Hearthpwn

Quote from fdaojsdaio jump

OH LOOK ANOTHER BAD ROGUE EPIC EleGiggle EleGiggle EleGiggle EleGiggle EleGiggle EleGiggle EleGiggle

OH LOOK ANOTHER PLAYER TO FACEPALM AT!

Quote from dplWILDY jump

Why does rogue auto lose to other control decks? She's got some of the more potent, and numerous, removal tools. Plus she has cards to present slow reliable damage - The new legendary, THIS, headcrack etc...

The new legendary is 100% useless vs aggro/tempo which means that it will never be used, rogue is bad enough against aggro already. Headcrack is garbage, and this is decent but what would you cut for it?

This cards is fake. Ha an epic rouge card that is not completely unplayable. Riiiiight....

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This is actually pretty bloody good in a Control Rogue or Mill Rogue. Utter value, just needs to be run in decks that either a) last a long time or b) force the opponent to mill.

Last a long time? Seriously?

What's the problem? Decks that go to the late-game is what I mean, control decks, basically.

I know what you mean, but this doesn't concern rogue. Rogue can't last long enough against aggro decks to bring game to a late game, and is on a losing side against other control based decks. I know people were trying to create good control rogue deck, but it never was viable enough to play competitive, high ladder games.

Very true right now, perhaps, but there's been some alright cards this expansion (okay, 2) and whilst Control Rogue definitely isn't viable right now, I think it will be eventually. I don't really like judging cards as bad just because they don't work right now, because it's not the card that's the problem.

I feel this will only be played in mill since that will be the only reliable way to get them out. Even then, you already have cards like Gang Up which don't give you immediate effect. Too many cards like that and you'll just get swarmed.

For this card to show it's potential game should be LONG. This means mill rogue or control rogue. Bad for mill - you increase the size of opponent deck to 33 cards. Bad for control - rogue have no tools to survive such long game.

Quote from MewYawn jump

How exactly do you see this as being playable in mill rogue decks? You play 2 Beneath the grounds and your opponent has 6 more cards in his deck, which means that you have to play your 2 gang ups just so you have equal cards and don't fall in fatigue before your opponent. Beneath the Grounds negates your + 6 cards advantage from Gang up. The fact that you are putting more cards in your opponents deck, doesn't mean that you can make him draw more cards than before.

I could see this card being played in a control deck with Coldlight Oracles, without it being a full blown mill rogue.

The ambushes you put in your opponent's deck don't deny draws. Denying a draw is a completely broken mechanic.

Quote from dplWILDY jump

Quote from DoctorDen_ jump

For this card to show it's potential game should be LONG. This means mill rogue or control rogue. Bad for mill - you increase the size of opponent deck to 33 cards. Bad for control - rogue have no tools to survive such long game.

Excluding Backstab, Eviscerate, Blade Flurry, Betrayal, Sap, Fan of Knives, Assassinate, Sabotage, Vanish, S:17, Dark Iron Skulker, you mean?

Yes. For now there was no Control Rogue. This card would not change this, sorry

Assuming it works like Iron Juggernaught and thus doesn't actually add cards to the enemy deck; this card is a massive tool for Mill Rouge.

Quote from DoctorDen_ jump

Bad for mill - you increase the size of opponent deck to 33 cards.

No you don't.

Quote from dplWILDY jump

Quote from DoctorDen_ jump

Quote from dplWILDY jump

Quote from DoctorDen_ jump

For this card to show it's potential game should be LONG. This means mill rogue or control rogue. Bad for mill - you increase the size of opponent deck to 33 cards. Bad for control - rogue have no tools to survive such long game.

Excluding Backstab, Eviscerate, Blade Flurry, Betrayal, Sap, Fan of Knives, Assassinate, Sabotage, Vanish, S:17, Dark Iron Skulker, you mean?

Yes. For now there was no Control Rogue. This card would not change this, sorry

You may not be aware, but this was not the only card Rogue got this expansion. Furthermore, they got a Legendary called Anub'arak and a minion called Shado-Pan Cavalry which push control, as well as the existence of currently unused cards that needed backup.

Anub'arak is bad for control. 9 mana infinite 4\4 generator is not that great

Quote from trialq jump

I'm assuming ambush is like burrowing mine in that it will read "summon a 4/4 Nerubian for your opponent, draw a card"; beneath the grounds would be broken if it denied the opponent 3 card draws (and would be played for that alone were that true).

It's blowing my mind how many people think this card might be playable if it denied the draws. It would be the most broken card in the game if it denied draws.

So when do you want to play this? Certainly not in the early game since it's a terrible tempo loss...

The longer you wait, the fewer cards there are in your opponent's decks so you are more likely to get a Nerubian BUT, it's closer to the end of the game as well, so there are very few turns left for you to get a shot at a nerubian. I suppose it works in a very slow meta? But even then if both players are playing Control style decks, are the 4/4s going to swing the game?

I agree with the other comments, it comes down to whether it denies the opponent a chance a drawing another card, in which case, it's basically auto-include. But I'm pretty sure it will read "Summon a 4/4 Nerubian for your opponent. Draw a card"

Quote from Marinakattack jump

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Bad for mill - you increase the size of opponent deck to 33 cards.

No you don't.

30 + 3 is?

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Bad for mill - you increase the size of opponent deck to 33 cards.

No you don't.

This. If it works like Iron Juggernaut (as others have mentioned) which it most likely will. And if it doesn't, you're stalling your opponents draw for a turn while you get a free 4/4? Not exactly the worst case scenario.

The only situation where this is bad is if your opponent is already out of cards, but then you're guaranteed three 4/4s.. so it could cause issues but I think the benefits are worth it.

Yeah, it won't increase their deck size because it won't deny their draws.  So it's still great for mill rogue.

One issue, though:  If you overdraw and burn this, it has no effect, right?  That's what I have heard about Burrowing Mines but haven't experienced it myself.

Quote from hojsimpson jump

What is AMBUSH?????

its the thing that summons the 4/4

Even if it did deny draw I would still run this in mill rogue since it would be a completely broken card.

Quote from DoctorDen_ jump

Quote from Marinakattack jump

Quote from DoctorDen_ jump

Bad for mill - you increase the size of opponent deck to 33 cards.

No you don't.

30 + 3 is?

We have 2 scenarios. Ambush from Beneath the Grounds draws a card or not. In the first scenario - it summons a nerubian, draw a card and expires like Mine from Iron Juggernaught. i.e. in fact it doesn't exist. In the second scenario it denies draw, so this card is kinda broken.

I can see it now: Opponent draws Ambush followed by "Thank you," spam.