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Combo with Paladin and Priest cards. Does it OK?

Quote from Cogitio_Ergo_Sum >>

Quote from SDhn2a >>

Quote from Twilint >>

Combo with Paladin and Priest cards. Does it OK?

First- you're going to have to be more specific than 'buff'. For instance, is Power Overwhelming a buff? You could borrow Djinni of Zephyrs' text, but then you need to be careful, since the minion's low cost allows for a pretty serious snowball if played right. You could increase the mana cost, and the stats to match, but then we run the risk of making a duplicate Djinni.

Agreed. It's already been said here, but it's a wonderful idea in the sense that Paladin and Priest are the only classes with "buff" spells and one of the few classes that has received the best Dragon cards (besides Warrior). However, we already have enough powerful 1-drops as it is (which is why everyone uses "Curvestone" in the negative connotation), and the term "buff" is ambiguous (e.g. Inner Fire is a "buff" and a "nerf(?)" in different situations). Perhaps you could do something like "Whenever this minion's attack is increased, do X" (probably something with Dragon synergy), but maybe I'm just giving out stupid ideas :P.

Quote from Cogitio_Ergo_Sum >>

Hello! I'm going for an elemental theme, but I'm having a hard time making some ideas. I think these are cards are too complex/OP. What do you guys think?

Quote from Lathy >>

I think I FINALLY got a good idea, but could use some help with balance. I've tried to balance it around Flamestrike, Felfire Potion and Dragonfire Potion. It would seem more intuitive that the combo affected the undamaged minions and vice versa, but if the card read "Deal 5 damage to all damaged minions. Combo: Affect undamaged minions instead." and there are no damaged minions on board, the first part would be obsolete. The way it is now, you either play it when minions are at full health or you combo it with something that can damage minions.

Quote from Lathy >>

I think I FINALLY got a good idea, but could use some help with balance. I've tried to balance it around Flamestrike, Felfire Potion and Dragonfire Potion. It would seem more intuitive that the combo affected the undamaged minions and vice versa, but if the card read "Deal 5 damage to all damaged minions. Combo: Affect undamaged minions instead." and there are no damaged minions on board, the first part would be obsolete. The way it is now, you either play it when minions are at full health or you combo it with something that can damage minions.

Quote from Lathy >>

I think I FINALLY got a good idea, but could use some help with balance. I've tried to balance it around Flamestrike, Felfire Potion and Dragonfire Potion. It would seem more intuitive that the combo affected the undamaged minions and vice versa, but if the card read "Deal 5 damage to all damaged minions. Combo: Affect undamaged minions instead." and there are no damaged minions on board, the first part would be obsolete. The way it is now, you either play it when minions are at full health or you combo it with something that can damage minions.

Quote from Mewdrops >>

Quote from SvagoCorp >>

How did we suddenly get so many attention from the HearthPwn user base? Stable Portal has 114 votes right now O_o

 Well, that's pretty good, isn't it? I mean, the more the merrier, right? XD

Quote from Lathy >>

Quote from Toxibrah >>

Quote from Lathy >>

I think I FINALLY got a good idea, but could use some help with balance. I've tried to balance it around Flamestrike, Felfire Potion and Dragonfire Potion. It would seem more intuitive that the combo affected the undamaged minions and vice versa, but if the card read "Deal 5 damage to all damaged minions. Combo: Affect undamaged minions instead." and there are no damaged minions on board, the first part would be obsolete. The way it is now, you either play it when minions are at full health or you combo it with something that can damage minions.

 

 I like the idea. But is this just not a weaker Dragonfire Potion? Dealing with Damaged targets are usually at a really huge discount, and Undamaged alike. It is not really flexible, if other cards just does both thing at the same time at the same mana cost.

I think the effect is too huge. Maybe just squeeze the damage and mana cost a bit to make it seem more simple. I am not personally a big fan of huge Combo cards, and i would not believe i am the only one. Something like 3 mana deal 2 or 4 mana deal 3, would also make this more reasonable for the Warrior, because since Brawl is simply stronger than this, this could edge it out if it were cheaper.

Quote from MrUncreative >>

Quote from Lathy >>

I think I FINALLY got a good idea, but could use some help with balance. I've tried to balance it around Flamestrike, Felfire Potion and Dragonfire Potion. It would seem more intuitive that the combo affected the undamaged minions and vice versa, but if the card read "Deal 5 damage to all damaged minions. Combo: Affect undamaged minions instead." and there are no damaged minions on board, the first part would be obsolete. The way it is now, you either play it when minions are at full health or you combo it with something that can damage minions.

