Hearthpwn

Quote from Aelxer >>

Quote from Diamon_Boots >>

Quote from Diamon_Boots >>

Quote from aaro54 >>

About the interaction of Slow Motion and Peer into the Future, I'm not sure if it would work as you say, but it could be tested by having a spell be countered by Counterspell while the caster has a Flamewaker or other card like that in play. I atleast assume that it would work the same way.

 I will test it out, and tell the results here. Wait a bit guys.

 The result is: No, Flamewaker does not trigger if the spell is countered. Hope I've been helpfull.

 It's as I suspected then, the spell doesn't count as cast if countered.

Quote from Aelxer >>

Quote from nurgling13 >>

Quote from Aelxer >>

Quote from Diamon_Boots >>

Quote from Diamon_Boots >>

Quote from aaro54 >>

About the interaction of Slow Motion and Peer into the Future, I'm not sure if it would work as you say, but it could be tested by having a spell be countered by Counterspell while the caster has a Flamewaker or other card like that in play. I atleast assume that it would work the same way.

 I will test it out, and tell the results here. Wait a bit guys.

 The result is: No, Flamewaker does not trigger if the spell is countered. Hope I've been helpfull.

 It's as I suspected then, the spell doesn't count as cast if countered.

I don't think this is a good comparison. Flamewaker triggers when a spell is 'cast'. Your card says it triggers when 'played'. Is that the same thing? A better example would be seeing if Questing Adventurer triggers when you play a spell but it's countered. Since you've come up with a new mechanic, I also think it would be fine if you defined the interaction between these two cards. Slow Motion isn't exactly the same as any card that currently exists as I see it.

To be honest I wasn't really paying attention to that particular wording when I wrote the effect, I'm not sure if there's really a difference aside from form (you use play when it applies to any card/minions and cast when it only applies to spells, I think), and if so, I should probably change it to cast instead of play. Besides, I cannot really define it arbitrarily if there's a precedent of a similar interaction working differently though (like with Questing Adventurer/Flamewaker).

Quote from Aelxer >>

Quote from nurgling13 >>

Quote from Aelxer >>

Quote from nurgling13 >>

Quote from Aelxer >>

Quote from Diamon_Boots >>

Quote from Diamon_Boots >>

Quote from aaro54 >>

About the interaction of Slow Motion and Peer into the Future, I'm not sure if it would work as you say, but it could be tested by having a spell be countered by Counterspell while the caster has a Flamewaker or other card like that in play. I atleast assume that it would work the same way.

 I will test it out, and tell the results here. Wait a bit guys.

 The result is: No, Flamewaker does not trigger if the spell is countered. Hope I've been helpfull.

 It's as I suspected then, the spell doesn't count as cast if countered.

I don't think this is a good comparison. Flamewaker triggers when a spell is 'cast'. Your card says it triggers when 'played'. Is that the same thing? A better example would be seeing if Questing Adventurer triggers when you play a spell but it's countered. Since you've come up with a new mechanic, I also think it would be fine if you defined the interaction between these two cards. Slow Motion isn't exactly the same as any card that currently exists as I see it.

To be honest I wasn't really paying attention to that particular wording when I wrote the effect, I'm not sure if there's really a difference aside from form (you use play when it applies to any card/minions and cast when it only applies to spells, I think), and if so, I should probably change it to cast instead of play. Besides, I cannot really define it arbitrarily if there's a precedent of a similar interaction working differently though (like with Questing Adventurer/Flamewaker).

 If you read the notes on Counterspell, some effect still do trigger if a spell is countered, like Questing Adventurer, while some don't, like Flamewaker. The difference between Flamewaker and Questing Adventurer is that Questing Adventurer activates when a card is played. Flamewaker says 'after', so it triggers on spell completion. Effects that trigger upon spell completion, like Flamewaker and Overload, do not trigger if that spell is countered. Effects that trigger just when a card is played, like Questing Adventurer or Slow Motion, still will trigger if that spell is countered, because you still played it, and they don't care if the spell was completed. So, I think we have resolved this. You will not get Slow Motion back if the spell they cast is countered.

