I'm still puzzled why Tiny Infeastion on page 1 has avoided being disqualified.
The card is builds on the exact same idea as my Minimal Infeastion from week 6.09.
Furthermore, the requirement for the promt hasen't really been met, since the Mana Crystal effect is just about irrelevant. The card could just have costed (0). And yes, people have been disqualified in earlier competitions for this exact reason. (Myself included).
It's a bit of a leap to claim plagiarism here. Making a parody of Ultimate Infestation is hardly original, and it is highly unlikely he copied you. But you have a point with the Mana Crystal thing. If you really think it should be disqualified, you should PM Shadowsofsense.
I think you have seen me ranting well enough that i would not have tried to do anything about it if it exclusively was about the card resembling one of my ideas. I briefly mentioned it last week with my submission and Broeck1's. But the conversation was atleast a friendly one.
I even defended it's legitmacy, as it was not identical, and on a different forum.
But the Mana Crystal thing should disqualify it. The only point where i can see it making a difference would be if you had exactly 9 Mana, and want to play this with Malygos. The idea has clearly been altered to narrowingly seem like it fits the competition.
I'm still puzzled why Tiny Infeastion on page 1 has avoided being disqualified.
The card is builds on the exact same idea as my Minimal Infeastion from week 6.09.
Furthermore, the requirement for the promt hasen't really been met, since the Mana Crystal effect is just about irrelevant. The card could just have costed (0). And yes, people have been disqualified in earlier competitions for this exact reason. (Myself included).
It's a bit of a leap to claim plagiarism here. Making a parody of Ultimate Infestation is hardly original, and it is highly unlikely he copied you. But you have a point with the Mana Crystal thing. If you really think it should be disqualified, you should PM Shadowsofsense.
I think you have seen me ranting well enough that i would not have tried to do anything about it if it exclusively was about the card resembling one of my ideas. I briefly mentioned it last week with my submission and Broeck1's. But the conversation was atleast a friendly one.
I even defended it's legitmacy, as it was not identical, and on a different forum.
But the Mana Crystal thing should disqualify it. The only point where i can see it making a difference would be if you had exactly 9 Mana, and want to play this with Malygos. The idea has clearly been altered to narrowingly seem like it fits the competition.
There's other fringe situations where it would make a difference, like if you used all your mana to play a card that gives a draw, and you draw this. But that hardly matters since these situations would almost never arise, and the card text would be cluttered perpetually. Proper design would be to take out the mana crystal part and have it cost 0. I agree that the effect feels really tacked on.
Also, the mods don't always catch everything before their final sweep right before voting, and they don't always put the under review tag on. People complain about that, but they're only human with limited time. PMing them will be sure to get them to review it if they haven't already.
But the Mana Crystal thing should disqualify it. The only point where i can see it making a difference would be if you had exactly 9 Mana, and want to play this with Malygos. The idea has clearly been altered to narrowingly seem like it fits the competition.
I don't agree with that, actually. The competition prompt was just to use the phrase "Mana Crystal" in the text, not that it has to involve a practical involving Mana Crystals. This is exactly the kind of design that I would imagine someone coming up with without realizing the +1 Mana Crystal is superfluous (I didn't even realize that when I first read the card; the Ultimate Infestation parody is distracting and easily could have distracted the creator), and similar if not identical sorts of misunderstandings are all over this discussion thread, particularly with card wording.
But the Mana Crystal thing should disqualify it. The only point where i can see it making a difference would be if you had exactly 9 Mana, and want to play this with Malygos. The idea has clearly been altered to narrowingly seem like it fits the competition.
I don't agree with that, actually. The competition prompt was just to use the phrase "Mana Crystal" in the text, not that it has to involve a practical involving Mana Crystals. This is exactly the kind of design that I would imagine someone coming up with without realizing the +1 Mana Crystal is superfluous (I didn't even realize that when I first read the card; the Ultimate Infestation parody is distracting and easily could have distracted the creator), and similar if not identical sorts of misunderstandings are all over this discussion thread, particularly with card wording.
Several people in earlier competitions has been disqualified for this exact reason. It would be unfair to them to allow this to advance.
I could probaly find more examples, but the topic was last put up in the 6.09 competition, regarding a Dat_Boi_Eow, who diden't reach the finals, because one of the "1" letters was in the cards name.
Another example would be from my personal experience, where i was disqualified with My Captain Obvious card, because the effect in reality did nothing. Although the wording would mean it would fit the prompt.
If you have a reasoning why this case is different, please elaborate.
I'm still puzzled why Tiny Infeastion on page 1 has avoided being disqualified.
