Hello everyone, and thanks in advance for taking a look at my custom class! This class was inspired by my early days of playing Priest and loving the way the class’s primary removal wasn’t damage based. When I saw the Merchant class (one of the finalists of the first class design competition) and how it created a class without any damage I decided I wanted to take a stab at it. The Sapper is my attempt, and along with those two initial sources it includes my personal obsession with non-discard based ways of messing with your opponent’s hand, non-destroy based removal, and various other things. I hope you like it. Without further ado, onto to the cards!
First, if you saw the hero power and wondered what a ‘Basic Scourge’ is, let’s take a look at what the Hero Power creates:
As the tooltip implies, Scourges are sort of the anti-Spare Parts and represent uncollectable spells that hinder the caster or benefit the caster’s opponent. From a power perspective these Basic Scourges have an increased effect compared to a normal hero power (for instance, gaining 3 Armor compared to the Warrior HP) but are balanced by the fact that they are both randomly generated and at the discretion of your opponent. While it would be nice to have a quick and easy (2) Cost card draw, sometimes your opponent will be willing to live with a slightly higher mana cost if it means they can deny you.
BASIC SET
Outland Scout: The Sapper class doesn’t have reliable removal tools so I wanted to make sure they had a few core minions to help maintain board presence. The drawback is steep in most classes, and may even be detrimental in the early game, but Sapper’s want their opponent to have big hands. Initially I thought about making the drawback “Battlecry: Your opponent draws a card” but I think this current version entices your opponent to let it live longer.
Feint: A reprint, but also one of the main forms of ‘removal’ available to the class. My only regret is that Sap already claimed the name.
Lock Down: Another vital ‘removal’ tool. I keep going back and forth on this cost, but I think it makes the most sense here as the (2) Cost spell that takes care of a threat.
Reconnaissance: Sapper card draw is almost exclusively mutual, both because they want there opponent to have a lot of cards in hand but also because it allows them to draw more for less. The second part introduces how much the Sapper likes copies and shuffling, and helps to pad out a deck against a self-mill.
Cease Hostilities: The Sapper version of an AoE. Originally had this costing more and giving “Can’t Attack” but I reworked it to the current version. This won’t protect your minions but can give your hero some extra breathing room.
Divert: More removal, or maybe just delayal. This is the Sapper version of the (4) cost silence and put away spell ala Polymorph, although this version is more about putting off headaches until you can deal with them later.
Snare Mana: For when you want to make it as hard as possible for a problem to appear so you don’t have to actually solve it. Balanced around Loatheb, although now Rebuke has me questioning whether lowering it is possible (but not questioning it enough to actually change).
Cobalt Guardian: Our first Mech (as a note, Cost 1-5 minions will usually be goblins or otherwise humanoid level, while 6-10 will be Mechs), just a nice big basic body. Intended to get across that Mechs are there to help finish out the game as the big finishers.
Call in the Mechalvary: Meched up Animal Companion. H3-LM and LR-G3 are essentially (9) cost or beefed up (8) cost minions to serve as defense or a big target, while FR-3Z is more quirky and introduces the tertiary Freeze element of the class.
Brain Strain: I think every class should have a (10) Cost iconic spell, and this is my version for the Sapper. This would usually work out less than a card draw tool and more as a final milling attack. I keep switching between setting it at 6 or 7 cards, but ultimately settled on 7 as it’s a flashy jump over the current max of 5 cards.
Boombasket Recruit: Another cheap body with a drawback to help get a board set up. I could be talked into making this a Battlecry, but I like that as is it encourages ways to work around the Deathrattle.
See Ya!: I started off putting this at (1) but then worked out the Cost for this from both ends. Sap is worth two, but make it random and you get a (2) Cost reduction (although in this case the cost is actually needing a minion on the board you can return). On the other side, returning a friendly minion to your hand costs less than (0), so the random enemy return is a freebie.
Overclock Gambit: Out first (4) Cost Secret. Initially had this at both drawing 3 cards for the longest time, but I think 4 feels more correct, both for the cost and as a milling attack.
Reserves Gambit: The Sapper version of Duplicate, except you don’t get the extra copies until you draw them.
Chill Out: I believe I stole this from a Death Knight custom class (or maybe I stole it from every Death Knight class). Helpful for giving more breathing room, although more temporary.
Dread-Not: A take on Guardian of Kings and another reminder that Sappers like their opponents to have full hands. Armor gain isn’t a huge part of the Sapper identity, with the Basic Scourge being the main way, but it’s sprinkled throughout.
War Drums: The Sapper version of a board clear. Originally started off just as a single minion buff (with Immune and +1 Attack per card, but could still attack heroes) but changed to affect the whole board. Can’t attack heroes was added to emphasize what its intended for and to stop it from being too lolbroken.
Reroute Gambit: Sappers have an undercurrent of enchanted creature hate that will bloom more fully later, but the seeds are here. One sided Vanish with setup and a catch required.
Grizzled Grenadier: I firmly believe that forcing discards of things already in hand isn’t fun, but messing with Costs is. This maybe just forces them to wait a few more turns for their big Legendary, but could screw up a combo or leave them with a dead (10) cost early drop they didn’t play in time.
Arcanobot: Solid defense with a way to cheat it out a little early. 6/10 Taunt seems to be worth around (8), so if you have a Secret you get it for a little cheaper, and any more on the board allows for a real treat.
Decoy Gambit: My take on preventing imminent death ala Ice Block. I always got kind of annoyed that Ice Block essentially ended the turn, and I think this version gives some more opponent interaction.
Steamweedle Specialist: I’ve always liked giving minions in your hand Battlecries and Deathrattles, and this helps stuff your opponent with chaff they need to deal with. Note that the intention is that if you play this multiple times the effect on the other minions would stack.
Disrupt Logistics: Our introduction to Advanced Scourges. My initial drafts of the class had some very limited hard removal (mostly centered on enchanted minion hate) but didn’t feel right. Making it a Scourge allows it to be a little more powerful, but at your opponent’s discretion. You could also use this if your opponent has nothing on the board as a mill attack.
Rixmix Boomwizzle: I wanted the Classic Legendary to be something that, while maybe not a game-ender on its own, would find a welcome spot in most decks. This allows your effects that key off the opponent’s hand to have maximum punch and will mill one card on its own. Body should maybe be a 5/5?
Mind Control Gas: Turn any minion into Sylvanas! The class isn’t super big on Deathrattles, but I like that this functions as a Secret version of one.
[b]Blastshadow Spy[/b]: I’ve got a personal delight in “whenever this deals damage, do that many things” type effects. This is an early minion who will probably get picked off fast but can still gunk up the opponent’s hand, and if it manages to survive or get buffed it can really cause some frustration.
[b]L1 Observer[/b]: As the set that plays up Mechs of course I had to step up the Mech love for the class. This, as you might tell from the MtG art, is inspired by Affinity for Artifacts. I don’t think it’s as broken as it would be in that game, but this should still come out as at least a (4) Mountain Yeti, with some quicker plays if you get a lucky draw of Mechwarper copies.
[b]Ace Saboteur[/b]: This might be more of a neutral effect, but it’s something I wish had been printed in the actual set. I assume there would have been at least one Twitch stream where a minion kept ‘missing’ a Taunt and hitting face until the game was won.
[b]Boom Boom Add On[/b]: Spoiler alert, but this class will be giving a lot of love to Boom Bot in upcoming sets. This is a slight toe dip, as well as another Sapper-roundabout way of providing some AOE. Original version gave Mechs a deathrattle where they were shuffled back into the deck, but that was too wordy. Changed to just give them extra explosions.
[b]Degenerate Demolitionist[/b]: An extra point of Attack with a drawback.
[b]Rageforged[/b]: I told you I liked this kind of effect. This functions like a reverse trample, and gives some undirected damage to minions which the Sapper has in short supply.
[b]Kitbash Explosives[/b]: The AOE card for the set. Note that there are no class cards to generate Spare Parts so this card requires a bit of work. Intention with [b]Netherbomb[/b] is that the number is based directly on how many Spare Parts were discarded, it doesn’t upgrade or become a different card.
[b]Shredder Carrier X[/b]: I heard you like Mechs so I put some Mechs on your Mech. Geosculpter Yip inspired. Note that, based on my skim of the list, there are Cost (0)-(9) Mechs but this would be the first/only (10) Cost, so if your opponent has a full hand you get two!
Really cool ideas. I like the idea behind Scourges. Reminds me of the League of Exploreres adventure. Too bad the only collectable card we got out of that theme was Curse of Rafaam. I feel like other classes (Rogue or Druid) could have made much better use of that mechanic.
I've done a similar thing designing a custom class with 4 mana secrets and it's tough. You've done a good job. I feel like Reroute Gambit is a bit too specific, it's almost useless outside of the Paladin matchup, but maybe it's ok to have as a hate card or an unexpected play from a randomly generated spell.
