Hearthpwn

OMG I FORGOT TO MENTION

Results are in. We'll end on the 14th as initially planned and just have a 48 hour finale vote. =)

Quote from The_Odinson >>

Quote from nurgling13 >>

Quote from maxlot >>

Quote from nurgling13 >>

Quote from maxlot >>

Quote from nurgling13 >>

I've fleshed out some more card ideas, and changed a few old ones. I've got a potential set now:

Again, here is my custom MSoG Faction. What I've come up with is the Kursed Krew: the Worgen, the Demon Hunter, and the Nightare, a band of characters familiar with receiving and giving curses. Led by the seductive Kursemaster Kalith, this new gang is known for cursing those that oppose them, as well as cursing themselves for promises of power. Here are the tri-faction cards:

Here are all eight curses:

 and then there's Cursed!

I made the curses for the Nightmare and Demon Hunter classes, because you need to know what all the curses are for Kursemaster Karith, but I'm not going to make the collectible cards they go with. Some of these are designed to go in your own hand, like Curse of Wrath, while others are designed to go in your opponent's hand. I designed them all so that you don't really want them in your hand, though, so that it's bad to get them from Karith. 

One Night in Karazhan:

Mean Streets of Gadgetzan:

 I tried to stick closely to the themes of the Kursed Krew and gadgetzan gangs in general. That meant focusing more on the Worgen side of the class here. Please give me any feedback you can. 

 Now, I think your non-faction cards are cool, especially rage potion, but I think you need to focus on the faction in a different way. The thing is, the factions are there for you to use as a seperate archetype for your deck. For example, the Kabal was pushed as an archetype, and the way you make a kabal deck is to use no duplicates. They made this more possible than before by adding a bunch of board clears and useful removal options among with Kazakus and the singleton class legendaries. The grimy goons archetype was pushed by making cards that gave the buffed and adding tonnes of cards that were kinda mediocre without buffs, but scaled with the grimy goons abilities a lot, biggest example being dopplegangster. I don't even want to bother talking about how you make a jade deck.

So then, the question you should be asking when you make the faction... How do you make a Kursed deck? More specifically, a Kursed Worgen deck? The only card you have that's even slightly synergistic is Loan Wolf, by giving your opponent less opportunity to remove curses. So, I think you need to add more synergy cards to make a curse theme work, because I do like the idea. That does mean reworking curse of Wrath, and going for another curse for the opponent specifically, because at the moment, it goes against the idea of curses, with you holding it, yet it's so ridiculously oppressive and cruel if your opponent gets it off of the Kursemaster Kalith, because it acts as a Checkmate for everything you have the turn you play Kalith. I'm not too fond of that.

I disagree with your idea of how the factions work in MSoG. How do the non-Jade Golem cards for Rogue, Druid, and Shaman synergize with Jade Golems? Like Lotus Illusionist? That has nothing to do with the Jade Golem mechanic. Also, from the start, the curses aren't about cursing your opponent. Some of them are supposed to curse yourself for added power. The theme of the Kursed Krew is that they themselves are cursed. The Worgens are in there because of the Worgen curse, so it's essential to the faction's theme. Also, Kursemaster Karith gives your opponent the curses at the end of your turn, so Curse of Wrath doesn't screw over your opponent. They only take double damage from you if they don't pay the 1 mana to get rid of the Curse.

That being said, I'm thinking of a new card to work with the faction. It will use powrofcheese' art for Time Stop.

Muzzle. 3 mana spell. Silence a minion. Spells costs (2) more next turn.

Or something along those lines. Also, maybe Kursed Bloodboiler could curse your opponent if it dies on their turn.

 I think you misinterpretted my point on the factions. Not every card that you make has to synergise with the faction. Lotus Illusionist doesn't have to be synergistic because it's just a regular card. Yet, there is alsoJade Lightning,Jade Chieftain, and Jade Claws, which do have very obvious synergy with it, and thus an archetype about those cards and the faction specifically, can be created. There aren't any non-jade golem cards with synergy for jade golems, for jade golems are the synergy themselves. They themselves boost up jade decks. That's why archetypes for every faction exist, they all provide bonuses for building your deck a certain way, whether that being Grimy Goons synergising indirectly with some of your other card choices, Jade Golems synergising very directly just with them selves, or Kabal having it's own form of "synergy" in the sense that it reads your deck and then decides whether it's been built around them. As I said, Kursed decks are the only odd ones out, who don't have a strict archetype, just a couple of helpful cards available to 3 classes.

