This will sound aggressive, but there is no other way to put this: you are terrible at balancing cards.
Could you at least try and be more constructive with your criticism? Explain to him why the card he has come up with is imbalanced, and how it might be improved.
When you look at this card and compare it to others with similar effects Violet Illusionist which negates the health penalty or Fencing Coach which negates the mana cost (for one use) even Maiden of the Lake which mitigates the mana cost to 1 this card doesn't seem too far fetched. The mana cost is in line with the rest if you take into account it is a class card with a drawback. It must be the only friendly minion on the board. This means obviously you can't have any other 1 drops such as the ubiquitous Flame Imp or oft seen Voidwalker
Personally Im not sure about the balance, but it is at least worth discussing with an open mind and a civil tongue. There are certainly pros and cons to this card, but I think the biggest thing in its favor right now is probably the card art, really like the design there.
Silvermoon: thank you. I thought the penalty of only having ONE minion on the board, specially at turn 2 or 3, was enough. Maybe I was wrong. Is it still too OP? What could I do to balance a little? Make it a 0/2?
This will sound aggressive, but there is no other way to put this: you are terrible at balancing cards.
Could you at least try and be more constructive with your criticism? Explain to him why the card he has come up with is imbalanced, and how it might be improved.
When you look at this card and compare it to others with similar effects Violet Illusionist which negates the health penalty or Fencing Coach which negates the mana cost (for one use) even Maiden of the Lake which mitigates the mana cost to 1 this card doesn't seem too far fetched. The mana cost is in line with the rest if you take into account it is a class card with a drawback. It must be the only friendly minion on the board. This means obviously you can't have any other 1 drops such as the ubiquitous Flame Imp or oft seen Voidwalker
Personally Im not sure about the balance, but it is at least worth discussing with an open mind and a civil tongue. There are certainly pros and cons to this card, but I think the biggest thing in its favor right now is probably the card art, really like the design there.
Look, I wasn't being a complete douchebag hahaha... That has to be one of the most unbalanced cards I've seen around here for a while. And given how he responded after your comment goes to show that he didn't even started to grasp how OP the card is. I don't mean this to belittle him, no one knows everything, I said what I did because clearly he doesn't even begin to understand how insanely powerful that card is.
Apache, look. Warlock's hero power is the best one in the game. Drawing a card is a VERY powerful effect, that goes for any card game, keep this in mind, draw effects are strong. That is why it has the 2 health penalty. Consider that the improved version of life tap, given by the 6 mana TGT legendary whose name I forgot for some reason, only adds the benefit of cutting off the health penalty. So for 6 mana, you get a permanent buff, but you still have to pay mana for it. This should start to give you an idea why you went so overboard with that card. In summation, that effect does not fit a card this cheap, not even if it was a 0/1, especially with such an easy to fulfil requirement.
specially with such an easy to fulfil requirement.
I agree it's easy to fulfill. Is it easy to maintain? Having no other cards (including a copy of that same minion)? Only having 1/2 on the board?
Yes, certainly. Control warlock decks have access to removals in the form of spells, it is not unthinkable to immagine you'd be able to get some juicy value out of this enough times it'd be worth the slot in your deck. Especially against slower decks, given how your opponent might not develop a minion by turn 2 or even 3. And I'd say that even if there was no control warlock on the meta, which there is, in the form of renolock and in a lesser relevance atm Giants warlock. This is the kind of card that is plain dangerous to put out there, simply because when someone makes it broken, it polarizes the game too much. Just too much goodness in a little cute package :)
You could also argue against it looking at the pros and cons. Best case scenario you draw 2-3 cards for free, not exactly free as you paid 2 for the body, but it is a neglectable cost given the benefit... maybe you should factor in not being able to play a minion until you knew your opponent would have means to kill your guy next turn, but it still isn't enough drawback. Worst case scenario you have a 2 drop with a reasonable body that will have to be removed by your opponent, in which case it slows him down a bit, and you get a free tap the turn you play it... so like a 2 mana 1/2 that draws a card, and has to be removed. Novice Engineer used to be 1/2, everyone used it back then.