The wording on "Commit the Unthinkable" is a little weird. I assume that it means your opponent takes fatigue dmg even if they have cards in their deck and that they don't actually draw a card. If that's what you mean then replacing "Draw a Fatigue card" with "take Fatigue damage" might be cleaner text.
Overall: Good stuff. If you want to keep making more I'd like to see them.
Really cool ideas. I like the idea behind Scourges. Reminds me of the League of Exploreres adventure. Too bad the only collectable card we got out of that theme was Curse of Rafaam. I feel like other classes (Rogue or Druid) could have made much better use of that mechanic.
I've done a similar thing designing a custom class with 4 mana secrets and it's tough. You've done a good job. I feel like Reroute Gambit is a bit too specific, it's almost useless outside of the Paladin matchup, but maybe it's ok to have as a hate card or an unexpected play from a randomly generated spell.
The wording on "Commit the Unthinkable" is a little weird. I assume that it means your opponent takes fatigue dmg even if they have cards in their deck and that they don't actually draw a card. If that's what you mean then replacing "Draw a Fatigue card" with "take Fatigue damage" might be cleaner text.
Overall: Good stuff. If you want to keep making more I'd like to see them.
Thanks for the feedback.
Definitely agree on Reroute Gambit. My original trigger was “When an enemy minion is enchanted...” to cover buff spells, Battlecries, auras et al. But then I scared myself off that wording because I wasn’t sure how it would interact if the enemy had an ongoing buff, like Stormwind Champion, on the board at the start of their turn. Then I tried “When an enemy minion is targeted by a spell or Battlecry...” but it pushed it to five lines. I think I might just make it “when enchanted” and assume that the theoretical code would delineate and trigger only on a new enchantment.
Yes, intent of Commit the Unthinkable is that they start taking Fatigue damage even with a full deck, with the escalation that Fatigue naturally entails. I’ll be honest, I thought the Fatigue damage were their own cards, but looking over the wiki it appears that it’s just a way to show the damage.
More coming soon as I lock down art and names. Thanks again!
really cool ideas but i really don't like that feint is just a reskin of Sap it should have something extra, like "if an enemy minon has can't attack this does X/costs 1 less/gains echo"
Pretty cool ideas, it's amazing how many different ways of twisting a few effects you came up.
Balance wise, I think the legend should have a stat reduction. Vanilla stats are way to good for an unconditional "Use your hero power for free five-ish times".
Pretty decent set overall, but i dont like that brutal mill theme you have goin on there, some of the combos, especially with the secret, can burn through almost half of your opponents deck, not a fan of that.
But one card i love so much - Grizzled Grenadier - that is such a cool way to go about it. I dont normally like direct hand/deck attacks, but this one is rly smart and kinda bypasses the issue i have with them in general. You dont destroy the card outright, but you make it damn hard to play it, not impossible, but very difficult :)
Pretty cool ideas, it's amazing how many different ways of twisting a few effects you came up.
Balance wise, I think the legend should have a stat reduction. Vanilla stats are way to good for an unconditional "Use your hero power for free five-ish times".
Same could be said about Steamweedle Specialist.
Thanks! The more I mull it over the more I agree about Rixmix. His body was in place from an earlier design where he shuffled cards into the opponent’s deck, so I figured a vanilla body was ok for a delayed effect. When I switched it to hand stuffing I kept forgetting the body. Is 5/5 still too beefy? Steamweedle I’m more comfortable with, it doesn’t have an immediate effect on its own and depends a lot on your hand composition for its power.
Pretty decent set overall, but i dont like that brutal mill theme you have goin on there, some of the combos, especially with the secret, can burn through almost half of your opponents deck, not a fan of that.
But one card i love so much - Grizzled Grenadier - that is such a cool way to go about it. I dont normally like direct hand/deck attacks, but this one is rly smart and kinda bypasses the issue i have with them in general. You dont destroy the card outright, but you make it damn hard to play it, not impossible, but very difficult :)
Thanks for the feedback, and the Grizzled Grenadier love. As to the milling, I confess that I’m a bigger fan of it than the median player, so that bias is going to justifiably turn some off. Is there a specific combo or set of cards you flagged? I’m not great at seeing those sort of interlocking timebombs just from looking at (or even creating) individual cards.
Mind Control Gas: Turn any minion into Sylvanas! The class isn’t super big on Deathrattles, but I like that this functions as a Secret version of one.
[b]Blastshadow Spy[/b]: I’ve got a personal delight in “whenever this deals damage, do that many things” type effects. This is an early minion who will probably get picked off fast but can still gunk up the opponent’s hand, and if it manages to survive or get buffed it can really cause some frustration.
[b]L1 Observer[/b]: As the set that plays up Mechs of course I had to step up the Mech love for the class. This, as you might tell from the MtG art, is inspired by Affinity for Artifacts. I don’t think it’s as broken as it would be in that game, but this should still come out as at least a (4) Mountain Yeti, with some quicker plays if you get a lucky draw of Mechwarper copies.
[b]Ace Saboteur[/b]: This might be more of a neutral effect, but it’s something I wish had been printed in the actual set. I assume there would have been at least one Twitch stream where a minion kept ‘missing’ a Taunt and hitting face until the game was won.
[b]Boom Boom Add On[/b]: Spoiler alert, but this class will be giving a lot of love to Boom Bot in upcoming sets. This is a slight toe dip, as well as another Sapper-roundabout way of providing some AOE. Original version gave Mechs a deathrattle where they were shuffled back into the deck, but that was too wordy. Changed to just give them extra explosions.
[b]Degenerate Demolitionist[/b]: An extra point of Attack with a drawback.
[b]Rageforged[/b]: I told you I liked this kind of effect. This functions like a reverse trample, and gives some undirected damage to minions which the Sapper has in short supply.
[b]Kitbash Explosives[/b]: The AOE card for the set. Note that there are no class cards to generate Spare Parts so this card requires a bit of work. Intention with [b]Netherbomb[/b] is that the number is based directly on how many Spare Parts were discarded, it doesn’t upgrade or become a different card.
[b]Shredder Carrier X[/b]: I heard you like Mechs so I put some Mechs on your Mech. Geosculpter Yip inspired. Note that, based on my skim of the list, there are Cost (0)-(9) Mechs but this would be the first/only (10) Cost, so if your opponent has a full hand you get two!
[b]Anvilrage Bruiser[/b]: The Sapper take on the ‘whenever damaged’ theme of Blackrock.
[b]Rally for Numbers[/b]: I really liked using Kel’Thuzad even if he was a giant target. The opponent can still play around this, leaving a straggler alive to finish off next turn for example, but it’s still an AOE-deterrent.
[b]Merchandise Spotlight[/b]: Moving forward Boom Bots will help to fill out a potential Sapper Zoo deck. They give a board presence and the potential for actually dealing damage, but undirected since it’s still a Sapper weak point.
[b]Ticket Scaler[/b]: The only direct “Hero Power” matters card for the set, this allows the Sapper to draw but also increases the opponent’s hand by 2. I made it low cost so it could be put on the board early and force the opponent to weigh whether the chance for them to draw cards is worth letting it stick around.
[b]Scouter Droid[/b]: This used to be a Classic card, but I didn’t think it merited never rotating out. I’ve always liked the design of Lightspawn and this is the Sapper take on that.
[b]Ordnance Hawker[/b]: The (3) Cost “Summon two 1/1 if [x]” cards seem to be a sub-sub-staple. Boom Bots are a bit more substantial than 1/1 Bats or Whelps, so I beefed up the trigger requirement.
[b]Fizzle Vial[/b]: Counters are hard in a game without ‘instants’ but I still think they should be more spread out than just Counterspell. I got the inspiration for this from a competitor in the last Class Creation competition, and then saw another separate custom class, both of which independently cost it at (2).
[b]Eject[/b]: Sapper AOE with a drawback. This is useful if you’re replacing a bunch of big beefy guys or a wall of Taunts, but if it’s a bunch of 1/1 weenie tokens you’ve given your opponent an upgrade.
Even the Odds Uncollectibles:
Banes:
Robot Guardians:
[b]Take a Dive[/b]: Anti-jousting tech card. It would probably be mean to label Millhouse Manastorm as a Scourge, but if the shoe fits….
[b]Even the Odds[/b]: This might be a just for me series of Scourges, but I liked having at least one set that was specifically tailored to the opponent class. I tried to make them all roughly equal and something the opponent could still play around.
[b]Dixink, Party Crasher[/b]: This is more of a fun legendary, although it also functions like a shuffle version of Brawl.
However, I think most Even the Odds banes are too weak or at least situational considering you have to pay 10 mana to put them in your opponent's hand.
I mean, many priests don't run any healing nor damaging spells, for instance.
I think you should reduce the cost of the card and rework the effects that are good (mage and paladin, I would say)
However, I think most Even the Odds banes are too weak or at least situational considering you have to pay 10 mana to put them in your opponent's hand.
