Leading up to the release of Whispers of the Old Gods, C'Thun and his cult were heralded as bringing about a whole new slew of decks to Hearthstone. However, between the 6 classes that were given C'Thun cards, the only classes with C'Thun decks that were successful during the Old Gods were Druid and Warrior, and not a single C'Thun deck has survived Un'Goro. I'm here to make an in-depth analysis of C'Thun and his mechanics and what I believe could be done to give them viability. This is my first time making a thread in any forum ever, so feel free to roast me for all of my mistakes in presentation and card design.
Fundamental Flaws
In order to understand the problem, the first thing we need to examine is the archetype that each class bearing C'Thun cards was aiming for by the nature of the C'Thun cards it got: Mage - Aggro Warlock - Aggro Druid - Control or Midrange Priest - Control Warrior - Control Rogue - Control (for the most part)
From the above list, it is very obvious why some failed and others existed for a time. The nature of nearly every C'Thun buff minion was a defensive stat-line on top of a buff to C'Thun; majority of the minions were just vanilla bodies on the board that did little to pressure the opponent. This meant that any aggro C'Thun deck failed by the definition of the C'Thun cards, hence why neither Mage or Warlock were successful.
This leaves us with the Midrange and Control C'Thun classes, who should've all synergized with C'Thun by having the tools Blizzard assumed were needed to control the game. While Warrior and Druid had the base class components to make it work, Rogue and Priest were not so fortunate. Why? Rogue - All the single target removal in the world, but no comeback mechanics at all. The only board clear Rogue had was Dark Iron Skulker (now rotting away in Wild), which didn't even work half the time due to its tricky condition. No healing for a class that functions by taking face damage is even worse. Priest - It has some of the control tools required. However, the base class's inconsistency is not solved by C'Thun's control shell. Even more interesting, between the 4 "C'Thun Payoff" cards, the Priest card was the only one that failed to do anything. Whereas classes like Warlock and Rogue would've loved Twilight Darkmender, for the reactive Priest, it only delays the inevitable. To quote Kripparian from his "How Good Is Twilight Darkmender?" video, "...healing is just not good enough".
The only decks that are left after this breakdown are C'Thun Druid and C'Thun Warrior, both now dead due to the meta being hostile towards them and loss of tools to Wild: Jade outmatches C'Thun at all stages of the game, and Taunt Warrior has a better win condition. Brann Bronzebeard leaving standard was probably the largest blow. So what problems have I highlighted? 1) C'Thun decks have weak aggro tools 2) C'Thun cards do very little to solidify a control shell for the classes that need it 3) C'Thun decks are slow by nature of control 4) The rewards for playing a C'Thun deck (i.e. the synergies) are very weak and inconsistent by today's standards (see Murlocs, Pirates, and Jade)
What Do We Do?
C'Thun as a mechanic cannot be changed, and while we could buff up all the neutral C'Thun buff cards, this solution isn't all that viable since a lot of those minions are very good. I believe the only direction we can go in is to add more cards that synergize with C'Thun. While I'm not going to pitch which WOTG cards should be thrown in an incinerator to make room for my own designs (even if everyone wants Power Word: Tentacles to burn), I will present cards that have decent synergy with the classes that had C'Thun cards and a few reworks to the criminally weak C'Thun cards.
Some Technical Notes
1) I am using Elusive to represent "Can't be targeted by spells or Hero Powers". After the KFT reveal showing Lifelink finally becoming a mechanic, I believe it won't be long until the Faerie Dragon effect receives the same treatment. 2) I understand that C'Thun was meant to be a beginner's control deck, so I know that C'Thun was not meant to be top tier by any means, or super fun for everyone (even though I had a blast with C'Thun Paladin through out all of WOG). These card changes were meant to try and give the decks some more focus, considering how lacklustre most were with their execution.
The Cards
Neutral
Before release, the original was speculated to be fairly weak with a poor stat line. In practice, people were forced to run this card in nearly all C'Thun decks because it was one of the few defensive tools C'Thun decks had. This new version will most likely will get +2/+2 in and kill a minion. Power creep on Fen Creeper perhaps, but Fen Creeper is not seeing play.
All it needed was 2 points of Health. Now with improved survivability, it will have a much better chance of drawing your your desired 10 drop. Still on the optional side of C'Thun minions, but the card is at least playable now.
This idea has been done many times, but if I'm not the first person to think of it, it probably means a lot of people wanted it to exist. Gives C'Thun decks an additional game ending condition should they need it. Tainted Giant really shapes C'Thun decks to be less "Well they're hitting 10 attack anyways" to more "I need to end the game before they hit 20 attack". As you'll see from many of the cards below, a lot of them can have their C'Thun buffing traits played around to minimize the C'Thun player's buffs, allowing for a good bit of counter play to these 0 mana behemoths.
Archmage of C'Thun is a very aggressive minion that provides a variety of payoff effects. This card aims to invoke the feeling of calling upon one of the cult's elites, which in this case is a powerful spell caster capable of all kinds of curses and rituals. There is a total of 3 Evil Arts, each of which unintentionally have a rarity symbol despite being a token. Take a look! Tokens:
Provides C'Thun decks with their very own Goblin Blastmage. Hurts the opponent's board and mind with the reminder that C'Thun is coming, and he will do something far worse than the Archmage. Important to note that since this is a spell being cast, Spell Damage affects it, much like Yogg-Saron, Hope's End.
Have a valueless minion on the board? Need to kill an egg and summon a Devilsaur? You're a sadistic bastard? Say no more. Genesis of the Evil forces you to destroy a friendly minion and rewards you with a powerful 6/6 with Charge. But of course, with all things broken, there's a catch: you get the 6/6 on the following turn. Note that if Archmage of C'Thun is your only minion on the board, the spell will force you to kill it.
Its adorable! One cool way to use this spell is to play around board clears. If you have a menacing board, it doesn't hurt to sacrifice a weakened minion to guarantee a 6/6 Charge the following turn in the event you feel a Twisting Nether coming. Its just a shame there are so few C'Thun related Deathrattle minions...
Not afraid of getting your board cleared? Make your opponent afraid instead! Against mid-sized boards, you can now trade your minions and still deal damage to the opponent. In the high rolling scenario of somehow clearing a board of 7 minions, thats 14 damage your opponent will take while losing their board. Watch for this when your opponent has a lot of taunts or low health guys.
Of course, if a strong aggro card is going to exist for C'Thun decks, a strong control option should exist likewise. Beguiler of C'Thun provides access to many useful control abilities, allowing for all kinds of disruption. Tokens:
A new type of mind control effect. The range is not as flexible when compared to cards like Cabal Shadow Priest and Book Wyrm, who get important interactions with cards like Finja, the Flying Star and Alley Armorsmith. Book Wyrm is able to hit even higher priority targets such as Lyra the Sunshard and Sunkeeper Tarim. Of course, it does get some huge value steals on all competitively viable Murlocs, and most aggro minions for that matter. Most tokens fall prey as well.
Did the opponent flood the board with a bunch of small tokens? Will Breakprovides an un-healable 1 damage AoE, and if that doesn't kill them, they are forever weakened. Demoralizes the opponent even further with the +3/+3 buff to C'Thun.
Very similar to one of Archmage of C'Thun's spells, except it hits spells instead of minions. If your opponent is close to death, you might have just locked them out of a game winning combo due to the life loss they'll take from casting two Frostbolts and a Fireball. One unwritten rule about this card is that it works similarly to the hand buff effects; your opponent's spells will light up with an ominous purple glow to remind both players about the cursed spells. In other words, this card provides information AND combo disruption.
