Hearthpwn

Quote from The_Odinson >>

Quote from maxlot >>

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Quote from maxlot >>

Right, I've gotten a little feedback and given my hero some thought, so before I submit I'd like to quickly present my hero over here again.

To reiterate, the class uses rarity to its advantage, allowing rarity to count as something like a second tribe, rather than the interestingness of the minion. This allows more interesting gameplay for new players and also has a Peasant King deck that allows new players to get into control without needing epic and legendary rated minions. In addition, it can also function as a regular control and aggro deck, and allows gimmicky epic and legendary decks to be made, though they intentionally won't be at the top of the tier list.

Now, onto the cards.

Squad Leader - Removed Taunt, Increased health to 2.
I realised this card needed a heavy buff during it's creation, but I showed it off as it was regardless. With an emphasis on the minions survivabilty and with little attack, this minion can reliably get out a couple of 1/1's on turn 4 as well as becoming a 2/5. This requires investment from the hero power, which against aggro decks, the card that this is designed to face, allows the card to be balanced. Meanwhile, this thing does little against control due to the militiamen being really small, and with promote inheritly not working on legendaries, getting a maximum of 6 1/1's and a 4/7 with many uses of the hero power won't bother control too much. And the turn after it's put down, you can get off a personal trainer or just another hero power as well as a 2-drop, which will allow stabilisation, especially since it would be difficult for an aggro deck to kill the 2/5.

Personal Trainer - This card has not been changed, I'm happy with how it is.
It allows a minion to become just slightly more "Skilled" (That's in terms of flavour, not power) than him by making it an epic minion with +2/+2 more than before, in exchange he'll be heavily behind on stats and the effect quickly deteriorates on higher rarity cards. This makes it a good general card and a good card for common decks, as well as a good card for epic decks because it allows a non-epic to go up to epic and trigger the effect of things like Spear of Champions. Speaking of that...

Spear of Champions - Reworked stats from 6 mana 3/3 to 6 mana 5/2, no longer triggers on weapons, triggers without killing minions.
The previous spear triggered off of itself, which I wanted because I wanted to make cards which could promote weapons, however I might have to limit that to some pirate in a different expansion in future or something, because that made this thing one of the hardest things to balance the stats of, especially with a minion killing reliance. Too much attack, and the durability and damage buff makes it a stronger Reaper by quite a bit. Too little attack, you can't trigger the effect, like, ever. Plus high durability makes the self buffing effect close to being overpowered and too little means the effect will only trigger once or twice, and the card should ideally be played FOR the buff.

And so, I've reworked the effect. Now it's a slightly costier Reaper that will buff two of your epics over two turns. In comparison to Sword of Justice, the card is faster as the effect is immediate and isn't PURELY for the buffs, so it might actually be played. It's also more flavourful, making your epics become "Champions" (Legendaries) was the entire premise of the card in terms of flavour, making itself a legendary makes little sense. Is it good, is it bad? I'd like feedback on this card more than the others really.

 

 The only problem is, again, example cards can't summon any exclusive tokens (in yhis case, the two 1/1 militiamen), so you should consider showing another card instead.

 Oh, damn, didn't catch that. I guess I'll go get one of my other cards... How about these?

These cards work with the basic mechanics of the Peasant King. You want to fill your hand and board with peasants and you want your wall of peasants to keep you safe.

Rations allows you to give your peasant swarm a huge buff to their health whilst allowing you to stabilise from your opponents burst. It costs 2 because triggering on only 1 minion isn't brilliant, so you really need 2 or 3 to justify using it. And having it only give health doesn't cause minions to become big and strong, it only helps to keep them from dying. Sure you may have given all of your tiny little Militiamen +0/+3, but 1/4's still don't do anything. Again, your goal is to make a wall of little guys that the opponents little guys will die on, not gain huge early game power to beat up the opponents.

To help refuel your hand while generating a little board prescence, the Lowly Commoner fits the flavour of Peasant King and is fairly strong in terms of value. Basically, in a Militia, you take what you get, be it the tailor, the innkeeper, or some farmer, and you take them to the frontline, because you need to. You use whoever's at hand, you don't get picky. For the actual archetype of Peasant King, it is cheap and sacrifices effect for stats, which is what you prioritise in the early game, against aggro. Meanwhile it helps you swarm minions, which is also part of the archetype, and can potentially fetch bigger minions, like a Faceless Behemoth. Also since it doesn't draw from the deck, it does help considering that this is a late game focused deck. Preventing yourself from fatigueing is very helpful in control. This card does not take cards from outside the reach of the King class.