I mean, many priests don't run any healing nor damaging spells, for instance.
I think you should reduce the cost of the card and rework the effects that are good (mage and paladin, I would say)
Thanks! Yeah, I'm not completely satisfied with all the Banes. I kept being torn between balancing against the Robot Guardian swing and the actual in-hand effect. It's on my list of things to review.
It's a cool concept, I just think that the insane way to mill your opponent is too powerful. I've played some standard mill druid, and with only Naturalizes and Forest Guides I'm able to mill about 3-7 cards a game on average, if I play it right. With a lot of the cards in just the Basic set, you can construct a pretty brutal mill deck already. I do like a lot of the cards, I just think there's too much synergy for that type of deck.
[b]Goblin Archaeologist[/b]: It used to be more prevalent (and will come back a little later) but the Sapper’s focus on Secrets was a lot about getting to re-use Secrets that had already been revealed/triggered. Since it took extra set up to work (i.e. a Secret being both played and revealed) and your opponent had seen it before (i.e. lessened surprise) you get a Cost reduction. In the case of this card, you might also snare another class’s revealed Secret even if you haven’t played any of your own.
[b]Ancient Automaton[/b]: Another one of my personal favorite quirky cards are the 0-Attack with a twist minions. This essentially allows you to cast Sap on a few enemies while it sucks up 8 attack of damage, although your opponent can still play around the deathrattle or just destroy it with spells.
[b]Tomb Raiding Party[/b]: This is, realistically, a card that wouldn’t have been a class card, or at least not one during LoE itself. Using a newly introduced mechanic and then making it work in a different way would be too confusing. However, this is my set so Imma do what I want, at least for this instance. These three Secrets are ones I had been kicking around to be actual cards, but they all felt pretty niche and tech so I figured they’d make more sense as a bundle. I went back and forth on whether you’d get copies of all three of your opponent’s Discover options or just the ones they didn’t pick, but decided to treat it as a (4) cost draw 3 with the benefit of knowing what your opponent saw, if not necessarily what they chose.
[b]Goblin Cultist[/b]: A version of this used to be in the Basic or Classic set, sort of the Sapper version of the (1) 1/3 with a class twist. I kept edging it out, but I think it works great as the C’Thun buffer of the class.
[b]Ancient Invocations[/b]: Had a version of this closer to KnC (as deliberate anti-Spiteful Summoner tech) but I think it fits better in WotOG with all its big Cost-adjacent Cards. Played early this also has a side benefit of sticking your opponent with two extra cards they won’t be able to actually use for a while.
[b]Netherstorm Intimidator[/b]: Undirected Cost attack, but only for a turn. Useful if you think your opponent has pulled their Old God and you need to buy some time at the end game.
[b]Piloted Infection[/b]: One of the few flavor-based/top-down cards I’ve made. I just liked the idea of Mechs being ‘corrupted’ and tying that back into the Piloted Shredder class of cards.
[b]Apocalypse Engineer[/b]: The “If your C’Thun has 10 or more Attack” card for the class. The C’Thun benefit is a discount to your cards and not an increase on your opponent’s because this is the ‘corrupted’ set (and because I couldn’t make the opponent version fit on 4 lines).
[b]Glimpse at Yogg-Saron/Glance at Yogg-Saron[/b]: I had an idea for a card that essentially wouldn’t leave your hand, so I worked from there to find an effect that wouldn’t be too OP to always have. Luckily damage isn’t a part of the toolset, and I think this combo is fair. You’d essentially have to pay (4) to completely Lock Down an enemy. And of course, this would be a prime Yogg spell count booster.
[b]Corrupted Shredder[/b]: The corrupted and buffed up version of the “Whenever this damages a hero” effect. I gave it charge because I wanted to make sure it had a greater chance of impact.
[b]Outland Scrapper[/b]: My Sapper take on Spellsinger. Note that this encourages some careful timing on the Sapper’s part, because you can make sure that you play it after your opponent plays a Scourge, rather than one of their own spells.
[b]She Who Saw[/b]: My take on the corrupted version of Rixmix, upgrading the Scourges your opponent already has. I tried to balance the Whispers so that they can’t easily be sidestepped.
So, I quite like some of the general ideas here and your class has a cool theme. Tradecraft seems a bit complex for a base Hero Power, but I wouldn't say it NEEDS to be changed. However, having a class mostly focused on Mill might come off negatively to some people as Mill decks are the very anti-thesis of a TCG.
To give off some feedback though:
Basic
Lock Down is a very dangerous card to print, even for a rotating expansion. As a Basic card it's even worse, and Team 5 can't move Basic cards to the Hall of Fame or else they present 1 class at a severe disadvantage, especially for people just learning the game. Permanent "Can't attack" effects are not a good idea, because they completely remove a spot on your opponent's board. Effects which prevent minions from attacking are best kept temporary like Freeze.
How does Overcloak Gambit work? When does it trigger? Does it trigger as soon as your opponent has 6 cards in hand? What if they already have 6 cards by the time their turn starts?
Grizzled Guardian seems a bit too oppressive to me.
Decoy Gambit seems like it would fit better in a later set. Passive Hero Powers from collectible cards didn't exist until Valeera the Hollow in KotFT.
I don't know if this was intended, but Rixmix Boomwizzle is guaranteed to mill a card for your opponent from your deck, effectively acting as a super-Gnomeferatu, which some people probably won't like. It also seems OP to me.
GvG
Unless your class has a way of swarming Mechs onto the field very easily, L1 Observer seems pretty weak.
I don't understand Degenerate Demolitionist. Why would I want to turn my opponent's Scourges into Spare Parts? It turns a downside into an upside for them. This doesn't seem worth it for +1 Attack over a Pit Fighter.
TGT
"Counter" should be in bold on Fizzle Vial, like Counterspell.
Even the Odds seems very weird and the power flexes from useless to useful depending on class. I don't think "based on class" needs to be in brackets either.
LoE
Tomb Raiding Party might be too weak because each of the Secrets are extremely dependent on your match-up. Even if you are playing against a Secret class, there is no guarantee they will have a Secret to play for Arcane Ward. People will also learn all 3 of the Secrets and then it will be much easier to play around because when your opponent sees this card, they'll have a pretty good chance of knowing what you chose. It also seems very awkward against certain classes. For example, against Mage, your opponent already knows you'll either select Arcane Ward or Finders Keepers. Once they find out it's not one, they know to play around the other. Similarly, against Priest, the only Secret that has any effect is Finders Keepers (unless maybe they Thoughtsteal another Secret in your deck). The only class in which all 3 Secrets will have a chance to have an impact is Paladin and maybe Rogue.
To add to this, there is already a card in the game called Finders Keepers, so you should change the name.
Judging by the way Troggzor the Earthinator went, Goblin Cultist seems pretty weak. Most C'Thun cards that buff C'Thun have vanilla stats (the only exception to this is Disciple of C'Thun because it also deals 2 damage).
Apocalypse Engineer I feel the same way about. It's a symmetrical effect which reminds me of Coldlight Oracle. That's cool, but if you look at Klaxxi Amber-Weaver or Twilight Darkmender, an effect requiring C'Thun to have 10 Attack is worth about 3-3.5 mana if it has vanilla stats, and it's worth even more when it doesn't have vanilla stats (Ancient Shieldbearer, Twin Emperor Vek'lor).
Glimpse of Yogg-Saron is very weird... and maybe too OP. You can cast both on the same minion and prevent them from ever attacking. You can do this twice a turn too.
The artwork for She Who Saw seems a bit... out there. Not a big fan of it.
I'm really hoping that I didn't come off as too negative when reviewing this. Everything that I didn't mention I think is fine, and I legitimately do like a lot of the ideas presented here. My absolute favorite card here is Take a Dive. I don't know if it'll ever be viable because Joust was a flop except for a few cards, but the idea is hilarious and awesome at the same time.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click the image to go to my custom Time Traveler class.
I'm really hoping that I didn't come off as too negative when reviewing this. Everything that I didn't mention I think is fine, and I legitimately do like a lot of the ideas presented here. My absolute favorite card here is Take a Dive. I don't know if it'll ever be viable because Joust was a flop except for a few cards, but the idea is hilarious and awesome at the same time.
Not at all, this is the kid of stuff I love to get! Let me go through and see if I have a valid rationale for some of your critiques, or whether I have to take it back to the drawing board.
For the cards where I copied a previously existing card name or messed up the formatting, that's just a Doh on my part. Will correct soon.
Lock Down: Heh, for such a simple effect this is definitely the one card that no one (even me) can settle on appropriate Cost. The Sapper Draft 0.01 version of this was costed (4). The earliest feedback I got was that that was way too high because when you're facing a board of aura effects and such stopping them from attacking is worthless. Since then I've steadily talked myself into lowering it down to (2). That's the level of conditional removal (Execute, Shadow Word: Pain) and a boatload of direct damage. For some decks without a way to grant taunt or sacrifice their own minions (whether intentionally or as part of all minion board wipes) it does cause a spot to be lost, but I don't think the effect itself should be overcosted based on its most powerful use.
