If you'd like a singular individual to blame, you can aim that square at me, I guess. Determining each theme is a group effort, certainly, between the various mods and the WCDC winner who proposes them. However, I was arguably the one who pushed for them the most, and was most open to repeating an old theme (or two...or four). With that in mind I'm going to defend the move, as there are a couple things to consider:
1. Some of these themes are two years old, and a lot has changed since then. The game has evolved, with new Keywords, new tribes, and even new card types having since come into existence. By revisiting these older themes, we can expand upon the original showing with newer concepts and ideas, with cards that quite simply would not have existed back then.
The Battlecry + Deathrattle theme, for example, was on August 24th, 2016; immediately following One Night in Karazhan's release but four months before Mean Streets of Gadgetzan. At the time, only two cards existed with a Battlecry and a Deathrattle simultaneously: Toshley from Goblins vs Gnomes, and Xaril, Poisoned Mind from Whispers of the Old Gods. Since then, that number has tripled to six cards, has moved outside the realm of Legendary minions with Bellringer Sentry, and even added a weapon into the mix with Blood Razor. Finalists like Kovachut's Shado-Pan Youngling (Rush) and YoThat's winning Xal'atath (Lifesteal, Legendary weapon) use Keywords and concepts that did not exist back then or were relegated to a single card at the time (Mistress of Pain from GvG).
2. Something else to be mindful of is our ever-growing pool of participants. Our long-time members might have been here for the original incarnation of the theme, and to them this move could be seen as a simple rehash. But that's not true of everyone - myself included. Revisiting an older theme gives newer members a chance to flex their creative ambitions regarding the concept, rather than being two years late to a one-time-only party they weren't even aware of at the time. Simultaneously, veterans are provided the opportunity to try again: replaying a theme from a past where they possibly were not as experienced or learned, where their original attempt perhaps wasn't very successful. They can also demonstrate how their decision-making paradigms have evolved alongside the game itself.
3. Quite frankly, the pool of theoretical theme ideas is a finite one. Unless we move in radical directions to generate new WCDC concepts, eventually we'll hit 'em all outside of the occasional new batch as additional expansions are released. As more ideas become actual themes, we add to the ever-growing list; if we were to put our collective foot down and demand no repeats now-and-forever, we card-creators as a group would become more and more restricted over time as we struggle to come up with 100% original ideas. "That's too close to X, from 2016." "We did this one four years ago." "That's just Y, but with a different mana cost/tribe/some other variable." I'm not saying we've reached a state of creative-stagnation already, but stubbornly refusing to draw from the old well pushes us down that road faster.
4. Maybe this is #BlameShifting, but if a theoretical theme-winner doesn't provide us with totally-new ideas we can take advantage of, the onus falls on us to come up with one on the spot or accept what we were given. We work with WCDC winners and bounce ideas back-and-forth as best we can, but sometimes we just simply cannot manage it on time. Maybe the winner was busy and couldn't respond with some new concepts early enough; maybe us mods were busy, and couldn't adapt to their new answer fast enough. Ultimately, we have a deadline to post a new theme on each subsequent Wednesday, and if few (or no) other mods are available it falls to the person remaining to post what they can...even if that means following a "something old is better than nothing at all" thought process. Or even just an "I came up with a theme on the spot and failed to realize we had already done it" situation lol
TL;DR:
*shrugs* I will concede that four repeats in one Season might have been too many all at once, but I for one stand by the decision I and the other mods made at the time. We can dial it back, but it's a situation I'm not sure will truly go away...hopefully being honest and open about it helps. At least, this post is my own thoughts on the matter, so you can take it for what you will; I don't speak for everyone.
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
Still waiting on a “So Much Pun” theme where the card has to be a lighthearted pun such as Anyfin Can Happen, Book Wyrm, Babbling Book, or Zola the Gorgon.
Still waiting on a “So Much Pun” theme where the card has to be a lighthearted pun such as Anyfin Can Happen, Book Wyrm, Babbling Book, or Zola the Gorgon.
This. Literally unplayable atm.
Totally not salty that I never made on to the final poll feelsbadman.
Still waiting on a “So Much Pun” theme where the card has to be a lighthearted pun such as Anyfin Can Happen, Book Wyrm, Babbling Book, or Zola the Gorgon.
