So, after Ampharos, Reuniclus is one of my favorite Pokemon (Whimsicott and Shedinja round out my top 4). I didn't get what you were doing here at first, but then I finally realized this doesn't have the Evolve keyword and it's actually Reuniclus that's collectible, working backwards and making it like a super-Sludge Belcher. Gotta say, I love how this turned out thematically and conceptually. I don't think that it is at all balanced, though. Usually, Deathrattles are worth about half as much as Battlecries, so if you wanted to keep all of their stat lines the same (3/5, 2/3, 1/1), that'd mean one Duosion would be worth about (4) an one Reuniclus would be worth about (8). I suppose you could maybe get away with (7), but (6) is waaay to cheap for this.
That's a good point, I was looking at Wobbling Runts and based it off of that but this deathrattle does seem to be in another league. 7 it is then, thanks for the input asylum.
OH MY GOD, I just had an idea and I think I'm going to change things around but keep it at 6 mana. I think what I may do is have Solosis be collectible, and have it evolve into Duosion and then Reuniclus. But I'll keep everything else the same. Opinions? I think that may be balanced.
Yeah, I think the problem with pokemon trainer class is that there is soo many cards in it. I mean, at least one out of three cards have three evolutions or some card related to any type of pokemon (fight, ice, electric, bug...) It's hard as hell, and theoretically we were expecting classes to be easy to understand (Incubus's only difficulty is the shuffled nightmares, Agent's Cover Up is tricky but understandable...). However,it's true that you made a huge work with this, and definitively you deserved to make it this far.
Oh, and Asylum, don't you dare not to put sasquatch and the pyramids as cards. Don't you double dare!
If he thinks the same as me, it's probably the shitload of "token" cards the class has. Not my type, but to each its own I guess.
Not just tokenitis, though (which is abused to the point on not being even funny, but not a deal-breaker). The class has poor balance in general, extremely complex cards (Atop Sky Pillar as a Basic card? Sure!), violated the rules by making cards with restricted keywords (Combo, Choose One, etc) and plays way too much with cards in hand rather than on the field limiting player interaction... but those are actually minor in comparison to what I consider a fatal flaw.
The class does NOT work as part of Hearthstone. It's in its very own playing universe, being only functional with class cards - which beats the point of a TCG completely. Neutral cards have no room in a Pokémon Master deck, because they are useless in comparison to running just Pokémon - which in turn means that deck variability would be minimal.
Not to mention cards like Thoughtsteal or Burgle being completely neutered (what can you do with a Mega-Stone? What good are Pokémon that you cannot evolve?). We already have cases like those, such as copying a Deadly Poison or Shield Slam, but that's relatively exceptional compared to having a 50-60% chance to draw a card that you can't really do anything with. But don't get me wrong, this isn't about card copying being useless against a Pokémaster (or well, all of them) but rather, another symptom of how extremely self-locked this class is.
It may use Hearthstone's card format, mechanics and keywords, but in the larger scope of things it lives outside of the game. As far as class design goes, which is the point of this Competition, it really wouldn't have made it past the first round had it not been riding on the popularity of Pokémon. I can commend the efforts of making all these cards and tokens, which is huge, but that's about it.
You pretty much said what I've been thinking since the Competition started. I'm not trying to be a dick or sound salty here, but yeah, most of the times this competition has been a popularity contest rather than a build-a-functional-class. It happens, we see it in the weekly competitions as well. There's not much we can do about it TBH. Hell, remember he had to change his Hero Power because it was useless with the Basic Cards and pretty much a dead pick with Sir Finley.
Hey guys, I just posted my finale topic. Check it out in my signature!
I really hope you guys like it, I worked super hard on it. Let me know what you think in the comments.
Also, @Gomelus, I was totally thinking about putting Gengar in because he's super-awesome but I realized that I actually had two cards with a Gengar on it already. So, I'd rather not be redundant.
*Asylum is trying to decide whether or not he can get away with this for his TGT legendary.*
Yes, the Black Knight Satellite is totally a thing in conspiracy theory circles. Though obscure, I finally settled on it as something that could be really cool for the Agent's TGT legendary, if for no other reason than because of its name. And its name made me want to do something with Joust... And, well, this was the first thing that came to mind. XD
I like it. Since it reveals only during your turn it should negate most criticism you got for Champion of Azeroth.
It also fits your class thematically and I like how he reveals himself from time to time without ever being reachable, just like the legend of the black knight satellite.
I swear, if the popularity of Pokemon makes the Pokemon class win, I riot.
