In Magic, Unsummon is only 1 mana and can target your own minions as well. If anything, Sap is too expensive!!
Was about to come and say this too lol.. and don't forget.. Magic has spells that cost more than 10 mana and have no cost reductions.. so imagine playing Darksteel Colossus for 11 and then getting it unsummoned for 1 lol
In Magic, Unsummon is only 1 mana and can target your own minions as well.
So we are supposed to pretend that this is related to HS?
Yes, a game with nearly identical rules as Hearthstone shows that a card like Sap can be at 1 mana and still be only okay. Many Hearthstone cards are clearly priced/copied based off Magic cards with the exact same cost and effect.
It is not unreasonable to extrapolate the results of this nearly identical game on to Hearthstone and infer that Sap would probably not be broken at 1 mana.
In Magic, Unsummon is only 1 mana and can target your own minions as well.
So we are supposed to pretend that this is related to HS?
Yes, a game with nearly identical rules as Hearthstone show that a card like Sap can be at 1 mana and still be only okay. Many Hearthstone cards are clearly priced/copied based off Magic cards with the exact same cost and effect.
It is not unreasonable to extrapolate the results of this nearly identical game on to Hearthstone and it infer that Sap would probably not be broken at 1 mana.
Nearly identical?
There is no out-of-turn interaction in HS. That difference alone is sufficient to detach MTG from HS completely.
That's a fundamental difference that makes any attempts to compare the two games futile.
Because there are not only many minions that sapping back is incredible bad (Dr. Balanced for example), also the enemy don't loose the minion, rather you give it to him back. Surely it's a tempo loss and in most cases you can't summon it immeadetly back (At 8 Mana, summoning Dr. Balanced back is often worse than 2 minions + hero power)
Stunning a minion would be much weaker: taunt, passive effects, etc. by returning it to their hand you make them waste the mana they spent, which is the true power of Sap.
on a side note, there should be rogue minions that stun, maybe with the effect removing it from play until the next turn (different than freeze, it would remove taunt and passive ability)
Freeze Trap is 2 mana and makes the enemy minion cost two more. How is Sap too cheap again?
Because Freezing Trap can actually be played around. You can drop a bunch of weak minions and force them to trade in to your trash minions in order to protect their freezing. If you have a small charger, you can use that. If you have something like Sunfury or Argus, you just taunt up your big card that they wanted to Freezing, and now they have to attack it anyways. You drop something that has an amazing battle cry, stuff that heals like Reno/Healbot, and they're forced to spend minions or damage spells killing it, because they don't want that returned to your hand.
That's why Freezing trap is fair. Sap just makes any single late-game card in your hand that doesn't have an immediate battlecry completely useless and unplayable. The tempo loss from you playing something that's 9/10 mana, and the opponent sapping it is game losing in itself. A 2 mana "if you're playing big cards, you just skipped your turn" card is pretty stupid to be honest.
Cards that punish people for daring to play big minions, are pretty badly designed cards. Look at Big Game Hunter, that card alone practically means anything with over 7 attack that can't be 'cheated out' (Like Molten's for free, or Mal'Ganis through voidcaller's), are essentially unplayable.
In Magic, Unsummon is only 1 mana and can target your own minions as well.
So we are supposed to pretend that this is related to HS?
Yes, a game with nearly identical rules as Hearthstone shows that a card like Sap can be at 1 mana and still be only okay. Many Hearthstone cards are clearly priced/copied based off Magic cards with the exact same cost and effect.
It is not unreasonable to extrapolate the results of this nearly identical game on to Hearthstone and infer that Sap would probably not be broken at 1 mana.
Magic has 2 mana 2/2's.. if they had a 2 mana 5/2 it would blow their mind
Freeze Trap is 2 mana and makes the enemy minion cost two more. How is Sap too cheap again?
Because Freezing Trap can actually be played around. You can drop a bunch of weak minions and force them to trade in to your trash minions in order to protect their freezing. If you have a small charger, you can use that. If you have something like Sunfury or Argus, you just taunt up your big card that they wanted to Freezing, and now they have to attack it anyways. You drop something that has an amazing battle cry, stuff that heals like Reno/Healbot, and they're forced to spend minions or damage spells killing it, because they don't want that returned to your hand.
That's why Freezing trap is fair. Sap just makes any single late-game card in your hand that doesn't have an immediate battlecry completely useless and unplayable. The tempo loss from you playing something that's 9/10 mana, and the opponent sapping it is game losing in itself. A 2 mana "if you're playing big cards, you just skipped your turn" card is pretty stupid to be honest.
Cards that punish people for daring to play big minions, are pretty badly designed cards. Look at Big Game Hunter, that card alone practically means anything with over 7 attack that can't be 'cheated out' (Like Molten's for free, or Mal'Ganis through voidcaller's), are essentially unplayable.
Sap is also incredibly clunky imagine if you draw and force to use them early and fail to draw your card draws you would be at card disadvantage for some time.
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I've just started playing rogue more (wasnt that interested before) but I am finding Sap to be a bit OP for only 2 mana...
Your opponent spends his whole turn putting down a big mana minion and you can use sap for 2 mana to remove it from the field? Kinda absurd.
It's because, barring mill rogue shenanigans, you can play it again.
Mainly because they can just play it again. Compare it to assassinate. It would be super under powered at 4 mana, and wouldn't be usable at 3 mana.
In Magic, Unsummon is only 1 mana and can target your own minions as well. If anything, Sap is too expensive!!
"Put your face in the light!" - Tirion Fordring
I actually cut Sap from my Oil Rogue because it is too clunky at times.
Yesterday you said tomorrow.
"Put your face in the light!" - Tirion Fordring
Because there are not only many minions that sapping back is incredible bad (Dr. Balanced for example), also the enemy don't loose the minion, rather you give it to him back. Surely it's a tempo loss and in most cases you can't summon it immeadetly back (At 8 Mana, summoning Dr. Balanced back is often worse than 2 minions + hero power)
Freeze Trap is 2 mana and makes the enemy minion cost two more. How is Sap too cheap again?
Why? Cause it sucks. And having it cost more then 2 mana would make it unplayable.
Stunning a minion would be much weaker: taunt, passive effects, etc. by returning it to their hand you make them waste the mana they spent, which is the true power of Sap.
on a side note, there should be rogue minions that stun, maybe with the effect removing it from play until the next turn (different than freeze, it would remove taunt and passive ability)
That's why Freezing trap is fair. Sap just makes any single late-game card in your hand that doesn't have an immediate battlecry completely useless and unplayable. The tempo loss from you playing something that's 9/10 mana, and the opponent sapping it is game losing in itself. A 2 mana "if you're playing big cards, you just skipped your turn" card is pretty stupid to be honest.
Cards that punish people for daring to play big minions, are pretty badly designed cards. Look at Big Game Hunter, that card alone practically means anything with over 7 attack that can't be 'cheated out' (Like Molten's for free, or Mal'Ganis through voidcaller's), are essentially unplayable.
Yesterday you said tomorrow.