 

Definately like the art - wonder why that might be...

Both effects are neat and interesting utility options but since both can hit your own minions too, can be a little clunky and you can't get off both effects, i'm thinking about reducing the cost to at least 5. That sounds a lot more viable to me. After all, the effects are either an improved Sleep with the Fishes or... Dark Iron Skulker-effect - i guess?

Also the name is already fitting somehow, but i still feel it could capture the flavor a little better. I'm thinking about better alternatives but sadly have nothing to show yet :x

Cheers guys! I don't think it's possible to fully compare it to Dragonfire Potion nor Felfire Potion. There are actually still quite a few dragons in the meta (at least in Priest and Warrior), making Dragonfire Potion a bad play in some occasions. This card wouldn't have that issue. Another reason I don't think it's totally reasonable to compare it to Dragonfire Potion is that it's two(three) different classes we're talking about. I know I was the one who brought the card up, and that might've been a mistake :D I honestly wanted to give it a lower cast and damage output, but it felt too similar to Sleep with the Fishes. I do believe it's a bit troublesome with high-cost Combo costs as you mentioned.

Most often, minions are undamaged when you use a board clear, and I think 5 mana "deal 5 damage to all undamaged minions." seems a bit over the top, but I might be mistaken? All in all, I'm worried about making a card that's to similar to what either class currently have access to, and I'm also worried about making it too overpowered.

I really appreciate the feedback! I'll considder both of your suggestions and will probably tweak it a little. If you have any other suggestions, please let me know :) 

EDIT: And since you both suggested it, I'll deifnitely find a more suitable name!

Quote from Toxibrah >>

Quote from Lathy >>

I think I FINALLY got a good idea, but could use some help with balance. I've tried to balance it around Flamestrike, Felfire Potion and Dragonfire Potion. It would seem more intuitive that the combo affected the undamaged minions and vice versa, but if the card read "Deal 5 damage to all damaged minions. Combo: Affect undamaged minions instead." and there are no damaged minions on board, the first part would be obsolete. The way it is now, you either play it when minions are at full health or you combo it with something that can damage minions.

 And additionally i want to comment that the name is... Awkward, Imo. This is entirely up to yourself, i just want to list some other names that you could consider.

- The Firm and the Frail - Just making it sound a little more dramatic, i understand if you want the word count to be low tho.

- Ambush or Execution

- Terms of War

- Warcrime

- Exploit Weakness - My personal Favorite

• Confront and Flank - as in frontline: damaged and flank: undamaged
• Pierce and Pummel
• Change in Tactics
• Ambush or Execute/ Engage or Execute - somewhat similar to Toxibrah's "Ambush or Execution"
• Duel or Dispatch
• Ravaging Battleground - also a little drawn out though

I think my favourite is somewhere among the first two or three of those - might like the first one a tiny bit more...

Quote from MrUncreative >>

Quote from Lathy >>

Quote from Toxibrah >>

Quote from Lathy >>

I think I FINALLY got a good idea, but could use some help with balance. I've tried to balance it around Flamestrike, Felfire Potion and Dragonfire Potion. It would seem more intuitive that the combo affected the undamaged minions and vice versa, but if the card read "Deal 5 damage to all damaged minions. Combo: Affect undamaged minions instead." and there are no damaged minions on board, the first part would be obsolete. The way it is now, you either play it when minions are at full health or you combo it with something that can damage minions.

 

 I like the idea. But is this just not a weaker Dragonfire Potion? Dealing with Damaged targets are usually at a really huge discount, and Undamaged alike. It is not really flexible, if other cards just does both thing at the same time at the same mana cost.

I think the effect is too huge. Maybe just squeeze the damage and mana cost a bit to make it seem more simple. I am not personally a big fan of huge Combo cards, and i would not believe i am the only one. Something like 3 mana deal 2 or 4 mana deal 3, would also make this more reasonable for the Warrior, because since Brawl is simply stronger than this, this could edge it out if it were cheaper.

Quote from MrUncreative >>

Quote from Lathy >>

I think I FINALLY got a good idea, but could use some help with balance. I've tried to balance it around Flamestrike, Felfire Potion and Dragonfire Potion. It would seem more intuitive that the combo affected the undamaged minions and vice versa, but if the card read "Deal 5 damage to all damaged minions. Combo: Affect undamaged minions instead." and there are no damaged minions on board, the first part would be obsolete. The way it is now, you either play it when minions are at full health or you combo it with something that can damage minions.

 

Definately like the art - wonder why that might be...