I think you overreact, because this is at best a pre-nerf Novice Engineer with a restriction that is only realistic in a spell-heavy warlock deck, so even renolock won't be able to use this effectively and often has better cards to play anyway. its useless in Zoo for sure and Warlock has not enough good spells to go spell-heavy with some kind of combo as a finisher.
It is a better pre-nerf novice at worst, not at best. Better because your opponent HAS to remove it ASAP, otherwise it becomes even better. That might force some fast card out of his hand, or simply make him not hit your face. Either way, it's TONS of profit at worst case.
As I said above, at best this is a 2 mana 1/2 that nets you 2-3 free cards. As a control deck you don't care about the lack of board presence, you're gaining card advantage for nothing and can still cast spells with your free mana. Not to mention that you could play a minion after you get your free tap, and trade it next turn, allowing you to free tap again that turn. You're just not looking at the big picture here, imo. This would absolutely go into renolock.
I think you overreact, because this is at best a pre-nerf Novice Engineer with a restriction that is only realistic in a spell-heavy warlock deck, so even renolock won't be able to use this effectively and often has better cards to play anyway. its useless in Zoo for sure and Warlock has not enough good spells to go spell-heavy with some kind of combo as a finisher.
It is a better pre-nerf novice at worst, not at best. Better because your opponent HAS to remove it ASAP, otherwise it becomes even better. That might force some fast card out of his hand, or simply make him not hit your face. Either way, it's TONS of profit at worst case.
As I said above, at best this is a 2 mana 1/2 that nets you 2-3 free cards. As a control deck you don't care about the lack of board presence, you're gaining card advantage for nothing and can still cast spells with your free mana. Not to mention that you could play a minion after you get your free tap, and trade it next turn, allowing you to free tap again that turn. You're just not looking at the big picture here, imo. This would absolutely go into renolock.
This dies instantly on your opponents turn and even if not, what are you doing with the mana you gained as a Reno or spell-heavy Warlock? Its not like you can follow it up with a big tempo-turn and the effect becomes nearly irrelevant in the lategame. Also what are you replacing this card with? Why not play Loot Hoarder or Novice Engineer instead, which Warlock never run anyway. If you play a minion after that, then you are obviously playing a minion-heavy deck and wasted early tempo to get a free lifetap, which is just bad.
Not really.
You play this on turn two and get a free life tap. Then, you can tap again on turn 3 if it lives, then play a minion afterwards. Basically, it's a better Novice Engineer which has a chance to get you even more draws. It can even be run in more aggressive decks, because you can tap before you play minions.
I think you overreact, because this is at best a pre-nerf Novice Engineer with a restriction that is only realistic in a spell-heavy warlock deck, so even renolock won't be able to use this effectively and often has better cards to play anyway. its useless in Zoo for sure and Warlock has not enough good spells to go spell-heavy with some kind of combo as a finisher.
It is a better pre-nerf novice at worst, not at best. Better because your opponent HAS to remove it ASAP, otherwise it becomes even better. That might force some fast card out of his hand, or simply make him not hit your face. Either way, it's TONS of profit at worst case.
As I said above, at best this is a 2 mana 1/2 that nets you 2-3 free cards. As a control deck you don't care about the lack of board presence, you're gaining card advantage for nothing and can still cast spells with your free mana. Not to mention that you could play a minion after you get your free tap, and trade it next turn, allowing you to free tap again that turn. You're just not looking at the big picture here, imo. This would absolutely go into renolock.
This dies instantly on your opponents turn and even if not, what are you doing with the mana you gained as a Reno or spell-heavy Warlock? Its not like you can follow it up with a big tempo-turn and the effect becomes nearly irrelevant in the lategame. Also what are you replacing this card with? Why not play Loot Hoarder or Novice Engineer instead, which Warlock never run anyway. If you play a minion after that, then you are obviously playing a minion-heavy deck and wasted early tempo to get a free lifetap, which is just bad.
Not really.