Snare Mana: Mostly agree. I costed this when Loatheb was the primary reference point. I'm comfortable leaving it where it is, while I think Basic cards should generally be able to be used in every deck I also think there's bound to be some less than ideal cards in the works.
Overclock Gambit: Original intention was that it would trigger whenever your opponent had 6 cards in hand, including when they drew their 6th card or if they started their turn with 6. Does seem unclear, and might be too intentionally mill-y. I'm batting around "When your opponent draws two or more cards in a turn, both draw 3/4" so they actually have to trigger it.
Grizzled Grenadier: Aww, that's already someone else's favorite card. If it's set to (10) your opponent can still play it (even if its suboptimal at that point).
Decoy Gambit: Good point about the Passive Hero Power thing, I wanted it there to indicate that the Sapper (and their near death life total) will return, but couldn't think of another way to frame it. I don't want to take it out of the Classic set because I think the Sapper deserves to have a lifesaver secret that doesn't rotate (although RIP to Ice Block so maybe it's just an inherently hard effect to keep in).
Rixmix: The guaranteed one card mill is intentional. Do you consider the effect OP on its own, or in combination with his vanilla stats. Knocking those down is on my to do list, probably to a 4/4 or maybe 3/3.
L1 Observer: Sapper doesn't swarm Mechs (since they're all 6-10 Cost) but there were plenty of Mechs just in GvG. I figure this would usually be gotten out for (4) so it'd be on par, anything beyond that would be gravy.
Degenerate Demolitionist: No, you pretty much got it. Are you saying the stat increase for the downside isn't good enough? Unlike something like Hoarding Dragon you can get to decide if your opponent has any Scourges in their hand before you play to minimize or even eliminate the downside.
Even the Odds: Agreed, some of these were first drafts or off the cuff. Will probably be tinkering with them for awhile.
Tomb Raiding Party: I agree with your assessment, but I see it as a feature of the card and not a bug; They're edge cases that I liked enough to include somewhere, but definitely not enough to justify an actual card (at least without some big revamping). I do think the vast majority of time you'll end up picking (whatever I rename) Finders Keepers just because it's omni-applicable, but LoE and later sets will develop a sub-theme of Sapper Secret situations that are basically "A trap you knowingly walk into is still a trap."
Goblin Cultist: True. I think Sapper's would benefit a little bit more because Scourges are also considered spells, but the history of that effect isn't sterling. One that I kept putting back on, and then taking off, was a (1) 0/2 "Whenever your opponent draws a card get +1/+1" since by the next turn it would be an effective 1/3. Not sure if that would snowball too quickly though.
Apocalypse Engineer: Wow, I hadn't done the maths for the C'Thun effects I guess. Would a steeper Cost reduction be warranted then?
Glimpse of Yogg-Saron: That's another one I see as a feature, not a bug. Although I guess a big part of that might be how we feel the true cost of a "Can't Attack" effect should be?
She Who Saw: Heh, that's from the Kill la Kill anime. The main character's living armor goes berserk and turns her into a monster. I thought it looked both goblin-y and Old Gods corrupted-y enough.
[b]Aractraz Portal[/b]: Earlier drafts of the class were more focused on gumming up the opponent’s deck with cards that would disrupt their draws, like shuffling Coins or deleterious cards. Further refinement led me to believe that that would be less fun to play against, so the focus was shifted to stuffing the opponent’s hand and Scourges. However, I still became attached to some of that deck stuffing, like this portal with the Scourge-esque Millhouse. Also functions as Kabal disruptor once Gadgetzan gets released.
[b]Karazhan Cooler[/b]: Not too much to say. A lot of the “can’t attack” cards are on spells, this seemed like a simple effect to put on a minion.
[b]Bounce[/b]: The anti-enchantment theme of Sappers begins to rouse itself. While weak against Zoo decks who just flood the board, this would be a hefty deterrent against token/buffing decks. You can also enchant enemies and then play this, which works in a pinch if you’re willing to spend a few more cards.
[b]Shake Down[/b]: Rather than come up with a fourth gang, I decided to put the Sapper into the Grimy Goons. The class has a bunch of shuffle into deck effects so the Kabal was right out. I tooled around with some Jade cards, but a lot of it felt like riffs on Jade Idol. Grimy Goons was easier to think up ideas for, plus they have more goblins in their art. Shake Down is the Scourge take on hand buffing, putting the choice in your opponent’s hand but also gumming up their other costs. Was originally “Can’t draw cards while this is in your hand” but that seemed so onerous that there effectively was no choice of whether to cast it.
[b] RP-LI-K-T0R[/b]: Like Hunter specialized in buffing Beasts, and Warrior buffed Taunts/weapons, the Sapper specializes in buffing Mech. This is part of a cycle of “buffed Mechs matter” cards. Hopefully it comes across clear enough; Intention is that if you hand-buffed this to a 6/6 (or whatever) the copy shuffled in would also be a 6/6 instead of a vanilla copy. This way it could continue to grow throughout the game.
[b]Grimestreet Hustler[/b]: The Sapper version of a vanilla buffing card.
[b]Reroute Riot[/b]: A one-sided board return intended to prevent or alleviate a rush. This would probably require a lot of skill, or luck, to use; If you time it right you can return the entire board full of 10/10+ Jades, but if your opponent is cautious or just had nothing to play you’d only nab maybe one minion.
[b]Iterative Smuggling[/b]: The Mech focused hand buff. I wanted it to be returnable, to match the name, but since the Mech has to have been summoned before you cast the spell it requires some work to get.
[b]Chop Shopper[/b]: Another in the “buffed Mechs matter” cycle. Inspired by [b]Rat Pack[/b], beefing up to Boom Bots based on needing a Mech already in play and losing it to shuffling.
[b]Back Alley Vendor[/b]: I liked the Boom Bot Re-Up card for the way it helps to give some (unreliable) board presence. Not sure if this would become an instant target since the threat is so delayed.
[b]Crowd Control Unit[/b]: Inspiration for this came from the Pokemon Hero entry into the Class Creation Competition a few iterations ago. That class had a spell that shuffled all enemy minions with less than 2 Attack into the opponent’s deck. This is my Mech twist on that. If you manage to hand buff it enough you can do a board shuffle.
[b]Crowd Pummeler Mk XI[/b]: The end of the “buffed Mechs matter” cycle. Since this is an aura effect the opponent can still neutralize it with spells, or even bigger minions they have.
[b]Jungle Geographer[/b]: This is a common quest booster, but also in the vein of earlier cards allowing for a bigger body with a drawback. In this case, you need a minion on the board you’re willing to shuffle, and in return you get an extra mana worth of stats.
[b]Red Queen Race[/b]: A Secret take on Evolving Spores, giving your minions two Adapt bonuses for the same Cost at the drawback of not being able to control when it goes off.
[b]Tribal Scout[/b]: What Gadgetzan Ferryman should have been, don’t @ me. Original design was more focused on returning this to your hand through different triggers (getting injured, enemy spelled played, etc.) but it was too wordy and fiddly.
[b]Escape the Stampede[/b]: Quest booster and AoE. Ideal if you’re playing with an empty board, but if not you have to be willing to give up your presence while merely delaying your opponent’s.
[b]Exotic Tinkering[/b]: A Boom Bots matter card. Fingers crossed for Poisonous!
[b]Jungle Colossus[/b]: The Sapper entry into “if you played an Elemental last turn” along with this set’s advanced Scourge. My attempt to twist the “while in hand effect,” this encourages your opponent to hold on to it for longer (which means effects that key off cards in hand are more powerful) or bite the Boom Bot and take the full amount of repetitions.
[b]Crater Goblin[/b]: This is another card that plays off the fact that your opponent is more likely to have non-helpful Scourge spells while you have beneficial spells only. Even if you get unlucky and your opponent plays only their spells you still keep their hand size from going down.
[b]Lakkari Serenader[/b]: More enchanted minion hate. Note that Adapt-ed minions are enchanted, so this set will probably allow this to have a higher hit rate than normal.
[b]Spraggle Frock[b]: Actually based on a Tavern Brawl idea, this is probably my most esoteric/weird legendary. Essentially, while this is on the board you make a metagame of minion play order and mana costs. The Sapper deck will be filled to take advantage of repeatable Battlecries and cheap minions, while the opponent would need to get rid of this before they could actually use their high cost minions, lest it get bounced right after they play. As a note, if you play Spraggle alone/first she’ll be bounced back on the same turn!
