If you play the decks a lot and learn the different nuances and match ups it doesn't matter if you run one or two zombies. I don't think 2 equality's are necessary anymore with keeper of uldaman. She is just such a strong and flexible card in midrange either offensively or defensively. I don't play a ton of pally but have like 350 rank wins with them (my second most to mage) and can think of only one or two times chow f'ed me up to the point of losing. Versus tempo Mage I like to save my second chow (or if I drew a late game first chow) for mirror entity to net me 5 heal.
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Casual HS player - Achieved Legend in November 2015 and August 2016
If you play the decks a lot and learn the different nuances and match ups it doesn't matter if you run one or two zombies. I don't think 2 equality's are necessary anymore with keeper of uldaman. She is just such a strong and flexible card in midrange either offensively or defensively. I don't play a ton of pally but have like 350 rank wins with them (my second most to mage) and can think of only one or two times chow f'ed me up to the point of losing. Versus tempo Mage I like to save my second chow (or if I drew a late game first chow) for mirror entity to net me 5 heal.
Let's be real, a late game chow is more likely to just be a dead draw than to lose you the game. However, against Warlocks in particular I find chow to be more of a hinderance than a help, especially if the change to make is to get rid of a second equality.
Their deceptive HP manipulation also makes playing Zombie Chow a risky proposition. You might be threatening lethal with an extra 2 power on the board and then the Warlock plays a shadowflame and a taunt and now you've given him two free taps. Holding the chow is also a losing play because an extra turn of dealing damage gives him an opportunity to draw into the game winning drops that make warlocks so frustrating to play against.
On the other hand, equality deals with virtually anything warlocks rely on to win games.
No one has mentioned this, but Ramp Druid can use 2x chow very effectively. Admittedly Ramp hasn't been doing too well lately, but when your deck is in it for the long haul and doesn't have big sweepers and limited spot removal, being able to contest the board if you don't ramp is pretty important. Plus, in the late game it's another body for Savage Roar. The five hp heal isn't a big deal when you plan on bashing your opponent's face in with an Ancient of War or an Emerald Drake.
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Unless explicitly stated, my posts are my opinion and mine only.
So you're telling me Chow is bad because you have a 1/4 chances to get in on turn 1?
This statement seems to indicate that you haven't actually been reading anything I've posted. I already know why Zombie Chow is a good card. I run one. I'm looking for an argument for why I should run two. Nobody has been able to offer anything like that except for increasingly exaggerated claims that Zombie Chow is some kind of panacea.
Your argument was that failing to play a Chow on turn 1 led to some kind of horrible outcome that I should be afraid of. My rebuttal was that your scenario is actually the majority of games. My deck is already built for the scenario where I don't get Chow because most of the time you don't get chow, even if you have two.
I hear you, as what many people here fail to mention is that mid-range paladin also really lacks draw - so pulling that 2nd zombie chow in the mid/late game can really hurt. I took a mid-pala deck to rank 4 a couple of seasons back and ran just the one, and preferred it that way.
I think you're seriously underestimating the card's ability to trade up and survive, vs Hunter it's pretty important to be able to both kill the Mad Scientist and activate the trap with the same card. The heal doesn't really matter, either the first Zombie Chow trades and the heal is irrelevant or your win condition in Paladin, Priest, Warlock etc. is to control the board and out last your opponent instead of race him. Games are won and lost well before life total's reach zero.
Late game it's a pretty bad pull. And many times I play against it, I am happy to see it and it helps me stall to get an answer.
It shines on turn one or two I suppose.
I'm no pro either, I do the rank 5 rush every month. I do play alotta Paladin tho, and I am fine without chow. If I go second, many times I can drop a MiniBot onto an empty board... I also run Shielded mini bot and haunter creeper cause they are real sticky for the first few turns and help smooth me into the mid game. If I draw them late they are not that bad either since annoy-a-tron usually buys me a turn like belcher and haunted usually gets some kind of value (and both can be buffed)
i refused to play double chow in mid-range paladin then realized paladin's 4 drop slot looks like a Public transport had to remove one 4 drop and add zombie chow and so far it's been more consistent.