Beguiler of C'Thun and Archmage of C'Thun are a two card cycle that I wanted to exist so that the 10 Attack payoff cards had some more worrisome turns; as it stood, only Twin Emperor Vek'lor was THE big threat. Now turn 5 is huge for C'Thun decks if they can hit enough C'Thun buffs turns 1 through 4, which with the addition of some later cards, should be fairly easy.
Upping the anti on this card by just a bit. Doomcaller's effect was already decent, but with no immediate effect on the board and costing 8 mana, it could use a little bit more oomph. A +3/+3 buff to C'Thun should make it more significant. I would make it +4/+4, but then Brann Bronzebeard could get ridiculous.
The original Skeram Cultist paled in comparison to the other C'Thun minions, who came out earlier and had better stat lines. While it is still an optional C'Thun minion, the midrange or control C'Thun decks who want a hard to remove mid-game threat can take one now.
A lot of C'Thun decks such as Priest and Druid, have a difficult time slotting in effective minions to contest the board as well as card draw. Nightmare Dealer aims to solve everything by giving C'Thun decks access to one of the strongest neutral card draw options in the game. I don't believe this is broken, as most C'Thun decks sacrifice minions with useful keywords in favour of buffing C'Thun. Feels like the glue card for the more inconsistent C'Thun decks, but its definitely no Disciple of C'Thun.
A utility option that provides early game board. One of those informal sounding card generation cards, like Kabal Chemist. It will generate any card that interacts with C'Thun, including the payoff cards, but not including more general synergy cards like Ancient Harbinger.The C'Thun minions aren't all that impressive, so an above average stat line for this kind of card should keep things fair. Restricted to the neutral and the current class's C'Thun cards, with class C'Thun cards receiving an offering bonus.
An early game defensive tool who turns your C'Thun into the ultimate comeback tool. In addition to the card below, it will provide C'Thun control decks with sustainability should they need it.
Easily the most important change out of all these redesigns and additions. This will give all C'Thun decks access to the survivability they need. Rogue and Warlock can try control C'Thun builds and the other C'Thun decks have more options. Sure, Blizzard might be in a disagreement over making strong neutral healing cards, but seeing how it only works for a niche pool of decks that have all flopped, I don't think its too bad. Now, you might say "That was the text from the old Twilight Darkmender! What happened to that card?". Good question. You'll find out soon.
Druid
Druid can't get very good removal, but it can get very high quality minions. Worst case scenario its a 3 mana 3/3 Taunt. Considering how large C'Thun generally gets, this minion can easily become a 7/7 or an 8/8 taunt for cheap. This effect could've been a battlecry, but I'm trying to introduce minions that act as Dirty Rat protection for C'Thun; Cursed Ancient is one of them, and there are many more down the line.
A minion that allows you to prevent the opponent's dastardly combos or continue to buff up your C'Thun. With extreme versatility, skill is demanded for proper usage. You must be able to estimate when your opponent is going to combo off or risk losing a buff for C'Thun. The card does use older wording, however seeing as how neither Millhouse Manastorm or Loatheb have been updated to read like Doomed Apprentice, I think its fine for readability.
Mage
Keep the aggressiveness of the card, but now with less of a gimmick. Instead of praying for it to survive the early game long enough to combo, it is now much more reliable thanks to Wicked Scripture. What's a Wicked Scripture you ask? Tokens:
A reliable combo card. Now you get to the choose when to give your C'Thun a huge buff from casting a lot of spells in one turn, instead of praying for your Cult Sorcerer to live long enough to combo. Wicked Scripture will give your C'Thun +1/+1 at minimum due to the card counting itself (does not specify "other" like Biteweed or Edwin VanCleef). Note that it can only be generated by Cult Sorcerer (I couldn't get rid of the rarity without getting rid of the set symbol).
This is a prime example of a card that just went from being a joke to an archetype's flagship through a few small tweaks. With a powerful stat line and a way to prevent your opponent from interfering with your board, Demented Frostcaller will prove to be one of C'Thun's most noteworthy cultists. Might push for a Midrange C'Thun Mage but aggro will definitely take this card. I know it wasn't a C'Thun card originally, but its better off being drafted by the Lovecraftian horror than collecting dust.
Compared to Warlock, Mage has more difficulty surviving the late game if their aggression fails. C'Thun in such a deck is meant to close out the game, but it can be too slow or clunky sitting in the mage's hand. Essence Reaper gives the Mage some leverage against drawing C'Thun a bit early through its Deathrattle and aggressive body. Tokens:
Harvested Essence not only speeds up the Mage's C'Thun, it also provides a small buff and spell synergy with Cult Sorcerer. By costing 0, it allows for a lot of spell synergy. A bit scary with Flamewaker in wild, but unfair combos will always exist. Note that it can only be generated by Essence Reaper (I couldn't get rid of the rarity without getting rid of the set symbol).
Blizzard always introduces that one card which appears completely out of place for the set it is in (Celestial Dreamer, Luckydo Buccaneer, etc.). Lord of the Abyss, contradictory to the other C'Thun Mage cards, allows for an attempt at a control build. Since C'Thun is your win condition, stalling for a turn, playing a 6/8, and buffing your C'Thun all at once is huge value. Can also combo with Doomsayer if you think a 6/8 body is not enough to hold off the opponent. Visually, I'd expect a bunch of icy tentacles to drown each enemy minion, only to have them resurface frozen a second later.
Priest
One of big issue with C'Thun decks (and most control decks in Hearthstone in general) is finding ways to slow down your opponent. Priest in particular suffers from this, as they have few proactive cards. Twilight Corruptor helps to solve such a problem by being one of the few cards in Hearthstone that let you interfere with your opponent's plan early in the game.
Twilight Corruptor's effect allows you to do two things important to control in a card game: obtain information and trip up your opponent. By making a card cost 2 more, you can slow down or prevent annoying plays later in the game. For example, making your opponent's Frothing Berserker a 5 drop instead of a 3 drop means you can anticipate the aggressive Warrior to not play one unless he's desperate. Gadgetzan Auctioneer's combo potential with Druid or Rogue is severely weakened by costing 8 mana. In wild, you can completely lock combos out of the game by turning Brann Bronzebeard into a 5 drop. A lot of thinking for both players, as the opponent will eventually find out what card you saw was in their deck, and can therefore anticipate what you're playing around.
I know its a different style of C'Thun card, forgoing the 10 Attack requirement, however I believe that running the risk of having a dead card until turn 10 deserves some reward. I'm also introducing the word "make" here, but I believe it is intuitive enough. Note that it will not reveal cards that cost more than 8 mana, as it would be broken if it made your opponent's N'Zoth, the Corruptor unplayable. Only affects the single copy of the card revealed, so your opponent only has 1 card in their deck made horribly inefficient.
Now this is what Priest should've gotten. Worst case scenario, you play this in a desperate attempt to stabilize, raising your Hero's max health by 2 and providing an aggressive minion. Best case? A 5 mana 6/5 that brings a total of +14 health to your side of the game, crushing your opponent's hopes of clearing your board. Realistically this will probably only hit 2 or 3 minions, but such a stat boost is fairly relevant for stabilizing, which is exactly what C'Thun Control Priest needed. Might also push for a Midrange build.