 Good to know. The problem wasn't in the cast/play thing (I still think it's the same mechanically, since Mana Wyrm benefits from a Countered spell and it says cast) but only the when/after wording. Given I'm using an 'if' wording (is there precendent for that?), I suppose I do get to define whether that implies completion or not (and I'd say not, since that was the source of the problem).

@thepowerofcheese

Only cards I think are off balance are: 

Run Out the Clock: I feel for the cost you might as well truly make it feel like it has an impact and give them 15-20 seconds.

Divergence: I feel like this could cost 6. Echo of Medivh costs 4 and that makes it easier to get value out of it because you can play stuff with it more than with Divergence. Plus your opponent may not play many minions, and even if they do chances of both sides having lots of stuff isn't too high due to trading. Due to all that I feel 6 is more reasonable.

Since the discussion has slowed down heaps, I'm gonna post a few of my ideas for the next phase if anyone is interested :P

@Broeck1

Woodland Giant: Seems fair. You can get him free often with aoe and trading but the game will have had to of gone on awhile and you need a good setup so he wont be as powerful as the turn four 8/8 giants handlocks can easily get, but he'll still be strong.

Ysera's Champion: Strong but fair much like Alexstrasza's Champion. Also nice flavor!

Illusion of Infinity: Seems too strong imo. Three cards is worth about 5 mana. Looking at Cat Trick and Explosive Trap as examples since they see lots of play, the secret delay gives 1-2 bonus mana onto the card. This would be fair drawing 2 cards as it saves 1 mana from Arcane Intellect but given it needs another friendly secret, something that needs more setup than most secrets it should get the full 2 bonus mana. I'd love for this to be able to draw 2.5 cards but as that's not possible, I'm not to sure how to go about a nurf but it does need one imo.

Vine of Origin: Seems too weak. Having 0 attack is a drawback on it's own that lets you have extra stats (Doomsayer, Public Defender) and the inspire effect adds a really meh card to your hand given this guy wont see play till turn 6 where he's up against Emperor Thaurissan. I'd make him a 0/8 or 0/9.

Unfortunately I have to go for a bit, so I'll review the rest of your set later tonight or tomorrow.

Fury of Dragnaros: Seems a tad weak when looking at Shadow Word: Death. You'll only really get value out of this when you use it with aoe so it could probably cost 2 as if you use aoe then this will be hitting something injured so it'd be similar to Execute. That said if your deck has synergies with this it might be fine as 3.

Forest Guardian: Seems fair though its super simple for a rare so you should swap the rarity of this with Fury of Dragnaros.

Noxious Fern: Seems fair.

Emerald Chant: This is hard to judge. You have to have a beast dragon hybrid deck for it so it's a unique deck card but it is really powerful given Wisps of the Old Gods costs 7. I'd either make this cost 5 or only draw one card. It might be fine as is though if the beast dragon hybrid deck isn't too strong.

Kalimdor Protector: Seems fair.

Beset: I have no idea what Thorny Vines are so I can't really comment on this card but I will mention that "Give all Thorny Vines" isn't very clear. Usually anything with the term "all" refers to things on the field unless otherwise stated such as Hellfire compared to Grimestreet Outfitter. I'd add something to make it clear that it's Thorny Vines in either plays hands.

Lunara: Scary card. I'm not sure of your set as a whole so I can't really comment on this but if you have any mass poison buff or a card that deals damage multiple times with posion, then I'd suggest scrapping this idea as it'd be super easy to OTK with it.

Quote from Broeck1 >>

Hey guys,

Time for me to post my cards. Would like some feedback :)

The class:

 

Class lore, play-style, unique keyword and hero power 

Since demigod Cenarius fathered his first daughter Lunara, anyone stupid enough to harm the forests regrets the day he ever stepped foot in Kalimdor. Lunara is the first Dryad and leader of her kind, she inspires many of her daughters and nieces. Dryads guard the shadowed forests of Kalimdor with indivious poisons and traps. There is one particular niece Lunara is very fond of, youngest daughter of her older brother, Remulos. No-one but Lunara has ever seen her and lived to tell about it, but everyone knows her strength and fears her wrath. She is called Meliai, Dryad of the Ashen Tree. However, most people refer to her as the Goddess of Bees. Just for clarity, she didn't earn that name because she likes flowers..