Naming competitions are harder for people who have primary languages other than English. Culture differences are also why we generally try to avoid flavor competitions related to localized pop-culture, quotes, book/movie/TV show references and the like. It creates an unfair playing field for people outside those circles; namely non-Americans, considering how pushy we are with our various entertainment creations.
Not saying it's impossible, but it can be problematic. The voting for Deathwing Class Competition criteria showed us that: naming options were not well regarded :/
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
Although I didn't participate much I did lurk and read a lot, although not providing much in the way of feedback. I really enjoyed seeing y'alls stuff. I'm excited to jump back into this with season 8.
How does Blizzard handle these puns in other languages? I’d like to see idioms, oronyms , and puns from other cultures anyway.
Most of them are lost in translation (in the case of French at least). I can't see any way around this. In some rare cases they manage to find another pun/reference in the local language that's just as good.
Admit it though, you want a pun comp because you're 100% guaranteed to win it lel
How does Blizzard handle these puns in other languages? I’d like to see idioms, oronyms , and puns from other cultures anyway.
Most of them are lost in translation (in the case of French at least). I can't see any way around this. In some rare cases they manage to find another pun/reference in the local language that's just as good.
Admit it though, you want a pun comp because you're 100% guaranteed to win it lel
Pretty much what Cheese said, majority of puns from other languages will get lost in translation and even if we could translate it so it would make sense (not a literal translations), it would just not be as smooth and obvious, after all the word play is usually what makes it work. And even if we left it in the original language, you would have to google the meaning and would most likely end up with the same (or worse) result.
Im personally not against this comp, i would like to see what can ppl come up with, but mby we can save it for one of the mini-comps rather than for a regular one.
Haven't been online in like 2 or 3 months because of life. Great to see there's another season finished and a new one beginning soon!
I loved participating in the big competition this season (and hooray my buddies took first and second spot). I don't participate often in the weeklies, because I like bigger projects more. I feel weeklies are about flavor too much, where big comps are about all aspects of good card creation (flavor, balance, stat and cost distribution, syngergies, viability, deck building opportunities..etc..).
On the other hand, there's one thing that bugs me with the big comps: they are BIG. Don't get me wrong, I like that because of the reasons just mentioned but I think there are two problems:
I never have time. I got a full time job, leave the house at 07:00 and return at 19:30, five times a week. Also, friend, family, girlfriend, chores, gaming etc etc etc. Sure I can make some time, but it's kind of hard doing this for about two months straight. I know I'm not the only one here struggling with this.
With the competition lasting longer and longer, more people start to lose interest. In the last couple of rounds, the amount of people being interested in the competition is reduced drastically. You also saw this in the reactions on the posts on the main page. During this time, all people that dropped out the comp are not able to participate which is kind of boring for them too (having to wait for half a year before entering again).
If my opinion is in anyway helpful, I'd suggest making 'medium' sized competitions. I think this can be done in numerous ways. One way I think of is this (class creation in this example):
Three rounds to create Basic and Classic sets. After three rounds, one winner is determined. After that, a new comp is started in which the top three (or five?) finishers of the previous comp are used by ALL participants to create the Journey to Un'Goro and Knights of the Frozen Thrones sets (the creators of the classes can't choose their own). Again, a winner is determined after three rounds. Than, a third comp is started in which everyone can participate again but only the winning class of the previous round is an option (doing the next sets).
I know this idea has it's own problems, like creations could be very similar etc. But I think we could definitely find something here that would fit the medium sized comp. An idea like this helps the problems of one big comp; you can choose to participate in one, two or three medium sized comps (I would probably just do one), and everyone can participate more during this period.
Just my two cents. How is everyone btw! =)
Damn, do you even sleep?:D How do you have time for anything with these work hours :o I started a new job recently, but luckily, it aint that bad, phew.
I leave for work at 6am and get home around 6pm (if i have no errands to run) M-F, this with wife and kids, so I will never have time to do the big competitions. >_>
What if the big competitions had no elimination but instead you earns points for each round and the overall winner wasn't revealed until end. May keep more people invested longer.
I leave for work at 6am and get home around 6pm (if i have no errands to run) M-F, this with wife and kids, so I will never have time to do the big competitions. >_>
What if the big competitions had no elimination but instead you earns points for each round and the overall winner wasn't revealed until end. May keep more people invested longer.
This is a great idea. It's absolutely gutting getting eliminated when you know you've got so many ideas for future rounds. It puts you off bothering next time. A points league would solve that and also would help when people just drop out due to irl commitments.
