a great upside, not a terrible downside, which leaves the card itself. Which is terrible.
Warrior. Starting the game at 35 doesnt offset a potential huge hit later and again a terrible minion.
Priest- Perhaps the worst one next to hunter and demon hunter. You just straight up lose so often. Timewalk your opponent to get a random card that likely doesn't synergize with anything you're doing.
As for suggesting changes, I can't. They need complete reworks, and who knows what they would be to be "balanced." But these are all unplayable save MAYBE the shaman one for permanent spell damage in a niche control shaman.
appreciate your non-toxic opinion, i also think that i made some bads versions but also there a couple that are very good, like the druid one
warlock version i believe can be powerfull on zoo
also i have to say again, stats and cost are not the point, all can be changed, but i just wanted to show the idea of start of the game mechanic with a downside and how they can be, of course it need changes, and i would like to see how you people will design these types of cards
Enough of the bickering and personal attacks. Either discuss the cards in a constructive manner, from both sides, or move on with your day.
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
I guess you would want to hard mulligan for these cards every game.
Druid one is decent, not great, but decent. Getting a minion a turn earlier can be quite good, and the downside isn’t that big of a deal. Why would Warlock want to risk discarding something important when they could just wait a turn and tap? I feel like the upsides tend to be around the same power level, but the downsides vary like crazy. Dealing two damage to the enemy is about as good as adding a coin to your hand or drawing a card or summoning two 1/1s, but discarding a card/losing a mana crystal is on a completely different level than fully healing your opponent or destroying your board.
Maybe something like this? {x} would vary depending on the class, and be something to counteract the hero power. For Paladin, it might be “Give a random friendly minion -1/-1. For Druid it might be “Restore 1 health to the opponent. Deal 1 damage to your Hero. For Hunter it could be “Restore 2 health to the opponent’s Hero.”
I think this would be a lot more balanced than semi-random effects, with the benefits and negatives outweighing each other.
I don't think start of game should ever be printed unless it's something like Prince Malchezaar where it isn't actually beneficial. Getting any specific advantage every single game lets decks build around that super hard, and the result is decks that are insanely consistent and repetitive to play against. Genn and Baku created decks that pretty much did the same thing every game almost without fail. It sucked. These cards you're suggesting would do the same thing, but they'd have a random chance to lose the game for whoever plays them if you topdeck them at the wrong time.
My overall feedback is that "start of game" is a toxic mechanic and you shouldn't try to fix it. I don't think it can be done. The cards specifically are all over the place. I think most of them are very strong in terms of power level. The only ones I see as bad are the ones that basically say "lose the game" on them and even those I'd be wary of. Some of them you could build a deck where the downside matters very little and it just becomes a free benefit.