I really don’t think your hero power should destroy a friendly minion. That’s a level of complexity well above all other hero powers. But if your original submission has it, I guess it’s required?
An accurate assessment. Omerqu may edit their hero power to make balance changes, but the general effect has been set in stone at this point. This is the same situation as with MurderyUnicorn: editing Yes, replacing No.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
Come on, just let the kid change his freakin hero power. The restrictions already made sure I don't participate. Why should the rules be so much more important than the people who want to be part of this? You wrote the restrictions are there so that people make even better classes. So why not subscribe to that even more? Ideas and concepts need time to evolve. How can we improve our classes if we can't change things? You give your submission and if enough people like it, you pass. At a certain point you can't change your submission, but in between phases we should be able to change and improve nearly everything. If the class is then even better at the time of submitting, is this not what we want? Let the voters decide.
This is not a serious competition. There is no prize money or anything. Think most just want to participate, do and show what they can and not feel left out. At least this is how I feel. Allow them to do what they can do and not tell them so many things they can't do. To be strict is not fun for you (at least I hope not) because of people that object and not fun for the competitors because they might not be able to abide in all ways directly. To push rules for the sake of the rules doesn't make sense. If it's about being fair to the other competitors, you could just ask them if they think it's ok or not instead of dimissing somebody and just take that they resign or feel bad about what they are submitting.
Giving someone an extra two weeks to come up with their entire class design - which changing your Hero Power entirely is doing - is not fair on the other competitors who managed to come up with their designs in that original two weeks. We already allow people to completely change the cards they show off in Phase I, even to the point of them never showing up again - the only things that must be kept the same are the Hero, Hero Power and any exclusive keywords, and both the Hero Power and keywords can receive balancing tweaks at any point in the competition.
It's also not fair to ask the other competitors to make that decision - they're obligated to say yes, because if they say no, they look like the bad guy who is ruthlessly trying to have a better chance in the competition. As someone who is deliberately not taking part in the competition in order to ensure that the extra challenges don't unfairly advantage or disadvantage any competitors, it is my place to make these sorts of decisions.
I don't appreciate you trying to characterise us as being deliberately mean or vindictive because we're enforcing the rules of the competition.
As if I want to picture you as mean or anything like that. I know you don't want to be mean. I just want to show you what's at the other side of the stick. Being on the receiving end of just being told "No" when you have an issue like that and have already invested a lot of time and creative effort feels very mean. You see something that's not in line with the rules and say "No" but it would have been nice to read that I have a point and you understand where I'm coming from, maybe try to find a compromise. Apart from that I think you guys do a really good job honestly. And I appreciate it definitely.
That competitors feel obligated to say yes because they have some thought in the back of their head may not be a bad thing. Or is there a different reason to not want somebody else to pass? If you don't want them to pass that might come from a garstly place in your head and it's good you feel bad about it. Had the same experience last time. Think I told thepowrofcheese that he shouldn't do something because somebody else did it. And felt really bad about it later. Because it was just a stingy cunt move.
Now I just have more respect for the creative effort and time somebody invested than some rule that wouldn't hurt anybody being stretched a bit. I don't understand why not handle it more loosely in this instance. There would literally nothing happen except somebody feeling better about what they are doing. Probably would have been nice to not take the rules too seriously and find some way for you to participate aswell.
When you make rules, it's good when people object if they feel it's right, I think. But it's hard to do that when the most important thing to you is to submit your work. I'm out, so I'll gladly waste more of your time arguing to get my point across.
And yes I think you should be more loose about it. You didn't announce the restrictions before the competition and no where I read what you wrote here about what you have to keep and what you can change. It's not clear. So either make it super precise or be more open for arguing and finding a way to compromise. The competitors are fallible, so are you guys. Rules give a necessary frame but in the occasional personal cases I would always try to not cut somebody off (especially if the former voting phase didn't even count).
I've got a little time, let's do a few reviews! My near-final submission is on the previous page, post 233, if anyone wants to take a look!.
Omerque - The Angel
There's a couple issues with your class that could pose a problem. First the Hero Power. Like I said already, it's too complex, with a condition and what would have to be a powerful effect. I would change it to something like 'Destroy a friendly minion to give your hero +4 Health' or '+3 Attack this turn' or something. I think making your Hero Power this complex was a mistake, but assuming it can't be changed too much, you'll need to find a good balance.
I'll go through your cards, but overall, there's a lot of clashing themes. Buffs and self sacrifice. 0-mana summons that would be too strong with this Hero Power. Lots of grammar issues. No cards that cost more than 3. I think you need to rework a few of these to be more cohesive, and you'll need some higher cost cards. Think, what kinds of things will your class want to do mid- and end-game? Are you sacrificing minions to make a combo? Buffing many small minions into a big threat? With your current cards, I don't know what your class is going to 'do' besides kill your own dudes.
The hero and Hero Power need different art.
Angelic Stomp - Kinda redundant with your Hero Power as is. Needs a period.
Prayer - It's Competitive Spirit but your opponent knows about it. But I guess its balanced.
Under My Wings - Great card, great art. My favorite card of your set, and one of my favorites of the competition so far.
Holy Defenders - Two of the tokens have taunt, two of them do some healing. Consider changing one of them and watch the punctuation again.
Cleansing Sword - Too weak if it can't attack heroes. You could give it another attack or something.
Counter Attack - First, watch the grammar. Second, this might be too complex for Basic, and certainly too strong for a 0 cost card.