The card is builds on the exact same idea as my Minimal Infeastion from week 6.09.
Furthermore, the requirement for the promt hasen't really been met, since the Mana Crystal effect is just about irrelevant. The card could just have costed (0). And yes, people have been disqualified in earlier competitions for this exact reason. (Myself included).
It's a bit of a leap to claim plagiarism here. Making a parody of Ultimate Infestation is hardly original, and it is highly unlikely he copied you. But you have a point with the Mana Crystal thing. If you really think it should be disqualified, you should PM Shadowsofsense.
I think you have seen me ranting well enough that i would not have tried to do anything about it if it exclusively was about the card resembling one of my ideas. I briefly mentioned it last week with my submission and Broeck1's. But the conversation was atleast a friendly one.
I even defended it's legitmacy, as it was not identical, and on a different forum.
But the Mana Crystal thing should disqualify it. The only point where i can see it making a difference would be if you had exactly 9 Mana, and want to play this with Malygos. The idea has clearly been altered to narrowingly seem like it fits the competition.
There's other fringe situations where it would make a difference, like if you used all your mana to play a card that gives a draw, and you draw this. But that hardly matters since these situations would almost never arise, and the card text would be cluttered perpetually. Proper design would be to take out the mana crystal part and have it cost 0. I agree that the effect feels really tacked on.
Also, the mods don't always catch everything before their final sweep right before voting, and they don't always put the under review tag on. People complain about that, but they're only human with limited time. PMing them will be sure to get them to review it if they haven't already.
I pmed Shadows with the issue. I respect the amount of work the mods put into this. This is also why i hate to take action against these things, as i really don't want to give them more things to spend their time on.
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But the Mana Crystal thing should disqualify it. The only point where i can see it making a difference would be if you had exactly 9 Mana, and want to play this with Malygos. The idea has clearly been altered to narrowingly seem like it fits the competition.
I don't agree with that, actually. The competition prompt was just to use the phrase "Mana Crystal" in the text, not that it has to involve a practical involving Mana Crystals. This is exactly the kind of design that I would imagine someone coming up with without realizing the +1 Mana Crystal is superfluous (I didn't even realize that when I first read the card; the Ultimate Infestation parody is distracting and easily could have distracted the creator), and similar if not identical sorts of misunderstandings are all over this discussion thread, particularly with card wording.
Several people in earlier competitions has been disqualified for this exact reason. It would be unfair to them to allow this to advance.
I could probaly find more examples, but the topic was last put up in the 6.09 competition, regarding a Dat_Boi_Eow, who diden't reach the finals, because one of the "1" letters was in the cards name.
Another example would be from my personal experience, where i was disqualified with My Captain Obvious card, because the effect in reality did nothing. Although the wording would mean it would fit the prompt.
If you have a reasoning why this case is different, please elaborate.
I don't have any opinion on whether or not it should be disqualified. My post was objecting to the idea that...
"The idea has clearly been altered to narrowingly seem like it fits the competition."
Hey there guys, I was going to just respond to the PM but I'll respond here instead, in case we have further opinions.
I don't think I can agree with the logic that the card doesn't meet the competition criteria.
Was the Mana Crystal part added only to meet the criteria of the competition? Quite possibly, otherwise for a direct comparison the card would draw 1 card instead. We can't know for sure though, and it would be wrong to assume malice where it is very unlikely any was intended.
Should this effect's potential for rewording be a reason to disqualify it? I don't think so. Gaining a Mana Crystal is still a functional effect, and changing it to a 0 mana card without that effect is not the same thing mechanically. I don't think it's as fringe a situation as you might think that you'd want to play this card last, only to not have the mana. Spell Damage, Card Draw, Spell Cost Increase... and let's not forget Skulking Geist!
In the other cases listed, Captain Obvious subverted the rules by having card text which had no function - ie, the card could just as easily be a Vanilla card and function the same mechanically - in order to meet the competition requirements. In the other case, that was my fault for not specifying that card names wouldn't be counted clearly in the rules, as I should have.
Here, while contrived and not my personal favourite - mostly because I don't want to see Ultimate Infestation become the next Dr. Boom for knock-off cards - the card is still functional and doesn't break any of the rules.
I was shocked when i first saw how many ppl voted for Tiny Infestation, but didnt want to point fingers, but since we r talking about it now i will say my piece. At least Tox's card was funny, this is just a sad attempt to replicate the joke and do it in a bad way, since part of it had to be altered to fit this week's rules. If this crap wins i think im gonna pass on WDC for a while :P (or start to make rly obvious, but bad meme cards and win with em xaxaxa)
PS: im not saying it should be disqualified, since it does technically follow the rules, im just disapointed in ppl, thats all.
