Hearthpwn

Needs to be more neutral anti-secret cards is all. Kezan Mystic was a good start and I was disappointed TGT didn't have another one.

Quote from Vaelleth >>

Except he doesn't improve your draw quality.  As I stated in my last comment, after you play Mysterious Challenger, you really only have 3 cards designed for the late game in Dr. Boom and Tirion Fordring, plus the 2nd Mysterious Challenger that more than likely won't have nearly as much impact as the first one (and the first one may not have much impact if you're drawing secrets the first few turns).  Aside from that, you have a bunch of cards that are designed to control tempo pre-6 (and do a VERY good job of it), but lose a lot of their power as the game goes on.

 

Thinning your deck is always a good thing. He increases the chance of you having significant draws after you dropped him. He offers value after value without any real weakness. Its fairly easy to limit/minimize your opponnents board presence till turn 6. Pally's have very powerful early drops, Minibot, Mustard, Truesilver + the powerful neutrals. When you drop MC on an empty board its going to be almost impossible for your opponent to catch up. As of now SP dominates ladder because they have very few unfavorable matchups.

Guys it is too early for nerfs on MC.  He is the must craft, buy TGT packs for him, card.  Only when the next expansion is released will he see a nerf.  

His effect and how he works is all fine, I think his stats are too good for a 6 drop though.  5/5 and call it day.  Having one less health than Boulderfist Ogre who is the gold standard as far as stat value goes is pretty ridiculous when coupled with drawing and playing on battlecry (so no way to stop it from happening) up to 6 secrets.  

One thing I realize about the nerfs to "op" cards and combos are that the nerfs are not cause the card/combination is insanely good or it defines the decks. 

The the cards and combination were nerf cause it made the deck too strong with few/ little counters to the deck, therefore resulting in hearthstone ladder meta being restricted to just a few decks. 

This can be seen from the nerf to starving buzzard combo, death rattle undertaker. They were nerf cause they made the meta too restricted in both ladder and tournament format. You either played hard counter deck to the deck or u played the deck itself. Defining the entire meta to just 3-4 feasible decks. 

The value MC challenger provides is undeniably good, and yes it make the entire secret pally deck archetype feasible. Whether it is nerf or not will boil down to blizzard decisions and their data on ladder/tournament scene. 

If if secret pally makes up 60-80% of the current ladder decks played, and even with introduction of the next expansion it doesn't change, then the pally secret deck/cards will be re tweak to make the meta more balance. 

It is not how imbalance or broken one card is as seen by dr boom which gives u enormous value for playing it. But it is how deck affects the meta and whether it is healthy for the game in the long run. Blizzard goal is not to decide whether the card is broken therefore needs to nerf but to ensure the meta and diversity of the game for the popularity of hearthstone to continue accordingly to their gaming philosophy .

so if high likelihood by the next expansion and secret pally makes up and defines the game meta with no changes, there will be high chance the card/deck will be changed to allow for more diversity, regardless whether it defines the archetype and feasibility of the deck. As seen by nerf of undertaker, go deathrattle deck and the nerf in warsong, there goes patron. 

Mysterious challenger definitely fits the bill of "limiting future design choices" so yes, it should be "nerfed to oblivion", if past Blizzard choices was to be quoted upon.

Secret keeper also fits the undertaker description with its +1/+1 shenanigans. I wouldn't be surprised if this card was tweaked to +1 atk only.

One thing MC has going for him is how is to play against him. Better players will save the right removal, attack in the right order and fight hard to have a board before he comes down. The 5-secret puzzles CAN be interresting to solve optimally.

Normal midtange paladin seems at least as popular ATM. Maybe there is light in the end of the tunnel?

That's how I wanted to answer him as well. Also, I agree that it's boring to play with it but I don't mind facing it and trying to counter it. That being said if Blizzard ever decides to balance (not nerf) the card, it wouldn't be so horrible for any party to make it a 4/5 body (much like Cabal) or at least 7-mana...

Quote from TachiiDerp >>

Mysterious challenger definitely fits the bill of "limiting future design choices" so yes, it should be "nerfed to oblivion", if past Blizzard choices was to be quoted upon.

Secret keeper also fits the undertaker description with its +1/+1 shenanigans. I wouldn't be surprised if this card was tweaked to +1 atk only.

It really doesn't. It affects the design of 1-mana secrets, which have a fairly obvious cap on what they can and can't do.

Quote from Vaelleth >>

Quote from TachiiDerp >>

Mysterious challenger definitely fits the bill of "limiting future design choices" so yes, it should be "nerfed to oblivion", if past Blizzard choices was to be quoted upon.

Secret keeper also fits the undertaker description with its +1/+1 shenanigans. I wouldn't be surprised if this card was tweaked to +1 atk only.

First and foremost. Mysterious Challenger only "limits future design choices" when it comes to Paladin secrets, as we have all said many times, ARE JUNK BY THEMSELVES.  When was the last time you saw someone beg Blizzard to release a new Paladin secret again?