I leave for work at 6am and get home around 6pm (if i have no errands to run) M-F, this with wife and kids, so I will never have time to do the big competitions. >_>
What if the big competitions had no elimination but instead you earns points for each round and the overall winner wasn't revealed until end. May keep more people invested longer.
This is a great idea. It's absolutely gutting getting eliminated when you know you've got so many ideas for future rounds. It puts you off bothering next time. A points league would solve that and also would help when people just drop out due to irl commitments.
I second this, this is a fantastic idea to keep interest up. There would probably be some transparency for scores to let you know where you stand, but you should be judged on the majority of your set, not just the most recent expansion! Some eliminations every few rounds (and for the finalists) to keep it from being too busy. Also more challanges that help you reveal a future card.
I leave for work at 6am and get home around 6pm (if i have no errands to run) M-F, this with wife and kids, so I will never have time to do the big competitions. >_>
What if the big competitions had no elimination but instead you earns points for each round and the overall winner wasn't revealed until end. May keep more people invested longer.
This is a great idea. It's absolutely gutting getting eliminated when you know you've got so many ideas for future rounds. It puts you off bothering next time. A points league would solve that and also would help when people just drop out due to irl commitments.
I second this, this is a fantastic idea to keep interest up. There would probably be some transparency for scores to let you know where you stand, but you should be judged on the majority of your set, not just the most recent expansion! Some eliminations every few rounds (and for the finalists) to keep it from being too busy. Also more challanges that help you reveal a future card.
I third this. I think this would be a great thing to try out for a future big comp.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click the image to go to my custom Time Traveler class.
I leave for work at 6am and get home around 6pm (if i have no errands to run) M-F, this with wife and kids, so I will never have time to do the big competitions. >_>
What if the big competitions had no elimination but instead you earns points for each round and the overall winner wasn't revealed until end. May keep more people invested longer.
This is a great idea.
I second this,
I third this.
I fourth this.
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
Allowing every contestant to pursue his idea up to the final set will overwhelm voters with shit tons of sets of often unequal quality. Also, it can be a penalty for contestants who thought they would fare well but didn't, and wouldn't have done so much effort if they knew.
There's a much more obvious option to help people with little free time: increase the duration of each phase. Like 1-2 weeks more than what we had last comp for each phase.
I leave for work at 6am and get home around 6pm (if i have no errands to run) M-F, this with wife and kids, so I will never have time to do the big competitions. >_>
What if the big competitions had no elimination but instead you earns points for each round and the overall winner wasn't revealed until end. May keep more people invested longer.
I leave for work at 6am and get home around 6pm (if i have no errands to run) M-F, this with wife and kids, so I will never have time to do the big competitions. >_>
What if the big competitions had no elimination but instead you earns points for each round and the overall winner wasn't revealed until end. May keep more people invested longer.
This is a great idea.
I second this,
I third this.
I fourth this.
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER I fifth this.
I sixth this.
I disagree. I think that there should be an initial elimination phase, to weed out the ideas that don't work in Hearthstone, but there shouldn't be any more elimination after that, because all of the other ideas are workable and can be developed further.
I leave for work at 6am and get home around 6pm (if i have no errands to run) M-F, this with wife and kids, so I will never have time to do the big competitions. >_>
What if the big competitions had no elimination but instead you earns points for each round and the overall winner wasn't revealed until end. May keep more people invested longer.
This is a great idea.
I second this,
I third this.
I fourth this.
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER I fifth this.
I sixth this.
I disagree. I think that there should be an initial elimination phase, to weed out the ideas that don't work in Hearthstone, but there shouldn't be any more elimination after that, because all of the other ideas are workable and can be developed further.
On phone, can't squish this, too bad :P
Heres a compromise: 3 eliminations. 1 to weed out initial ideas, a half-way elim after 2-3 rounds, and then a final elim that narrows down to 4 finalists.
Idk if it's possible to do on hearthpwn, but I saw how Reddit is doing weekly card design competition and they have pretty good idea. What if in Submission Topic submissions would be randomized? I mean whenever you refresh the page, the different submissions will show up.
It would need a lot of work to implement, but would solve the First Page arguments.
Unfortunately this creates a problem that we've had in Hearthstone practically since the game was launched...
RNG
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click the image to go to my custom Time Traveler class.