I am also rather disappointed that it's doing well; taking an already existing card and tuning its numbers from 5 to 1 is not original or creative. And while sure, "we can't know for sure the 'Mana Crystals' part is tacked on" and we lack proof in the affirmative...come on. We all know it is :/
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
It might sound dumb since my concept has the second most upvotes on page 1, but I actually think that disqualifying Tiny Infestation is a slippery slope. One could also argue that Ragnaros, Lightlord and Hogger, Doom of Elwynn have "tacked on" effects that hardly distinguish them from their inspirations, but the reality is that those cards serve remarkably different roles and are functionally distinct. Sure, maybe this is a Shadow Rager vs. Magma Rager situation, but even then, humor is a part of good design, and it helps sustain interest in Hearthstone. If Blizzard itself isn't bound by a definition of creativity, why should these competitions be?
I'll admit that I'm not thrilled either with a meme card winning the popular vote, mainly because it has a salience-driven value advantage when voters inspect the cards, but banning a card for "being better at catching a person's eye" isn't conducive to the aesthetic of Hearthstone. Plus, being at a disadvantage can serve to drive less "memeful" people to even the playing field by creating even more original cards.
It might sound dumb since my concept has the second most upvotes on page 1, but I actually think that disqualifying Tiny Infestation is a slippery slope. One could also argue that Ragnaros, Lightlord and Hogger, Doom of Elwynn have "tacked on" effects that hardly distinguish them from their inspirations, but the reality is that those cards serve remarkably different roles and are functionally distinct. Sure, maybe this is a Shadow Rager vs. Magma Rager situation, but even then, humor is a part of good design, and it helps sustain interest in Hearthstone. If Blizzard itself isn't bound by a definition of creative design, why should these competitions be?
I'll admit that I'm not thrilled either with a meme card winning the popular vote, mainly because it has a salience-driven value advantage when voters inspect the cards, but banning a card for "being better at catching a person's eye" isn't conducive to the aesthetic of Hearthstone.
This has nothing to do with the situation. Noone here think that it should be disqualified for resembling Ultimate Infeastation.
The major talking points are.
1. The effect that should make it eligible has next to no function. The card could've simply have costed 0 mana, and the card would pretty much be the same. Some cards from earlier competitions has been disqualified for this exact reason.
2. The card goes out for the same fantasy from earlier competitions. Most notably (:P) my Minimal Infeastion from six weeks ago.
@OculusWindow At least your card has actual effort put in, though; Tiny Infestation is basically changing 5s to 1s and then remembering afterward that the contest's requirement needs to be in there somewhere. I'll admit it is probably a slippery slope, as you put it, but there has to be some kind of standard against creative laziness, no? :/
...it's that, or we're all rather bitter that an uncreative idea is beating us.
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
It might sound dumb since my concept has the second most upvotes on page 1, but I actually think that disqualifying Tiny Infestation is a slippery slope. One could also argue that Ragnaros, Lightlord and Hogger, Doom of Elwynn have "tacked on" effects that hardly distinguish them from their inspirations, but the reality is that those cards serve remarkably different roles and are functionally distinct. Sure, maybe this is a Shadow Rager vs. Magma Rager situation, but even then, humor is a part of good design, and it helps sustain interest in Hearthstone. If Blizzard itself isn't bound by a definition of creative design, why should these competitions be?
I'll admit that I'm not thrilled either with a meme card winning the popular vote, mainly because it has a salience-driven value advantage when voters inspect the cards, but banning a card for "being better at catching a person's eye" isn't conducive to the aesthetic of Hearthstone.
This has nothing to do with the situation. Noone here think that it should be disqualified for resembling Ultimate Infeastation.
The major talking points are.
1. The effect that should make it eligible has next to no function. The card could've simply have costed 0 mana, and the card would pretty much be the same. Some cards from earlier competitions has been disqualified for this exact reason.
2. The card goes out for the same fantasy from earlier competitions. Most notably (:P) my Minimal Infeastion from six weeks ago.
1. I think that the effect has plenty of functionality. Instead of simply playing a 2-Drop on turn 2, now Druid can clear their opponent's 1-Health minion and play a 1-Drop. Opening up alternative decisions is functional, IMO. Sure it could be changed to 0 mana, but there's quite a difference between 0 and 1 Mana. I'd argue that the 1-Mana cost is intentional to make the card more than just "power-creep" over Innervate (and of course, to go with the flavor of the card).