Shieldwall is a card designed to work with the whole token-control theme as well. It gives everything you have a promotion for all their hard work on the frontline, making them stronger, sturdier, and most importantly, teaches them to co-ordinate, so that they can protect you. Basically, it's Mark of the Lotus with the added effect of taunting them up. This Promotes minions first, THEN adds the taunt effect to all minions promoted. Therefore any minions added between the buff and the taunt being added wouldn't gain the taunt, as well as any legendary minions.

 

 Rations seems fine, Shield Wall seems potentially dangerous but fine, however Lowly Commoner seems very strong. I know it only draws you common minion, but there are plenty of extremely strong common minions in this game, on top of that its a 2/2. Its pretty much crazy value for its cost, even if that value might be high variance, even blizzard hasn't made a 2/2 that draws you a card for 2 yet. I also think a Lowly Peasant that has a better statline than a number of not so lowly non-peasants is rather odd.

I do understand that the mechanic would be weak or broken if it could increase any kind of numerical value, like restored Health or cards drawn. However, it seems unnatural that a keyword must work differently on different types of spells. Moreover, that it only works with spells which deal damage. Sure, the keyword may apply to a spell, but the effect seems limited. Other already existing keywords, like Combo or Choose One, works well independently of the card's text and type.

My initial idea was to make it work on multiple things, but I resorted to spell damage to stop the effect being broken. I think I might just resort to an additional effect of a 1 damage AoE being added onto the card, seems fairly balanced considering the one card that can actually promote spells is a 6 mana 6/5.

Sure, he has excellent combo potential. But with a restricted number of cards; common cards which benefit from being promoted. Most of the time, the effect will be fair. A Health buff is fine, too. (I edited my previous comment, if you want to read it again.)

3/4 it is then.

Quote from maxlot >>

Quote from The_Odinson >>

Ok, I am posting this hear mostly to proof read and finalize it. Anyone feedback is still appreciated, I know I'm doing something many people this is crazy/drastic/extremely difficult to balance, and I believe that is very true myself. I do however, want to take on that challenge, to make a hero power that seems highly abusable, but making it balanced and still fun. Anyway, let's get to the main post, then I have some other cards I could really really use feedback on. 

I am putting the main post into a spoiler, since it was already posted, though with slightly different versions of cards and explanations. I don't want to flood the forum with a repeat post.

WELCOME TO MIRAGE RACEWAY!! WHERE THE SPEED ENTHUSIAST IN ALL OF US CAN GET A FIX! YOU ALL KNOW MOST OF OUR RACERS TODAY BUT WE DO HAVE A FIRST TIME ENTRANT FROM OUR FINAL QUALIFIER, GYRO AND SIRI QUIKREV! TODAY'S RACE SHOULD BE EXCITING!! LADIES AND GENTLEMAN, START YOUR ENGINES!!!

The Racer

 

The Draft mechanic is probably a touch confusing to new players, and its very very likely it shouldn't show up on my hero power and related effects. I do want to push the idea of tempo though and I think the mechanic is extremely vital to that and my vision. For clarification, Draft only effects the cards in your hand and only for the current turn. Its not going to make your deck free and allow you to play your whole deck at any point. Its not going to reduced cards over a period of time, thus it can only be used to gain tempo at that moment. I feel like while the effect is powerful, its properly balanced around its weakness and the cards I plan to create for the class. 

My inspiration was to try to find something that had minor development in WoW but also broad spectrum appeal. Therefore I want with Racing. We don't see tons of it, Shimmering Flats and the Mirage Raceway aren't the same as when I started playing WoW 10 years ago, and its also certainly wasn't the Mario Kart-esque concept chose to create here, but I think we all enjoy a good battle racer. Also I wanted to explore the idea of tempo and comebacks, which led me to the Draft mechanic and some of the other underlying concepts within the class. I hope you find it both interesting and unique and perhaps you can have an open mind about what I plan to do after seeing just these few cards. I am aware of Combo fear and burst potential, and I already have plenty of "safe" but cool options created if I could just get past this round to show you. On to my example cards. 

