It's time to bring back Design Duels. For those who have not seen any of the previous threads, these Design Duels are always a 1v1 design competition between two anonymous players. The two competitors don't even know each other. For those who like to compete in one of these, simply send me a PM and I will set you up for a match. Lately I have been trying to do 2 duels at the same time, one New Comer Design Duel (for those who have not done a design duel before) and a Veteran Design Duel. Anyone entering duels for the first time is automatically a New Comer, but once you've completed your first New Comer match you're bumped into veteran status. If you are interested in joining a duel, just send me a PM and I will add you to the queue. Now for Veteran Design Duel #6:
Prompt: Design a set of 3 classic set secrets for shaman.
Note: they have to be from the classic set. IE nothing to do with C'Thun (WotOG) or Mech synergy (GvG) or the Joust mechanic (TGT) or dragon synergy (BRM) or discover (LoE) etc.
Entry #1: LorisACM Entry #2: SDhn2a (winner)
1) 2)
1) 2)
1) 2)
As always vote above and comment below! I personally would like to hear comments on the prompt for this one. I tried to make it challenging by being somewhat more restrictive this time, and would like a comment or two on that if anyone would be so kind.
Okay, first of all, love the prompt. The only thing I would change would be to have made it 4 Secrets rather than 3. In the Classic set, Mage had 6 Secrets, Hunter had 6 Secrets, and Paladin had 4. In my opinion, 4 is about the minimum number of Secrets a class could have. This worked out well enough, though, and in general I've been a fan of your multi-card prompts. They work much better in a more intimate format like this than they seem to end up working in the WCDC whenever we try it. XP
Onto the entries, I like the entry 1 was most bold and risky and decided to add that Overload cost as a way to make the Shaman Secret cost distinctive, like all of the current Secret classes have different Secret costs. However, as I remember from doing similar with my Agent class for the second Class Design Competition, the trade-off with something like that is that your cards end up wordier by default, which is even more pronounced on Secrets because they're a card type that already necessitates wordiness. As for the Secrets themselves, Spawning Totems and Hot Experiments are both reasonably balanced, but Elemental Evaluations is horridly underpowered. Adding a random elemental lord to your hand could be, I don't know, like a 1-cost spell with maybe 1 overload and that'd be about balanced. Having it cost (3) and 1 overload and also be delayed a turn is woefully bad.
The second entry went with simple 2-cost Secrets, matching the Hunter, and... I honestly have no gripes about any of it. Thematically and mechanically, it's all solid, well-balanced, and believable. And I really love when cards refer back to oft-forgotten past cards, so the reference to Ancestral Healing is great, and I think it's used in a really unique and interesting way that I don't think we've seen in the game and that I'm not seeing anything similarly innovative from in the first entry.
I really want to give props to Entry 1 for trying something riskier with the cost, but I just don't think it paid off well enough in the end. I'm giving this one to Entry 2.
To start, cool concept. Bit difficult on how to decide where to go with these. Each player took what appears to be a fairly different approach even if there were some similar results.
Entry 1 is a bit odd because the third card doesn't have all the information. Spawning Totems seems pretty strong. We all know a full set of totems is good, and getting them with actual stats is crazy. I mean this is 16 stat points for 4 total mana investment, that is a high high return, maybe too high. Hot Experiments on the other hand is maybe a bit weak when compared to Snipe, but considering how many more minions are killed by 6 damage than 4, how commonly Shaman can have spell power as opposed to Hunter, and how relevant Silence is this card seems super strong to me. Then we have Elemental Evaluations which we need more info on. Now, Ragnaros the Firelord, Al'Akir the Windlord, and Neptulon are all elemental lords, the game doesn't really point all that out to us too specifically. Also, turn based triggers on Secrets didn't start til TGT, so this card shouldn't even be in Classic.
Entry 2 takes a much less unique approach but with slightly better results. Cleanse Spirit is an interesting take on Spellbender. It has more upside when targeting your minions, and more downside when you read it properly and abuse the targeting. Not a bad card, seems like a reasonable design. Elemental Retort actually seems like it might be weak. It does always trigger, and for 2 mana its a decent effect, but there are major issues with how this functions with minions that trade when attacking. Again, not a bad card, not a great card. Totemic Salvage is very close to Spawning Totems, but it has a slightly more interesting trigger, and the flat totems, while good, are a bit easier to clear and do a bit less than the buffed versions. That said, this does generate 8 stat points for 2 mana, probably still a touch on the strong side.
I like the Overload and higher overall mana and therefore potential power of Entry 1, but I think his Secrets were most toward over powered and the clarity issue on the final secret and its non-Classic trigger put Entry 2 in the lead for me. On the whole I think its cool to see the design tackled and both entrants had great concepts and decent execution.