[b]The Lost Explorer[/b] and [b]Dr. Boom, I Presume[/b]: The Sapper quest. Shuffling things into the deck is about on par with playing the same minion over and over ala the Rogue quest, but since you’re usually shuffling multiples I upped the number. Flavor-wise, the shuffled cards are the rescue expedition to find Dr. Boom, who I guess got lost in Un’Goro and discovered a cache of Boom Bots he can share. Note that if you manage to replay him multiple times the effects will stack, so if you manage to return and play him three times all minions will have “Battlecry: Fill the board with 1/1 Boom Bots.”
[b]Jungle Geographer[/b]: This is a common quest booster, but also in the vein of earlier cards allowing for a bigger body with a drawback. In this case, you need a minion on the board you’re willing to shuffle, and in return you get an extra mana worth of stats.
[b]Red Queen Race[/b]: A Secret take on Evolving Spores, giving your minions two Adapt bonuses for the same Cost at the drawback of not being able to control when it goes off.
[b]Tribal Scout[/b]: What Gadgetzan Ferryman should have been, don’t @ me. Original design was more focused on returning this to your hand through different triggers (getting injured, enemy spelled played, etc.) but it was too wordy and fiddly.
[b]Escape the Stampede[/b]: Quest booster and AoE. Ideal if you’re playing with an empty board, but if not you have to be willing to give up your presence while merely delaying your opponent’s.
[b]Exotic Tinkering[/b]: A Boom Bots matter card. Fingers crossed for Poisonous!
[b]Jungle Colossus[/b]: The Sapper entry into “if you played an Elemental last turn” along with this set’s advanced Scourge. My attempt to twist the “while in hand effect,” this encourages your opponent to hold on to it for longer (which means effects that key off cards in hand are more powerful) or bite the Boom Bot and take the full amount of repetitions.
[b]Crater Goblin[/b]: This is another card that plays off the fact that your opponent is more likely to have non-helpful Scourge spells while you have beneficial spells only. Even if you get unlucky and your opponent plays only their spells you still keep their hand size from going down.
[b]Lakkari Serenader[/b]: More enchanted minion hate. Note that Adapt-ed minions are enchanted, so this set will probably allow this to have a higher hit rate than normal.
[b]Spraggle Frock[b]: Actually based on a Tavern Brawl idea, this is probably my most esoteric/weird legendary. Essentially, while this is on the board you make a metagame of minion play order and mana costs. The Sapper deck will be filled to take advantage of repeatable Battlecries and cheap minions, while the opponent would need to get rid of this before they could actually use their high cost minions, lest it get bounced right after they play. As a note, if you play Spraggle alone/first she’ll be bounced back on the same turn!
[b]The Lost Explorer[/b] and [b]Dr. Boom, I Presume[/b]: The Sapper quest. Shuffling things into the deck is about on par with playing the same minion over and over ala the Rogue quest, but since you’re usually shuffling multiples I upped the number. Flavor-wise, the shuffled cards are the rescue expedition to find Dr. Boom, who I guess got lost in Un’Goro and discovered a cache of Boom Bots he can share. Note that if you manage to replay him multiple times the effects will stack, so if you manage to return and play him three times all minions will have “Battlecry: Fill the board with 1/1 Boom Bots.”
Cool stuff, but I feel there are a few issues:
Red Queen Race would never activate, as secrets trigger on your opponent's turn and all adapt effects happen on your turn.
Boom Fever scourge feels weak to me. I mean, if I'm not missing something, it's just a card that will be in your opponent's hand for three turns (when it loses its effect completely), so it's only useful for mill. To make things worse, you have to play an understated minion that breaks your elemental chain (we know this is pretty disruptive thanks to Tol'vir Stoneshaper)
Finally, I'm not sure if there are enough cards to support The Lost Explorer, although I would need to check your other expansions again to know it for sure.
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The Sapper
Hello everyone, and thanks in advance for taking a look at my custom class! This class was inspired by my early days of playing Priest and loving the way the class’s primary removal wasn’t damage based. When I saw the Merchant class (one of the finalists of the first class design competition) and how it created a class without any damage I decided I wanted to take a stab at it. The Sapper is my attempt, and along with those two initial sources it includes my personal obsession with non-discard based ways of messing with your opponent’s hand, non-destroy based removal, and various other things. I hope you like it. Without further ado, onto to the cards!
First, if you saw the hero power and wondered what a ‘Basic Scourge’ is, let’s take a look at what the Hero Power creates:
As the tooltip implies, Scourges are sort of the anti-Spare Parts and represent uncollectable spells that hinder the caster or benefit the caster’s opponent. From a power perspective these Basic Scourges have an increased effect compared to a normal hero power (for instance, gaining 3 Armor compared to the Warrior HP) but are balanced by the fact that they are both randomly generated and at the discretion of your opponent. While it would be nice to have a quick and easy (2) Cost card draw, sometimes your opponent will be willing to live with a slightly higher mana cost if it means they can deny you.
BASIC SET
Outland Scout: The Sapper class doesn’t have reliable removal tools so I wanted to make sure they had a few core minions to help maintain board presence. The drawback is steep in most classes, and may even be detrimental in the early game, but Sapper’s want their opponent to have big hands. Initially I thought about making the drawback “Battlecry: Your opponent draws a card” but I think this current version entices your opponent to let it live longer.
Feint: A reprint, but also one of the main forms of ‘removal’ available to the class. My only regret is that Sap already claimed the name.
Lock Down: Another vital ‘removal’ tool. I keep going back and forth on this cost, but I think it makes the most sense here as the (2) Cost spell that takes care of a threat.
Reconnaissance: Sapper card draw is almost exclusively mutual, both because they want there opponent to have a lot of cards in hand but also because it allows them to draw more for less. The second part introduces how much the Sapper likes copies and shuffling, and helps to pad out a deck against a self-mill.
Cease Hostilities: The Sapper version of an AoE. Originally had this costing more and giving “Can’t Attack” but I reworked it to the current version. This won’t protect your minions but can give your hero some extra breathing room.
Divert: More removal, or maybe just delayal. This is the Sapper version of the (4) cost silence and put away spell ala Polymorph, although this version is more about putting off headaches until you can deal with them later.
Snare Mana: For when you want to make it as hard as possible for a problem to appear so you don’t have to actually solve it. Balanced around Loatheb, although now Rebuke has me questioning whether lowering it is possible (but not questioning it enough to actually change).
Cobalt Guardian: Our first Mech (as a note, Cost 1-5 minions will usually be goblins or otherwise humanoid level, while 6-10 will be Mechs), just a nice big basic body. Intended to get across that Mechs are there to help finish out the game as the big finishers.
Call in the Mechalvary: Meched up Animal Companion. H3-LM and LR-G3 are essentially (9) cost or beefed up (8) cost minions to serve as defense or a big target, while FR-3Z is more quirky and introduces the tertiary Freeze element of the class.
Brain Strain: I think every class should have a (10) Cost iconic spell, and this is my version for the Sapper. This would usually work out less than a card draw tool and more as a final milling attack. I keep switching between setting it at 6 or 7 cards, but ultimately settled on 7 as it’s a flashy jump over the current max of 5 cards.
Boombasket Recruit: Another cheap body with a drawback to help get a board set up. I could be talked into making this a Battlecry, but I like that as is it encourages ways to work around the Deathrattle.
See Ya!: I started off putting this at (1) but then worked out the Cost for this from both ends. Sap is worth two, but make it random and you get a (2) Cost reduction (although in this case the cost is actually needing a minion on the board you can return). On the other side, returning a friendly minion to your hand costs less than (0), so the random enemy return is a freebie.
Overclock Gambit: Out first (4) Cost Secret. Initially had this at both drawing 3 cards for the longest time, but I think 4 feels more correct, both for the cost and as a milling attack.
Reserves Gambit: The Sapper version of Duplicate, except you don’t get the extra copies until you draw them.
Chill Out: I believe I stole this from a Death Knight custom class (or maybe I stole it from every Death Knight class). Helpful for giving more breathing room, although more temporary.
Dread-Not: A take on Guardian of Kings and another reminder that Sappers like their opponents to have full hands. Armor gain isn’t a huge part of the Sapper identity, with the Basic Scourge being the main way, but it’s sprinkled throughout.
War Drums: The Sapper version of a board clear. Originally started off just as a single minion buff (with Immune and +1 Attack per card, but could still attack heroes) but changed to affect the whole board. Can’t attack heroes was added to emphasize what its intended for and to stop it from being too lolbroken.
Reroute Gambit: Sappers have an undercurrent of enchanted creature hate that will bloom more fully later, but the seeds are here. One sided Vanish with setup and a catch required.
Grizzled Grenadier: I firmly believe that forcing discards of things already in hand isn’t fun, but messing with Costs is. This maybe just forces them to wait a few more turns for their big Legendary, but could screw up a combo or leave them with a dead (10) cost early drop they didn’t play in time.