What is it about my class that you dislike?
I personally don't like your class and the bard. While the original idea of both are great, it falls short the longer the competition. For you (pokemon) like mentioned above, too many tokens and there's not much of a synergy imo. You've got plenty of pokemon but none seems to work with each others/spells. It's pretty much "pokemon A got this ability, evolution gain a better version of that ability". And it also comes to a point where your class has every ability in the game, which imo is not interesting and lacks flavor. Also, people seem to vote based on the fact you are Pokemon.
The same thing about the bard, which I already mentioned early in the competition that his class has every single ability in the game. While the actual bard may give all kind of different buff, you've got to choose among some and work around it. Getting every ability is just going the easy way and not creative.
I'm not putting you guys down, you obviously worked hard on your cards but I'm just expressing my thoughts towards this.
Well, I really like the Bard, in fact I was not convinced of it at first sight, but got me at GvG. Maybe because managed to catch the crazy part of said expansion.
This card's effects feels more suited to an epic card instead of a legendary... Mainly because I want to have a higher chance of drawing this earlier by having 2 copies in my deck. :]
If it had an effect that activated whenever it's revealed, it would make it better as a legendary. Sort of like the alien ship coming and doing something before coming out haha.
Well. In all honesty. I actually liked the Geomancer the most. Had excellent art and some really, really outstanding cards. As for the other classes:
Yeah, the pokemon trainer doesn't work. I mean, I think you had about 20 or so tokens for just one card and there are some balancing issues as well. It is also very apparent this class is going forward due to the theme, not the content of the class. Instead of discussing the cards themselves, you have replies to your thread talking about favourite pokemon. Sorry if I sounded harsh.
Now, for the Bard, I have extremely high expectations and standards, mainly because I created my own Bard class a while back. And while it does meet some, it became too... "de-centralized" as the competition went on. It doesn't seem to have an overall class theme now. The balancing and all other technical aspects are spot on, true, but it lacks unity. And it needs more puns and references. :P
Incubus is the most "acceptable" of the four entries. That is, it is the closest thing you could compare to an in-game class. It's got some great art as well and some really neat card names. A couple of missed words here and there though, in your card effects.
The Agent's keyword is what baffles me the most. I can tell you've done your best to make sure it can be played around and not too discouraging for the opponent, but there are some cases where the keyword falls apart. Here: Indrid Cold. What happens if you were up against a Wallet Warrior and both of you guys are almost decking out? You cover up his remaining two cards which were both 6+ Mana. Then what? Does he just start fatiguing early? Another one. Quarantine on something like Ancient Watcher, Nerubian Egg, a 0/2 Shaman totem, etc., all often-played cards. That's such a massive tempo loss for your opponent. That being said, the overall theme of this class is perhaps the most interesting and unique out of the four finalists, so props for that.
Well. In all honesty. I actually liked the Geomancer the most. Had excellent art and some really, really outstanding cards. As for the other classes:
Yeah, the pokemon trainer doesn't work. I mean, I think you had about 20 or so tokens for just one card and there are some balancing issues as well. It is also very apparent this class is going forward due to the theme, not the content of the class. Instead of discussing the cards themselves, you have replies to your thread talking about favourite pokemon. Sorry if I sounded harsh.
Now, for the Bard, I have extremely high expectations and standards, mainly because I created my own Bard class a while back. And while it does meet some, it became too... "de-centralized" as the competition went on. It doesn't seem to have an overall class theme now. The balancing and all other technical aspects are spot on, true, but it lacks unity. And it needs more puns and references. :P
Incubus is the most "acceptable" of the four entries. That is, it is the closest thing you could compare to an in-game class. It's got some great art as well and some really neat card names. A couple of missed words here and there though, in your card effects.
The Agent's keyword is what baffles me the most. I can tell you've done your best to make sure it can be played around and not too discouraging for the opponent, but there are some cases where the keyword falls apart. Here: Indrid Cold. What happens if you were up against a Wallet Warrior and both of you guys are almost decking out? You cover up his remaining two cards which were both 6+ Mana. Then what? Does he just start fatiguing early? Another one. Quarantine on something like Ancient Watcher, Nerubian Egg, a 0/2 Shaman totem, etc., all often-played cards. That's such a massive tempo loss for your opponent. That being said, the overall theme of this class is perhaps the most interesting and unique out of the four finalists, so props for that.