Break Defense - Odd syntax. Neat card but too niche for Basic. It's also an aggressive card in your otherwise very defensive-minded class. Consider replacing this.
Live Shields - No tokens yet. Ok card, arguably balanced, but way too good with the current Hero Power.
White Queen - Cool card.
Possessed By Light - Weird name for a minion, maybe change it to 'Light Possessed' or something. "0-Cost" needs the hyphen.
Honestly, I think you need to do some more work before you submit. You're close, but I don't have a feel for what your Angel class wants to be, other than 'Under My Wings' which I think is a great card.
Laurendor - The Botanist
When you first posted your class, I honestly didn't think it would last long. I thought it was an odd idea that was too close to Druid or Rogue and you wouldn't have a clear, coherent class.
I was completely wrong.
Your class has improved significantly with every post you've made, and I've come to really like it. Yes, having Herb minions is a bit odd imo, but it fits so well with your themes. You literally want to plant a garden on your side of the board, a garden that grows and helps your other minions and uproots your opponent. I love it.
The new Evergrowth posted by Noah_McGrath is excellent. It separates you from Jades and really shows how your cards will work together. I don't have any real criticisms: others have pointed out potentially overpowered cards and you fixed or replaced them.
My only request is that you have some kind of sacrifice effect in future sets. For one, it fits well with weeding out sick or dying plants for your garden's health. Two, your class has a huge weakness to one card: Mass Dispel. I would hate for your class to be useless once you have a board of 0-attack, silenced plants. I don't know what you plan for your class going forward, but that's one thing to keep in mind.
Overall, the Botanist looks great! Keep up the good work!
Noah_McGraph - The Bloodburner
I don't really have a lot of feedback for you that you haven't already heard. Your set is great. Consistent, cool cards some varied effects, and lots of triggers for your keyword.
Be wary of Sanguine Rune. It's a really cool card, but it might be broken if your class has too much face damage or powerful spells (like Melt, which imo could cost 3 if not for copying effects). Likewise, be careful with your Legendary spell in Boomsday! Getting 3 copies of it can be quite dangerous.
I agree with the others that Crystallize Blood is the more balanced of your 2 cards. Dual-Casting is nice though, save that for a later set.
When you first posted your class, I honestly didn't think it would last long. I thought it was an odd idea that was too close to Druid or Rogue and you wouldn't have a clear, coherent class.
I was completely wrong.
Your class has improved significantly with every post you've made, and I've come to really like it. Yes, having Herb minions is a bit odd imo, but it fits so well with your themes. You literally want to plant a garden on your side of the board, a garden that grows and helps your other minions and uproots your opponent. I love it.
The new Evergrowth posted by Noah_McGrath is excellent. It separates you from Jades and really shows how your cards will work together. I don't have any real criticisms: others have pointed out potentially overpowered cards and you fixed or replaced them.
My only request is that you have some kind of sacrifice effect in future sets. For one, it fits well with weeding out sick or dying plants for your garden's health. Two, your class has a huge weakness to one card: Mass Dispel. I would hate for your class to be useless once you have a board of 0-attack, silenced plants. I don't know what you plan for your class going forward, but that's one thing to keep in mind.
Overall, the Botanist looks great! Keep up the good work!
Thanks a lot for your words! I’m happy that people like wht I’m trying to came out with :)
For the word Herb I know it’s odd but I wanted to be as close as possible to the herbalism profession of Warcraft.
i do have some sacrifice effect on my pocket tho, but I really need the Deathrattle to make them work. You know in WoW how you can only get some herb by gathering other herbs? That’s what i wanted to try in the future for special herb like Swiftthistle and wildwine. Also I’m thinking to change the “mutated” card into a spell that only works on herb minion -destroying them and replace them with something else-.
and I was also looking at a spell that “replant” all minion bringing them to their original stats.
So yeah I do have plan ;)
i’ll try To review some other entry later on today. From the phone is impossible lol
I understand were you're comming from. Last year, I learned about the existence of the competion when it had already started and so I couldn't participate. It was really annoying at the time and I knew that I would have to wait a whole year before I could enter the next competition.
Yes, sometimes the rules limit some people's excess to the competition and it feels bad. Sometimes you have an idea that is just out of what you are allowed to do. Sometimes you really want to go back and change what you did (could have happened to me if I had submitted my first class idea). The rules limit the things you can do, your are not entirely free to make whatever you want and it can be annoying or feel unfair.
But this is a competition, with many people taking part in it. Taking part of the competition means that you accept the rules, whatever they might be. I don't want to use a weak argument like "other people do it so you must do it", my point is that you knew you were getting into a standardized creation process and if you are not willing to adjust your ideas to the rules of said process, you shouldn't complain about being excluded. As you explained earlier, no one kicked you out of the competition, you decided to leave because you couldn't accept to abide by the rules.
It's ok, no one can force you to make a class that you don't want to do, but don't try to make the mods change the rules for you own sake. Not only would it mean that anyone can beg for the rules to be changed (and it it were the case, everyone would do it), it would also negate the effort people put in their class. Sure, it's a setback to see that your cards aren't in line with the rules but with the amount of time we are given each phase, you can come up with cool idea that work with the rules.
I can see the appeal of free creation but this competition is not about doing whatever you want. If you just want to make a class with no one telling you what to do, you can, but not here. I'm sure that you would get a lot of feedback and support if you were making a class on your own in this very forum.