You play this on turn two and get a free life tap. Then, you can tap again on turn 3 if it lives, then play a minion afterwards. Basically, it's a better Novice Engineer which has a chance to get you even more draws. It can even be run in more aggressive decks, because you can tap before you play minions.
Not absolutely bonkers, but still pretty good.
To that I add that we're are not even factoring in the minor but still existent value of not losing life in the process of tapping.
I think you overreact, because this is at best a pre-nerf Novice Engineer with a restriction that is only realistic in a spell-heavy warlock deck, so even renolock won't be able to use this effectively and often has better cards to play anyway. its useless in Zoo for sure and Warlock has not enough good spells to go spell-heavy with some kind of combo as a finisher.
It is a better pre-nerf novice at worst, not at best. Better because your opponent HAS to remove it ASAP, otherwise it becomes even better. That might force some fast card out of his hand, or simply make him not hit your face. Either way, it's TONS of profit at worst case.
As I said above, at best this is a 2 mana 1/2 that nets you 2-3 free cards. As a control deck you don't care about the lack of board presence, you're gaining card advantage for nothing and can still cast spells with your free mana. Not to mention that you could play a minion after you get your free tap, and trade it next turn, allowing you to free tap again that turn. You're just not looking at the big picture here, imo. This would absolutely go into renolock.
This dies instantly on your opponents turn and even if not, what are you doing with the mana you gained as a Reno or spell-heavy Warlock? Its not like you can follow it up with a big tempo-turn and the effect becomes nearly irrelevant in the lategame. Also what are you replacing this card with? Why not play Loot Hoarder or Novice Engineer instead, which Warlock never run anyway. If you play a minion after that, then you are obviously playing a minion-heavy deck and wasted early tempo to get a free lifetap, which is just bad.
Not really.
You play this on turn two and get a free life tap. Then, you can tap again on turn 3 if it lives, then play a minion afterwards. Basically, it's a better Novice Engineer which has a chance to get you even more draws. It can even be run in more aggressive decks, because you can tap before you play minions.
Not absolutely bonkers, but still pretty good.
But why would you waste a deck-slot for a 2mana 1/2 Inspire: Restore 2 Health to your Hero? You can't use that early mana for much else anyway and no aggressive deck would care about saving some Health but losing the earlygame in the prozess. It is almost always better to play Loot Hoarder or Novice Engineer instead and no Warlock-deck ever needed additional card draw.
Now you're just trolling. You just reduced a card that is a better version of a pre-nerf card, let me repeat this A BETTER VERSION of a PRE-NERF CARD, to inspire: restore 2 health. At this point you just want me to agree with you no matter how. Sorry mate, I'm done with this conversation.
I think you overreact, because this is at best a pre-nerf Novice Engineer with a restriction that is only realistic in a spell-heavy warlock deck, so even renolock won't be able to use this effectively and often has better cards to play anyway. its useless in Zoo for sure and Warlock has not enough good spells to go spell-heavy with some kind of combo as a finisher.
It is a better pre-nerf novice at worst, not at best. Better because your opponent HAS to remove it ASAP, otherwise it becomes even better. That might force some fast card out of his hand, or simply make him not hit your face. Either way, it's TONS of profit at worst case.
As I said above, at best this is a 2 mana 1/2 that nets you 2-3 free cards. As a control deck you don't care about the lack of board presence, you're gaining card advantage for nothing and can still cast spells with your free mana. Not to mention that you could play a minion after you get your free tap, and trade it next turn, allowing you to free tap again that turn. You're just not looking at the big picture here, imo. This would absolutely go into renolock.
This dies instantly on your opponents turn and even if not, what are you doing with the mana you gained as a Reno or spell-heavy Warlock? Its not like you can follow it up with a big tempo-turn and the effect becomes nearly irrelevant in the lategame. Also what are you replacing this card with? Why not play Loot Hoarder or Novice Engineer instead, which Warlock never run anyway. If you play a minion after that, then you are obviously playing a minion-heavy deck and wasted early tempo to get a free lifetap, which is just bad.
Not really.