Our first card is very Basic. But I want to point out some of the design points. This is between Flamestrike and Consecration. Its the sort of card every class has, a basic AoE. However, if you look closely at what the card does you'll notice it is more Flamestrike, no face damage on the opponent and this is intentional. We want to remove our opponents minions, but we don't want to influence the health difference in hopes of maximizing that later off of different cards. So its not simply missing face damage simply to make it different than another classes AoE, it serves a purpose. 

And here we have one of those purposes. Pit Stop is one of our card draw spells but it also highlight our comeback mechanics. This is one of the more basic ideas, and I don't want you to think they will all be about gaining life or drafting, there will be a number of variation of possible effects. I feel like the mana cost and base effect are a bit over priced, while triggering the secondary affect will lead to a decent mana advantage, though you may not be able to maximize the Draft unless you play this later in the game. 

Lastly we have one of our Draft beneficiaries. Drafting is a big deal, and there will be a small group of cards that gain benefits from Drafting them all the way to 0 mana. Now, obviously Draft won't show itself on tons and tons of cards, as it is also tied to our hero power, it will however show up often enough to allow you try to set up powerful dynamic turns, potentially turning what look like lost games into fighting chances. I don't want to over do anything, and there is a large amount of balance to be considered. 

I hope you're not only interested but excited to see what I've got in store. Thank you for any votes.

 Now, I also want to share my current first round draft for my full basic set. I say first round for a reason, rules may shift what I can do, and of course there is always room for more balance. I will hide these in a spoiler, so only people truly interested in them can make the choice to check them out and those that don't really  have time can easily move on.

Last Ditch Effort - I wanted to make a form of removal that also had a drawback and didn't use damage. This class will only have a few damaging spells, and I don't plan on letting any of them go face, so that is why I went with this design. I am worried its still under cost or overly specific, I thought about having it just kill a completely random minion. Thanks for feedback.

Caution - This is one of the first conceptual buff ideas for the class and its meant to really queue into the racing concept. I felt like 2 mana for a symmetric effect might still be too good, but I would love to know what other people think.

Speed Freak - This is just one of our basic minions. Its vanilla, but its a unique stat line. The class itself isn't massively aggressive, but I though a nice basic minion would still help cement the class and its identity.

Clumsy Mechanic - Much like Warlock I want to throw drawbacks on a few of the class cards but give them tempo upside. This is one of those cards that I felt like had enough variance and disadvantage to be good but not over powered.

Start Your Engines! - The second of our group buffs and major theme pushers. Again, we are taking a basic card from another class and changing it to fit our needs. This is something that is almost necessary, as there are only so many ideas. This card is a bit difficult to play and might be overly frustrating as a basic card simply because the Can't Attack Heroes clause does apply to your whole side no matter what, meaning you have to make your attacks correctly.

Fall Back - This is our first major defensive card, and I'm not sure if the cost and effect are correct. I'm fine with it being pushed toward weak though, ever class has good and bad cards and a niche card is completely fine to me.

Tactical Maneuver - This is one of two Basics with the health related text. I am not sure if people feel like that is overly complicated for basic, but there are other cards with a fair amount of text in that range, like Kill Command or wordy cards like Mind Vision and Tracking.

Crowd Favorite - This card might seem somewhat odd in but I felt like it was a great concept card. The Crowd Favorite is a winner, he's tough and he's dangerous, but he's also the one almost all the other racers are looking to knock off. This led me to make a large Taunt minion to embody that. 

Qualifier - This is the card I'm the most concerned with. The effect is highly dynamic and the balance of the cost and effect are something I spent a long time on. I know that the "Reno" effect is on a legendary, and it came out well into the games development but I don't think that should discredit this card or that fact it could be in the basic set. It is a very strong heal, though not massively cost efficient, and it does nothing but heal. Either way, I would really love feedback on this card most of all, as its the one I worry about the most. I could likely come up with so different solutions and potential replacements.

 

 

 

Thanks for any and all replies.

 

 

My previous reply was too lengthy for the forum to handle so I'll just give a run down of my points.

Last Ditch Effort - Interesting, yet should really be random, as a self harming deadly shot, a little too strong otherwise.

Caution - Win more if you don't use in conjunction with Start Your Engines! but doesn't need a redesign because that's a cool combo right there.

Speed Freak - There are no vanilla class cards, you have to give it something, because even with an interesting stat line, it's boring.

Clumsy Mechanic - Can it hit face? No = pretty mediocre. Yes = pretty damn good with an empty board.