I hope you undrrstand that this competition needs rules to operate (submission deadlines for exemple) and that if you are not ok with them you don't need to participate. Not to mention that you're wasting the mods time (since you know they keep telling you the same thing) and they have a lot to do for the comp and the forum so please stop being annoying because you are frustrated.
Hope you have a good day (or night, what do I know) and you can overcome your frustration.
For the Hero Power why don't you make it reduce the Health by 1 to a random friendly and enemy minion? In the end you might get something very similar with killing 1and 1 but not as immediate.
I agreed with what as been said already, need another art for Hero and Hero Power. Honestly there are plenty of angel fantasy related images.
Prayer - It's balanced but i don't like it. It feel more like a secret to me.
Under My Wings - I do like this card, very interesting and new.
Holy Defenders - i think the token are too strong and with the name like that they feel a lot like legendaries. I would drop to +1+1 and Restore 3 Health.
Cleansing Sword - Because fo the debuff i think you can add 1 more attack.
Break Defense - To make it simple why don't you make it just remove the taunt or destroy a taunt minion?
Live Shields - Might be too strong with the Hero Power as it is.
Overall i think you are ready to submit, i like the flavour of the class and how you left space for future synergies . The only card that does;t convince me is the overclock. It looks more something for a chronomancer than a tinker...why don't you change the art to something related to ventilation, aeration area or something like that?
So I think I'm almost ready to submit. Here's how my post is looking. Any feedback is appreciated!
THE BATTLEMAGE
Battlemages are sort of a fusion between warrior and mage. They use magic to create weapons, armor, and to wreak havoc in melee combat. My particular version of battlemage slowly conjures powerful yet fragile energy weapons. Weapon combat fills the battlemage with fury, empowering their spells and minions, much like how an enraged warrior's abilities become more deadly.
Main themes: "Can't attack the turn it's equipped" on weapons, 1 durability weapons, effects that change depending on the target (not shown in basic), buffing your minion's health, small but frequent armor gain. Strengths: Versatile (has a large variety of tools at their disposal), can setup for very high power turns, excels against decks with lots of minions such as zoo decks. Weaknesses: Obvious with weapons (conjuring a weapon takes time ya know?), weapon removal, struggles to fully utilize cards against decks with few minions, takes a lot of damage triggering spellfury and has no big heals or armor gain.
Keyword: Spellfury
Spellfury changes the effect (such as a Battlecry) it's printed after on the card, usually upgrading it. It activates if your hero has done X or more damage to minions by attacking this turn. So if your hero did 5 damage, Spellfury (1) and Spellfury (5) would activate but Spellfury (8) wouldn't.It can be tricky to master as damaging minions to buff your Spellfury can lead to you not needing the upgraded effect. Due to not being able to trigger Spellfury going face, cards that summon minions for your opponent are valuable to this class. Saronite Taskmaster and Marin the Fox are good examples. Note that class keywords do not appear on basic cards.
Example Cards
Cauterize: Solid removal if your willing to take some damage. You do get less value with a better weapon so don't overdo it. You can only kill them so much after all... (unfortunately) Enchant Weapon: Fury: Your angry, your swords angry, your enemies minions are dead. It's a good time! This is an example of the classes cards that are only effective against minions, and the "Enchant Weapon:" card type that will appear occasionally. Reinvigorate: After a hard days work, taking time to relax can do wonders. However it does seem to be less effective while the enemies minions are trying to murder you. I'm frankly shocked. Summoned Battleaxe: The perfect card to show off the class at a glance. It may seem somewhat weak but it's a cheap way to trigger big spellfury cards and it has excellent synergy with weapon durability buffs (which the class has in classic). Fire Tornado: The classes signature aoe. It's quite powerful, and an example of the classes armor gain which is often a small amount added onto another effect.
Remaining Cards
Flame Bowman: Another example of the classes cards that are only effective against minions. Icecrafter: She has solid stats, and you can definitely get your monies worth out of her using windfury (which the class can get from a couple of classic cards). Frozen Fist: Having no weapon equipped is another minor card theme so this gets players used to thinking about it early.A fairly strong card as early when it's best you likely wont have a weapon. Conjure: Barriers: The class is great at conjuring armor, shields, etc, so the classe's minions are often well protected with high health! The class's weapons are a bit too complex for the average warrior to use so attack buffs aren't common. Spellspeed: Using magic induced speed, you can strike down multiple foes before they have time to react! This card is paralytically good against big boards (less chance of 'losing' a hit to face), and with spell damage.
I applaud your new take on the keyword and Hero Power. They are both more balanced and easy to understand now, and look very promising! I'm not really sold on the idea of 1-Durability weapons, but we'll see. You've laid down very clearly the characteristics of your class and that's very welcome, I'd try to distinguish yourself a bit more from Warrior though. Most of your cards could be printed for that class. Reinvigorate is really cool, and pushes the design in a different direction. Conjure: Barriers is interesting too, but I think you should provide a bit more support for it to make it more fitting. That would also help differentiate yourself from Warrior. Maybe switching out Flame Bowman for a token-generating card? Something like that. Frozen Fist is probably my favorite card, but I'd argue it should do something even when you do have a weapon. Maybe something like "Deal 3 damage to a minion. If you have a weapon equipped, Freeze your hero." or "Deal 1 damage to a minion. If you have no weapon equipped, deal 3 instead.".