You play this on turn two and get a free life tap. Then, you can tap again on turn 3 if it lives, then play a minion afterwards. Basically, it's a better Novice Engineer which has a chance to get you even more draws. It can even be run in more aggressive decks, because you can tap before you play minions.
Not absolutely bonkers, but still pretty good.
But why would you waste a deck-slot for a 2mana 1/2 Inspire: Restore 2 Health to your Hero? You can't use that early mana for much else anyway and no aggressive deck would care about saving some Health but losing the earlygame in the prozess. It is almost always better to play Loot Hoarder or Novice Engineer instead and no Warlock-deck ever needed additional card draw.
Now you're just trolling. You just reduced a card that is a better version of a pre-nerf card, let me repeat this A BETTER VERSION of a PRE-NERF CARD, to inspire: restore 2 health. At this point you just want me to agree with you no matter how. Sorry mate, I'm done with this conversation.
"I don't have any arguments to profe him wrong, now I pretent he is trolling and leave the conversation, because that makes me look smart."
You are arguing that a card with an effect that's even more powerful than another card (Pre-nerf Novice Engineer), which was deemed and agreed to be overpowered, fine.
It's like saying Small-Time Buccaneeris overpowered, but think a 0 Mana Equivalent is fine and fair.
I personally like the card, and think its pretty balanced. It's almost impossible to have it be on the field by itself for more than one turn, right? So, most likely you're only going to be able to exploit this ability once. If it's turn two, and your opponent missed a one drop, then yeah, your opponent is gonna have a bad time, but even then its not bad because at most you are going to get one more draw out of it, and then theyll probably get to trade for free. The fact that it has to be the only friendly minion on board and pretty poor stats make up for it. It's also worse than novice engineer in a sense (in a sense!) that you could play novice engineer on turn four and then tap to get a second card where that isn't an option for this card.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
JMAP94. The best way to love the artist is to love the art.
On turn 2, this is better than Novice Engineer. When you're topdecking... Not so much. More or less a 1/2 restore 2 health to your hero, but only if you don't have a board.
Besides, Warlock rarely needs the additional draw...
Today in my free brawl pack I got Barongeddon, then I had a cup of fresh green tea. As a result of that, I think Priest is OP because my keyboard is not a mechanical one. I hope Blizzard will address this issue.
Wow. I did not think this card would be so controversial. A few remarks:
1- I do not consider myself an expert on Hearthstone, I'm an average/mediocre player. If you guys say the card is unbalanced or OP or weak, I'll believe you - and I have no reason to take it personally or get offended. Hearthstone is not a pivotal piece of my life, and I don't care about being wrong. With that being said...
2- I thought about this card as a way to speed up Warlock initial hand, but giving a drawback of not having anything on the board. Maybe because I have a variant of Zoo, I thought that might be balanced - I could be wrong. Maybe the life stats are too similar to pre nerf Novice Engineer and that threw people off - I had just thought that a 1/1 could have been too unstable to keep on the board alone.
3- You gotta take into consideration this card would have an effect on the opponent's priority to remove it (and with no Taunts around, it would not be too difficult). It's not like playing a Leper Gnome...
4- Blizzard usually balances cards like this with other cards. Maybe if every class got an Epic minion that was similarly OP towards their Hero Power mechanic...
It's perfectly well balanced because it is a warlock card.
I first thought it was very strong because the old Novice Engineer came to mind.
But it doesn't really make sense to run cycle in warlock since they get it at a discount.
This effect is the same as running post-nerf Novice Engineer in paladin which is the same as just hero powering.
Are you seriously comparing clicking a button, which doesn't spend any cards, to a card that has the same effect/mana cost of a button? REALLY? That fact alone makes it clear you're not really paying attention to the situation. You're dismissing the deck slot you had to spend, you're dismissing the fact you'll cycle a card. It's a world of a difference in terms of balance.