Hooded Acolyte had an amazing stat line, but the effect was not worth wasting a card slot for Circle of Healing or incentivizing the hero power. Now its actually a decent option to play a three drop/spell on turn 5 and heal when Hooded Acolyte is present. It will also make your opponent think twice about healing in any way, making it an effective heal blocker.
An extremely weak board clear on its own. However, with just +6/+6 worth of C'Thun buffs, it quickly becomes formidable. Late game this will only be second to Twisting Nether. Still not sure if it is fast enough, but combined with some of the minion rebalancing on the other C'Thun cards, it might just work. Deals no damage if you have no C'Thun.
Rogue
The shenanigans card that C'Thun Rogue dreamed of. Allows you to duplicate your C'Thun effects, buff up C'Thun, and/or have something on board. Might be playable outside of C'Thun decks, although I don't think the effect is broken enough to do so (for reference, Shadowcaster is not seeing play, and I still think that card is insane).
Lets give Rogue a good weapon and some C'Thun synergy. This will ensure a good amount of tempo is kept to help mitigate the problem of Rogue lacking a strong board clear (can't ignore Blizzard's design philosophy entirely). Most weapons are usually used to deal the killing blow anyways, hence this weapon guarantees +4/+4 to C'Thun. Heavily inspired by a card I saw browsing random fan creations.
Speeds up the C'Thun Rogue significantly. With all minions becoming cheaper (including your C'Thun), the Rogue has a chance to close out the game before the opponent produces an insurmountable board. Expect his entering the battle sound effect to be "I'll put on a show!" implying you're about to do something elaborate with the cost reductions.
Warlock
C'Thun zoo desperately needed an early game minion who could leverage the risk of the deck having its hand clogged up with high costing minions such as Twin Emperor Vek'lor or C'Thun himself. Tentaclemancer is a solution to that problem, providing the player with a turn 1 play and allowing you to plan out a near future turn. So what kinds of options does it provide you with? Tokens:
A really annoying early game pest, perfect for securing resilient boards. Flavour-wise, upon dying the wings on its back attach themselves to nearby creatures, letting them fly and avoid spells. I hope there isn't a broken combo that takes advantage of the ability to give an adjacent minion permanent Elusive.
A midgame defence that buffs C'Thun while trading into almost all 4 drops. Designed to to keep you alive in hopes of winning the late game. I really like the story the card tells; a friendly demon who the Tentaclemancer captured and experimented on, forcing it to collect blood for C'Thun. Sad how he dies as a sacrifice to the old god he never wanted to serve.
C'Thun decks hate running Doomguard, as the risk of discarding C'Thun is game-ending. So instead of using your hand as a resource, why not provide them with their own version of a Doomguard that uses C'Thun as a resource? Intended for players who believe they need to end the game fast or deal with a threat that they can't ignore. Note that you cannot drop C'Thun below 0/0, although attempting to play him as a 0/0 will instantly kill him.
The three options Tentaclemancer provides are fairly powerful, allowing you to secure the board, plan for the late game, or plan for the short game. This should ensure the decision made has a lot of skill involved, as you'll have to be able to predict what you'll need in the future based on the board and your opponent's deck.
Tentaclemancer is also me taking a shot at wide-RNG card discover effects (cough, Primordial Glyph, cough), showing how much more skillful it is to have a small pool of cards to choose from; the opponent actually knows what they have to play around with a 5/5 charge being the lynchpin of their fears. For anyone wondering why Tentaclemancer does not provide a 2 drop, it would be a completely braindead option, probably being picked almost every time in the early game. Note that all of the Tentacle Monsters can only be generated by Tentaclemancer (I couldn't get rid of the rarity without losing the set symbol).
The ideal zoo minion that the aggressive C'Thun Warlocks were lacking. Will compete with Defender of Argus and Ravenous Pterrordax but I think it is a very attractive card for the C'Thun zoo builds. Also curves beautifully with Darkshire Councilman, but expect that to be a rare occurrence, since keeping this card in your opening hand is risky. Tokens:
Its just waiting to be sacrificed in some horrible fashion. Power Overwhelming in wild is a great option, and it rewards double C'Thun points with Usher of Souls. The card below is another option. Note that it can only be generated by Cult Beckoner (I couldn't get rid of the rarity without getting rid of the set symbol).
Warlock had a sacrificial aggro theme pushed with Usher of Souls. However the deck never took off because timing the sacrifices was difficult and Zoo did not like losing its board. Nether Crawler is an attempt to offer an incentive to want to kill off your guys, or make unfavourable trades to set your opponent's minions up as centipede food.
Nether Crawler has the potential to be played in Aggro, Midrange, and Control Warlock decks as it can be used as a board clear, high end finisher, or opportunistically in the event you believe C'Thun is your primary out in the game. Also thematically just sacrificing everything on the board to C'Thun is kind of eye pleasing. I'd expect a bunch of hellish centipede legs spiking up from beneath the ground and ravaging the board. Inspired by Magic's Massacre Wurm.
Warrior
A C'Thun based weapon. Its over-costed on its own and with a single C'Thun buff its still lacklustre. 2 C'Thun buffs and it becomes a very strong anti-aggro tool, mirroring the "...has at least 10 attack" conditions on some of the C'Thun cards. Not my original design (would post source if I remembered where I saw it), but it just seemed to fit perfectly into this batch of C'Thun revival cards.
For the threats that you don't want to waste premium removal on but also can't let go. Essentially threatens the opponent with setting up your C'Thun synergy cards or making your C'Thun a game ending monstrosity much quicker. In the event you happen to have a minion your opponent finds insignificant, you can have the messenger tell that minion about the glorious cult of C'Thun, creating a threat out of nowhere. Could lead to a midrange C'Thun Warrior. Also the flavour is on point.
Not only does it draw you a useful anti-aggro card, but a buff to C'Thun is provided by its dying breath. Ideally, it should provide C'Thun Warrior with a bit more early game, giving some more reliability to the Warrior's 3 mana slot, that previously was solely reactive. You can build your deck to guarantee Tentacles for Arms is an option on turn 4.
Stats
Cards Redesigned - 8 (2 Epics, 5 Rares, 2 Commons) Cards Added - 21 (7 Epics, 9 Rares, 5 Commons) Tokens Added - 12 (14 including Choose One effects) Previous C'Thun Card Total - 19 (20 including Ancient Harbinger) New C'Thun Card Total - 40 (41 including Ancient Harbinger)
Design Philosophies Questioned
Wild Sets - One way Blizzard could realistically buff C'Thun to make him more interesting and powerful would be to introduce a wild expansion set once Old Gods rotates out. This would mean they could provide more skillful or complicated cards (and by that I mean the level of complicatedness my cards provide, which is very little) without hurting the new player base, who could feel overwhelmed.
0 Cost Tokens - The design of the mage token spells that are generated might seem strange. One might argue a card is unintuitive by costing 0 mana, but if a card has a related combo or combo potential, I don't think its wrong as combos are intended for the player to figure out given enough games. I'd rather have a card have a slight learning curve to understand rather than it seeing no play, a story currently being shared by almost all of the Quest cards. The Quests were all costed at 0 mana initially, but were changed to 1 mana in testing because players would "...forget to play it..." . Almost all of them are too slow for a game where the first turn decides everything.