Thanks for the feedback! To give you a tease on the possibilities of the 1 durability weapons, I have put one from my classic set in a spoiler below :P When it comes to the health buffs, one of the things that I think will help distinguish them oddly enough is a lack of support cards. There will be plenty of ways to buff your minions health, but unlike priest, the class can't really abuse the high health. Due to this a good amount of the health buffing cards are options of a card, or also do something else as well. I think the classic set will definitely showcase how the class differers from all other classes, so don't worry! I really like the idea of Frozen Fist freezing your hero, as if you still punch something with a giant ice glove but then your weapon is frozen. However I don't think it feels right as battlemages use fire and have efficient control over their magic. I'll think on it.
This card can really cause zoo decks to panic, they'll likely make terrible trades to try kill off their minions, but then you can just not attack! A tricky card to master playing with and against.
Edit: Just realized I should word this "After your hero attacks" or it'd trigger before the attack causing heaps of problems haha.
hey @linkblade91 i really like your class and think you've been doing a good job
Thanks :) It means a lot to hear stuff like that.
While on the subject of me, I haven't been as present as I'd like to be so apologies about that. Don't know if I can change the circumstances, but it has left me self-aware nonetheless.
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
So I've been tinkering with my Infiltrator class for quite a while now and did some playtesting. I printed some cards and played it with a friend! Look below, it's Maeiv vs Mirage! (just a mock battlefield I did for this post):
(yeah I so wanted to play my class I printed them out!)
Aside from Maiev, she did some battling against Jaina and Rexxar (no cards printed, just on paper). Results are:
Mirage had a couple of good removal and her play style is very controll-y. Her disruptive cost manipulating Hero Power did very well at the start of the game, stalling her enemies. But compared to priests and warrior, she can't live long enough because of lack of healing and armor; thus, she suffers from late game damage. She also lacks in doing burst damage to finish her enemies quickly in the late game.
I could have given her burst, but I wanted to stick with my premise of it being one of the class' weakness. I could have given her more cost manipulations, but cards with these mostly appear only in Classic. So I decided to included Value as part of Infiltrator's Win condition.
Here are the updates, and hopefully these are good enough cards before I submit it :) I playtested these and now find her competitive with a more reliable late game<3 What do you think?
Showcased Cards
REMAINING CARDS
Changes:
=====>
I needed more cards that reveal to set the Class' core mechanic. The former 1/4 didn't do much help on turn 4 either as most minion are to thick to destroy.
====>
I buffed the former card to draw two cards for 3 cost, with the drawback of destroying your weapon as well (but very unlikely to happen). As I browse through "destroy weapon" cards, this mechanic is seem added as a bonus effect to an already balanced minion. I find out theArcane Intellect lacks 1 point value, so I made my own with this bonus effect. What do you think?
====>
The former is very RNG reliant and may not be very fun to play against. I didn't want to include burst damage anyways, so I decided to add a single minion removal with a card draw. Similar to Hammer of Wrath, but with a lower cost and minion only.
====>
The refresh hero power is not that helpful, and gain 1 Armor for Infiltrator's theme is quite odd (maybe in the future it will fit). So with the class lacking a win condition, I converted it to Value generation that supports its core mechanic, reveal. Not all cards that copied are helpful, sometimes only one is helpful. This card however really boosted the class to be competitive.
==== >
Lastly, the card I thought was already a good win condition, is still lackluster and a comatose card. Even at 7 mana, it can't compete well with the Priest's Mind Control, as it is very reliant with a minion on the battlefield and should have been revealed. The DIsguise Kit however became a very helpful tool in the early game, or a solid win at the end.
I'm pretty happy with the latest change I did and had some fun with it. But I'll appreciate any comments and suggestions, especially for the showcased cards :)
Win or lose, I have my cards printed that I can play and iterate anytime :D So fun!
this are my thoughts which my be wrong so just take it as a personal feedback
I prefer the light version of the angel so i think you should go ahead with that idea. It might be hard in the future to focus only on the Holy side and stay away from Paladin an Priest but i do think it's more original than the dark angel archetype. Also Wow and blizzard in general offer you plenty of ideas about that that you might use or not in the future sets: Anara, all the angels from diablo...
Anyway, you you wanna rework the Hero Power ad make it easier and less complicated what about something like this?
Destroy a minion. Resurrect the last minion you destroyed.
Destroy a minion until the end of the turn, then resurrect it.
You still gonna kill a minion but to do it again you will have to re-summon the previous one you destroyed and that can be use on friendly or enemy minion.
You can always play with that in the future or with the other card...for example you can make a spell that block any resurrection, or reset the hero power or why not summon the minion on your side of the board instead of the opponent one. I just did a quick example to give you random idea... I do like some of you cards, you shouldn't change the all concept only to adapt the hero power.
Obviously do not follow stats, cost, names or whatsoever. Just random thought trying to be helpful :)
Other cards I've considered putting into the basic set:
Good?
Definitely still not fond of Cocktail Throw as a basic card. I like your art choices and I like the change to Lab Accident. I feel like you need more healing representation in the basic set, since none of your current basic cards represent it as a theme. Unwilling Subjects could also use a bit of a bump in power, unless there's a lot of aura buffs in the class.
Other cards I've considered putting into the basic set:
Good?
Wow, our classes are not only similar in the name, but also in several themes :_D Summoning tokens (which are also called Homunculus), tutors, buffs, hand synergy (which is not present in my Basic set, but will be in the Classic set)... I hope this doesn't backfire any of us.
Now, feedback time!