Start Your Engines - Draft x3, bunch of minions, Caution, Start Your Engines. Now that's a cool combo. Not quite as cool as Draft x3, Mogor's Champion x2, Faceless Manipulator x2, Start your Engines lethal but pretty cool.

Fall Back - Keep in mind mark of the lotus provides the same amount of stats, sits in a class with lots of token generation and costs 1.  The only reason you'd use this is if you were to put it at the end of a giant draft chain, in which case it's... Alright.

Tactical Manuever - Effect is almost guarenteed in a self-harming control deck, and 5 mana, deal 7, draw is insane.

Crowd Favorite - Wear no glasses and get confused about why the crowd favorite is a man in a rocket powered wheelchair, he ain't winning. Other than that, change the name, that's already taken.

Qualifier - Effect is insane, not necessarily too good, not necessarily too bad, but too insane for a basic. Also, I'm guessing you mustn't play a huge lot of arena.

Hey guys, how's it going, Kripparian here. So, today in arena I drafted 10 Qualifiers and laughed as my opponents will to live drained away.

 

Quote from maxlot >>

 

Quote from The_Odinson >>

Quote from maxlot >>

Quote from Diamon_Boots >>

Quote from maxlot >>

Right, I've gotten a little feedback and given my hero some thought, so before I submit I'd like to quickly present my hero over here again.

To reiterate, the class uses rarity to its advantage, allowing rarity to count as something like a second tribe, rather than the interestingness of the minion. This allows more interesting gameplay for new players and also has a Peasant King deck that allows new players to get into control without needing epic and legendary rated minions. In addition, it can also function as a regular control and aggro deck, and allows gimmicky epic and legendary decks to be made, though they intentionally won't be at the top of the tier list.

Now, onto the cards.

Squad Leader - Removed Taunt, Increased health to 2.
I realised this card needed a heavy buff during it's creation, but I showed it off as it was regardless. With an emphasis on the minions survivabilty and with little attack, this minion can reliably get out a couple of 1/1's on turn 4 as well as becoming a 2/5. This requires investment from the hero power, which against aggro decks, the card that this is designed to face, allows the card to be balanced. Meanwhile, this thing does little against control due to the militiamen being really small, and with promote inheritly not working on legendaries, getting a maximum of 6 1/1's and a 4/7 with many uses of the hero power won't bother control too much. And the turn after it's put down, you can get off a personal trainer or just another hero power as well as a 2-drop, which will allow stabilisation, especially since it would be difficult for an aggro deck to kill the 2/5.

Personal Trainer - This card has not been changed, I'm happy with how it is.
It allows a minion to become just slightly more "Skilled" (That's in terms of flavour, not power) than him by making it an epic minion with +2/+2 more than before, in exchange he'll be heavily behind on stats and the effect quickly deteriorates on higher rarity cards. This makes it a good general card and a good card for common decks, as well as a good card for epic decks because it allows a non-epic to go up to epic and trigger the effect of things like Spear of Champions. Speaking of that...

Spear of Champions - Reworked stats from 6 mana 3/3 to 6 mana 5/2, no longer triggers on weapons, triggers without killing minions.
The previous spear triggered off of itself, which I wanted because I wanted to make cards which could promote weapons, however I might have to limit that to some pirate in a different expansion in future or something, because that made this thing one of the hardest things to balance the stats of, especially with a minion killing reliance. Too much attack, and the durability and damage buff makes it a stronger Reaper by quite a bit. Too little attack, you can't trigger the effect, like, ever. Plus high durability makes the self buffing effect close to being overpowered and too little means the effect will only trigger once or twice, and the card should ideally be played FOR the buff.

And so, I've reworked the effect. Now it's a slightly costier Reaper that will buff two of your epics over two turns. In comparison to Sword of Justice, the card is faster as the effect is immediate and isn't PURELY for the buffs, so it might actually be played. It's also more flavourful, making your epics become "Champions" (Legendaries) was the entire premise of the card in terms of flavour, making itself a legendary makes little sense. Is it good, is it bad? I'd like feedback on this card more than the others really.

 

 The only problem is, again, example cards can't summon any exclusive tokens (in yhis case, the two 1/1 militiamen), so you should consider showing another card instead.

 Oh, damn, didn't catch that. I guess I'll go get one of my other cards... How about these?

These cards work with the basic mechanics of the Peasant King. You want to fill your hand and board with peasants and you want your wall of peasants to keep you safe.