---

Class Playstyle

Dryads are shy creatures, but are able to cause some serious damage to anyone that would harm their forests. They attack with poisons and fight from the shadows. They hate magic and have various tricks up their sleeves to fight it. However, they are also able to casts spells themselves (obviously mostly to help their forest grow). 

The class focusses mostly on a control and combo playstyle. It will have a lot of cards that protect your hero and deal damage to enemy minions. Dryads usually strike when their opponent is weakened. With their poisonous attacks, they are able to deal delayed damage to opponents. 

The Dryad class will add some new features to Hearthstone:
1) New keyword: Poisonous (X)
2) New mechanic: Can't be damaged by spells.
3) A focus on combo and dealing delayed damage.

---

The hero power

One of the Dryad's core mechanic is dealing delayed damage. Think about poison, growing plants etc. The hero power works a lot like Curse of Rafaam and Cursed!. At first, this might seem a weaker Mage hero power, because its random and can't damage the enemy hero. However, you're opponent will have to pay one mana to get rid of this effect and if (s)he doesn't this effect will stack.

---

Unique keyword

The Dryad comes with a class specific keyword called Poisonous (x). It also focuses on dealing delayed damage.

Poisonous (x) can be seen on minions, weapons and damaging spells.

Poisonous is an effect that has quit some similarities to Freeze, well mechanically that is. A character damaged by a card with Poisonous is considered Poisoned (like Freeze causes a character to be Frozen). So, in game this would show as some kind of border on the character (a green glow and all kinds of poisonous bubbles floating from it?). Though, there are two differences compared to Freeze. For one, a character has to be damaged by a card with Poisonous, unlike Freeze that can simply be applied to a character (Frost Nova). Second, Poisonous affects a character for a certain value. For instance, when a character gets damaged by Witheroak, the character is Poisoned for 3. Hence, the effect (green glow) comes with a certain numeric value. 
The Poisoned effect lasts for one turn and will fade once your next turn starts and the Poisonous damage is inflicted. However, Poisonous damage can stack when the same target is damaged by Poisonous for more than once. For instance, when a character is damaged by Witheroak and Feralas Beetle, it will take 4 damage at the start of your next turn. Another reason why the numeric value of the Poisoned status is needed.

The Basic Set

The Classic Set

Spoiler (click to hide)

Cards to showcase for Phase IV

Explanation:

Woodland Giant: This is made for the Beefcake challenge. It shows off a new mechanic for the Dryad class; "For each time a character got damaged..". This trigger works really well in this class, because it benefits from delayed damaged. The Poisonous keyword, Protect the Queen! (basic set) and Noxious Vine (TGT set) are examples.

Ysera's Champion: I personally loved this art. It's obviously a reference to Alexstrasza's Champion and balanced against that. As you'll see on other cards, I will try to make Beast and Dragon Dryad a thing.

Illusion of Infinity: If you hadn't noticed, I am naming al my Secrets Illusions. I made this card because I liked the idea of 'Secret-combo-ing'. This idea started with Illusory Dreams (classic set). I think it's awesome that Secrets could be able to cause a chain reaction. This one is probably the most dead card in the late game Hearthstone has ever seen, however, the effect is pretty huge at only 2 mana. Also, I personally like it, because its really unique to hearthstone. Hope you like it too :)

 BRM:

Explanation:

Fury of Dragnaros: Obviously a reference to my Dragnaros the Firefly (Classic legendary), which looks similar to the fire dragon in this art. It has the same effect as Woodland Giant, getting stronger the more characters got damaged this turn before playing the card. It can only target minions.

Forest Guardian: Like I said I am trying to make a Dragon/Beast Hybrid viable.  At first Dragons and Dryads might seem like a weird combination. The way I see it Dragons are protectors of the forests, making its inhabitants stronger and safer. 