2. I'm not familiar with the Minimal Infeastation card, (I'll try and dig it up) but for the Magma Rager vs. Shadow Rager example I gave, I don't think that similarity in fantasy should be grounds for disqualification, so long as the card is distinctive in it's own right.
It's a tough judgment to make, knowing where the line is, so the only solution IMO is to make the rules of originality clearer in future competitions.
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I want a new title, but Flux won't let me have one,
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I should've said it looked like it. My bad.
I want a new title, but Flux won't let me have one,
Hey there guys, I was going to just respond to the PM but I'll respond here instead, in case we have further opinions.
I don't think I can agree with the logic that the card doesn't meet the competition criteria.
Was the Mana Crystal part added only to meet the criteria of the competition? Quite possibly, otherwise for a direct comparison the card would draw 1 card instead. We can't know for sure though, and it would be wrong to assume malice where it is very unlikely any was intended.
Should this effect's potential for rewording be a reason to disqualify it? I don't think so. Gaining a Mana Crystal is still a functional effect, and changing it to a 0 mana card without that effect is not the same thing mechanically. I don't think it's as fringe a situation as you might think that you'd want to play this card last, only to not have the mana. Spell Damage, Card Draw, Spell Cost Increase... and let's not forget Skulking Geist!
In the other cases listed, Captain Obvious subverted the rules by having card text which had no function - ie, the card could just as easily be a Vanilla card and function the same mechanically - in order to meet the competition requirements. In the other case, that was my fault for not specifying that card names wouldn't be counted clearly in the rules, as I should have.
Here, while contrived and not my personal favourite - mostly because I don't want to see Ultimate Infestation become the next Dr. Boom for knock-off cards - the card is still functional and doesn't break any of the rules.
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I'm tired of arguing.
I don't see what the difference is from Captain Obvious, who also had fringes, like adding minions to your hand who have been drawn by Varian Wrynn.
I'm just afraid what this unlocks in terms of what people are allowed to do in the competition.
Do what you think is the right thing, i just stand by what i believe is the most fair.
I want a new title, but Flux won't let me have one,
I was shocked when i first saw how many ppl voted for Tiny Infestation, but didnt want to point fingers, but since we r talking about it now i will say my piece. At least Tox's card was funny, this is just a sad attempt to replicate the joke and do it in a bad way, since part of it had to be altered to fit this week's rules. If this crap wins i think im gonna pass on WDC for a while :P (or start to make rly obvious, but bad meme cards and win with em xaxaxa)
PS: im not saying it should be disqualified, since it does technically follow the rules, im just disapointed in ppl, thats all.
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I am also rather disappointed that it's doing well; taking an already existing card and tuning its numbers from 5 to 1 is not original or creative. And while sure, "we can't know for sure the 'Mana Crystals' part is tacked on" and we lack proof in the affirmative...come on. We all know it is :/
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
It might sound dumb since my concept has the second most upvotes on page 1, but I actually think that disqualifying Tiny Infestation is a slippery slope. One could also argue that Ragnaros, Lightlord and Hogger, Doom of Elwynn have "tacked on" effects that hardly distinguish them from their inspirations, but the reality is that those cards serve remarkably different roles and are functionally distinct. Sure, maybe this is a Shadow Rager vs. Magma Rager situation, but even then, humor is a part of good design, and it helps sustain interest in Hearthstone. If Blizzard itself isn't bound by a definition of creativity, why should these competitions be?
I'll admit that I'm not thrilled either with a meme card winning the popular vote, mainly because it has a salience-driven value advantage when voters inspect the cards, but banning a card for "being better at catching a person's eye" isn't conducive to the aesthetic of Hearthstone. Plus, being at a disadvantage can serve to drive less "memeful" people to even the playing field by creating even more original cards.
I want a new title, but Flux won't let me have one,
@OculusWindow At least your card has actual effort put in, though; Tiny Infestation is basically changing 5s to 1s and then remembering afterward that the contest's requirement needs to be in there somewhere. I'll admit it is probably a slippery slope, as you put it, but there has to be some kind of standard against creative laziness, no? :/
...it's that, or we're all rather bitter that an uncreative idea is beating us.
Behold, foolish interlopers! I am commanding this mortal to spread the will of the Scourge throughout the interwebs, encouraging you to seek out me, Archlich Kel'Thuzad! Now coming to you as the tenth class of Hearthstone!
I am a finalist in this Class Creation Competition, so if you could give it a look I would be greatly appreciative <3
Final Poll is now up!
You can find me here! Good luck everyone!