Token Information - One nice change that Hearthstone could do to make card generation by other cards more understandable for users is to show in the collection manager what cards are generated. That way, cards like Ysera and Xaril, Poisoned Mind can show users what they do without requiring google to know if their effects are worthwhile. Some kind of mini card bundle held together by a bow that the user could unravel to see what the card comes with would be aesthetically pleasing. This would allow for my C'Thun cards to exist, as the current state of Hearthstone would have Tentaclemancer as an Epic for his effect, when in truth he's simpler than Hydrologist.
Concluding Remarks
Well I did my best. All of the C'Thun classes now have 4 class cards in their packages and plenty of other cards to allow for different play-styles. I know some of the existing C'Thun cards are still a little mindless to play, and hence I can understand why people might find C'Thun boring. As a result, I did up the complexity on some of these cards to ensure that there's more thinking involved. At the very least these cards should give all of the C'Thun decks their own distinct feel and the proper foundation they need in order for anyone to have fun with them. Once again, if you have any criticisms feel free to let me know. Thank you for reading!
EDIT 1: Added in Evil Eye (had the card in my head but was overly hesitant). Also buffed Ancient Harbingerafter reading through an article on how the card only had a 45% chance of success if played on curve assuming it survived. Thank you all for your feedback! EDIT 2: Big update based on feedback. Every class now has a grand total of 4 class C'Thun cards, enough for customizability of C'Thun decks, even within the same class! Special thanks to AlchemistApprentice for their very constructive feedback on Mage. EDIT 3: Final update. The Sisters of C'Thun were made much more interesting. A lot of poorly formatted cards were updated to look simpler and more in line with Hearthstone's formatting. Wretched Honor Guard was made less clunky. Also shout out to the Weekly Card Design Competition 6.07! Loved seeing all of the C'Thun cards.
Cult Jester seems just a little too strong. It should probably just reduce the cost of cards in your hand. I think that it would still need more cards and power but C'thun decks would definitely be stronger with these cards. An idea I had was a changed Twilight Elder.It will now be a 3 2/5 (has more survivability) If your C'thun has 10 or less attack, double it's attack and health.
Solid post. Nice review of what happened and how it could have been done differently.
I disagree on your assessment of how the classes were structured for C'thun classes but I understand what you're getting at.
What I would say that you didn't address is, what do you think Blizzard's purpose for C'thun decks was? Just because some of them rose to the top doesn't mean that blizz wanted there to be top tier deck out of C'thun.
If they meant for a lasting deck that could challenge for top 1-2 tier, then they failed but I really don't think that was the target.
While C'thun decks didn't top the meta, I wonder if that was even the intention. I joined HS durring Whispers, and building a budget C'thun Mage, kind of a hybrid freeze/tempo deck, was exceptionally cheap and good enough to get me to rank 15 my first month of play and rank 10 the second month. Later I transitioned into a legitimate freeze mage deck.
Also, the only reason why C'Thun decks aren't played anymore is because Brann is no longer in standart, and so aren't many heal cards like Refreshment Vendor.
I think the only problem with C'thun is the lack of new C'thun cards. N'zoth gets new deathrattles, Yogg is based on the number of spells in your deck. C'thun is limited to the basic support he got during Wotog and that is it. That said. It is still fun to play with.
Thank you all for your feedback! Some ideas I'd like to reply to:
1) I completely overlooked Brann Bronzebeard leaving standard as a factor for why C'Thun fell out of popularity. He significantly sped up the deck to a speed that had a chance against a lot of aggro. I somewhat disagree with the idea of Dirty Rat entering standard being a defining issue, as any "discard" effect against the opponent will always be harmful against control, and yet we still had control decks existing in various stages of the MSoG meta.
2) Whether or not every C'Thun deck was meant to be competitive is a completely valid point. As someone like Caganius probably put best, they were just more solid options for new players to transition into. Of course while some still surged to the top, I guess this analysis is just me venting my frustration at how the "fun" synergies in some of the classes just felt weak (Warlock, Mage, Priest). I tried for so long to get C'Thun Warlock to work, but I could never make it past rank 10 (possibly my skill level but it just felt outclassed by zoo on all fronts).
3) @AlchemistApprentice I messed up. In hindsight, I power-creeped Kobold Geomancer even harder than the original Cult Sorcerer. Not entirely sure if my Demented Frostcaller is strictly better than Water Elemental since killing off a Murloc Warleader instead of just freezing it tends to be better (weak example) but I think you are correct. Any ideas for how C'Thun aggro/midrange Mage could be a thing? I'd prefer finding a way to make Cult Sorcerer and Demented Frostcaller good C'Thun cards.
i think the intention of c'thun decks were to give newer players a breathing budget, you know something they could play and win some games with to grow their collections, without making it overly competitive, for that alone, it was great, ic an still recommend c'thund ecks to people i introduce to the game and they'll be able to grow their collections from there, it also introduced a cheapish controlish/midrangish decks for those new players that up to that point were getting pidgeonholed into aggro..
1) I completely overlooked Brann Bronzebeard leaving standard as a factor for why C'Thun fell out of popularity. He significantly sped up the deck to a speed that had a chance against a lot of aggro. I somewhat disagree with the idea of Dirty Rat entering standard being a defining issue, as any "discard" effect against the opponent will always be harmful against control, and yet we still had control decks existing in various stages of the MSoG meta.
Alright, it makes sense that losing Brann is a negative for C'Thun decks but you can't dismiss the effect of Dirty Rat, why doesn't C'Thun decks work in wild then? Brann still works in that format, right? Bad aggro matchups(pirate warrior) are a possibility for the decline of C'Thun decks even in wild but Dirty Rat destroys your win-condition against control decks, too. Which matchup are you supposed to win when you are unfavored against aggro and control both?
I don't play enough wild to say I know exactly why C'Thun decks fail there, however if I were to use a reputable source for wild deck information such as the wild-vs-data-reaper-report-2, I think it is safe to say Dirty Rat is not the problem. Just looking at all of the tier 1 and tier 2 decks, not a single one of their sample decklists run Dirty Rat, most likely in favour of a more synergistic game plan.
Even if we were to include all decks across the meta, we can only see Taunt Warrior, Control Warrior, and Renolock running Dirty Rat. According to their statistics at all ranks, only 9.77% of the meta is one of those three decks. Sure, that roughly translates to you having a chance of losing your win condition every 1 in 10 games, but if you're losing the other 9 games as well, I think its more of an issue with the design of C'Thun decks as a whole. I like to think card designs like Tainted Giant help to alleviate the fear of C'Thun being the only way for the deck to win the game, but you're free to disagree.
Again, I still think Dirty Rat is somewhat of a problem, but I'm willing to accept discard effects in card games. They allow for the disruption of combo and greedy control decks, and while I wish it was less RNG based, this is the best we'll probably ever get in Hearthstone.
Such a pitty Paladin C'thun wasn't a thing, the lack of its own class C'thun cards was a surprise for me. But as you say and as a main Pala I tried my own C'thun version with Secrets with awesome results. My best win % ever!
They cannot print new cards for C'Thun that is what went wrong because if they do game will be boring and after rotation people will have cards with meaningless C'Thun synergy
BTW Has anybody tried C'Thun Taunt Handbuff warrior ? 1/ There's lots of taunt in it (Twilight Geomancer, Vel'kor, etc.) 2/ C'Thun also synergises with the handbuff mechanic!
I wanted to do it myself but I don't have the dust for it.
C'Thun: What Went Wrong?