 TGT:

Explanation:

Noxious Fern: It's the strong 1-drop every class deserves and can obviously be compared to Northshire Cleric, Tunnel Trogg and Mana Wyrm. I think Noxious Fern is a bit on the low end of that list, tho pretty decent as well. Works well in this class because of the benefits from delayed damage.

Emerald Chant: Chanting usually works pretty well in Tournaments. This one is another go at Dragon/Beast Synergy. The 4 mana +2/+2 on only Beast is pretty bad at its own, but being able to draw two cards as well, can potentially make this card pretty strong.

Kalimdor Protector: You'll probably have forgotten already, but Dryad is about Armor as well! Protecting the forest with hardened bark that is. This minion is the third card this Phase making use of the "For each time a character got damaged this turn.." effect. 

Beset: A nasty card, stuffing your opponent's hand with cards and making the damage they deal Poisonous. Would work if you'd be able to use your hero power often.

Lunara: So Lunara finally enters the world of Hearthstone. For the people that don't know her, she is THE dryad (also a playable character on Heroes of the Storm). In my personal lore, she is the aunt of my hero Meliai. Lunara is know for wearing their enemies down with poisonous attacks. When the enemy is weakened, she strikes to kill them. Hence, this effect.

 What do you guys think? At the mods, I think everything is within the rules and following the challenges right?

Thanks a lot in advance for feedback!

 

Quote from Turkeybag >>

Since the discussion has slowed down heaps, I'm gonna post a few of my ideas for the next phase if anyone is interested :P

Reminder of class:

---

These are my league of explorers cards so far. I am going to swap one of them to old gods though as no other class got two discover cards from explorers.

Secret Cauldron: This is your typical cheap discover card. This one costs 2 as it gives a discount to concoct to make it more interesting. This card can discover concoct (X) cards as well and they wont get the discount so that'll add some interesting decisions.

Bottled Void: A big aoe with the added concoct bonus of an almost Convert. Will add some interesting choices as you may want to try clear out so cheap minions before using this to make sure you can discover their strongest card, but that then weakens the aoe.


These are my two phase II challenge cards so they are largely locked in.

Toxic Muk: A powerful taunt minion but your opponent can use it against you with good trades, making you waste your potions on weak minions. Should be a fun and interactive card!

Leon, Master Mutator: Old gods is all about mutations and this guy can mutate just about anything! Slow effect with a big tempo loss since your shuffling one of your own things back into your deck but the payoff can be huge. The bigger the minion you give up the bigger the payoff. Just think of a 17/17 untargetable deathwing! He's also great for getting your old gods and battlecrys back.


Forbidden Knowledge: This would be the only card in the game that lets you search for a specific card when you need it. If you need Leon for a combo, build your deck with him as your only 3 cost card and then you can get him every time with this, assuming you can get yourself to 3 remaining mana. The bigger the card you want the bigger the cost. If you need your game winning C'Thun your gonna have to spend a full 10 mana to draw him, but that can still be worth it if he'll win you the game next turn. You really need to know your deck with this as if you draw the card you needed this for you need to know what other cards are worth getting with it. Plus this card will shape many decks as they want it to get specific cards, thus changing their curve to fit that.

Cruel Healing Potion: Your basic 2 cost 3 damage card but this one has a very unique spin on it. It's easy to screw up with so you better be careful. If you want the damage you best make sure the damage is fatal, if you want the healing then the opposite is true and you may need to heal the minion with your hero power first to make sure this doesn't kill it. Also watch out for spell damage! The healing is really good for bigger minions and of course works wonders with the next card.