Okay, first of all, love the prompt. The only thing I would change would be to have made it 4 Secrets rather than 3. In the Classic set, Mage had 6 Secrets, Hunter had 6 Secrets, and Paladin had 4. In my opinion, 4 is about the minimum number of Secrets a class could have. This worked out well enough, though, and in general I've been a fan of your multi-card prompts. They work much better in a more intimate format like this than they seem to end up working in the WCDC whenever we try it. XP
Onto the entries, I like the entry 1 was most bold and risky and decided to add that Overload cost as a way to make the Shaman Secret cost distinctive, like all of the current Secret classes have different Secret costs. However, as I remember from doing similar with my Agent class for the second Class Design Competition, the trade-off with something like that is that your cards end up wordier by default, which is even more pronounced on Secrets because they're a card type that already necessitates wordiness. As for the Secrets themselves, Spawning Totems and Hot Experiments are both reasonably balanced, but Elemental Evaluations is horridly underpowered. Adding a random elemental lord to your hand could be, I don't know, like a 1-cost spell with maybe 1 overload and that'd be about balanced. Having it cost (3) and 1 overload and also be delayed a turn is woefully bad.
The second entry went with simple 2-cost Secrets, matching the Hunter, and... I honestly have no gripes about any of it. Thematically and mechanically, it's all solid, well-balanced, and believable. And I really love when cards refer back to oft-forgotten past cards, so the reference to Ancestral Healing is great, and I think it's used in a really unique and interesting way that I don't think we've seen in the game and that I'm not seeing anything similarly innovative from in the first entry.
I really want to give props to Entry 1 for trying something riskier with the cost, but I just don't think it paid off well enough in the end. I'm giving this one to Entry 2.
I wanted to say something about the specific number of secrets as well, but I didn't feel like digging into exactly how many each class had haha. Also, I personally am not sure I think all of these are balanced, but to each their own.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
I don't really like Entry 1. Hot Experiments is worded weirdly for a secret, but I think it has to be for it to fit in 4 lines, so I'll forgive it. Elemental Evaluations is also weird because 'Elemental Lord' isn't a term in the game and unless you know a bit of WoW lore you won't even know what it means (how is a newbie who's never played WoW gonna know that Neptulon is a Elemental Lord? The other two are kinda more obvious because they have '[element]lord' in their names, but still). It also feels like it could just have been a spell.
The second ones aren't quite as interesting, but they feel like they could be in the game. The first card should probably have 'instead' put after 'Ancestral Healing' and not before. But that's my only gripe about them. So Until someone changes my mind, I'm voting #2.
It's also funny how both entries have a card that summons all basic totems.
Ha, I just realized the thread was titled incorrectly (so I fixed it). Also, thank you for the feedback on my prompt. I usually try to keep the entries to a net of 3 or less, but it makes sense trying to keep it in line with what Blizzard has already done, so I may make things more difficult for Veterans in that regard.
I really like both of these! But as everyone else has summed it up, I would say #2 was a much cleaner version, although I loved that #1 incorporated the Overload mechanic, which I was hoping to see. Then it boiled down to what each secret did, and in my opinion, 2 seems much easier to handle in a deck and use quickly and efficiently.
Today in my free brawl pack I got Barongeddon, then I had a cup of fresh green tea. As a result of that, I think Priest is OP because my keyboard is not a mechanical one. I hope Blizzard will address this issue.
It's time to bring back Design Duels. For those who have not seen any of the previous threads, these Design Duels are always a 1v1 design competition between two anonymous players. The two competitors don't even know each other. For those who like to compete in one of these, simply send me a PM and I will set you up for a match. Lately I have been trying to do 2 duels at the same time, one New Comer Design Duel (for those who have not done a design duel before) and a Veteran Design Duel. Anyone entering duels for the first time is automatically a New Comer, but once you've completed your first New Comer match you're bumped into veteran status. If you are interested in joining a duel, just send me a PM and I will add you to the queue. Now for Veteran Design Duel #6:
Prompt: Design a set of 3 classic set secrets for shaman.
Note: they have to be from the classic set. IE nothing to do with C'Thun (WotOG) or Mech synergy (GvG) or the Joust mechanic (TGT) or dragon synergy (BRM) or discover (LoE) etc.
Entry #1: LorisACM Entry #2: SDhn2a (winner)
1) 2)
1) 2)
1) 2)
As always vote above and comment below! I personally would like to hear comments on the prompt for this one. I tried to make it challenging by being somewhat more restrictive this time, and would like a comment or two on that if anyone would be so kind.
Congratulations to our winner, SDhn2a!