Gotta agree with about everything you've said here. I wasn't surprised that the Pokemon master made it past the first round, because it looked interesting at the very least, and having Pokemon HS cards is obviously very cool, but ever since the whole keyword issue I think the class fell apart. However it still has been pretty much #1 in votes in all the competition phases, which sort of speaks to how shallow the competition judges are (i.e., anonymous users), and how much disregard they have for actual playability vs the rule of cool.
The Bard was always interesting to me, although I also thought that the keyword and its interactions were a bit strange. The songs never really felt like "songs" to me save a couple, although that's just nitpicking.
The Agent, thematically, is by far the coolest out of the four finalists. Although yeah, you are right, there has to be a restriction on some of the cover up cards. Although its Hero power and secret designs are all pretty neat.
To be honest, I was never that big of a fan of Incubus, since I don't really like Hero powers that generate more than one kind of token (like Shaman), plus you add in another interaction by shuffling it into your opponent's deck. The artwork is spectacular, however, and i applaud the creator for being able to find such appropriate and fitting art for such a unique class. But the cards are soundly balanced, for the most part I think, but they're just so unique sometimes it's hard to judge. Cool class nonetheless. Deserving of #1 spot, however? I'm not entirely sure. Honestly, IMO there were way better classes than these four that dropped out early, like Geomancer, Symbiote, and to a certain extent the Pirate. I guess you need more than just clever simplicity to win these kinds of grand competitions.
I sincerely hope Gomelus' Geomancer at least gets an honorable mention or something. That class was pretty neat, and to lose to a class that generates literally 50+ mindlessly balanced token cards must be a big kick in the balls.
The Agent's keyword is what baffles me the most. I can tell you've done your best to make sure it can be played around and not too discouraging for the opponent, but there are some cases where the keyword falls apart. Here: Indrid Cold. What happens if you were up against a Wallet Warrior and both of you guys are almost decking out? You cover up his remaining two cards which were both 6+ Mana. Then what? Does he just start fatiguing early?
Yes. He will simply start to fatigue early. It may be worth clarification, though, that drawing fatigue cards will cound as drawing cards for the purpose of Indrid Cold's effect. I'll add that in. =)
Another one. Quarantine on something like Ancient Watcher, Nerubian Egg, a 0/2 Shaman totem, etc., all often-played cards. That's such a massive tempo loss for your opponent.
I considered exactly those thing, and that's what made me bump the price up from what it was initially. With regards to collectible cards like Ancient Watcher and Nerubian Egg, nobody plays those without enablers. People use Ironbeak Owl on their Ancient Watchers, and people use Abusive Sergeants on their Nerubian Eggs. Even in the existing game, you simply shouldn't be playing those cards without also including ways in your deck to ensure they can attack, so the threat of Quarantine changes nothing there.
I also considered the Shaman's Hero Power totems, but Shaman again has tons of practically staple cards like Flametongue Totem and Rockbiter Weapon that get around this. Plus, Wrath of Air and Stoneclaw are ones the Agent doesn't want sticking around anyway, so only Healing is potentially problematic, and even that ends up as a huge disincentive for the Agent to use AoEs.
All in all, Quarantine is definitely one of those cards where the best case scenario can look like a super big deal. But because of the placing requirements and such, it's just not consistent enough. It's comparable to Betrayal in that regard.
That being said, the overall theme of this class is perhaps the most interesting and unique out of the four finalists, so props for that.
I don't want this response to seem defensive or butthurt, but at least understand that people have different values and opinions when they're evaluating classes.
Personally, I like the whole 'tokens' theme. I also understand why people may not like it, but it isn't '50+ mindlessly balanced' cards. I tried to balance them all and the only response that I get is from a very vocal minority about how my class is 'generally unbalanced' without ever specifying anything. I get the whole 'Atop Sky Pillar as a basic? really?', and its simply a matter of opinion as to what defines a basic card. I stayed within the rules and I kept the whole thing balanced. If you guys have any balance concerns, please post them! I would love to hear them! I don't see many specific ones, so I simply thought you guys were on board. But then I started getting 'the whole thing is unbalanced', and when I asked for specifics, I got pretty much nothing.
When I started making the class, I wanted to make a pokemon class where the pokemon actually evolve. How would I do that without making evolution cards? I had to make evolution cards.
As for the crazy token cards, I simply like tokens. It's an opinion, and a bunch of voters share my opinion. Opinions aren't correct/incorrect; I can see where the opposing side is coming from and I understand that they think it's 'scummy'. At the end of the day though, we simply disagree about a strictly opinion-based issue.