Anyway, it seemed to me that every single curse you had was detrimental, and thus designed to be given to your opponents hand, barring that one single card with an upside. The card itself is very well designed, it's Cursed Blade with FAR more of an upside that you can back out of at any moment. However, when you ask yourself, "What is a curse?" and you look at every single curse giving card you have and the curses themselves, you think "Curses are detrimental effects that you give to the opponent to mess them up, except for that one card that doesn't fit in with the category with all the other ones as it's a neutral effect, and your opponent can benefit from, which kinda messes up the legendaries ability"

After you explained that it was an end of turn effect, thanks for that by the way, I remembered it being a battlecry, it removed the otk problem, and spawned a new one... That is, doesn't giving your opponent a Curse of Wrath just suck for you now? Because, now your opponent just got a free 1 mana spell that allows them to punch you in the face for 4, or if they're in lead on the board, they can do it every turn as long as they keep your minions down. I know your idea is that thematically, they themselves, are cursed, but when you start modifying how some of your curses are good for you, and some are bad, you start pushing your factions ability from more of a mechanic to a theme, and it starts to mess with how you synergise with it, and how good and consistent your legendary is. Your legendaries effect vary from forcing your opponent to spend an extra bucketload of mana to avoid getting weighed down by Fel Curses and Curses of Sloth, to giving your opponent a couple of Curse of Wraths, meaning they tear 8 health off of you, but have to spend 2 mana. I don't think that's a healthy position for your legendary to be in.

So, what I'm getting at is, maybe Curse of Wrath is a little too negative towards your design space. I do like the idea of your Muzzle card though. If you included that as well as 1 or 2 other cards that synergised with the usual use of curses, then the faction will be less of a collection of disruptive cards for 3 classes to use, and more of a fun, exciting archetype for you to build your deck around. Kursed Bloodboiler having a cursing deathrattle is also pretty nice as long as it doesn't give them curse of wrath, because in that case, you're just giving your opponent the option of killing it to smack you in the face.

Quote from Hurien >>

I agree with @maxlot in that the factions provided a new archetype focusing on their mechanics for each class (regardless of their success or lack thereof), so the Kursed Krew should have some kind of synergy that allows this. It could be as simple as cards like Dispatch Kodo and Knuckles, which are mediocre cards by themselves but are very effective when mixed with Grimy Goons' smuggling, effectively doubling their damage in this case. An idea would be a card with an effect like "Whenever a Curse is played", or similar to Burgly Bully because all Curses are spells. Even a "Battlecry: If a player is Cursed" could be interesting. This way, you can build a deck around using these curses to your advantage, or simply use one or two cards in other archetypes, but there is a potential Kursed Worgen deck there to be used.

Apart from the tri-class cards, each class received between 2-4 cards directly related to their faction, Jades receiveng less because of their mechanic:

• Druid - Jade Blossom, Jade Idol, Jade Behemoth
• Hunter - Trogg Beastrager, Shaky Zipgunner, Smuggler's Crate, Hidden Cache
• Mage - Freezing Potion, Volcanic Potion, Potion of Polymorph
• Paladin - Grimscale Chum, Smuggler's Run, Grimestreet Outfitter, Grimestreet Enforcer
• Priest - Potion of Madness, Pint-Size Potion, Greater Healing Potion, Dragonfire Potion
• Rogue - Jade Swarmer, Jade Shuriken
• Shaman - Jade Claws, Jade Lightning, Jade Chieftain
• Warlock - Bloodfury Potion, Blastcrystal Potion, Felfire Potion
• Warrior - Hobart Grapplehammer, Grimestreet Pawnbroker, Grimy Gadgeteer, Brass Knuckles

And all this is being very strict. One could argue that Kabal legendaries are as thematic as Potions, and that great buff-receivers are core in the Grimy Goons.

I've thought about what you guys said, and I made some changes to the set. First, I changed Curse of Wrath so that it benefits you, but it is pretty unlikely to benefit your opponent. I've decided that all the Kursed Krew classes will have another curse-giving card that just gives Cursed!, because making an additional curse for each class would be too many. I changed Night Watchman to have an effect similar to Burgly Bully (I didn't want to do an effect based on if/how many curses your opponent has, because I think it would be too unreliable). Here's the new set:

Here are all eight curses:

 and then there's Cursed! 

Mean Streets of Gadgetzan:

Worgen also has two cards from previous sets that help with hand disruption:

Is this enough to make a hand disruption archetype? You've also got Burgly Bully and the other Trogg cards to play with. 

 

 To start, your faction is cool. I like playing on your classes Cursed status a bit and finding good allies to make it all work with.  I already reviewed some of these so I'll skip those and just touch on the others.

Dapper Lycanthrope - This seems very pushed. Like very very pushed. I know it only buffs class minions, but its +2/+2 for 1 stat point. That can't seem reasonable.

New Blood - Great non-scaling power 1 drop. OMG, I love the non-scaling and somewhat difficult condition.