RedneckBudha
Okay, first of all, love the prompt. The only thing I would change would be to have made it 4 Secrets rather than 3. In the Classic set, Mage had 6 Secrets, Hunter had 6 Secrets, and Paladin had 4. In my opinion, 4 is about the minimum number of Secrets a class could have. This worked out well enough, though, and in general I've been a fan of your multi-card prompts. They work much better in a more intimate format like this than they seem to end up working in the WCDC whenever we try it. XP
Onto the entries, I like the entry 1 was most bold and risky and decided to add that Overload cost as a way to make the Shaman Secret cost distinctive, like all of the current Secret classes have different Secret costs. However, as I remember from doing similar with my Agent class for the second Class Design Competition, the trade-off with something like that is that your cards end up wordier by default, which is even more pronounced on Secrets because they're a card type that already necessitates wordiness. As for the Secrets themselves, Spawning Totems and Hot Experiments are both reasonably balanced, but Elemental Evaluations is horridly underpowered. Adding a random elemental lord to your hand could be, I don't know, like a 1-cost spell with maybe 1 overload and that'd be about balanced. Having it cost (3) and 1 overload and also be delayed a turn is woefully bad.
The second entry went with simple 2-cost Secrets, matching the Hunter, and... I honestly have no gripes about any of it. Thematically and mechanically, it's all solid, well-balanced, and believable. And I really love when cards refer back to oft-forgotten past cards, so the reference to Ancestral Healing is great, and I think it's used in a really unique and interesting way that I don't think we've seen in the game and that I'm not seeing anything similarly innovative from in the first entry.
I really want to give props to Entry 1 for trying something riskier with the cost, but I just don't think it paid off well enough in the end. I'm giving this one to Entry 2.
To start, cool concept. Bit difficult on how to decide where to go with these. Each player took what appears to be a fairly different approach even if there were some similar results.
Entry 1 is a bit odd because the third card doesn't have all the information. Spawning Totems seems pretty strong. We all know a full set of totems is good, and getting them with actual stats is crazy. I mean this is 16 stat points for 4 total mana investment, that is a high high return, maybe too high. Hot Experiments on the other hand is maybe a bit weak when compared to Snipe, but considering how many more minions are killed by 6 damage than 4, how commonly Shaman can have spell power as opposed to Hunter, and how relevant Silence is this card seems super strong to me. Then we have Elemental Evaluations which we need more info on. Now, Ragnaros the Firelord, Al'Akir the Windlord, and Neptulon are all elemental lords, the game doesn't really point all that out to us too specifically. Also, turn based triggers on Secrets didn't start til TGT, so this card shouldn't even be in Classic.
Entry 2 takes a much less unique approach but with slightly better results. Cleanse Spirit is an interesting take on Spellbender. It has more upside when targeting your minions, and more downside when you read it properly and abuse the targeting. Not a bad card, seems like a reasonable design. Elemental Retort actually seems like it might be weak. It does always trigger, and for 2 mana its a decent effect, but there are major issues with how this functions with minions that trade when attacking. Again, not a bad card, not a great card. Totemic Salvage is very close to Spawning Totems, but it has a slightly more interesting trigger, and the flat totems, while good, are a bit easier to clear and do a bit less than the buffed versions. That said, this does generate 8 stat points for 2 mana, probably still a touch on the strong side.
I like the Overload and higher overall mana and therefore potential power of Entry 1, but I think his Secrets were most toward over powered and the clarity issue on the final secret and its non-Classic trigger put Entry 2 in the lead for me. On the whole I think its cool to see the design tackled and both entrants had great concepts and decent execution.
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
I don't really like Entry 1. Hot Experiments is worded weirdly for a secret, but I think it has to be for it to fit in 4 lines, so I'll forgive it. Elemental Evaluations is also weird because 'Elemental Lord' isn't a term in the game and unless you know a bit of WoW lore you won't even know what it means (how is a newbie who's never played WoW gonna know that Neptulon is a Elemental Lord? The other two are kinda more obvious because they have '[element]lord' in their names, but still). It also feels like it could just have been a spell.
The second ones aren't quite as interesting, but they feel like they could be in the game. The first card should probably have 'instead' put after 'Ancestral Healing' and not before. But that's my only gripe about them. So Until someone changes my mind, I'm voting #2.
It's also funny how both entries have a card that summons all basic totems.
Why Rogue is my favourite class:
My submission for this week's card design competition.
Ha, I just realized the thread was titled incorrectly (so I fixed it). Also, thank you for the feedback on my prompt. I usually try to keep the entries to a net of 3 or less, but it makes sense trying to keep it in line with what Blizzard has already done, so I may make things more difficult for Veterans in that regard.
RedneckBudha
I really like both of these! But as everyone else has summed it up, I would say #2 was a much cleaner version, although I loved that #1 incorporated the Overload mechanic, which I was hoping to see. Then it boiled down to what each secret did, and in my opinion, 2 seems much easier to handle in a deck and use quickly and efficiently.
Super close, but i'll choose #2.
RedneckBudha
1 Immediately loses for the awkward positioning of the keywords.
Make the Card: The biggest thread on the site!
My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Congratulations to our winner, SDhn2a!
RedneckBudha
Noice!
#gNOmeferatu
GG. :D