Idk if it's possible to do on hearthpwn, but I saw how Reddit is doing weekly card design competition and they have pretty good idea. What if in Submission Topic submissions would be randomized? I mean whenever you refresh the page, the different submissions will show up.
It would need a lot of work to implement, but would solve the First Page arguments.
Pretty sure that is not within this forum's capabilities.
On the subject of repeat competitions:
If you'd like a singular individual to blame, you can aim that square at me, I guess. Determining each theme is a group effort, certainly, between the various mods and the WCDC winner who proposes them. However, I was arguably the one who pushed for them the most, and was most open to repeating an old theme (or two...or four). With that in mind I'm going to defend the move, as there are a couple things to consider:
1. Some of these themes are two years old, and a lot has changed since then. The game has evolved, with new Keywords, new tribes, and even new card types having since come into existence. By revisiting these older themes, we can expand upon the original showing with newer concepts and ideas, with cards that quite simply would not have existed back then.
The Battlecry + Deathrattle theme, for example, was on August 24th, 2016; immediately following One Night in Karazhan's release but four months before Mean Streets of Gadgetzan. At the time, only two cards existed with a Battlecry and a Deathrattle simultaneously: Toshley from Goblins vs Gnomes, and Xaril, Poisoned Mind from Whispers of the Old Gods. Since then, that number has tripled to six cards, has moved outside the realm of Legendary minions with Bellringer Sentry, and even added a weapon into the mix with Blood Razor. Finalists like Kovachut's Shado-Pan Youngling (Rush) and YoThat's winning Xal'atath (Lifesteal, Legendary weapon) use Keywords and concepts that did not exist back then or were relegated to a single card at the time (Mistress of Pain from GvG).
2. Something else to be mindful of is our ever-growing pool of participants. Our long-time members might have been here for the original incarnation of the theme, and to them this move could be seen as a simple rehash. But that's not true of everyone - myself included. Revisiting an older theme gives newer members a chance to flex their creative ambitions regarding the concept, rather than being two years late to a one-time-only party they weren't even aware of at the time. Simultaneously, veterans are provided the opportunity to try again: replaying a theme from a past where they possibly were not as experienced or learned, where their original attempt perhaps wasn't very successful. They can also demonstrate how their decision-making paradigms have evolved alongside the game itself.
3. Quite frankly, the pool of theoretical theme ideas is a finite one. Unless we move in radical directions to generate new WCDC concepts, eventually we'll hit 'em all outside of the occasional new batch as additional expansions are released. As more ideas become actual themes, we add to the ever-growing list; if we were to put our collective foot down and demand no repeats now-and-forever, we card-creators as a group would become more and more restricted over time as we struggle to come up with 100% original ideas. "That's too close to X, from 2016." "We did this one four years ago." "That's just Y, but with a different mana cost/tribe/some other variable." I'm not saying we've reached a state of creative-stagnation already, but stubbornly refusing to draw from the old well pushes us down that road faster.
4. Maybe this is #BlameShifting, but if a theoretical theme-winner doesn't provide us with totally-new ideas we can take advantage of, the onus falls on us to come up with one on the spot or accept what we were given. We work with WCDC winners and bounce ideas back-and-forth as best we can, but sometimes we just simply cannot manage it on time. Maybe the winner was busy and couldn't respond with some new concepts early enough; maybe us mods were busy, and couldn't adapt to their new answer fast enough. Ultimately, we have a deadline to post a new theme on each subsequent Wednesday, and if few (or no) other mods are available it falls to the person remaining to post what they can...even if that means following a "something old is better than nothing at all" thought process. Or even just an "I came up with a theme on the spot and failed to realize we had already done it" situation lol
TL;DR:
*shrugs* I will concede that four repeats in one Season might have been too many all at once, but I for one stand by the decision I and the other mods made at the time. We can dial it back, but it's a situation I'm not sure will truly go away...hopefully being honest and open about it helps. At least, this post is my own thoughts on the matter, so you can take it for what you will; I don't speak for everyone.
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
Still waiting on a “So Much Pun” theme where the card has to be a lighthearted pun such as Anyfin Can Happen, Book Wyrm, Babbling Book, or Zola the Gorgon.
This. Literally unplayable atm.
Totally not salty that I never made on to the final poll feelsbadman.
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
Naming competitions are harder for people who have primary languages other than English. Culture differences are also why we generally try to avoid flavor competitions related to localized pop-culture, quotes, book/movie/TV show references and the like. It creates an unfair playing field for people outside those circles; namely non-Americans, considering how pushy we are with our various entertainment creations.