Leading up to the release of Whispers of the Old Gods, C'Thun and his cult were heralded as bringing about a whole new slew of decks to Hearthstone. However, between the 6 classes that were given C'Thun cards, the only classes with C'Thun decks that were successful during the Old Gods were Druid and Warrior, and not a single C'Thun deck has survived Un'Goro. I'm here to make an in-depth analysis of C'Thun and his mechanics and what I believe could be done to give them viability. This is my first time making a thread in any forum ever, so feel free to roast me for all of my mistakes in presentation and card design.
Fundamental Flaws
In order to understand the problem, the first thing we need to examine is the archetype that each class bearing C'Thun cards was aiming for by the nature of the C'Thun cards it got:
Mage - Aggro
Warlock - Aggro
Druid - Control or Midrange
Priest - Control
Warrior - Control
Rogue - Control (for the most part)
From the above list, it is very obvious why some failed and others existed for a time. The nature of nearly every C'Thun buff minion was a defensive stat-line on top of a buff to C'Thun; majority of the minions were just vanilla bodies on the board that did little to pressure the opponent. This meant that any aggro C'Thun deck failed by the definition of the C'Thun cards, hence why neither Mage or Warlock were successful.
This leaves us with the Midrange and Control C'Thun classes, who should've all synergized with C'Thun by having the tools Blizzard assumed were needed to control the game. While Warrior and Druid had the base class components to make it work, Rogue and Priest were not so fortunate. Why?
Rogue - All the single target removal in the world, but no comeback mechanics at all. The only board clear Rogue had was Dark Iron Skulker (now rotting away in Wild), which didn't even work half the time due to its tricky condition. No healing for a class that functions by taking face damage is even worse.
Priest - It has some of the control tools required. However, the base class's inconsistency is not solved by C'Thun's control shell. Even more interesting, between the 4 "C'Thun Payoff" cards, the Priest card was the only one that failed to do anything. Whereas classes like Warlock and Rogue would've loved Twilight Darkmender, for the reactive Priest, it only delays the inevitable. To quote Kripparian from his "How Good Is Twilight Darkmender?" video, "...healing is just not good enough".
The only decks that are left after this breakdown are C'Thun Druid and C'Thun Warrior, both now dead due to the meta being hostile towards them and loss of tools to Wild: Jade outmatches C'Thun at all stages of the game, and Taunt Warrior has a better win condition. Brann Bronzebeard leaving standard was probably the largest blow. So what problems have I highlighted?
1) C'Thun decks have weak aggro tools
2) C'Thun cards do very little to solidify a control shell for the classes that need it
3) C'Thun decks are slow by nature of control
4) The rewards for playing a C'Thun deck (i.e. the synergies) are very weak and inconsistent by today's standards (see Murlocs, Pirates, and Jade)
What Do We Do?
C'Thun as a mechanic cannot be changed, and while we could buff up all the neutral C'Thun buff cards, this solution isn't all that viable since a lot of those minions are very good. I believe the only direction we can go in is to add more cards that synergize with C'Thun. While I'm not going to pitch which WOTG cards should be thrown in an incinerator to make room for my own designs (even if everyone wants Power Word: Tentacles to burn), I will present cards that have decent synergy with the classes that had C'Thun cards and a few reworks to the criminally weak C'Thun cards.
Some Technical Notes
1) I am using Elusive to represent "Can't be targeted by spells or Hero Powers". After the KFT reveal showing Lifelink finally becoming a mechanic, I believe it won't be long until the Faerie Dragon effect receives the same treatment.
2) I understand that C'Thun was meant to be a beginner's control deck, so I know that C'Thun was not meant to be top tier by any means, or super fun for everyone (even though I had a blast with C'Thun Paladin through out all of WOG). These card changes were meant to try and give the decks some more focus, considering how lacklustre most were with their execution.
The Cards
Neutral
Before release, the original was speculated to be fairly weak with a poor stat line. In practice, people were forced to run this card in nearly all C'Thun decks because it was one of the few defensive tools C'Thun decks had. This new version will most likely will get +2/+2 in and kill a minion. Power creep on Fen Creeper perhaps, but Fen Creeper is not seeing play.
All it needed was 2 points of Health. Now with improved survivability, it will have a much better chance of drawing your your desired 10 drop. Still on the optional side of C'Thun minions, but the card is at least playable now.
This idea has been done many times, but if I'm not the first person to think of it, it probably means a lot of people wanted it to exist. Gives C'Thun decks an additional game ending condition should they need it. Tainted Giant really shapes C'Thun decks to be less "Well they're hitting 10 attack anyways" to more "I need to end the game before they hit 20 attack". As you'll see from many of the cards below, a lot of them can have their C'Thun buffing traits played around to minimize the C'Thun player's buffs, allowing for a good bit of counter play to these 0 mana behemoths.
Archmage of C'Thun is a very aggressive minion that provides a variety of payoff effects. This card aims to invoke the feeling of calling upon one of the cult's elites, which in this case is a powerful spell caster capable of all kinds of curses and rituals. There is a total of 3 Evil Arts, each of which unintentionally have a rarity symbol despite being a token. Take a look!
Tokens:
Provides C'Thun decks with their very own Goblin Blastmage. Hurts the opponent's board and mind with the reminder that C'Thun is coming, and he will do something far worse than the Archmage. Important to note that since this is a spell being cast, Spell Damage affects it, much like Yogg-Saron, Hope's End.
Have a valueless minion on the board? Need to kill an egg and summon a Devilsaur? You're a sadistic bastard? Say no more. Genesis of the Evil forces you to destroy a friendly minion and rewards you with a powerful 6/6 with Charge. But of course, with all things broken, there's a catch: you get the 6/6 on the following turn. Note that if Archmage of C'Thun is your only minion on the board, the spell will force you to kill it.
Its adorable! One cool way to use this spell is to play around board clears. If you have a menacing board, it doesn't hurt to sacrifice a weakened minion to guarantee a 6/6 Charge the following turn in the event you feel a Twisting Nether coming. Its just a shame there are so few C'Thun related Deathrattle minions...
Not afraid of getting your board cleared? Make your opponent afraid instead! Against mid-sized boards, you can now trade your minions and still deal damage to the opponent. In the high rolling scenario of somehow clearing a board of 7 minions, thats 14 damage your opponent will take while losing their board. Watch for this when your opponent has a lot of taunts or low health guys.
Of course, if a strong aggro card is going to exist for C'Thun decks, a strong control option should exist likewise. Beguiler of C'Thun provides access to many useful control abilities, allowing for all kinds of disruption.
Tokens:
A new type of mind control effect. The range is not as flexible when compared to cards like Cabal Shadow Priest and Book Wyrm, who get important interactions with cards like Finja, the Flying Star and Alley Armorsmith. Book Wyrm is able to hit even higher priority targets such as Lyra the Sunshard and Sunkeeper Tarim. Of course, it does get some huge value steals on all competitively viable Murlocs, and most aggro minions for that matter. Most tokens fall prey as well.
Did the opponent flood the board with a bunch of small tokens? Will Break provides an un-healable 1 damage AoE, and if that doesn't kill them, they are forever weakened. Demoralizes the opponent even further with the +3/+3 buff to C'Thun.
Very similar to one of Archmage of C'Thun's spells, except it hits spells instead of minions. If your opponent is close to death, you might have just locked them out of a game winning combo due to the life loss they'll take from casting two Frostbolts and a Fireball. One unwritten rule about this card is that it works similarly to the hand buff effects; your opponent's spells will light up with an ominous purple glow to remind both players about the cursed spells. In other words, this card provides information AND combo disruption.