BTW, it's weird, but after the voting there's been poping up a lot of people expressing their support for the Geomancer. Thanks for that guys, although you could've VOTED HARDER. Cooking up the TGT and LOE sets now, I'll try to have them soon.
Regarding the Pokemon class, since I never really cared about it, I didn't even bother to check for OP cards or whatnot, the only that bothered me was Atop Sky Pillar (and expressed myself about that at the time).
I feel better knowing that, but why do you attribute all of my class' success to pokemon's popularity?
I worked really hard to balance the class and to keep it fun/exciting. I didn't rely on pokemon's popularity to carry me through the stages, I worked on making the class itself cool. And then, at the final stage, you said you'd riot if I win? Why? What if people voted for me based on the class itself, and not because it's popular? I notice that for some reason, there are people that just don't like my class specifically. However, the only feedback that I get are strictly opinion-based aesthetic choices like the token amounts or the definition of a basic card. Throughout the entire competition, I've gotten zero specific balance concerns. Yet people call the whole thing unbalanced.
Again, I don't mean to sound butthurt, but it feels bad to have your work simply be attributed to being 'carried by popularity'. In the end, it's just a hearthstone competition for the sake of fun. I tried to keep things fun and lighthearted.
I feel better knowing that, but why do you attribute all of my class' success to pokemon's popularity?
I worked really hard to balance the class and to keep it fun/exciting. I didn't rely on pokemon's popularity to carry me through the stages, I worked on making the class itself cool. And then, at the final stage, you said you'd riot if I win? Why? What if people voted for me based on the class itself, and not because it's popular? I notice that for some reason, there are people that just don't like my class specifically. However, the only feedback that I get are strictly opinion-based aesthetic choices like the token amounts or the definition of a basic card. Throughout the entire competition, I've gotten zero specific balance concerns. Yet people call the whole thing unbalanced.
Again, I don't mean to sound butthurt, but it feels bad to have your work simply be attributed to being 'carried by popularity'. In the end, it's just a hearthstone competition for the sake of fun. I tried to keep things fun and lighthearted.
No one said you used pokemon for an advantage nor for all your class success.
Phase 1 - You posted few card and got feedback (Lapras was mentioned OP you didn't want to change it. Also the Atop Sky Pillar, you didn't want to change it either.) Phase 2 - Posted nothing in discussion, submitted to submission topic THEN asked in discussion for a review? like really? Phase 3 - Again, post in submission THEN asked for review in discussion. Phase 4 - SAME THING AGAIN...... Phase 5 - You finally did it right?
Not sure how you can complain about no review when you give us nothing to review to begin with. I'm not going to review a submission, you're not supposed to change it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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That's a good point, I was looking at Wobbling Runts and based it off of that but this deathrattle does seem to be in another league. 7 it is then, thanks for the input asylum.
OH MY GOD, I just had an idea and I think I'm going to change things around but keep it at 6 mana. I think what I may do is have Solosis be collectible, and have it evolve into Duosion and then Reuniclus. But I'll keep everything else the same. Opinions? I think that may be balanced.
Check here for my new cards!Pokemon HS class!All the Pokemon as HS cards!
Yeah, I think the problem with pokemon trainer class is that there is soo many cards in it. I mean, at least one out of three cards have three evolutions or some card related to any type of pokemon (fight, ice, electric, bug...) It's hard as hell, and theoretically we were expecting classes to be easy to understand (Incubus's only difficulty is the shuffled nightmares, Agent's Cover Up is tricky but understandable...). However,it's true that you made a huge work with this, and definitively you deserved to make it this far.
Oh, and Asylum, don't you dare not to put sasquatch and the pyramids as cards. Don't you double dare!
Click to see my Hearthstone projects:
Siras Terra, the Geomancer
Hey guys, I just posted my finale topic. Check it out in my signature!
I really hope you guys like it, I worked super hard on it. Let me know what you think in the comments.
Also, @Gomelus, I was totally thinking about putting Gengar in because he's super-awesome but I realized that I actually had two cards with a Gengar on it already. So, I'd rather not be redundant.
Check here for my new cards!Pokemon HS class!All the Pokemon as HS cards!
Well, I really like the Bard, in fact I was not convinced of it at first sight, but got me at GvG. Maybe because managed to catch the crazy part of said expansion.
Click to see my Hearthstone projects:
This card's effects feels more suited to an epic card instead of a legendary... Mainly because I want to have a higher chance of drawing this earlier by having 2 copies in my deck. :]
If it had an effect that activated whenever it's revealed, it would make it better as a legendary. Sort of like the alien ship coming and doing something before coming out haha.