Both effects are neat and interesting utility options but since both can hit your own minions too, can be a little clunky and you can't get off both effects, i'm thinking about reducing the cost to at least 5. That sounds a lot more viable to me. After all, the effects are either an improved Sleep with the Fishes or... Dark Iron Skulker-effect - i guess?

Also the name is already fitting somehow, but i still feel it could capture the flavor a little better. I'm thinking about better alternatives but sadly have nothing to show yet :x

Quote from Toxibrah >>

Quote from Lathy >>

I think I FINALLY got a good idea, but could use some help with balance. I've tried to balance it around Flamestrike, Felfire Potion and Dragonfire Potion. It would seem more intuitive that the combo affected the undamaged minions and vice versa, but if the card read "Deal 5 damage to all damaged minions. Combo: Affect undamaged minions instead." and there are no damaged minions on board, the first part would be obsolete. The way it is now, you either play it when minions are at full health or you combo it with something that can damage minions.

 

As for names, i'm not that big of a fan of "Exploit Weakness". It fits well - but only one half of the actual effect (i don't really count being undamaged as a "weakness" to be honest).
"The Firm and the Frail" has a really nice ring to it but is indeed a little drawn out. My ideas so far are the following:

• Confront and Flank - as in frontline: damaged and flank: undamaged
• Pierce and Pummel
• Change in Tactics
• Ambush or Execute/ Engage or Execute - somewhat similar to Toxibrah's "Ambush or Execution"
• Duel or Dispatch
• Ravaging Battleground - also a little drawn out though

I think my favourite is somewhere among the first two or three of those - might like the first one a tiny bit more...

Quote from Toxibrah >>

The reason i liked Exploit Weakness is because Its first of all a real Warrior ability.

That is a good point. Although i'm not convinced that enemys need to be undamaged for you to take them by surprise - sounds a little like odd reasoning on Blizzard's part.

I think Confront and Flank actually does support the idea of injured or unprepared since flanking may very well be interpreted as attacking the enemy where their defense is weak and they are not really prepared for it. It does communicate that idea a little less obviously though, i give you that.

As for Change of Tactics - on second thought, i think the optimal solution would be a combination of both: "Cange of Tactics" sounds more like a command someone would shout in the middle of battle. It's concise and would fit the artwork quite nice.

Edit: Stupid me - i found Exploit the Weakness. I wasn't smart enough to also check artifact traits - hush my hasty mouth :x
It also supports Colossus Smash and Mortal Strike - one armor-piercing and one finishing move. That makes the name infinitely more fitting! You do need some background-knowledge though.

In this case - @Lathy - i'd suggest either "Exploit Weakness"/"Exploit the Weakness" or "Change of Tactics"

Quote from MrUncreative >>

Quote from Toxibrah >>

The reason i liked Exploit Weakness is because Its first of all a real Warrior ability.

Is it? When i was designing my "Last Stand"-card for Murozond's Card Design Tournament i was actually browsing through warrior abilities for quite some time but i can't remember that one. If that's truly the case though, it definately does enhance the flavor of that name.

Quote from Toxibrah >>

Secound of all, i was thinking more in line of the idea of analyzing the opponents situation, and exploiting their condition, whether they were injured or unprepared. 

Of your ideas i really like Change in tactics , although it should probaly be something more in line with '' A Change of Tactics. ''. 

The undamaged flavor is supposed to mean that someone is taken by surprise, as seen in the only cards that uses the mechanic. Which is Backstab , Shadowstrike and Dark Iron Skulker . Confront and flank and Pierce and Pummel does not really support this idea. 

That is a good point. Although i'm not convinced that enemys need to be undamaged for you to take them by surprise - sounds a little like odd reasoning on Blizzard's part.

I think Confront and Flank actually does support the idea of injured or unprepared since flanking may very well be interpreted as attacking the enemy where their defense is weak and they are not really prepared for it. It does communicate that idea a little less obviously though, i give you that.

As for Change of Tactics - on second thought, i think the optimal solution would be a combination of both: "Cange of Tactics" sounds more like a command someone would shout in the middle of battle. It's concise and would fit the artwork quite nice.

Edit: Stupid me - i found Exploit the Weakness. I wasn't smart enough to also check artifact traits - hush my hasty mouth :x
It also supports Colossus Smash and Mortal Strike - one armor-piercing and one finishing move. That makes the name infinitely more fitting! You do need some background-knowledge though.

In this case - @Lathy - i'd suggest either "Exploit Weakness"/"Exploit the Weakness" or "Change of Tactics"