It doesn't make sense to run cycle cards in warlock, agreed. Except that this is AT WORST an OP pre-nerf cycle alone. This is a card that DEMANDS your opponent to remove it, how hard can it be to grasp this? You know when your opponent plays brann, thaurissan or fendral? You know that bitter feeling in your mouth when you have no fast cards available to remove them, knowing that you're about to get buried in value? Exactly. That's why you can't have too many of these "have to remove" cards. 2 mana, random body, draw 2 cards, can you even fathom how insane this is? If it lives only one single little turn, you get to draw the second card and potentially shadow bolt the minion the guy played to contest your dude. How is this not utterly broken?
On turn 2, this is better than Novice Engineer. When you're topdecking... Not so much. More or less a 1/2 restore 2 health to your hero, but only if you don't have a board.
Besides, Warlock rarely needs the additional draw...
It's not additional draw. God, it's not additional draw. It is modifying your hero power, not adding novice to your deck. The only reason novice was even cited is to show that IN THE WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO, it is a BETTER novice.
It's perfectly well balanced because it is a warlock card.
I first thought it was very strong because the old Novice Engineer came to mind.
But it doesn't really make sense to run cycle in warlock since they get it at a discount.
This effect is the same as running post-nerf Novice Engineer in paladin which is the same as just hero powering.
Are you seriously comparing clicking a button, which doesn't spend any cards, to a card that has the same effect/mana cost of a button? REALLY? That fact alone makes it clear you're not really paying attention to the situation. You're dismissing the deck slot you had to spend, you're dismissing the fact you'll cycle a card. It's a world of a difference in terms of balance.
It doesn't make sense to run cycle cards in warlock, agreed. Except that this is AT WORST an OP pre-nerf cycle alone. This is a card that DEMANDS your opponent to remove it, how hard can it be to grasp this? You know when your opponent plays brann, thaurissan or fendral? You know that bitter feeling in your mouth when you have no fast cards available to remove them, knowing that you're about to get buried in value? Exactly. That's why you can't have too many of these "have to remove" cards. 2 mana, random body, draw 2 cards, can you even fathom how insane this is? If it lives only one single little turn, you get to draw the second card and potentially shadow bolt the minion the guy played to contest your dude. How is this not utterly broken?
On turn 2, this is better than Novice Engineer. When you're topdecking... Not so much. More or less a 1/2 restore 2 health to your hero, but only if you don't have a board.
Besides, Warlock rarely needs the additional draw...
The only reason novice was even cited is to show that IN THE WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO, it is a BETTER novice.
This is absolutely not true. When you are topdecking, this does not allow you to draw an additional card, which makes it much worse than Novice. And when you have a board, this is a 2 mana 1/2 with no effect, which is obviously also worse than Novice. Having a board is a pretty common occurrence, as is topdecking- I believe that it is often better than Novice, but the variety of situations where it is worse makes it balanced.
Today in my free brawl pack I got Barongeddon, then I had a cup of fresh green tea. As a result of that, I think Priest is OP because my keyboard is not a mechanical one. I hope Blizzard will address this issue.
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I had a little trouble with the working, to make sure it was not ambiguous AND worked with other classes if that minion switched sides.
"You keep him in here, and make sure, he doesn't leave the room."
This will sound aggressive, but there is no other way to put this: you are terrible at balancing cards.
"You keep him in here, and make sure, he doesn't leave the room."
Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer
Silvermoon: thank you. I thought the penalty of only having ONE minion on the board, specially at turn 2 or 3, was enough. Maybe I was wrong. Is it still too OP? What could I do to balance a little? Make it a 0/2?
"You keep him in here, and make sure, he doesn't leave the room."
Apache, look. Warlock's hero power is the best one in the game. Drawing a card is a VERY powerful effect, that goes for any card game, keep this in mind, draw effects are strong. That is why it has the 2 health penalty. Consider that the improved version of life tap, given by the 6 mana TGT legendary whose name I forgot for some reason, only adds the benefit of cutting off the health penalty. So for 6 mana, you get a permanent buff, but you still have to pay mana for it. This should start to give you an idea why you went so overboard with that card. In summation, that effect does not fit a card this cheap, not even if it was a 0/1, especially with such an easy to fulfil requirement.