Beguiler of C'Thun and Archmage of C'Thun are a two card cycle that I wanted to exist so that the 10 Attack payoff cards had some more worrisome turns; as it stood, only Twin Emperor Vek'lor was THE big threat. Now turn 5 is huge for C'Thun decks if they can hit enough C'Thun buffs turns 1 through 4, which with the addition of some later cards, should be fairly easy.
Upping the anti on this card by just a bit. Doomcaller's effect was already decent, but with no immediate effect on the board and costing 8 mana, it could use a little bit more oomph. A +3/+3 buff to C'Thun should make it more significant. I would make it +4/+4, but then Brann Bronzebeard could get ridiculous.
The original Skeram Cultist paled in comparison to the other C'Thun minions, who came out earlier and had better stat lines. While it is still an optional C'Thun minion, the midrange or control C'Thun decks who want a hard to remove mid-game threat can take one now.
A lot of C'Thun decks such as Priest and Druid, have a difficult time slotting in effective minions to contest the board as well as card draw. Nightmare Dealer aims to solve everything by giving C'Thun decks access to one of the strongest neutral card draw options in the game. I don't believe this is broken, as most C'Thun decks sacrifice minions with useful keywords in favour of buffing C'Thun. Feels like the glue card for the more inconsistent C'Thun decks, but its definitely no Disciple of C'Thun.
A utility option that provides early game board. One of those informal sounding card generation cards, like Kabal Chemist. It will generate any card that interacts with C'Thun, including the payoff cards, but not including more general synergy cards like Ancient Harbinger.The C'Thun minions aren't all that impressive, so an above average stat line for this kind of card should keep things fair. Restricted to the neutral and the current class's C'Thun cards, with class C'Thun cards receiving an offering bonus.
An early game defensive tool who turns your C'Thun into the ultimate comeback tool. In addition to the card below, it will provide C'Thun control decks with sustainability should they need it.
Easily the most important change out of all these redesigns and additions. This will give all C'Thun decks access to the survivability they need. Rogue and Warlock can try control C'Thun builds and the other C'Thun decks have more options. Sure, Blizzard might be in a disagreement over making strong neutral healing cards, but seeing how it only works for a niche pool of decks that have all flopped, I don't think its too bad. Now, you might say "That was the text from the old Twilight Darkmender! What happened to that card?". Good question. You'll find out soon.
Druid
Druid can't get very good removal, but it can get very high quality minions. Worst case scenario its a 3 mana 3/3 Taunt. Considering how large C'Thun generally gets, this minion can easily become a 7/7 or an 8/8 taunt for cheap. This effect could've been a battlecry, but I'm trying to introduce minions that act as Dirty Rat protection for C'Thun; Cursed Ancient is one of them, and there are many more down the line.
A minion that allows you to prevent the opponent's dastardly combos or continue to buff up your C'Thun. With extreme versatility, skill is demanded for proper usage. You must be able to estimate when your opponent is going to combo off or risk losing a buff for C'Thun. The card does use older wording, however seeing as how neither Millhouse Manastorm or Loatheb have been updated to read like Doomed Apprentice, I think its fine for readability.
Mage
Keep the aggressiveness of the card, but now with less of a gimmick. Instead of praying for it to survive the early game long enough to combo, it is now much more reliable thanks to Wicked Scripture. What's a Wicked Scripture you ask?
Tokens:
A reliable combo card. Now you get to the choose when to give your C'Thun a huge buff from casting a lot of spells in one turn, instead of praying for your Cult Sorcerer to live long enough to combo. Wicked Scripture will give your C'Thun +1/+1 at minimum due to the card counting itself (does not specify "other" like Biteweed or Edwin VanCleef). Note that it can only be generated by Cult Sorcerer (I couldn't get rid of the rarity without getting rid of the set symbol).
This is a prime example of a card that just went from being a joke to an archetype's flagship through a few small tweaks. With a powerful stat line and a way to prevent your opponent from interfering with your board, Demented Frostcaller will prove to be one of C'Thun's most noteworthy cultists. Might push for a Midrange C'Thun Mage but aggro will definitely take this card. I know it wasn't a C'Thun card originally, but its better off being drafted by the Lovecraftian horror than collecting dust.
Compared to Warlock, Mage has more difficulty surviving the late game if their aggression fails. C'Thun in such a deck is meant to close out the game, but it can be too slow or clunky sitting in the mage's hand. Essence Reaper gives the Mage some leverage against drawing C'Thun a bit early through its Deathrattle and aggressive body.
Tokens:
Harvested Essence not only speeds up the Mage's C'Thun, it also provides a small buff and spell synergy with Cult Sorcerer. By costing 0, it allows for a lot of spell synergy. A bit scary with Flamewaker in wild, but unfair combos will always exist. Note that it can only be generated by Essence Reaper (I couldn't get rid of the rarity without getting rid of the set symbol).
Blizzard always introduces that one card which appears completely out of place for the set it is in (Celestial Dreamer, Luckydo Buccaneer, etc.). Lord of the Abyss, contradictory to the other C'Thun Mage cards, allows for an attempt at a control build. Since C'Thun is your win condition, stalling for a turn, playing a 6/8, and buffing your C'Thun all at once is huge value. Can also combo with Doomsayer if you think a 6/8 body is not enough to hold off the opponent. Visually, I'd expect a bunch of icy tentacles to drown each enemy minion, only to have them resurface frozen a second later.
Priest
One of big issue with C'Thun decks (and most control decks in Hearthstone in general) is finding ways to slow down your opponent. Priest in particular suffers from this, as they have few proactive cards. Twilight Corruptor helps to solve such a problem by being one of the few cards in Hearthstone that let you interfere with your opponent's plan early in the game.
Twilight Corruptor's effect allows you to do two things important to control in a card game: obtain information and trip up your opponent. By making a card cost 2 more, you can slow down or prevent annoying plays later in the game. For example, making your opponent's Frothing Berserker a 5 drop instead of a 3 drop means you can anticipate the aggressive Warrior to not play one unless he's desperate. Gadgetzan Auctioneer's combo potential with Druid or Rogue is severely weakened by costing 8 mana. In wild, you can completely lock combos out of the game by turning Brann Bronzebeard into a 5 drop. A lot of thinking for both players, as the opponent will eventually find out what card you saw was in their deck, and can therefore anticipate what you're playing around.
I know its a different style of C'Thun card, forgoing the 10 Attack requirement, however I believe that running the risk of having a dead card until turn 10 deserves some reward. I'm also introducing the word "make" here, but I believe it is intuitive enough. Note that it will not reveal cards that cost more than 8 mana, as it would be broken if it made your opponent's N'Zoth, the Corruptor unplayable. Only affects the single copy of the card revealed, so your opponent only has 1 card in their deck made horribly inefficient.
Now this is what Priest should've gotten. Worst case scenario, you play this in a desperate attempt to stabilize, raising your Hero's max health by 2 and providing an aggressive minion. Best case? A 5 mana 6/5 that brings a total of +14 health to your side of the game, crushing your opponent's hopes of clearing your board. Realistically this will probably only hit 2 or 3 minions, but such a stat boost is fairly relevant for stabilizing, which is exactly what C'Thun Control Priest needed. Might also push for a Midrange build.