As for Secretkeeper being like pre-nerf Undertaker?  Not even close.  Undertaker got +1/+1 when you played a deathrattle minion, which meant a) you still had board presence if Undertaker was killed, and b) that minion had an effect when it died.  While Secretkeeper gets +1/+1 any time ANY secret is played, most decks that run secrets don't lay them down one by one.  They use Mad Scientist or Mysterious Challenger, neither of which triggers Secretkeeper.

The only reason Secret Paladin even plays Secretkeeper (and the reason she's a one-of) is to try to make it less horrific if they're drawing nothing but secrets early.  Even if there were more classes that had secrets (there are currently 3) and that tried to play them one by one (none of the 3 that play secrets WANT to just lay them down), you would still have no board presence apart from her, so all it takes is one removal spell (and most classes have removal spells that can be played before she becomes any sort of threat).It

I obviously meant the secrets in terms of design space lol was editing the post last night and fell asleep

And I'm not sure why people are saying they're all crap. There's enough synergy with some of the secrets and minions that secret paladins had closed game before MC got in play.

Since secrets are only one mana, you can achieve board control as you lay down a 1-2 mana minion while laying down another secret.

+1/+1 buffs has a history of being nerfed so I'm hypothesizing Undertaker isn't the last to be seen.

I have been playing a midrange version of secret pally and my list run 2x noble sac, 2x avenge, 1x redemption, 1x competative spirit, 1x repentance. The true downside to MC is that the second MC will generally pull out 0-2 secrets, which isnt very powerful. Many secret paladin decks now are running less secrets, just enough to get value out of you MC. Its almost as if its a legendary, because in most cases, only the first one has value.

I think Midrange Hunter is not that favorable. I find Face performs a bit better on matchup but I really don't like the playstyle. It depends on the draw I guess. If Secret Pally drops Minibot on turn 2 or turn 1 with coin Midrange Hunters have a very tough time. It's a huge tempo gain because Minibot will beat almost all of your early drops. Also there are mean early pressure that are hard to stop like Juggler-Muster, Competitive Spirit/Avenge - Muster.  Even if you stop Muster using UTH you're still on the short end of the trade, your opponent still have Lights Justice and the Inititative for the following turn. Once SP gets the inititative its very hard to catch up even with Flare. It's not that impactful(compared to vs Mage or Hunters) because vs SP it will leave you 2 mana less than your normal curve. Getting rid of secrets is nice but you're still facing 6/6 minion on board. If SP controls the early game tempo, dropping MC on turn 6 seals the deal. IMO MC is a very powerful card and is made OP because of Pally's access to very strong value cards early on. His statline is just to solid for what he does. The only weakness of the deck is your draw can get screwed because of the sub par cards like secrets but that can be mitigated by muligan and draw from divine favor.

Have not tested it because I still don't have the components to make Dragon Priest, Handlocks and Freeze Mages I think they are the decks that fairs well vs SP.

Quote from crazyferrari >>

I have been playing a midrange version of secret pally and my list run 2x noble sac, 2x avenge, 1x redemption, 1x competative spirit, 1x repentance. The true downside to MC is that the second MC will generally pull out 0-2 secrets, which isnt very powerful. Many secret paladin decks now are running less secrets, just enough to get value out of you MC. Its almost as if its a legendary, because in most cases, only the first one has value.

Yeah but it is a 6/6 which is a great statline anyway, so 6/6 pull and play 2 secrets is still better value than any other 6 drop.  At worse you get a plain 6/6, no secrets.  So what.  Once you play your MC, you are going to play Boom and Tirion anyway over the 2nd MC.  

When the tavern brawl in which you drew cards based on your mana curve was out I had 100% win rate with a variation of secret paladin!  100%!   I played a shitload, and never lost one game!

Paladins basically have the best cards to play on every turn!  Aside from one game they weren't even close, and he only had a chance because I went from an overwhelmingly dominant position to getting a Doomsayer from my piloted shredder.

Quote from Mysticjbyrd >>

When the tavern brawl in which you drew cards based on your mana curve was out I had 100% win rate with a variation of secret paladin!  100%!   I played a shitload, and never lost one game!

Paladins basically have the best cards to play on every turn!  Aside from one game they weren't even close, and he only had a chance because I went from an overwhelmingly dominant position to getting a Doomsayer from my piloted shredder.

This.

Quote from Vaelleth >>

Quote from Mysticjbyrd >>

When the tavern brawl in which you drew cards based on your mana curve was out I had 100% win rate with a variation of secret paladin!  100%!   I played a shitload, and never lost one game!

Paladins basically have the best cards to play on every turn!  Aside from one game they weren't even close, and he only had a chance because I went from an overwhelmingly dominant position to getting a Doomsayer from my piloted shredder.

That Tavern Brawl also INSURED that you drew a card to play on curve EVERY turn, which meant you NEVER drew a secret after turn 1 until MAYBE turn 9 (unless you happened to have one of the cards on a specific turn of the curve draw in your hand, such as Loatheb).

How many Secret Paladins actually get the perfect curve draw every single game like you did in that Tavern Brawl?

From my experience, most of them