Well. In all honesty. I actually liked the Geomancer the most. Had excellent art and some really, really outstanding cards. As for the other classes:
Yes. He will simply start to fatigue early. It may be worth clarification, though, that drawing fatigue cards will cound as drawing cards for the purpose of Indrid Cold's effect. I'll add that in. =)
I considered exactly those thing, and that's what made me bump the price up from what it was initially. With regards to collectible cards like Ancient Watcher and Nerubian Egg, nobody plays those without enablers. People use Ironbeak Owl on their Ancient Watchers, and people use Abusive Sergeants on their Nerubian Eggs. Even in the existing game, you simply shouldn't be playing those cards without also including ways in your deck to ensure they can attack, so the threat of Quarantine changes nothing there.
I also considered the Shaman's Hero Power totems, but Shaman again has tons of practically staple cards like Flametongue Totem and Rockbiter Weapon that get around this. Plus, Wrath of Air and Stoneclaw are ones the Agent doesn't want sticking around anyway, so only Healing is potentially problematic, and even that ends up as a huge disincentive for the Agent to use AoEs.
All in all, Quarantine is definitely one of those cards where the best case scenario can look like a super big deal. But because of the placing requirements and such, it's just not consistent enough. It's comparable to Betrayal in that regard.
I don't want this response to seem defensive or butthurt, but at least understand that people have different values and opinions when they're evaluating classes.
Personally, I like the whole 'tokens' theme. I also understand why people may not like it, but it isn't '50+ mindlessly balanced' cards. I tried to balance them all and the only response that I get is from a very vocal minority about how my class is 'generally unbalanced' without ever specifying anything. I get the whole 'Atop Sky Pillar as a basic? really?', and its simply a matter of opinion as to what defines a basic card. I stayed within the rules and I kept the whole thing balanced. If you guys have any balance concerns, please post them! I would love to hear them! I don't see many specific ones, so I simply thought you guys were on board. But then I started getting 'the whole thing is unbalanced', and when I asked for specifics, I got pretty much nothing.
When I started making the class, I wanted to make a pokemon class where the pokemon actually evolve. How would I do that without making evolution cards? I had to make evolution cards.
As for the crazy token cards, I simply like tokens. It's an opinion, and a bunch of voters share my opinion. Opinions aren't correct/incorrect; I can see where the opposing side is coming from and I understand that they think it's 'scummy'. At the end of the day though, we simply disagree about a strictly opinion-based issue.
Check here for my new cards!Pokemon HS class!All the Pokemon as HS cards!
IT'S GETTING HOT IN HERE.
BTW, it's weird, but after the voting there's been poping up a lot of people expressing their support for the Geomancer. Thanks for that guys, although you could've VOTED HARDER. Cooking up the TGT and LOE sets now, I'll try to have them soon.
Regarding the Pokemon class, since I never really cared about it, I didn't even bother to check for OP cards or whatnot, the only that bothered me was Atop Sky Pillar (and expressed myself about that at the time).
Siras Terra, the Geomancer
Here my idea for the 2nd win
Tokens:
Based on The Living Tombstone
- Click Here To Join Us On Discord! -
TBH, I have no qualms with the Pokemon class, save that if it won mostly due to Pokemon's popularity.
Vote for Stormwind Strategist in this weeks' Card Design Competition. Click the image or HERE for full view.
I feel better knowing that, but why do you attribute all of my class' success to pokemon's popularity?
I worked really hard to balance the class and to keep it fun/exciting. I didn't rely on pokemon's popularity to carry me through the stages, I worked on making the class itself cool. And then, at the final stage, you said you'd riot if I win? Why? What if people voted for me based on the class itself, and not because it's popular? I notice that for some reason, there are people that just don't like my class specifically. However, the only feedback that I get are strictly opinion-based aesthetic choices like the token amounts or the definition of a basic card. Throughout the entire competition, I've gotten zero specific balance concerns. Yet people call the whole thing unbalanced.
Again, I don't mean to sound butthurt, but it feels bad to have your work simply be attributed to being 'carried by popularity'. In the end, it's just a hearthstone competition for the sake of fun. I tried to keep things fun and lighthearted.
Check here for my new cards!Pokemon HS class!All the Pokemon as HS cards!
Phase 2 - Posted nothing in discussion, submitted to submission topic THEN asked in discussion for a review? like really?
Phase 3 - Again, post in submission THEN asked for review in discussion.
Phase 4 - SAME THING AGAIN......
Phase 5 - You finally did it right?