Hooded Acolyte had an amazing stat line, but the effect was not worth wasting a card slot for Circle of Healing or incentivizing the hero power. Now its actually a decent option to play a three drop/spell on turn 5 and heal when Hooded Acolyte is present. It will also make your opponent think twice about healing in any way, making it an effective heal blocker.
An extremely weak board clear on its own. However, with just +6/+6 worth of C'Thun buffs, it quickly becomes formidable. Late game this will only be second to Twisting Nether. Still not sure if it is fast enough, but combined with some of the minion rebalancing on the other C'Thun cards, it might just work. Deals no damage if you have no C'Thun.
Rogue
The shenanigans card that C'Thun Rogue dreamed of. Allows you to duplicate your C'Thun effects, buff up C'Thun, and/or have something on board. Might be playable outside of C'Thun decks, although I don't think the effect is broken enough to do so (for reference, Shadowcaster is not seeing play, and I still think that card is insane).
Lets give Rogue a good weapon and some C'Thun synergy. This will ensure a good amount of tempo is kept to help mitigate the problem of Rogue lacking a strong board clear (can't ignore Blizzard's design philosophy entirely). Most weapons are usually used to deal the killing blow anyways, hence this weapon guarantees +4/+4 to C'Thun. Heavily inspired by a card I saw browsing random fan creations.
Speeds up the C'Thun Rogue significantly. With all minions becoming cheaper (including your C'Thun), the Rogue has a chance to close out the game before the opponent produces an insurmountable board. Expect his entering the battle sound effect to be "I'll put on a show!" implying you're about to do something elaborate with the cost reductions.
Warlock
C'Thun zoo desperately needed an early game minion who could leverage the risk of the deck having its hand clogged up with high costing minions such as Twin Emperor Vek'lor or C'Thun himself. Tentaclemancer is a solution to that problem, providing the player with a turn 1 play and allowing you to plan out a near future turn. So what kinds of options does it provide you with?
Tokens:
A really annoying early game pest, perfect for securing resilient boards. Flavour-wise, upon dying the wings on its back attach themselves to nearby creatures, letting them fly and avoid spells. I hope there isn't a broken combo that takes advantage of the ability to give an adjacent minion permanent Elusive.
A midgame defence that buffs C'Thun while trading into almost all 4 drops. Designed to to keep you alive in hopes of winning the late game. I really like the story the card tells; a friendly demon who the Tentaclemancer captured and experimented on, forcing it to collect blood for C'Thun. Sad how he dies as a sacrifice to the old god he never wanted to serve.
C'Thun decks hate running Doomguard, as the risk of discarding C'Thun is game-ending. So instead of using your hand as a resource, why not provide them with their own version of a Doomguard that uses C'Thun as a resource? Intended for players who believe they need to end the game fast or deal with a threat that they can't ignore. Note that you cannot drop C'Thun below 0/0, although attempting to play him as a 0/0 will instantly kill him.
The three options Tentaclemancer provides are fairly powerful, allowing you to secure the board, plan for the late game, or plan for the short game. This should ensure the decision made has a lot of skill involved, as you'll have to be able to predict what you'll need in the future based on the board and your opponent's deck.
Tentaclemancer is also me taking a shot at wide-RNG card discover effects (cough, Primordial Glyph, cough), showing how much more skillful it is to have a small pool of cards to choose from; the opponent actually knows what they have to play around with a 5/5 charge being the lynchpin of their fears. For anyone wondering why Tentaclemancer does not provide a 2 drop, it would be a completely braindead option, probably being picked almost every time in the early game. Note that all of the Tentacle Monsters can only be generated by Tentaclemancer (I couldn't get rid of the rarity without losing the set symbol).
The ideal zoo minion that the aggressive C'Thun Warlocks were lacking. Will compete with Defender of Argus and Ravenous Pterrordax but I think it is a very attractive card for the C'Thun zoo builds. Also curves beautifully with Darkshire Councilman, but expect that to be a rare occurrence, since keeping this card in your opening hand is risky.
Tokens:
Its just waiting to be sacrificed in some horrible fashion. Power Overwhelming in wild is a great option, and it rewards double C'Thun points with Usher of Souls. The card below is another option. Note that it can only be generated by Cult Beckoner (I couldn't get rid of the rarity without getting rid of the set symbol).
Warlock had a sacrificial aggro theme pushed with Usher of Souls. However the deck never took off because timing the sacrifices was difficult and Zoo did not like losing its board. Nether Crawler is an attempt to offer an incentive to want to kill off your guys, or make unfavourable trades to set your opponent's minions up as centipede food.
Nether Crawler has the potential to be played in Aggro, Midrange, and Control Warlock decks as it can be used as a board clear, high end finisher, or opportunistically in the event you believe C'Thun is your primary out in the game. Also thematically just sacrificing everything on the board to C'Thun is kind of eye pleasing. I'd expect a bunch of hellish centipede legs spiking up from beneath the ground and ravaging the board. Inspired by Magic's Massacre Wurm.
Warrior
A C'Thun based weapon. Its over-costed on its own and with a single C'Thun buff its still lacklustre. 2 C'Thun buffs and it becomes a very strong anti-aggro tool, mirroring the "...has at least 10 attack" conditions on some of the C'Thun cards. Not my original design (would post source if I remembered where I saw it), but it just seemed to fit perfectly into this batch of C'Thun revival cards.
For the threats that you don't want to waste premium removal on but also can't let go. Essentially threatens the opponent with setting up your C'Thun synergy cards or making your C'Thun a game ending monstrosity much quicker. In the event you happen to have a minion your opponent finds insignificant, you can have the messenger tell that minion about the glorious cult of C'Thun, creating a threat out of nowhere. Could lead to a midrange C'Thun Warrior. Also the flavour is on point.
Not only does it draw you a useful anti-aggro card, but a buff to C'Thun is provided by its dying breath. Ideally, it should provide C'Thun Warrior with a bit more early game, giving some more reliability to the Warrior's 3 mana slot, that previously was solely reactive. You can build your deck to guarantee Tentacles for Arms is an option on turn 4.
Stats
Cards Redesigned - 8 (2 Epics, 5 Rares, 2 Commons)
Cards Added - 21 (7 Epics, 9 Rares, 5 Commons)
Tokens Added - 12 (14 including Choose One effects)
Previous C'Thun Card Total - 19 (20 including Ancient Harbinger)
New C'Thun Card Total - 40 (41 including Ancient Harbinger)
Design Philosophies Questioned
Wild Sets - One way Blizzard could realistically buff C'Thun to make him more interesting and powerful would be to introduce a wild expansion set once Old Gods rotates out. This would mean they could provide more skillful or complicated cards (and by that I mean the level of complicatedness my cards provide, which is very little) without hurting the new player base, who could feel overwhelmed.
0 Cost Tokens - The design of the mage token spells that are generated might seem strange. One might argue a card is unintuitive by costing 0 mana, but if a card has a related combo or combo potential, I don't think its wrong as combos are intended for the player to figure out given enough games. I'd rather have a card have a slight learning curve to understand rather than it seeing no play, a story currently being shared by almost all of the Quest cards. The Quests were all costed at 0 mana initially, but were changed to 1 mana in testing because players would "...forget to play it..." . Almost all of them are too slow for a game where the first turn decides everything.