Muzzle - This seems strong for 2 mana. Its not totally insane in terms of huge late game disruption but this is going to be totally bananas in an aggro deck. It not only silences Taunts or something like Doomsayer, it also protects against targeted removal and AoE. Damn, this is scary.

Rage Potion - Interesting card. The attack on opponents turn thing is always interesting. Seems fairly balanced. Doesn't prevent a fair amount of lethals, just buys you time.

Kursed Kleaver - This seems fair. Its definitely strong, but random so I think that's fine.

Loan Wolf - WHAT!! THE!! ACTUAL!! FUCK!!! Sorry, that's my base reaction. If you Coin this on turn 2 or play it on turn 3, you cut your opponent off at the knees. If you follow it up with a second one the game might just be over. This is a crazy crazy huge tempo swing. Even when they just kill it the turn after you play it you cut them off of 2 mana that turn, that's a completely fair amount of tempo considering, and the upside is easily winning the game.

Night Watchman - This seems fine, but a bit wordy. IDK why it can't just be, "When your opponent plays a spell, deal them 2 damage." Mind Control Tech cuts out the word Minion the second time around, and Harrison Jones doesn't double down on clunky wording, and Deathlord or Trade Prince Gallywix should clear it all up perfectly.

Kursed Bloodboiler - This one has weird wording but I get it. Just a suggestion but you could also potentially use Active instead of Current. 

Dr. Freeze - I don't fully get this name, I mean I know its a Yeti but otherwise I'm confused as to why. This also seems fairly strong. Its very close to a 6/6 with Battlecry: At the start of your opponents turn Frost Nova, unless your opponent pays 2, Frost Nova again. The other thing that you need to remember is Freezing that happens on your turn freezes that turn and all the way through the next. so even if they play them, those 2 minions aren't attacking for 2 turns. Without testing though I can't say how good it is though, but it seems very strong.

 

Quote from thepowrofcheese >>

Thanks Asylum for the clarification. Hopefully my idea below will fit. So sadly I haven't gotten any feedback on my faction yet! I went through my cards and make a few new updates. Curse may go to 4 damage instead of 3, but I'd love some feedback on the balance. So, here's what I've got so far!

Challenge cards

I might as well make the Rager knockoff somewhat useful...

It's hard to make a card that thematically fits your class, references another, AND fits a card set. Also, any idea if the Naxx watermark is going to be fixed? Thematically, Freeze Time may go to Naxx and Entropic Alchemy reworked to an engineering theme in GvG.

 Karazhan

Hm...maybe the portal should do something besides summon more minions. Might get scrapped. It could fit in as Gadgetzhan art.

 Faction and Keyword Explanation

My faction is the Cult of Thek. Like Nurgling's my faction involves curses, but to a different effect. The Cult is composed of Chronomancers, Liches, and members of Twilight's Hammer. Super simplified lore below:

Thek was a Hydra loa, worshipped by a minor troll tribe in Tanaris. Their tribe was small, but their god kept them strong and cursed their many enemies. Until the Bronze Dragonflight intervened, destroying their sacred temples and killing their god.

But a god like Thek does not simply stay dead.

Ya'Kul was a young priestess when she heard the voice of Thek. Charged by the dark Hydra with rebuilding his cult, YaKul traveled to Tanaris, and found the bustling port of Gadgetzhan to greet her. The city was built atop Thek's sacred grounds. Declaring the city corrupt and unworthy, Ya'Kul has gathered a cult to curse the populace and bring the city to it's knees.

Liches have followed her promises of power. Twilight's Hammer cultists believe there is a link between Thek and their own dark masters. And many young Chronomancers, disillusioned by the Timewalkers and the factions of Gadgetzhan, have rallied with this growing power. Seeking someone to lead them, Ya'Kul spoke through the Chronomancers to one Erin Farthing in the past. Lead by Ya'Kul instead of Chromie, this alternate Erin would grow and come to Gadgetzhan, joining the cult and taking the name Fateshatter in opposition to her temporal clone. Their goal is to destroy the factions of Gadgetzhan and allow Thek to rise again.

 

The Cult of Thek uses the keyword Curse. Most of their cards involve applying a Curse to a random card in their opponent's hand. This gives the card a red highlight, similar to the token for Curse of Rafaam. When they play such a card, after the card's effects resolve, they are dealt 3 damage divided among their characters. The goal is to Curse multiple cards in the opponent's hand, applying ever increasing damage and forcing your opponent into tactically difficult spots.