In general, your set feels too complex. I mean, none of the cards is extremly convoluted, but the whole set in general doesn't seem Basic. Maybe you could replace a couple cards by Enhanced Imp and Overgrowth, which are the simplest of them. The cards I'd move to the classic set are Apocalyptic Blight and maybe Cocktail Throw (although it's your only single target removal, so I don't know).
This is a very stupid nitpick, but I don't like the name of Patricia's Cauldron. I'd change the name for something more generic.
Already 24 entries in and there's two that didn't meet the challenges (*Facepalm*)
Question to to mod: Do you guys still use the Wild Card like every other CCC?
Also, why is so much less people voting this round? There's so much good class that didn't get the votes they should have (Bloodburner, Ringmaster, Astromancer, ahem).
And I still think the Gambler is overrated. This class's potential to high roll is so extreme because of its card generation HP.
Already 24 entries in and there's two that didn't meet the challenges (*Facepalm*)
Question to to mod: Do you guys still use the Wild Card like every other CCC?
Also, why is so much less people voting this round? There's so much good class that didn't get the votes they should have (Bloodburner, Ringmaster, Astromancer, ahem).
As long as one of those two people are not me; I don't think I could handle DQ-ing myself again DX
It's a shame about the low voting, but I was just about to say something regarding a fresh front page post regarding the Class comp; a reminder that we're under a week left or something like that. Hopefully it would help, assuming I get the okay. We haven't talked about Wild Cards.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
There's only like around 30 entries this round (2 already DQ, 2 violated the challenge and 2 more still post in this forum). The number of entries are also pretty poor since we had, what, 50 entries in phase 1?
but I was just about to say something regarding a fresh front page post regarding the Class comp; a reminder that we're under a week left or something like that. Hopefully it would help, assuming I get the okay.
If anything, I think this would just lead to more of those "get this shit off the front page" comments we got in DNAF. Remember that?
Such unjustified bullshit.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click the image to go to my custom Time Traveler class.
One idea i have for increasing the number of upvotes is requiring every participant to upvote at least one post per page. On every page in the submission topic (except for the page on which your post appeared, so you don't work against yourself), you'd have to upvote minimum one entry. There are many people who don't bother upvoting in these competitions, and the least you could do if you participate is to like someone else's work. I doubt you won't find at least one good entry in 20.
This unfortunately requires a lot of effort on the mods' side. But basically i propose transforming something which should be basic courtesy into a rule.
An accurate assessment. Omerqu may edit their hero power to make balance changes, but the general effect has been set in stone at this point. This is the same situation as with MurderyUnicorn: editing Yes, replacing No.
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
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Card Design ChampionAs if I want to picture you as mean or anything like that. I know you don't want to be mean. I just want to show you what's at the other side of the stick. Being on the receiving end of just being told "No" when you have an issue like that and have already invested a lot of time and creative effort feels very mean. You see something that's not in line with the rules and say "No" but it would have been nice to read that I have a point and you understand where I'm coming from, maybe try to find a compromise. Apart from that I think you guys do a really good job honestly. And I appreciate it definitely.
That competitors feel obligated to say yes because they have some thought in the back of their head may not be a bad thing. Or is there a different reason to not want somebody else to pass? If you don't want them to pass that might come from a garstly place in your head and it's good you feel bad about it. Had the same experience last time. Think I told thepowrofcheese that he shouldn't do something because somebody else did it. And felt really bad about it later. Because it was just a stingy cunt move.
Now I just have more respect for the creative effort and time somebody invested than some rule that wouldn't hurt anybody being stretched a bit. I don't understand why not handle it more loosely in this instance. There would literally nothing happen except somebody feeling better about what they are doing. Probably would have been nice to not take the rules too seriously and find some way for you to participate aswell.
When you make rules, it's good when people object if they feel it's right, I think. But it's hard to do that when the most important thing to you is to submit your work. I'm out, so I'll gladly waste more of your time arguing to get my point across.
And yes I think you should be more loose about it. You didn't announce the restrictions before the competition and no where I read what you wrote here about what you have to keep and what you can change. It's not clear. So either make it super precise or be more open for arguing and finding a way to compromise. The competitors are fallible, so are you guys. Rules give a necessary frame but in the occasional personal cases I would always try to not cut somebody off (especially if the former voting phase didn't even count).
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Grand ExplorerI've got a little time, let's do a few reviews! My near-final submission is on the previous page, post 233, if anyone wants to take a look!.
Omerque - The Angel
There's a couple issues with your class that could pose a problem. First the Hero Power. Like I said already, it's too complex, with a condition and what would have to be a powerful effect. I would change it to something like 'Destroy a friendly minion to give your hero +4 Health' or '+3 Attack this turn' or something. I think making your Hero Power this complex was a mistake, but assuming it can't be changed too much, you'll need to find a good balance.
I'll go through your cards, but overall, there's a lot of clashing themes. Buffs and self sacrifice. 0-mana summons that would be too strong with this Hero Power. Lots of grammar issues. No cards that cost more than 3. I think you need to rework a few of these to be more cohesive, and you'll need some higher cost cards. Think, what kinds of things will your class want to do mid- and end-game? Are you sacrificing minions to make a combo? Buffing many small minions into a big threat? With your current cards, I don't know what your class is going to 'do' besides kill your own dudes.
The hero and Hero Power need different art.
Angelic Stomp - Kinda redundant with your Hero Power as is. Needs a period.