Fleshmelted Abomination: This card is complex. I'm hoping not too much so for hearthstone as I love the design and deck shaping he brings. Hopefully the effect is clear off of the card but if not, the "Can only be destroyed by damage at the end of your turn" part basically means that even when he reaches 0 health or less, he will not die. However if he is still below 0 when you end your turn, he will. This is why he only has taunt when above 0 health as otherwise he would be an unbreakable wall. Though you can combo him with taunt giving cards for him to have it permanently. Hex, Shadow Word: Death and all that will still kill him normally. The idea is that if you can heal him back above 0 health then he can survive to fight another day. This works really well with Cruel Healing Potion as he'll always survive the damage, it works great with the somewhat unused card Elixir of Life (basic card, heals for 11 and gives +2 health to minions), and it also works really well with Leon as he's the perfect Leon target when you can't heal him. You can of course use your hero power to heal him but your opponent will know how much healing you can do with that and can overkill this guy to prevent it. He can still be attacked when below 0 health (bringing him further into the negatives so you need more healing to keep him) but cards like Arcane Missiles and C'Thun will not hit him as they don't hit anything at or below 0 health. I might make him a 6/7 as taunt with can't attack is worth +2 stats with my math so that means the undying effect is worth -1 stat atm but it might be worth -2.


My C'Thun synergy cards.

Tampered Faceless: A simple common. Rather weak without the concoct effect but the concoct effect is the biggest C'thun buff you can get so if you wanna go all out on C'thun, you want this guy. Given most C'thun buffs don't cost any stats on the cards they are on I think 2 mana for +5/+5 to C'thun is fair especially given this guy could easily have +2/+2 on his own.

Elixir of Gods: If your playing C'thun this is the biggest buff card in the game once you've powered your C'thun up. That is why the minion can't attack heros the turn it's used to prevent charge OTK combos. I will probably make it completely prevent the minion from attacking heros as stealth minions would still be super OP with this and the buff is really really powerful so making it come with a solid drawback is fair. Also if the text is unclear, this does not remove the buff from your C'thun, just gives a minion a copy of said buff.

 

@freddoccino

Ionize: The second option is a fair bit more powerful than the first. It saves 2 mana on Flamestrike and the healing doesn't matter much. The second one only saves 1 mana on Consecration and it doesn't hit face. Given that I'd make the 5 mana one deal 3 damage and heal for 3. Would still be really strong looking at Excavated Evil but it wouldn't be broken

North Sea Pilot: The enemy hero is almost always gonna be damaged making this guy ridiculously inconsistent when trying to get the damage. I'd just make him give the +2/+2 to be more simple as the cards basically always gonna do that anyway. The second is worded wrong and hard to make sense of. I think you mean "Deal 1 damage. If the target is the enemy hero, deal 3 instead" and if that's the case then he seems fair.

Quarter: I strongly dislike the first one and would advise you not use it. Getting like 10 cards out of 1 makes all sorts of insane combos possible. The second one also makes little sense in my opinion as you would rather just run Navigate itself instead and I can't imagine a world where people want 3-4 Navigates. I'd try something else for the challenge.

Only had a tiny bit of time to reply so I'll do the rest of my replies later.

@Broeck1

I edited my last post to include the rest of your cards.

@The_Odinson

Replies in spoiler:

 Thanks for your feedback :D

Quote from freddoccino >>

Going between a few cards right now. I'd just like some opinions on different versions of ideas.

Just a number difference. May end up depending on the other costs of my TGT cards.

The second version is giving respect to Ironforge Rifleman. Might still end up going for a different effect. It's not that much different from the way I did it first but there were some mixed ideas on it so I want to be certain it's good on all grounds.

Not too certain on this but I'm still thinking of ways to meet Challenge 2. I could incorporate this into North Sea Pirate, but then I'd need another guy for the Beef. I have the first version at 1 mana because it seems like it would actually be unfavorable to have them and 10 cards, but you would be down a card playing one thinking again, so maybe that's not right.

 

Quote from Turkeybag >>

@Broeck1

I edited my last post to include the rest of your cards.