If you judge a card's power based on it's topdeck potential, you're throwing out a lot of cards. Topdecking an equality or a blessing of kings with nothing on board is a dead draw, too, but that's not a reason to avoid putting either in your deck.
If you judge a card's power based on it's topdeck potential, you're throwing out a lot of cards. Topdecking an equality or a blessing of kings with nothing on board is a dead draw, too, but that's not a reason to avoid putting either in your deck.
Actually that's the exact argument against including doubles of a lot of cards. Ironbeak Owl is a really common example
So you're telling me Chow is bad because you have a 1/4 chances to get in on turn 1?
This statement seems to indicate that you haven't actually been reading anything I've posted. I already know why Zombie Chow is a good card. I run one. I'm looking for an argument for why I should run two. Nobody has been able to offer anything like that except for increasingly exaggerated claims that Zombie Chow is some kind of panacea.
Your argument was that failing to play a Chow on turn 1 led to some kind of horrible outcome that I should be afraid of. My rebuttal was that your scenario is actually the majority of games. My deck is already built for the scenario where I don't get Chow because most of the time you don't get chow, even if you have two.
I main mid pally and run 2 chow simply because of probability. As others have pointed out the chance you get a chow in your opening hand is 25% if you run 2 and only 13% if you run 1.
You've already admitted to knowing why chow is so good in the early game so why not increase your chances of a fast start? I don't think early game can be treated as having the same importance as a tech card as tech cards are situational and sometimes those situations never come. Early game is important in every game.
The other reason is that it's perfectly fine to collect a tech card mid game and wait for the perfect opportunity to use it. It is not as beneficial however to just wait around and collect zombie chow whenever you want, you want it in the early game. If you only keep 1 chow the point of having a 1 drop in the first place seems to be a bit hazy. Since the chances are stacked overwhelmingly against you that you would get zombie chow in the opening hand or even in turns 2 or 3 why even run 1?
So in summary I keep 2 chows because it increases the chances I will get one or mulligan for one on turn 1 and many times, that faster start can be a big influence on the game.
Good points on probabilities, and with Midrange Paladins style of play +5 or a maximum of +10 (which is very unlikely considering that first chow dies before the opponent has even taken 5 points of damage) is worth it.
Even late game, if you have a good board and drop a chow that can finish off a threatening minion to keep one of your fatties alive is a net gain in damage usually.
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Casual HS player - Achieved Legend in November 2015 and August 2016
Good points on probabilities, and with Midrange Paladins style of play +5 or a maximum of +10 (which is very unlikely considering that first chow dies before the opponent has even taken 5 points of damage) is worth it.
Even late game, if you have a good board and drop a chow that can finish off a threatening minion to keep one of your fatties alive is a net gain in damage usually.
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Casual HS player - Achieved Legend in November 2015 and August 2016
The thread title is perfectly on point. No arguments are going to convince OP to run 2 chows.
/thread
I was hoping for some kind of data driven argument like "my win rate was 50% and adding a second chow increased it to 55%" or maybe "Here's a video by savjz explaining why to run two instead of one" Instead all I've seen are arguments why to run one with the ejaculation that because one is good, two is twice as good.
Especially baffling is the statement that equality isn't an early game board control card. Combined with muster for battle, which I have two of (and a higher probability of drawing one by turn 3 instead of turn 1) it clears any play with no downside.
You can use equality early as a board clear, but in most cases (except vs druid innervating out something like Dr. Boom or Fel Reaver early and maybe.. maaaaaaaybe.. dragon priest) anything your opponent plays early is easy enough to deal with without having to burn an equality. Chow just gives you that body to be able to do it so you can save equality for later. But play it however you want, 1 chow is fine too and isn't the end of the world :P
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Casual HS player - Achieved Legend in November 2015 and August 2016
I'm not trying to be obtuse. How does zombie chow deal with Dr Boom, Fel Reaver, or any of the degenerate early high health plays of either Warlock or Priest? It does 2 damage? Equality is obviously better in these common scenarios and you don't need to save it for later if you have two.