Prayer - It's Competitive Spirit but your opponent knows about it. But I guess its balanced.
Under My Wings - Great card, great art. My favorite card of your set, and one of my favorites of the competition so far.
Holy Defenders - Two of the tokens have taunt, two of them do some healing. Consider changing one of them and watch the punctuation again.
Cleansing Sword - Too weak if it can't attack heroes. You could give it another attack or something.
Counter Attack - First, watch the grammar. Second, this might be too complex for Basic, and certainly too strong for a 0 cost card.
Break Defense - Odd syntax. Neat card but too niche for Basic. It's also an aggressive card in your otherwise very defensive-minded class. Consider replacing this.
Live Shields - No tokens yet. Ok card, arguably balanced, but way too good with the current Hero Power.
White Queen - Cool card.
Possessed By Light - Weird name for a minion, maybe change it to 'Light Possessed' or something. "0-Cost" needs the hyphen.
Honestly, I think you need to do some more work before you submit. You're close, but I don't have a feel for what your Angel class wants to be, other than 'Under My Wings' which I think is a great card.
Laurendor - The Botanist
When you first posted your class, I honestly didn't think it would last long. I thought it was an odd idea that was too close to Druid or Rogue and you wouldn't have a clear, coherent class.
I was completely wrong.
Your class has improved significantly with every post you've made, and I've come to really like it. Yes, having Herb minions is a bit odd imo, but it fits so well with your themes. You literally want to plant a garden on your side of the board, a garden that grows and helps your other minions and uproots your opponent. I love it.
The new Evergrowth posted by Noah_McGrath is excellent. It separates you from Jades and really shows how your cards will work together. I don't have any real criticisms: others have pointed out potentially overpowered cards and you fixed or replaced them.
My only request is that you have some kind of sacrifice effect in future sets. For one, it fits well with weeding out sick or dying plants for your garden's health. Two, your class has a huge weakness to one card: Mass Dispel. I would hate for your class to be useless once you have a board of 0-attack, silenced plants. I don't know what you plan for your class going forward, but that's one thing to keep in mind.
Overall, the Botanist looks great! Keep up the good work!
Noah_McGraph - The Bloodburner
I don't really have a lot of feedback for you that you haven't already heard. Your set is great. Consistent, cool cards some varied effects, and lots of triggers for your keyword.
Be wary of Sanguine Rune. It's a really cool card, but it might be broken if your class has too much face damage or powerful spells (like Melt, which imo could cost 3 if not for copying effects). Likewise, be careful with your Legendary spell in Boomsday! Getting 3 copies of it can be quite dangerous.
I agree with the others that Crystallize Blood is the more balanced of your 2 cards. Dual-Casting is nice though, save that for a later set.
Overall, looks good!
Currently working on the Tinker! K&C and WW / JUG and KotFT / Classic / Basic / Introduction
My Previous Classes: Apothecary (unfinished) / Chronomancer / Death Knight (old)
My Previous Expansions: Hallow's End
Laurendor - The Botanist
When you first posted your class, I honestly didn't think it would last long. I thought it was an odd idea that was too close to Druid or Rogue and you wouldn't have a clear, coherent class.
I was completely wrong.
Your class has improved significantly with every post you've made, and I've come to really like it. Yes, having Herb minions is a bit odd imo, but it fits so well with your themes. You literally want to plant a garden on your side of the board, a garden that grows and helps your other minions and uproots your opponent. I love it.
The new Evergrowth posted by Noah_McGrath is excellent. It separates you from Jades and really shows how your cards will work together. I don't have any real criticisms: others have pointed out potentially overpowered cards and you fixed or replaced them.
My only request is that you have some kind of sacrifice effect in future sets. For one, it fits well with weeding out sick or dying plants for your garden's health. Two, your class has a huge weakness to one card: Mass Dispel. I would hate for your class to be useless once you have a board of 0-attack, silenced plants. I don't know what you plan for your class going forward, but that's one thing to keep in mind.
Overall, the Botanist looks great! Keep up the good work!
Thanks a lot for your words! I’m happy that people like wht I’m trying to came out with :)
For the word Herb I know it’s odd but I wanted to be as close as possible to the herbalism profession of Warcraft.
i do have some sacrifice effect on my pocket tho, but I really need the Deathrattle to make them work. You know in WoW how you can only get some herb by gathering other herbs? That’s what i wanted to try in the future for special herb like Swiftthistle and wildwine. Also I’m thinking to change the “mutated” card into a spell that only works on herb minion -destroying them and replace them with something else-.
and I was also looking at a spell that “replant” all minion bringing them to their original stats.
So yeah I do have plan ;)
i’ll try To review some other entry later on today. From the phone is impossible lol
BASIC SET - HARVESTER SET I - HARVESTER SET II - PRE CORE SET (SoU) - CORE SET & POST CORE (UiS)
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Adventurer Extraordinaire@Shlauchneid
I understand were you're comming from. Last year, I learned about the existence of the competion when it had already started and so I couldn't participate. It was really annoying at the time and I knew that I would have to wait a whole year before I could enter the next competition.
Yes, sometimes the rules limit some people's excess to the competition and it feels bad. Sometimes you have an idea that is just out of what you are allowed to do. Sometimes you really want to go back and change what you did (could have happened to me if I had submitted my first class idea). The rules limit the things you can do, your are not entirely free to make whatever you want and it can be annoying or feel unfair.