Arcanobot: Solid defense with a way to cheat it out a little early. 6/10 Taunt seems to be worth around (8), so if you have a Secret you get it for a little cheaper, and any more on the board allows for a real treat.
Juice Up: Sapper version of Blessing of Kings.
Decoy Gambit: My take on preventing imminent death ala Ice Block. I always got kind of annoyed that Ice Block essentially ended the turn, and I think this version gives some more opponent interaction.
Steamweedle Specialist: I’ve always liked giving minions in your hand Battlecries and Deathrattles, and this helps stuff your opponent with chaff they need to deal with. Note that the intention is that if you play this multiple times the effect on the other minions would stack.
Disrupt Logistics: Our introduction to Advanced Scourges. My initial drafts of the class had some very limited hard removal (mostly centered on enchanted minion hate) but didn’t feel right. Making it a Scourge allows it to be a little more powerful, but at your opponent’s discretion. You could also use this if your opponent has nothing on the board as a mill attack.
Rixmix Boomwizzle: I wanted the Classic Legendary to be something that, while maybe not a game-ender on its own, would find a welcome spot in most decks. This allows your effects that key off the opponent’s hand to have maximum punch and will mill one card on its own. Body should maybe be a 5/5?
Mind Control Gas: Turn any minion into Sylvanas! The class isn’t super big on Deathrattles, but I like that this functions as a Secret version of one.
[b]Blastshadow Spy[/b]: I’ve got a personal delight in “whenever this deals damage, do that many things” type effects. This is an early minion who will probably get picked off fast but can still gunk up the opponent’s hand, and if it manages to survive or get buffed it can really cause some frustration.
[b]L1 Observer[/b]: As the set that plays up Mechs of course I had to step up the Mech love for the class. This, as you might tell from the MtG art, is inspired by Affinity for Artifacts. I don’t think it’s as broken as it would be in that game, but this should still come out as at least a (4) Mountain Yeti, with some quicker plays if you get a lucky draw of Mechwarper copies.
[b]Ace Saboteur[/b]: This might be more of a neutral effect, but it’s something I wish had been printed in the actual set. I assume there would have been at least one Twitch stream where a minion kept ‘missing’ a Taunt and hitting face until the game was won.
[b]Boom Boom Add On[/b]: Spoiler alert, but this class will be giving a lot of love to Boom Bot in upcoming sets. This is a slight toe dip, as well as another Sapper-roundabout way of providing some AOE. Original version gave Mechs a deathrattle where they were shuffled back into the deck, but that was too wordy. Changed to just give them extra explosions.
[b]Degenerate Demolitionist[/b]: An extra point of Attack with a drawback.
[b]Rageforged[/b]: I told you I liked this kind of effect. This functions like a reverse trample, and gives some undirected damage to minions which the Sapper has in short supply.
[b]Kitbash Explosives[/b]: The AOE card for the set. Note that there are no class cards to generate Spare Parts so this card requires a bit of work. Intention with [b]Netherbomb[/b] is that the number is based directly on how many Spare Parts were discarded, it doesn’t upgrade or become a different card.
[b]Shredder Carrier X[/b]: I heard you like Mechs so I put some Mechs on your Mech. Geosculpter Yip inspired. Note that, based on my skim of the list, there are Cost (0)-(9) Mechs but this would be the first/only (10) Cost, so if your opponent has a full hand you get two!
Really cool ideas. I like the idea behind Scourges. Reminds me of the League of Exploreres adventure. Too bad the only collectable card we got out of that theme was Curse of Rafaam. I feel like other classes (Rogue or Druid) could have made much better use of that mechanic.
I've done a similar thing designing a custom class with 4 mana secrets and it's tough. You've done a good job. I feel like Reroute Gambit is a bit too specific, it's almost useless outside of the Paladin matchup, but maybe it's ok to have as a hate card or an unexpected play from a randomly generated spell.
The wording on "Commit the Unthinkable" is a little weird. I assume that it means your opponent takes fatigue dmg even if they have cards in their deck and that they don't actually draw a card. If that's what you mean then replacing "Draw a Fatigue card" with "take Fatigue damage" might be cleaner text.
Overall: Good stuff. If you want to keep making more I'd like to see them.
Check out my Mech Undatakah Pally deck: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1261460-undatakah-mech-pally
Thanks for the feedback.
Definitely agree on Reroute Gambit. My original trigger was “When an enemy minion is enchanted...” to cover buff spells, Battlecries, auras et al. But then I scared myself off that wording because I wasn’t sure how it would interact if the enemy had an ongoing buff, like Stormwind Champion, on the board at the start of their turn. Then I tried “When an enemy minion is targeted by a spell or Battlecry...” but it pushed it to five lines. I think I might just make it “when enchanted” and assume that the theoretical code would delineate and trigger only on a new enchantment.
Yes, intent of Commit the Unthinkable is that they start taking Fatigue damage even with a full deck, with the escalation that Fatigue naturally entails. I’ll be honest, I thought the Fatigue damage were their own cards, but looking over the wiki it appears that it’s just a way to show the damage.
More coming soon as I lock down art and names. Thanks again!
Nice! One nitpick though, isn't Feint identical to Sap?
Yep! It's meant to be similar to how Arcane Shot and Holy Smite are class copies of the same effect.
Based on the earlier notes I'm updating two cards:
is now and
is now
Naxx and GvG should be up later tonight or early tomorrow.
really cool ideas but i really don't like that feint is just a reskin of Sap it should have something extra, like "if an enemy minon has can't attack this does X/costs 1 less/gains echo"
Pretty cool ideas, it's amazing how many different ways of twisting a few effects you came up.
Balance wise, I think the legend should have a stat reduction. Vanilla stats are way to good for an unconditional "Use your hero power for free five-ish times".
Same could be said about Steamweedle Specialist.
Pretty decent set overall, but i dont like that brutal mill theme you have goin on there, some of the combos, especially with the secret, can burn through almost half of your opponents deck, not a fan of that.
But one card i love so much - Grizzled Grenadier - that is such a cool way to go about it. I dont normally like direct hand/deck attacks, but this one is rly smart and kinda bypasses the issue i have with them in general. You dont destroy the card outright, but you make it damn hard to play it, not impossible, but very difficult :)
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Thanks! The more I mull it over the more I agree about Rixmix. His body was in place from an earlier design where he shuffled cards into the opponent’s deck, so I figured a vanilla body was ok for a delayed effect. When I switched it to hand stuffing I kept forgetting the body. Is 5/5 still too beefy? Steamweedle I’m more comfortable with, it doesn’t have an immediate effect on its own and depends a lot on your hand composition for its power.
Thanks for the feedback, and the Grizzled Grenadier love. As to the milling, I confess that I’m a bigger fan of it than the median player, so that bias is going to justifiably turn some off. Is there a specific combo or set of cards you flagged? I’m not great at seeing those sort of interlocking timebombs just from looking at (or even creating) individual cards.
Mind Control Gas: Turn any minion into Sylvanas! The class isn’t super big on Deathrattles, but I like that this functions as a Secret version of one.
[b]Blastshadow Spy[/b]: I’ve got a personal delight in “whenever this deals damage, do that many things” type effects. This is an early minion who will probably get picked off fast but can still gunk up the opponent’s hand, and if it manages to survive or get buffed it can really cause some frustration.
[b]L1 Observer[/b]: As the set that plays up Mechs of course I had to step up the Mech love for the class. This, as you might tell from the MtG art, is inspired by Affinity for Artifacts. I don’t think it’s as broken as it would be in that game, but this should still come out as at least a (4) Mountain Yeti, with some quicker plays if you get a lucky draw of Mechwarper copies.
[b]Ace Saboteur[/b]: This might be more of a neutral effect, but it’s something I wish had been printed in the actual set. I assume there would have been at least one Twitch stream where a minion kept ‘missing’ a Taunt and hitting face until the game was won.
[b]Boom Boom Add On[/b]: Spoiler alert, but this class will be giving a lot of love to Boom Bot in upcoming sets. This is a slight toe dip, as well as another Sapper-roundabout way of providing some AOE. Original version gave Mechs a deathrattle where they were shuffled back into the deck, but that was too wordy. Changed to just give them extra explosions.
[b]Degenerate Demolitionist[/b]: An extra point of Attack with a drawback.
[b]Rageforged[/b]: I told you I liked this kind of effect. This functions like a reverse trample, and gives some undirected damage to minions which the Sapper has in short supply.
[b]Kitbash Explosives[/b]: The AOE card for the set. Note that there are no class cards to generate Spare Parts so this card requires a bit of work. Intention with [b]Netherbomb[/b] is that the number is based directly on how many Spare Parts were discarded, it doesn’t upgrade or become a different card.
[b]Shredder Carrier X[/b]: I heard you like Mechs so I put some Mechs on your Mech. Geosculpter Yip inspired. Note that, based on my skim of the list, there are Cost (0)-(9) Mechs but this would be the first/only (10) Cost, so if your opponent has a full hand you get two!