I think this card is not realy good for zoo decks.
In zoo you must always have board control or at least two or three minions.
But for reno decks maybe its a good card
"You keep him in here, and make sure, he doesn't leave the room."
You could also argue against it looking at the pros and cons. Best case scenario you draw 2-3 cards for free, not exactly free as you paid 2 for the body, but it is a neglectable cost given the benefit... maybe you should factor in not being able to play a minion until you knew your opponent would have means to kill your guy next turn, but it still isn't enough drawback. Worst case scenario you have a 2 drop with a reasonable body that will have to be removed by your opponent, in which case it slows him down a bit, and you get a free tap the turn you play it... so like a 2 mana 1/2 that draws a card, and has to be removed. Novice Engineer used to be 1/2, everyone used it back then.
As I said above, at best this is a 2 mana 1/2 that nets you 2-3 free cards. As a control deck you don't care about the lack of board presence, you're gaining card advantage for nothing and can still cast spells with your free mana. Not to mention that you could play a minion after you get your free tap, and trade it next turn, allowing you to free tap again that turn. You're just not looking at the big picture here, imo. This would absolutely go into renolock.
Why Rogue is my favourite class:
My submission for this week's card design competition.
I personally like the card, and think its pretty balanced. It's almost impossible to have it be on the field by itself for more than one turn, right? So, most likely you're only going to be able to exploit this ability once. If it's turn two, and your opponent missed a one drop, then yeah, your opponent is gonna have a bad time, but even then its not bad because at most you are going to get one more draw out of it, and then theyll probably get to trade for free. The fact that it has to be the only friendly minion on board and pretty poor stats make up for it. It's also worse than novice engineer in a sense (in a sense!) that you could play novice engineer on turn four and then tap to get a second card where that isn't an option for this card.
JMAP94. The best way to love the artist is to love the art.
It's perfectly well balanced because it is a warlock card.
I first thought it was very strong because the old Novice Engineer came to mind.
But it doesn't really make sense to run cycle in warlock since they get it at a discount.
This effect is the same as running post-nerf Novice Engineer in paladin which is the same as just hero powering.
On turn 2, this is better than Novice Engineer. When you're topdecking... Not so much. More or less a 1/2 restore 2 health to your hero, but only if you don't have a board.
Besides, Warlock rarely needs the additional draw...
#gNOmeferatu
Wow. I did not think this card would be so controversial. A few remarks:
1- I do not consider myself an expert on Hearthstone, I'm an average/mediocre player. If you guys say the card is unbalanced or OP or weak, I'll believe you - and I have no reason to take it personally or get offended. Hearthstone is not a pivotal piece of my life, and I don't care about being wrong. With that being said...
2- I thought about this card as a way to speed up Warlock initial hand, but giving a drawback of not having anything on the board. Maybe because I have a variant of Zoo, I thought that might be balanced - I could be wrong. Maybe the life stats are too similar to pre nerf Novice Engineer and that threw people off - I had just thought that a 1/1 could have been too unstable to keep on the board alone.
3- You gotta take into consideration this card would have an effect on the opponent's priority to remove it (and with no Taunts around, it would not be too difficult). It's not like playing a Leper Gnome...
4- Blizzard usually balances cards like this with other cards. Maybe if every class got an Epic minion that was similarly OP towards their Hero Power mechanic...
"You keep him in here, and make sure, he doesn't leave the room."
It doesn't make sense to run cycle cards in warlock, agreed. Except that this is AT WORST an OP pre-nerf cycle alone. This is a card that DEMANDS your opponent to remove it, how hard can it be to grasp this? You know when your opponent plays brann, thaurissan or fendral? You know that bitter feeling in your mouth when you have no fast cards available to remove them, knowing that you're about to get buried in value? Exactly. That's why you can't have too many of these "have to remove" cards. 2 mana, random body, draw 2 cards, can you even fathom how insane this is? If it lives only one single little turn, you get to draw the second card and potentially shadow bolt the minion the guy played to contest your dude. How is this not utterly broken?
#gNOmeferatu