@The_Odinson

Replies in spoiler:

Bottled Void: I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one. I imagine you'd have compared this to Flamestrike but you have to remember that Flamestrike is actually underpowered. If we compare Consecration to Volcanic Potion, since the 2 hero damage is worth basically nothing, it's fair to say that if you make a one sided aoe affect both sides it can cost 1 less. This is consistent with Arcane Explosion / Whirlwind. So now it is fair to assume that a 1 mana increase to Dragonfire Potion would allow me to have a 7 mana deal 5 damage to all enemy minions. Of course I imagine much like how the damage of aoe per mana isn't linear, the cost of making an effect one sided wont be either which is why I made this cost 8. Since the base effect is so strong I made the concoct effect rather weak. Using your hero power to draw is only worth a tiny bit more than your normal hero power so the concoct effect is a really minor bonus equivalent to about 2 health looking at Life Tap. All that said I will have to test this card out to make sure it isn't as strong as you suspect.

Forbidden Knowledge: I think the ability to essentially always draw the exact card you want is worth a hell of a lot. You can get The Golden Monkey extremely fast by using this to draw Elise Starseeker / the map / the monkey, you can draw whatever you use Leon on to get something really damn strong really early, you can get your combos way faster than you could otherwise and so on. This card is definitely hard to judge but I know of games where I'd have gladly paid a full 10 mana to draw the old god I needed. Given the potential of this card I'm happy with it not changing the cost as then you could get a 1 cost Malygos and that's terrifying. I will give this card a tone of testing but another thing I like with it is how it's really simple on the surface but insanely complex when you think about it. Keeping the card as simple as possible helps with that.

Cruel Healing Potion: This is my go at making a bigger Versatile Potion. I Figured simply upscaling the potion would be a rather boring approach and thus I ended up with this. Glad you like it!

Fleshmelted Abomination: "We've talked about that mechanic a lot" Have we? Or maybe you mean the fourm in general but I haven't come across anything similar so if you have feel free to link me to it so I can have an eyeball :P Your version of the card has essentially the opposite undying effect to mine. Mine doesn't die to damage so you can heal or Leon it, yours doesn't die to cards like Shadow Word: Death but damage kills it normally. That wont work as I made him with Leon and healing Synergy in mind. Though that does make me think the effect is unclear to you due to the wording?

Tampered Faceless: I agree. Elixir of God's is enough to push C'Thun alchemist so I probably don't need something as strong as this on top. I'll likely scrap him and either think of a new C'thun card or solely have Elixir of Gods for my C'thun synergy. I didn't like his flavor much anyway :P

Elixir of Gods: I was doing more thinking on this and decided I'm definitely gonna make it prevent the minion from attacking heros permanently. I didn't want to go with the typical "If your C'thun has at least 10 Attack" thing as I wanted this to push making a crazy C'thun by running as much C'thun stuff as possible. Often the best C'thun decks only ran enough to get to 10 for Twin Emperor Vek'lor and I wanted to avoid that with this. Even with changing it to prevent attacking heros this can still make some really giant minions, and it's hard to gauge how strong that will be. It might turn out that it's bad as its a giant buff that only really gets a single trade in before your minion get's Hex'd or Death'd for a measly 3 mana. It might also turn out that it just murders the meta (though BGH will stop this from getting too out of control). I'll try it with "It can't attack heros." and see how strong it feels. I really like the art you used for your card so if possible would you be able to post it for me please :P

 Thanks for your feedback :D

Ok, I probably won't make it this time. But I'm finishing anyway, and at least I won't have any challenges when I do so he's LoE and WotOG.

@The_Odinson

I see your point a lot better now about aoe costing 2 more for an extra damage as there are a lot of examples that follow that. Given the gaps where we don't have examples to go off of it's hard to tell how blizzard does it so it's possible they do it with 1 for 2 which would make Bottled Void way above that. I think it'll be fine still though given aggro and tempo based decks tend not to use big aoes as they can usually deal with minions with favorable trading and smaller spells. The decks that would run Bottled Void would be control and they don't use a lot of minions so Twisting Nether is arguably a better option if it was available. I'll still do lots of testing on this one as I'm less sure on how strong it actually is now haha.

Given Fleshmelted Abomination was really unclear to you I shall think of a way to reword him. I was afraid of this as I kinda used more yugioh style wording here as hearthstone had nothing similar.

Thank you heaps for the images. They are all really cool and I can see myself using pretty much all of them :D

EDIT: I'll review your cards tomorrow as I have to go for the night now.