Token Information - One nice change that Hearthstone could do to make card generation by other cards more understandable for users is to show in the collection manager what cards are generated. That way, cards like Ysera and Xaril, Poisoned Mind can show users what they do without requiring google to know if their effects are worthwhile. Some kind of mini card bundle held together by a bow that the user could unravel to see what the card comes with would be aesthetically pleasing. This would allow for my C'Thun cards to exist, as the current state of Hearthstone would have Tentaclemancer as an Epic for his effect, when in truth he's simpler than Hydrologist.
Concluding Remarks
Well I did my best. All of the C'Thun classes now have 4 class cards in their packages and plenty of other cards to allow for different play-styles. I know some of the existing C'Thun cards are still a little mindless to play, and hence I can understand why people might find C'Thun boring. As a result, I did up the complexity on some of these cards to ensure that there's more thinking involved. At the very least these cards should give all of the C'Thun decks their own distinct feel and the proper foundation they need in order for anyone to have fun with them. Once again, if you have any criticisms feel free to let me know. Thank you for reading!
EDIT 1: Added in Evil Eye (had the card in my head but was overly hesitant). Also buffed Ancient Harbinger after reading through an article on how the card only had a 45% chance of success if played on curve assuming it survived. Thank you all for your feedback!
EDIT 2: Big update based on feedback. Every class now has a grand total of 4 class C'Thun cards, enough for customizability of C'Thun decks, even within the same class! Special thanks to AlchemistApprentice for their very constructive feedback on Mage.
EDIT 3: Final update. The Sisters of C'Thun were made much more interesting. A lot of poorly formatted cards were updated to look simpler and more in line with Hearthstone's formatting. Wretched Honor Guard was made less clunky. Also shout out to the Weekly Card Design Competition 6.07! Loved seeing all of the C'Thun cards.
Every night I hear the whispers. But why doesn't anyone else? C'Thun: What Went Wrong?
The reason no one plays c'thun decks are because they're too slow, and are boring to play.
Give me free packs: https://battle.net/recruit/HR62XS5TRN?blzcmp=raf-hs&s=HS&m=pc
Cult Jester seems just a little too strong. It should probably just reduce the cost of cards in your hand. I think that it would still need more cards and power but C'thun decks would definitely be stronger with these cards. An idea I had was a changed Twilight Elder.It will now be a 3 2/5 (has more survivability) If your C'thun has 10 or less attack, double it's attack and health.
Solid post. Nice review of what happened and how it could have been done differently.
I disagree on your assessment of how the classes were structured for C'thun classes but I understand what you're getting at.
What I would say that you didn't address is, what do you think Blizzard's purpose for C'thun decks was? Just because some of them rose to the top doesn't mean that blizz wanted there to be top tier deck out of C'thun.
If they meant for a lasting deck that could challenge for top 1-2 tier, then they failed but I really don't think that was the target.
Anyways, cheers.
brann left standard
While C'thun decks didn't top the meta, I wonder if that was even the intention. I joined HS durring Whispers, and building a budget C'thun Mage, kind of a hybrid freeze/tempo deck, was exceptionally cheap and good enough to get me to rank 15 my first month of play and rank 10 the second month. Later I transitioned into a legitimate freeze mage deck.
I actually hit legend with my C'Thun rogue deck.
Also, the only reason why C'Thun decks aren't played anymore is because Brann is no longer in standart, and so aren't many heal cards like Refreshment Vendor.
I play a Warrior C'Thun/Quest deck that does pretty well up to about rank 5 or so
What happened to C'Thun?
Patches
I think the only problem with C'thun is the lack of new C'thun cards. N'zoth gets new deathrattles, Yogg is based on the number of spells in your deck. C'thun is limited to the basic support he got during Wotog and that is it. That said. It is still fun to play with.
#makeoldgodsgreatagain.
Dirty Rat is what happened.
They're extremely boring to play. That's why the deck died out. Maybe with some random factors some people may start to pick up on it.
Thank you all for your feedback! Some ideas I'd like to reply to:
1) I completely overlooked Brann Bronzebeard leaving standard as a factor for why C'Thun fell out of popularity. He significantly sped up the deck to a speed that had a chance against a lot of aggro. I somewhat disagree with the idea of Dirty Rat entering standard being a defining issue, as any "discard" effect against the opponent will always be harmful against control, and yet we still had control decks existing in various stages of the MSoG meta.
2) Whether or not every C'Thun deck was meant to be competitive is a completely valid point. As someone like Caganius probably put best, they were just more solid options for new players to transition into. Of course while some still surged to the top, I guess this analysis is just me venting my frustration at how the "fun" synergies in some of the classes just felt weak (Warlock, Mage, Priest). I tried for so long to get C'Thun Warlock to work, but I could never make it past rank 10 (possibly my skill level but it just felt outclassed by zoo on all fronts).
3) @AlchemistApprentice I messed up. In hindsight, I power-creeped Kobold Geomancer even harder than the original Cult Sorcerer. Not entirely sure if my Demented Frostcaller is strictly better than Water Elemental since killing off a Murloc Warleader instead of just freezing it tends to be better (weak example) but I think you are correct. Any ideas for how C'Thun aggro/midrange Mage could be a thing? I'd prefer finding a way to make Cult Sorcerer and Demented Frostcaller good C'Thun cards.
Every night I hear the whispers. But why doesn't anyone else? C'Thun: What Went Wrong?
i think the intention of c'thun decks were to give newer players a breathing budget, you know something they could play and win some games with to grow their collections, without making it overly competitive, for that alone, it was great, ic an still recommend c'thund ecks to people i introduce to the game and they'll be able to grow their collections from there, it also introduced a cheapish controlish/midrangish decks for those new players that up to that point were getting pidgeonholed into aggro..
I don't play enough wild to say I know exactly why C'Thun decks fail there, however if I were to use a reputable source for wild deck information such as the wild-vs-data-reaper-report-2, I think it is safe to say Dirty Rat is not the problem. Just looking at all of the tier 1 and tier 2 decks, not a single one of their sample decklists run Dirty Rat, most likely in favour of a more synergistic game plan.
Even if we were to include all decks across the meta, we can only see Taunt Warrior, Control Warrior, and Renolock running Dirty Rat. According to their statistics at all ranks, only 9.77% of the meta is one of those three decks. Sure, that roughly translates to you having a chance of losing your win condition every 1 in 10 games, but if you're losing the other 9 games as well, I think its more of an issue with the design of C'Thun decks as a whole. I like to think card designs like Tainted Giant help to alleviate the fear of C'Thun being the only way for the deck to win the game, but you're free to disagree.
Again, I still think Dirty Rat is somewhat of a problem, but I'm willing to accept discard effects in card games. They allow for the disruption of combo and greedy control decks, and while I wish it was less RNG based, this is the best we'll probably ever get in Hearthstone.
Every night I hear the whispers. But why doesn't anyone else? C'Thun: What Went Wrong?
Such a pitty Paladin C'thun wasn't a thing, the lack of its own class C'thun cards was a surprise for me. But as you say and as a main Pala I tried my own C'thun version with Secrets with awesome results. My best win % ever!
They cannot print new cards for C'Thun that is what went wrong because if they do game will be boring and after rotation people will have cards with meaningless C'Thun synergy
BTW Has anybody tried C'Thun Taunt Handbuff warrior ? 1/ There's lots of taunt in it (Twilight Geomancer, Vel'kor, etc.) 2/ C'Thun also synergises with the handbuff mechanic!
I wanted to do it myself but I don't have the dust for it.
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