Not saying it's impossible, but it can be problematic. The voting for Deathwing Class Competition criteria showed us that: naming options were not well regarded :/
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
How does Blizzard handle these puns in other languages? I’d like to see idioms, oronyms , and puns from other cultures anyway.
Although I didn't participate much I did lurk and read a lot, although not providing much in the way of feedback. I really enjoyed seeing y'alls stuff. I'm excited to jump back into this with season 8.
Most of them are lost in translation (in the case of French at least). I can't see any way around this. In some rare cases they manage to find another pun/reference in the local language that's just as good.
Admit it though, you want a pun comp because you're 100% guaranteed to win it lel
Custom cards :
CLASSES : Alchemist (CCC#5 | Phase V) | Chef (CCC#4)
EXPANSIONS : Year of the Scorpion (Year Comp)
Pretty much what Cheese said, majority of puns from other languages will get lost in translation and even if we could translate it so it would make sense (not a literal translations), it would just not be as smooth and obvious, after all the word play is usually what makes it work. And even if we left it in the original language, you would have to google the meaning and would most likely end up with the same (or worse) result.
Im personally not against this comp, i would like to see what can ppl come up with, but mby we can save it for one of the mini-comps rather than for a regular one.
- Click Here To Join Us On Discord! -
Damn, do you even sleep?:D How do you have time for anything with these work hours :o I started a new job recently, but luckily, it aint that bad, phew.
- Click Here To Join Us On Discord! -
I leave for work at 6am and get home around 6pm (if i have no errands to run) M-F, this with wife and kids, so I will never have time to do the big competitions. >_>
What if the big competitions had no elimination but instead you earns points for each round and the overall winner wasn't revealed until end. May keep more people invested longer.
This is a great idea. It's absolutely gutting getting eliminated when you know you've got so many ideas for future rounds. It puts you off bothering next time. A points league would solve that and also would help when people just drop out due to irl commitments.
I second this, this is a fantastic idea to keep interest up. There would probably be some transparency for scores to let you know where you stand, but you should be judged on the majority of your set, not just the most recent expansion! Some eliminations every few rounds (and for the finalists) to keep it from being too busy. Also more challanges that help you reveal a future card.
Currently working on the Tinker! K&C and WW / JUG and KotFT / Classic / Basic / Introduction
My Previous Classes: Apothecary (unfinished) / Chronomancer / Death Knight (old)
My Previous Expansions: Hallow's End
I third this. I think this would be a great thing to try out for a future big comp.
Click the image to go to my custom Time Traveler class.
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
Allowing every contestant to pursue his idea up to the final set will overwhelm voters with shit tons of sets of often unequal quality. Also, it can be a penalty for contestants who thought they would fare well but didn't, and wouldn't have done so much effort if they knew.
There's a much more obvious option to help people with little free time: increase the duration of each phase. Like 1-2 weeks more than what we had last comp for each phase.
Custom cards :
CLASSES : Alchemist (CCC#5 | Phase V) | Chef (CCC#4)
EXPANSIONS : Year of the Scorpion (Year Comp)
I sixth this.
Wished to be pink.
Then did.
Then fired myself.
Then did again.
I disagree. I think that there should be an initial elimination phase, to weed out the ideas that don't work in Hearthstone, but there shouldn't be any more elimination after that, because all of the other ideas are workable and can be developed further.
On phone, can't squish this, too bad :P
Heres a compromise: 3 eliminations. 1 to weed out initial ideas, a half-way elim after 2-3 rounds, and then a final elim that narrows down to 4 finalists.
Currently working on the Tinker! K&C and WW / JUG and KotFT / Classic / Basic / Introduction
My Previous Classes: Apothecary (unfinished) / Chronomancer / Death Knight (old)
My Previous Expansions: Hallow's End
And with the above, there could still be polls between rounds so everyone knows how theirs is being received, but no eliminations due to it.
Currently working on the Tinker! K&C and WW / JUG and KotFT / Classic / Basic / Introduction
My Previous Classes: Apothecary (unfinished) / Chronomancer / Death Knight (old)
My Previous Expansions: Hallow's End
Unfortunately this creates a problem that we've had in Hearthstone practically since the game was launched...
RNG
Click the image to go to my custom Time Traveler class.
Pretty sure that is not within this forum's capabilities.
- Click Here To Join Us On Discord! -