[b]Anvilrage Bruiser[/b]: The Sapper take on the ‘whenever damaged’ theme of Blackrock.
[b]Rally for Numbers[/b]: I really liked using Kel’Thuzad even if he was a giant target. The opponent can still play around this, leaving a straggler alive to finish off next turn for example, but it’s still an AOE-deterrent.
[b]Merchandise Spotlight[/b]: Moving forward Boom Bots will help to fill out a potential Sapper Zoo deck. They give a board presence and the potential for actually dealing damage, but undirected since it’s still a Sapper weak point.
[b]Ticket Scaler[/b]: The only direct “Hero Power” matters card for the set, this allows the Sapper to draw but also increases the opponent’s hand by 2. I made it low cost so it could be put on the board early and force the opponent to weigh whether the chance for them to draw cards is worth letting it stick around.
[b]Scouter Droid[/b]: This used to be a Classic card, but I didn’t think it merited never rotating out. I’ve always liked the design of Lightspawn and this is the Sapper take on that.
[b]Ordnance Hawker[/b]: The (3) Cost “Summon two 1/1 if [x]” cards seem to be a sub-sub-staple. Boom Bots are a bit more substantial than 1/1 Bats or Whelps, so I beefed up the trigger requirement.
[b]Fizzle Vial[/b]: Counters are hard in a game without ‘instants’ but I still think they should be more spread out than just Counterspell. I got the inspiration for this from a competitor in the last Class Creation competition, and then saw another separate custom class, both of which independently cost it at (2).
[b]Eject[/b]: Sapper AOE with a drawback. This is useful if you’re replacing a bunch of big beefy guys or a wall of Taunts, but if it’s a bunch of 1/1 weenie tokens you’ve given your opponent an upgrade.
Even the Odds Uncollectibles:
Banes:
Robot Guardians:
[b]Take a Dive[/b]: Anti-jousting tech card. It would probably be mean to label Millhouse Manastorm as a Scourge, but if the shoe fits….
[b]Even the Odds[/b]: This might be a just for me series of Scourges, but I liked having at least one set that was specifically tailored to the opponent class. I tried to make them all roughly equal and something the opponent could still play around.
[b]Dixink, Party Crasher[/b]: This is more of a fun legendary, although it also functions like a shuffle version of Brawl.
Nice work, as always.
However, I think most Even the Odds banes are too weak or at least situational considering you have to pay 10 mana to put them in your opponent's hand.
I mean, many priests don't run any healing nor damaging spells, for instance.
I think you should reduce the cost of the card and rework the effects that are good (mage and paladin, I would say)
Thanks! Yeah, I'm not completely satisfied with all the Banes. I kept being torn between balancing against the Robot Guardian swing and the actual in-hand effect. It's on my list of things to review.
It's a cool concept, I just think that the insane way to mill your opponent is too powerful. I've played some standard mill druid, and with only Naturalizes and Forest Guides I'm able to mill about 3-7 cards a game on average, if I play it right. With a lot of the cards in just the Basic set, you can construct a pretty brutal mill deck already. I do like a lot of the cards, I just think there's too much synergy for that type of deck.
[b]Goblin Archaeologist[/b]: It used to be more prevalent (and will come back a little later) but the Sapper’s focus on Secrets was a lot about getting to re-use Secrets that had already been revealed/triggered. Since it took extra set up to work (i.e. a Secret being both played and revealed) and your opponent had seen it before (i.e. lessened surprise) you get a Cost reduction. In the case of this card, you might also snare another class’s revealed Secret even if you haven’t played any of your own.
[b]Ancient Automaton[/b]: Another one of my personal favorite quirky cards are the 0-Attack with a twist minions. This essentially allows you to cast Sap on a few enemies while it sucks up 8 attack of damage, although your opponent can still play around the deathrattle or just destroy it with spells.
[b]Tomb Raiding Party[/b]: This is, realistically, a card that wouldn’t have been a class card, or at least not one during LoE itself. Using a newly introduced mechanic and then making it work in a different way would be too confusing. However, this is my set so Imma do what I want, at least for this instance. These three Secrets are ones I had been kicking around to be actual cards, but they all felt pretty niche and tech so I figured they’d make more sense as a bundle. I went back and forth on whether you’d get copies of all three of your opponent’s Discover options or just the ones they didn’t pick, but decided to treat it as a (4) cost draw 3 with the benefit of knowing what your opponent saw, if not necessarily what they chose.
[b]Goblin Cultist[/b]: A version of this used to be in the Basic or Classic set, sort of the Sapper version of the (1) 1/3 with a class twist. I kept edging it out, but I think it works great as the C’Thun buffer of the class.
[b]Ancient Invocations[/b]: Had a version of this closer to KnC (as deliberate anti-Spiteful Summoner tech) but I think it fits better in WotOG with all its big Cost-adjacent Cards. Played early this also has a side benefit of sticking your opponent with two extra cards they won’t be able to actually use for a while.
[b]Netherstorm Intimidator[/b]: Undirected Cost attack, but only for a turn. Useful if you think your opponent has pulled their Old God and you need to buy some time at the end game.
[b]Piloted Infection[/b]: One of the few flavor-based/top-down cards I’ve made. I just liked the idea of Mechs being ‘corrupted’ and tying that back into the Piloted Shredder class of cards.
[b]Apocalypse Engineer[/b]: The “If your C’Thun has 10 or more Attack” card for the class. The C’Thun benefit is a discount to your cards and not an increase on your opponent’s because this is the ‘corrupted’ set (and because I couldn’t make the opponent version fit on 4 lines).
[b]Glimpse at Yogg-Saron/Glance at Yogg-Saron[/b]: I had an idea for a card that essentially wouldn’t leave your hand, so I worked from there to find an effect that wouldn’t be too OP to always have. Luckily damage isn’t a part of the toolset, and I think this combo is fair. You’d essentially have to pay (4) to completely Lock Down an enemy. And of course, this would be a prime Yogg spell count booster.
[b]Corrupted Shredder[/b]: The corrupted and buffed up version of the “Whenever this damages a hero” effect. I gave it charge because I wanted to make sure it had a greater chance of impact.
[b]Outland Scrapper[/b]: My Sapper take on Spellsinger. Note that this encourages some careful timing on the Sapper’s part, because you can make sure that you play it after your opponent plays a Scourge, rather than one of their own spells.
[b]She Who Saw[/b]: My take on the corrupted version of Rixmix, upgrading the Scourges your opponent already has. I tried to balance the Whispers so that they can’t easily be sidestepped.
So, I quite like some of the general ideas here and your class has a cool theme. Tradecraft seems a bit complex for a base Hero Power, but I wouldn't say it NEEDS to be changed. However, having a class mostly focused on Mill might come off negatively to some people as Mill decks are the very anti-thesis of a TCG.
To give off some feedback though:
Basic
Classic
GvG
TGT
LoE
WotOG
I'm really hoping that I didn't come off as too negative when reviewing this. Everything that I didn't mention I think is fine, and I legitimately do like a lot of the ideas presented here. My absolute favorite card here is Take a Dive. I don't know if it'll ever be viable because Joust was a flop except for a few cards, but the idea is hilarious and awesome at the same time.
Click the image to go to my custom Time Traveler class.
Not at all, this is the kid of stuff I love to get! Let me go through and see if I have a valid rationale for some of your critiques, or whether I have to take it back to the drawing board.
For the cards where I copied a previously existing card name or messed up the formatting, that's just a Doh on my part. Will correct soon.
Lock Down: Heh, for such a simple effect this is definitely the one card that no one (even me) can settle on appropriate Cost. The Sapper Draft 0.01 version of this was costed (4). The earliest feedback I got was that that was way too high because when you're facing a board of aura effects and such stopping them from attacking is worthless. Since then I've steadily talked myself into lowering it down to (2). That's the level of conditional removal (Execute, Shadow Word: Pain) and a boatload of direct damage. For some decks without a way to grant taunt or sacrifice their own minions (whether intentionally or as part of all minion board wipes) it does cause a spot to be lost, but I don't think the effect itself should be overcosted based on its most powerful use.
Snare Mana: Mostly agree. I costed this when Loatheb was the primary reference point. I'm comfortable leaving it where it is, while I think Basic cards should generally be able to be used in every deck I also think there's bound to be some less than ideal cards in the works.
Overclock Gambit: Original intention was that it would trigger whenever your opponent had 6 cards in hand, including when they drew their 6th card or if they started their turn with 6. Does seem unclear, and might be too intentionally mill-y. I'm batting around "When your opponent draws two or more cards in a turn, both draw 3/4" so they actually have to trigger it.
Grizzled Grenadier: Aww, that's already someone else's favorite card. If it's set to (10) your opponent can still play it (even if its suboptimal at that point).