Some quick Curse rules:

A card cannot be Cursed twice.
Curse triggers will attempt to target unCursed cards as the opponent's hand allows.
Both players can see the highlighted boarder, but only the player with the cards can see which ones are Cursed.
The damage is not affected by any spell damage.
Curse damage only triggers if the card is played. Not if it is countered, discarded, shuffled, or put from the hand into the battlefield.
If the card is shuffled or transformed (Shifter Zerus) it retains the Curse.
If a Cursed card is copied, the copy is NOT cursed.
Once a Cursed card is played and the effect triggered, it is not longer Cursed. Even if it is copied, returned to hand, etc.

With the Chronomancer, this faction works well with a midrange deck that includes copying effects to replay minions and reCurse cards. It also fits in a Fatigue deck to limit your opponent's options and pile on damage over time. 

 Gadgetzhan Cards

For Chronomancer and Worgen, if y'all are having difficulty crossing over thematically, consider that Worgen are basically werewolves. I can think of a few potential thematic crossovers relating to the phases of the moon, no?

Phases of the moon seemed kinda indirect. This is what I've been able to come up with so far for the crossovers, BTW:

I figured since Arugal summoned stuff from another dimension, that's kinda like a Chronomancer thing.

Quote from OBoily >>

@nurgling13

Hmm, are you certain that Arugal's Portal is fairly priced? It gives two (good class) cards, and their price is reduced? Arcane Intellect combined with Unstable Portal is sure to be good.

Quote from thepowrofcheese >>

Quote from nurgling13 >>

Phases of the moon seemed kinda indirect. This is what I've been able to come up with so far for the crossovers, BTW:

I figured since Arugal summoned stuff from another dimension, that's kinda like a Chronomancer thing.

Thanks for the feedback, @nurgling13! I've got a few ideas for the cards and I'm working on the rebalancing. Thankfully both you and @OBoily agree on several points, and I agree and both of your evaluations for the cost of Curse.

Test Subject looks like a perfect Alchemist crossover. Flamethrower Brigade works for Flame Wielder crossover. Arugal's Portal is cool, but like OBoily said, may be underpriced. Perhaps it could copy a Worgen you already have in play? 

Here are some updated crossover ideas. The top 3 are my current favorite ideas, but I've got alternates for the Worgen and Alchemist cards.

 Alternates

Worgen Alternatives

Alchemist Alternatives

Updated Faction Legendary - looking for balance feedback!

Quote from nurgling13 >>

Quote from OBoily >>

@nurgling13

Hmm, are you certain that Arugal's Portal is fairly priced? It gives two (good class) cards, and their price is reduced? Arcane Intellect combined with Unstable Portal is sure to be good.

Quote from thepowrofcheese >>

Quote from nurgling13 >>

Phases of the moon seemed kinda indirect. This is what I've been able to come up with so far for the crossovers, BTW:

I figured since Arugal summoned stuff from another dimension, that's kinda like a Chronomancer thing.

Thanks for the feedback, @nurgling13! I've got a few ideas for the cards and I'm working on the rebalancing. Thankfully both you and @OBoily agree on several points, and I agree and both of your evaluations for the cost of Curse.

Test Subject looks like a perfect Alchemist crossover. Flamethrower Brigade works for Flame Wielder crossover. Arugal's Portal is cool, but like OBoily said, may be underpriced. Perhaps it could copy a Worgen you already have in play? 

Here are some updated crossover ideas. The top 3 are my current favorite ideas, but I've got alternates for the Worgen and Alchemist cards.

 Alternates

Worgen Alternatives

Alchemist Alternatives

Updated Faction Legendary - looking for balance feedback!

How can I balance Arugal's Portal? Is Unstable Portal only balanced because you can get a really shitty minion out of it? Would my card be balanced if it cost 5 mana? What it was 4 mana, but the cost reduction on the cards was 1?

Quote from thepowrofcheese >>

Some new and updated cards to round out my set. Might not use the 3rd. I'm also still thinking of the Faction legendary and going through previous sets.

Finally, where might I find how to manipulate columns for these forums? I'd love for my final post to have text and cards side by side, similar to how blizzard previewed the MSG factions.

Quote from The_Odinson >>

Quote from thepowrofcheese >>

Some new and updated cards to round out my set. Might not use the 3rd. I'm also still thinking of the Faction legendary and going through previous sets.

Finally, where might I find how to manipulate columns for these forums? I'd love for my final post to have text and cards side by side, similar to how blizzard previewed the MSG factions.

 I'm pretty sure you have to do that by just creating images using another program that have your card images on them and putting the words on that, saving the whole thing together and posting it as one larger image. Its just a whole different process, its not something I think most people do using the actual forums format.

Quote from thepowrofcheese >>

So folks are aware because nurgling asked me about it, you MAY include additional alternate heroes for your class, and those additional alternate heroes DO NOT have to adhere to the Phase I hero challenge. However, the final poll will still be presented with only your primary hero, and so should your finale topic emphasize your primary hero over your alternate hero.