Rations allows you to give your peasant swarm a huge buff to their health whilst allowing you to stabilise from your opponents burst. It costs 2 because triggering on only 1 minion isn't brilliant, so you really need 2 or 3 to justify using it. And having it only give health doesn't cause minions to become big and strong, it only helps to keep them from dying. Sure you may have given all of your tiny little Militiamen +0/+3, but 1/4's still don't do anything. Again, your goal is to make a wall of little guys that the opponents little guys will die on, not gain huge early game power to beat up the opponents.

To help refuel your hand while generating a little board prescence, the Lowly Commoner fits the flavour of Peasant King and is fairly strong in terms of value. Basically, in a Militia, you take what you get, be it the tailor, the innkeeper, or some farmer, and you take them to the frontline, because you need to. You use whoever's at hand, you don't get picky. For the actual archetype of Peasant King, it is cheap and sacrifices effect for stats, which is what you prioritise in the early game, against aggro. Meanwhile it helps you swarm minions, which is also part of the archetype, and can potentially fetch bigger minions, like a Faceless Behemoth. Also since it doesn't draw from the deck, it does help considering that this is a late game focused deck. Preventing yourself from fatigueing is very helpful in control. This card does not take cards from outside the reach of the King class.

Shieldwall is a card designed to work with the whole token-control theme as well. It gives everything you have a promotion for all their hard work on the frontline, making them stronger, sturdier, and most importantly, teaches them to co-ordinate, so that they can protect you. Basically, it's Mark of the Lotus with the added effect of taunting them up. This Promotes minions first, THEN adds the taunt effect to all minions promoted. Therefore any minions added between the buff and the taunt being added wouldn't gain the taunt, as well as any legendary minions.

 

 Rations seems fine, Shield Wall seems potentially dangerous but fine, however Lowly Commoner seems very strong. I know it only draws you common minion, but there are plenty of extremely strong common minions in this game, on top of that its a 2/2. Its pretty much crazy value for its cost, even if that value might be high variance, even blizzard hasn't made a 2/2 that draws you a card for 2 yet. I also think a Lowly Peasant that has a better statline than a number of not so lowly non-peasants is rather odd.

 King's Elekk, Undercity Huckster, Dark Peddler, and the actual cost and stats are rarely accurate to the real thing. Bloodmage Thalnos is a legendary mage who should be pretty big, but he's a 1/1. And Kazakus, who's the leader of the Kabal and actually a big scary dragon, will die to a puddlestomper... Anyway I have decided I may limit it's cost to only give you a cheap card, like "Battlecry: Add a random common minion to your hand that costs (5) or less." Any idea what the max cost should be?

 "This card does not take cards from outside the reach of the King class."

With no bonus to getting commons for its own class, it'll probably rarely ever get any of the King commons as well. I think the limit should be about 3 or 4 mana, usually it'll make something smaller.

Also, that's a Fonzie goblin on a motorcycle, not a grandpa in a wheelchair. I thought that was good art. 

Don't worry, the art's fine, I just wasn't wearing glasses and the images are small. It just looked hilarious when I first saw it is all.

Quote from thepowrofcheese >>

 

Quote from SleepyPanda123 >>

What do you all think of my Incubus class?

INCUBUS

Showcased Cards:

Do you guys this is interesting/ powerful/ balanced enough? I want to establish a sort of sick, twisted, demonic pain/ pleasure theme here.

 

I have come up with a minion that I will likely use for my submission of the Orator class.  Just want some quick feedback before I post it please.

The idea is that the minion has talked to some people and found out some useful information for you.

Quote from Tomerick88 >>

I have come up with a minion that I will likely use for my submission of the Orator class.  Just want some quick feedback before I post it please.

The idea is that the minion has talked to some people and found out some useful information for you.

 

 

Quote from Mewdrops >>

Quote from Tomerick88 >>

I have come up with a minion that I will likely use for my submission of the Orator class.  Just want some quick feedback before I post it please.

The idea is that the minion has talked to some people and found out some useful information for you.

 

 

 I think you might want to nerf the stats at least a tiny bit. (-1 attack or -1 health). A vanilla minion that discovers a card you can't normally put in your deck? Seems good to me. Probably too good.

I also don't really think 'Wise Guy' is a nice card name. What about something that makes the flavour more obvious, like maybe 'Clever Investigator' or something like that? Just a suggestion.