But this is a competition, with many people taking part in it. Taking part of the competition means that you accept the rules, whatever they might be. I don't want to use a weak argument like "other people do it so you must do it", my point is that you knew you were getting into a standardized creation process and if you are not willing to adjust your ideas to the rules of said process, you shouldn't complain about being excluded. As you explained earlier, no one kicked you out of the competition, you decided to leave because you couldn't accept to abide by the rules.
It's ok, no one can force you to make a class that you don't want to do, but don't try to make the mods change the rules for you own sake. Not only would it mean that anyone can beg for the rules to be changed (and it it were the case, everyone would do it), it would also negate the effort people put in their class. Sure, it's a setback to see that your cards aren't in line with the rules but with the amount of time we are given each phase, you can come up with cool idea that work with the rules.
I can see the appeal of free creation but this competition is not about doing whatever you want. If you just want to make a class with no one telling you what to do, you can, but not here. I'm sure that you would get a lot of feedback and support if you were making a class on your own in this very forum.
I hope you undrrstand that this competition needs rules to operate (submission deadlines for exemple) and that if you are not ok with them you don't need to participate. Not to mention that you're wasting the mods time (since you know they keep telling you the same thing) and they have a lot to do for the comp and the forum so please stop being annoying because you are frustrated.
Hope you have a good day (or night, what do I know) and you can overcome your frustration.
hey @linkblade91 i really like your class and think you've been doing a good job
Vote for the Fist Fighter https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/fan-creations/229960-trials-and-errors-class-creation-competition-5?comment=3 😎🤜
Omerque - The Angel
For the Hero Power why don't you make it reduce the Health by 1 to a random friendly and enemy minion? In the end you might get something very similar with killing 1and 1 but not as immediate.
I agreed with what as been said already, need another art for Hero and Hero Power. Honestly there are plenty of angel fantasy related images.
Prayer - It's balanced but i don't like it. It feel more like a secret to me.
Under My Wings - I do like this card, very interesting and new.
Holy Defenders - i think the token are too strong and with the name like that they feel a lot like legendaries. I would drop to +1+1 and Restore 3 Health.
Cleansing Sword - Because fo the debuff i think you can add 1 more attack.
Break Defense - To make it simple why don't you make it just remove the taunt or destroy a taunt minion?
Live Shields - Might be too strong with the Hero Power as it is.
White Queen - Thats work well.
thepowrofcheese -Tinker
Overall i think you are ready to submit, i like the flavour of the class and how you left space for future synergies . The only card that does;t convince me is the overclock. It looks more something for a chronomancer than a tinker...why don't you change the art to something related to ventilation, aeration area or something like that?
BASIC SET - HARVESTER SET I - HARVESTER SET II - PRE CORE SET (SoU) - CORE SET & POST CORE (UiS)
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Card Design ChampionThis card can really cause zoo decks to panic, they'll likely make terrible trades to try kill off their minions, but then you can just not attack! A tricky card to master playing with and against.
Edit: Just realized I should word this "After your hero attacks" or it'd trigger before the attack causing heaps of problems haha.
Check out my Custom Classes (Scribe, Alchemist, and Battlemage)!
Thanks :) It means a lot to hear stuff like that.
While on the subject of me, I haven't been as present as I'd like to be so apologies about that. Don't know if I can change the circumstances, but it has left me self-aware nonetheless.
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
Hello!
So I've been tinkering with my Infiltrator class for quite a while now and did some playtesting. I printed some cards and played it with a friend! Look below, it's Maeiv vs Mirage! (just a mock battlefield I did for this post):
(yeah I so wanted to play my class I printed them out!)
Aside from Maiev, she did some battling against Jaina and Rexxar (no cards printed, just on paper). Results are:
Aganst Maiev (Win: 1; Lose: 4)
Jaina (Win: 1; Lose: 1)
Rexxar (Win 2: Lose 0)
Mirage had a couple of good removal and her play style is very controll-y.
Her disruptive cost manipulating Hero Power did very well at the start of the game, stalling her enemies. But compared to priests and warrior, she can't live long enough because of lack of healing and armor; thus, she suffers from late game damage. She also lacks in doing burst damage to finish her enemies quickly in the late game.
I could have given her burst, but I wanted to stick with my premise of it being one of the class' weakness. I could have given her more cost manipulations, but cards with these mostly appear only in Classic. So I decided to included Value as part of Infiltrator's Win condition.
Here are the updates, and hopefully these are good enough cards before I submit it :) I playtested these and now find her competitive with a more reliable late game<3
What do you think?
Showcased Cards
REMAINING CARDS
Changes:
I needed more cards that reveal to set the Class' core mechanic. The former 1/4 didn't do much help on turn 4 either as most minion are to thick to destroy.
I buffed the former card to draw two cards for 3 cost, with the drawback of destroying your weapon as well (but very unlikely to happen). As I browse through "destroy weapon" cards, this mechanic is seem added as a bonus effect to an already balanced minion. I find out theArcane Intellect lacks 1 point value, so I made my own with this bonus effect. What do you think?
The former is very RNG reliant and may not be very fun to play against. I didn't want to include burst damage anyways, so I decided to add a single minion removal with a card draw. Similar to Hammer of Wrath, but with a lower cost and minion only.
The refresh hero power is not that helpful, and gain 1 Armor for Infiltrator's theme is quite odd (maybe in the future it will fit). So with the class lacking a win condition, I converted it to Value generation that supports its core mechanic, reveal. Not all cards that copied are helpful, sometimes only one is helpful. This card however really boosted the class to be competitive.