My favourite class is Priest and I've never had a deck that didn't include 2 Zombie Chow. I always cheer when I manage to mulligan one or two if I'm lucky. Early pressure, I can heal 'em or slap a Power Word: Shield on them. Turn 4 (or 3 with a coin) it's time for Auchenai Soulpriest. And then I suicide the zombies into the enemy's minions. They die, the enemy player is wringing his hands in anticipation and BAM. 5-10 face damage instead of 5-10 health. What have you done to me?
If there are no minions to suicide into, a no mana cost Circle of Healing also does the trick. Kills unbuffed zombies, kills most everything else but keeps the soulpriest up.
For control decks you absolutely want Zombie chow in your opening hand, even if it means to draw him later. Especially on Priest where he is useful even on turn 10 with auchenai or with paladin where it matters to have board control, not enemys life. Especially when you have Justicar Trueheart and your Hero-Power becomes absolutely nuts. Even in control i play him when i have spare mana, heck even if he gets killed, he needed to trade.
My favourite class is Priest and I've never had a deck that didn't include 2 Zombie Chow. I always cheer when I manage to mulligan one or two if I'm lucky. Early pressure, I can heal 'em or slap a Power Word: Shield on them. Turn 4 (or 3 with a coin) it's time for Auchenai Soulpriest. And then I suicide the zombies into the enemy's minions. They die, the enemy player is wringing his hands in anticipation and BAM. 5-10 face damage instead of 5-10 health. What have you done to me?
If there are no minions to suicide into, a no mana cost Circle of Healing also does the trick. Kills unbuffed zombies, kills most everything else but keeps the soulpriest up.
That is all very interesting but everyone else has been talking about ZCs in a Pally deck...
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If you play the decks a lot and learn the different nuances and match ups it doesn't matter if you run one or two zombies. I don't think 2 equality's are necessary anymore with keeper of uldaman. She is just such a strong and flexible card in midrange either offensively or defensively. I don't play a ton of pally but have like 350 rank wins with them (my second most to mage) and can think of only one or two times chow f'ed me up to the point of losing. Versus tempo Mage I like to save my second chow (or if I drew a late game first chow) for mirror entity to net me 5 heal.
Casual HS player - Achieved Legend in November 2015 and August 2016
Keep calm and use your hero power
No one has mentioned this, but Ramp Druid can use 2x chow very effectively. Admittedly Ramp hasn't been doing too well lately, but when your deck is in it for the long haul and doesn't have big sweepers and limited spot removal, being able to contest the board if you don't ramp is pretty important. Plus, in the late game it's another body for Savage Roar. The five hp heal isn't a big deal when you plan on bashing your opponent's face in with an Ancient of War or an Emerald Drake.
Unless explicitly stated, my posts are my opinion and mine only.
This statement seems to indicate that you haven't actually been reading anything I've posted. I already know why Zombie Chow is a good card. I run one. I'm looking for an argument for why I should run two. Nobody has been able to offer anything like that except for increasingly exaggerated claims that Zombie Chow is some kind of panacea.
Your argument was that failing to play a Chow on turn 1 led to some kind of horrible outcome that I should be afraid of. My rebuttal was that your scenario is actually the majority of games. My deck is already built for the scenario where I don't get Chow because most of the time you don't get chow, even if you have two.
Keep calm and use your hero power
I hear you, as what many people here fail to mention is that mid-range paladin also really lacks draw - so pulling that 2nd zombie chow in the mid/late game can really hurt. I took a mid-pala deck to rank 4 a couple of seasons back and ran just the one, and preferred it that way.