Decoy Gambit: Good point about the Passive Hero Power thing, I wanted it there to indicate that the Sapper (and their near death life total) will return, but couldn't think of another way to frame it. I don't want to take it out of the Classic set because I think the Sapper deserves to have a lifesaver secret that doesn't rotate (although RIP to Ice Block so maybe it's just an inherently hard effect to keep in).
Rixmix: The guaranteed one card mill is intentional. Do you consider the effect OP on its own, or in combination with his vanilla stats. Knocking those down is on my to do list, probably to a 4/4 or maybe 3/3.
L1 Observer: Sapper doesn't swarm Mechs (since they're all 6-10 Cost) but there were plenty of Mechs just in GvG. I figure this would usually be gotten out for (4) so it'd be on par, anything beyond that would be gravy.
Degenerate Demolitionist: No, you pretty much got it. Are you saying the stat increase for the downside isn't good enough? Unlike something like Hoarding Dragon you can get to decide if your opponent has any Scourges in their hand before you play to minimize or even eliminate the downside.
Even the Odds: Agreed, some of these were first drafts or off the cuff. Will probably be tinkering with them for awhile.
Tomb Raiding Party: I agree with your assessment, but I see it as a feature of the card and not a bug; They're edge cases that I liked enough to include somewhere, but definitely not enough to justify an actual card (at least without some big revamping). I do think the vast majority of time you'll end up picking (whatever I rename) Finders Keepers just because it's omni-applicable, but LoE and later sets will develop a sub-theme of Sapper Secret situations that are basically "A trap you knowingly walk into is still a trap."
Goblin Cultist: True. I think Sapper's would benefit a little bit more because Scourges are also considered spells, but the history of that effect isn't sterling. One that I kept putting back on, and then taking off, was a (1) 0/2 "Whenever your opponent draws a card get +1/+1" since by the next turn it would be an effective 1/3. Not sure if that would snowball too quickly though.
Apocalypse Engineer: Wow, I hadn't done the maths for the C'Thun effects I guess. Would a steeper Cost reduction be warranted then?
Glimpse of Yogg-Saron: That's another one I see as a feature, not a bug. Although I guess a big part of that might be how we feel the true cost of a "Can't Attack" effect should be?
She Who Saw: Heh, that's from the Kill la Kill anime. The main character's living armor goes berserk and turns her into a monster. I thought it looked both goblin-y and Old Gods corrupted-y enough.
Thanks again, this really helped.
[b]Aractraz Portal[/b]: Earlier drafts of the class were more focused on gumming up the opponent’s deck with cards that would disrupt their draws, like shuffling Coins or deleterious cards. Further refinement led me to believe that that would be less fun to play against, so the focus was shifted to stuffing the opponent’s hand and Scourges. However, I still became attached to some of that deck stuffing, like this portal with the Scourge-esque Millhouse. Also functions as Kabal disruptor once Gadgetzan gets released.
[b]Karazhan Cooler[/b]: Not too much to say. A lot of the “can’t attack” cards are on spells, this seemed like a simple effect to put on a minion.
[b]Bounce[/b]: The anti-enchantment theme of Sappers begins to rouse itself. While weak against Zoo decks who just flood the board, this would be a hefty deterrent against token/buffing decks. You can also enchant enemies and then play this, which works in a pinch if you’re willing to spend a few more cards.
[b]Shake Down[/b]: Rather than come up with a fourth gang, I decided to put the Sapper into the Grimy Goons. The class has a bunch of shuffle into deck effects so the Kabal was right out. I tooled around with some Jade cards, but a lot of it felt like riffs on Jade Idol. Grimy Goons was easier to think up ideas for, plus they have more goblins in their art. Shake Down is the Scourge take on hand buffing, putting the choice in your opponent’s hand but also gumming up their other costs. Was originally “Can’t draw cards while this is in your hand” but that seemed so onerous that there effectively was no choice of whether to cast it.
[b] RP-LI-K-T0R[/b]: Like Hunter specialized in buffing Beasts, and Warrior buffed Taunts/weapons, the Sapper specializes in buffing Mech. This is part of a cycle of “buffed Mechs matter” cards. Hopefully it comes across clear enough; Intention is that if you hand-buffed this to a 6/6 (or whatever) the copy shuffled in would also be a 6/6 instead of a vanilla copy. This way it could continue to grow throughout the game.
[b]Grimestreet Hustler[/b]: The Sapper version of a vanilla buffing card.
[b]Reroute Riot[/b]: A one-sided board return intended to prevent or alleviate a rush. This would probably require a lot of skill, or luck, to use; If you time it right you can return the entire board full of 10/10+ Jades, but if your opponent is cautious or just had nothing to play you’d only nab maybe one minion.
[b]Iterative Smuggling[/b]: The Mech focused hand buff. I wanted it to be returnable, to match the name, but since the Mech has to have been summoned before you cast the spell it requires some work to get.
[b]Chop Shopper[/b]: Another in the “buffed Mechs matter” cycle. Inspired by [b]Rat Pack[/b], beefing up to Boom Bots based on needing a Mech already in play and losing it to shuffling.
[b]Back Alley Vendor[/b]: I liked the Boom Bot Re-Up card for the way it helps to give some (unreliable) board presence. Not sure if this would become an instant target since the threat is so delayed.
[b]Crowd Control Unit[/b]: Inspiration for this came from the Pokemon Hero entry into the Class Creation Competition a few iterations ago. That class had a spell that shuffled all enemy minions with less than 2 Attack into the opponent’s deck. This is my Mech twist on that. If you manage to hand buff it enough you can do a board shuffle.
[b]Crowd Pummeler Mk XI[/b]: The end of the “buffed Mechs matter” cycle. Since this is an aura effect the opponent can still neutralize it with spells, or even bigger minions they have.
[b]Jungle Geographer[/b]: This is a common quest booster, but also in the vein of earlier cards allowing for a bigger body with a drawback. In this case, you need a minion on the board you’re willing to shuffle, and in return you get an extra mana worth of stats.
[b]Red Queen Race[/b]: A Secret take on Evolving Spores, giving your minions two Adapt bonuses for the same Cost at the drawback of not being able to control when it goes off.
[b]Tribal Scout[/b]: What Gadgetzan Ferryman should have been, don’t @ me. Original design was more focused on returning this to your hand through different triggers (getting injured, enemy spelled played, etc.) but it was too wordy and fiddly.
[b]Escape the Stampede[/b]: Quest booster and AoE. Ideal if you’re playing with an empty board, but if not you have to be willing to give up your presence while merely delaying your opponent’s.
[b]Exotic Tinkering[/b]: A Boom Bots matter card. Fingers crossed for Poisonous!
[b]Jungle Colossus[/b]: The Sapper entry into “if you played an Elemental last turn” along with this set’s advanced Scourge. My attempt to twist the “while in hand effect,” this encourages your opponent to hold on to it for longer (which means effects that key off cards in hand are more powerful) or bite the Boom Bot and take the full amount of repetitions.
[b]Crater Goblin[/b]: This is another card that plays off the fact that your opponent is more likely to have non-helpful Scourge spells while you have beneficial spells only. Even if you get unlucky and your opponent plays only their spells you still keep their hand size from going down.
[b]Lakkari Serenader[/b]: More enchanted minion hate. Note that Adapt-ed minions are enchanted, so this set will probably allow this to have a higher hit rate than normal.
[b]Spraggle Frock[b]: Actually based on a Tavern Brawl idea, this is probably my most esoteric/weird legendary. Essentially, while this is on the board you make a metagame of minion play order and mana costs. The Sapper deck will be filled to take advantage of repeatable Battlecries and cheap minions, while the opponent would need to get rid of this before they could actually use their high cost minions, lest it get bounced right after they play. As a note, if you play Spraggle alone/first she’ll be bounced back on the same turn!
[b]The Lost Explorer[/b] and [b]Dr. Boom, I Presume[/b]: The Sapper quest. Shuffling things into the deck is about on par with playing the same minion over and over ala the Rogue quest, but since you’re usually shuffling multiples I upped the number. Flavor-wise, the shuffled cards are the rescue expedition to find Dr. Boom, who I guess got lost in Un’Goro and discovered a cache of Boom Bots he can share. Note that if you manage to replay him multiple times the effects will stack, so if you manage to return and play him three times all minions will have “Battlecry: Fill the board with 1/1 Boom Bots.”
Cool stuff, but I feel there are a few issues:
Red Queen Race would never activate, as secrets trigger on your opponent's turn and all adapt effects happen on your turn.
Boom Fever scourge feels weak to me. I mean, if I'm not missing something, it's just a card that will be in your opponent's hand for three turns (when it loses its effect completely), so it's only useful for mill. To make things worse, you have to play an understated minion that breaks your elemental chain (we know this is pretty disruptive thanks to Tol'vir Stoneshaper)
Finally, I'm not sure if there are enough cards to support The Lost Explorer, although I would need to check your other expansions again to know it for sure.