Lastly, the card I thought was already a good win condition, is still lackluster and a comatose card. Even at 7 mana, it can't compete well with the Priest's Mind Control, as it is very reliant with a minion on the battlefield and should have been revealed. The DIsguise Kit however became a very helpful tool in the early game, or a solid win at the end.
I'm pretty happy with the latest change I did and had some fun with it. But I'll appreciate any comments and suggestions, especially for the showcased cards :)
Win or lose, I have my cards printed that I can play and iterate anytime :D So fun!
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Card Design ChampionSorry, I haven't been able to provide global feedback but I can provide it on demand for people who haven't posted yet.
Anyway, here's my selection of Basic cards. I tried to really blend the requirements of the basic set with my class identity.
(Whelps comes from Onyxia/Leeroy)
Tokens:
Other cards I've considered putting into the basic set:
Good?
Custom cards :
CLASSES : Alchemist (CCC#5 | Phase V) | Chef (CCC#4)
EXPANSIONS : Year of the Scorpion (Year Comp)
Some new card & concept for my hero (The Angel).
Some new cards:
To make the hero more balance, it will play both angelic beings and demonic minions.
to balance healing and positive effects with damage dealing and dark effects.
The Angel is now a fallen angel.
I've also taken your advise and replaced the graphic.
Please tell me your thoughts, I'm trying to do as much as I can with the limitation of "Destroy a friendly minion" on the hero power.
@Omerqu
this are my thoughts which my be wrong so just take it as a personal feedback
I prefer the light version of the angel so i think you should go ahead with that idea. It might be hard in the future to focus only on the Holy side and stay away from Paladin an Priest but i do think it's more original than the dark angel archetype. Also Wow and blizzard in general offer you plenty of ideas about that that you might use or not in the future sets: Anara, all the angels from diablo...
Anyway, you you wanna rework the Hero Power ad make it easier and less complicated what about something like this?
Destroy a minion. Resurrect the last minion you destroyed.
Destroy a minion until the end of the turn, then resurrect it.
You still gonna kill a minion but to do it again you will have to re-summon the previous one you destroyed and that can be use on friendly or enemy minion.
You can always play with that in the future or with the other card...for example you can make a spell that block any resurrection, or reset the hero power or why not summon the minion on your side of the board instead of the opponent one. I just did a quick example to give you random idea... I do like some of you cards, you shouldn't change the all concept only to adapt the hero power.
Obviously do not follow stats, cost, names or whatsoever. Just random thought trying to be helpful :)
BASIC SET - HARVESTER SET I - HARVESTER SET II - PRE CORE SET (SoU) - CORE SET & POST CORE (UiS)
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Card Design ChampionDefinitely still not fond of Cocktail Throw as a basic card. I like your art choices and I like the change to Lab Accident. I feel like you need more healing representation in the basic set, since none of your current basic cards represent it as a theme. Unwilling Subjects could also use a bit of a bump in power, unless there's a lot of aura buffs in the class.
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Adventurer ExtraordinaireMy god! Eeryone was wainting to page 2 to post their submission (myself included)
Wow, our classes are not only similar in the name, but also in several themes :_D Summoning tokens (which are also called Homunculus), tutors, buffs, hand synergy (which is not present in my Basic set, but will be in the Classic set)... I hope this doesn't backfire any of us.
Now, feedback time!
I think your Hero Power is too complex already, so having two of them is not a good solution.
I'd try one these options:
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Card Design ChampionAlready 24 entries in and there's two that didn't meet the challenges (*Facepalm*)
Question to to mod: Do you guys still use the Wild Card like every other CCC?
Also, why is so much less people voting this round? There's so much good class that didn't get the votes they should have (Bloodburner, Ringmaster,
Astromancer, ahem).And I still think the Gambler is overrated. This class's potential to high roll is so extreme because of its card generation HP.
Click here to visit my Timestream Tracking Finalist Year of the Dragon in collaboration with Demonxz95
Class Creation Finalist: The Astromancer
Best cards vote by community:
As long as one of those two people are not me; I don't think I could handle DQ-ing myself again DX
It's a shame about the low voting, but I was just about to say something regarding a fresh front page post regarding the Class comp; a reminder that we're under a week left or something like that. Hopefully it would help, assuming I get the okay. We haven't talked about Wild Cards.
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
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Card Design ChampionNah, don't worry Link. You're good.
There's only like around 30 entries this round (2 already DQ, 2 violated the challenge and 2 more still post in this forum). The number of entries are also pretty poor since we had, what, 50 entries in phase 1?
Click here to visit my Timestream Tracking Finalist Year of the Dragon in collaboration with Demonxz95
Class Creation Finalist: The Astromancer
Best cards vote by community:
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Card Design ChampionIf anything, I think this would just lead to more of those "get this shit off the front page" comments we got in DNAF. Remember that?
Such unjustified bullshit.
Click the image to go to my custom Time Traveler class.
One idea i have for increasing the number of upvotes is requiring every participant to upvote at least one post per page. On every page in the submission topic (except for the page on which your post appeared, so you don't work against yourself), you'd have to upvote minimum one entry. There are many people who don't bother upvoting in these competitions, and the least you could do if you participate is to like someone else's work. I doubt you won't find at least one good entry in 20.
This unfortunately requires a lot of effort on the mods' side. But basically i propose transforming something which should be basic courtesy into a rule.