I think you're seriously underestimating the card's ability to trade up and survive, vs Hunter it's pretty important to be able to both kill the Mad Scientist and activate the trap with the same card. The heal doesn't really matter, either the first Zombie Chow trades and the heal is irrelevant or your win condition in Paladin, Priest, Warlock etc. is to control the board and out last your opponent instead of race him. Games are won and lost well before life total's reach zero.
I only run one or none as well...
Late game it's a pretty bad pull. And many times I play against it, I am happy to see it and it helps me stall to get an answer.
It shines on turn one or two I suppose.
I'm no pro either, I do the rank 5 rush every month. I do play alotta Paladin tho, and I am fine without chow. If I go second, many times I can drop a MiniBot onto an empty board... I also run Shielded mini bot and haunter creeper cause they are real sticky for the first few turns and help smooth me into the mid game. If I draw them late they are not that bad either since annoy-a-tron usually buys me a turn like belcher and haunted usually gets some kind of value (and both can be buffed)
Nightblade Argent Lance Flame Imp
Argent Watchman Argent Squire Frost Giant
Aviana Hogger Snipe Sea Giant
i refused to play double chow in mid-range paladin then realized paladin's 4 drop slot looks like a Public transport had to remove one 4 drop and add zombie chow and so far it's been more consistent.
If you judge a card's power based on it's topdeck potential, you're throwing out a lot of cards. Topdecking an equality or a blessing of kings with nothing on board is a dead draw, too, but that's not a reason to avoid putting either in your deck.
Keep calm and use your hero power
The thread title is perfectly on point. No arguments are going to convince OP to run 2 chows.
/thread
Good points on probabilities, and with Midrange Paladins style of play +5 or a maximum of +10 (which is very unlikely considering that first chow dies before the opponent has even taken 5 points of damage) is worth it.
Even late game, if you have a good board and drop a chow that can finish off a threatening minion to keep one of your fatties alive is a net gain in damage usually.
Casual HS player - Achieved Legend in November 2015 and August 2016
Good points on probabilities, and with Midrange Paladins style of play +5 or a maximum of +10 (which is very unlikely considering that first chow dies before the opponent has even taken 5 points of damage) is worth it.
Even late game, if you have a good board and drop a chow that can finish off a threatening minion to keep one of your fatties alive is a net gain in damage usually.
Casual HS player - Achieved Legend in November 2015 and August 2016
Keep calm and use your hero power
You can use equality early as a board clear, but in most cases (except vs druid innervating out something like Dr. Boom or Fel Reaver early and maybe.. maaaaaaaybe.. dragon priest) anything your opponent plays early is easy enough to deal with without having to burn an equality. Chow just gives you that body to be able to do it so you can save equality for later. But play it however you want, 1 chow is fine too and isn't the end of the world :P
Casual HS player - Achieved Legend in November 2015 and August 2016
I'm not trying to be obtuse. How does zombie chow deal with Dr Boom, Fel Reaver, or any of the degenerate early high health plays of either Warlock or Priest? It does 2 damage? Equality is obviously better in these common scenarios and you don't need to save it for later if you have two.
Keep calm and use your hero power
My favourite class is Priest and I've never had a deck that didn't include 2 Zombie Chow. I always cheer when I manage to mulligan one or two if I'm lucky. Early pressure, I can heal 'em or slap a Power Word: Shield on them. Turn 4 (or 3 with a coin) it's time for Auchenai Soulpriest. And then I suicide the zombies into the enemy's minions. They die, the enemy player is wringing his hands in anticipation and BAM. 5-10 face damage instead of 5-10 health. What have you done to me?
If there are no minions to suicide into, a no mana cost Circle of Healing also does the trick. Kills unbuffed zombies, kills most everything else but keeps the soulpriest up.
For control decks you absolutely want Zombie chow in your opening hand, even if it means to draw him later. Especially on Priest where he is useful even on turn 10 with auchenai or with paladin where it matters to have board control, not enemys life. Especially when you have Justicar Trueheart and your Hero-Power becomes absolutely nuts. Even in control i play him when i have spare mana, heck even if he gets killed, he needed to trade.